I think the whole question itself was addressed as the smithing gloves (From what I remember watching the stream last night). So safe to say they're not gonna give it any better stats. Max-melded gloves still gonna be on top, but oh well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amnesia
TGS Live Letter Discussion
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09-22-2014, 12:34 AMParodine
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09-22-2014, 01:44 AMOmegakiyohimeWe'll see. I honestly doubt that they are going to make players get to level 50 and clear 2.2 for Ninja since it's class Rogue is unlocked at level 10. They'll figure out some way around it like they did in 2.38 when they just added an entire building into Limsa out of nowhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alberel
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09-22-2014, 02:26 AMsilentwindfr
seriously if they break them own lore only for care for lazy player (sorry but how you want i call them) i will be really disappointed. it will be like say to us... ok you can follow the lore until we decide to retcon it later... because it more easy for the one that don't want to invest a bit of time in the game.
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09-22-2014, 02:32 AMD-Gold
isn't there already a NIN type organization in Limsa? The one thancred was apart of.
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09-22-2014, 02:44 AMsilentwindfr
it's a group of thief, not ninja, exept the one from ST (that was sealed for many thousand years), from what they have said us so far only the dhoman have this knowledge now.
believe me i'm disappointed of how they decided to do it. it will have been far better to included it into the story quest. some people think that the gameplay>lore. when the gameplay = lore, the lore definite what it's possible and not possible. it's like add the capacity to our character to fly, because it fun and cool... but into the lore our race don't have wing and can't fly. that the same point, indeed the rogue guild was already present, i recognize this point, but they was hidding and i feel that simply ask people to go around the city for find the guild is silly and lazy. i will have been ok if it will have implied a quest that will recquire you to explore more for find the clue about the guild.
anyway, we still need to see how they do it... so far i'm not happy with them way to treat them own creation simply for please the people that want everything right now. do they plan to do the same with every class? i dunno but i think they need to stop to let the player decide the limit of them game. indeed some stuff must be done for please player. but on this point they have really choose the worst solution possible since it will create more trouble in terms of lore.
just a reminder: this famous Rogue Guild is living in hiding (they are a secret guild after all) and suddenly having one of them member become one of the most famous warrior of eorzea, at the same time exposing them existence while trying to hide it's something weird!
ps: be present and be know are two different thing, for please player they will need to change a lot of cutscene for explain the difference. creating a new branch of cutscene with different reaction because of this choice, when it was easier to simply add it like a discovery passed 2.2 quest line. the complain of some that it will recquire time for unlock a class are stupid and show only how much they care for the game and the lore tie to it. but well... -
09-22-2014, 02:55 AMmyahele
Its odd that ROG isn't a starting class, I guess they couldn't somehow reprogram it in the character creation/opening cutscene.
Well, when in comes to lore then the only solution I can think of is another doman refugee NIN will be the guildmaster. Maybe this NIN was living in isolation for years untill they were discovered? For those who completed then maybe Yugiri may make a cutscene. -
09-22-2014, 02:55 AMOmegakiyohimeNew Players can craft and wield Mog Weapons before King Mog is summoned. Doman Plums, Tatami mats, and Doman hearths can be used to adorn your house or feed your chocobo before you even learn what Doma is. The same goes for Mor Dhona, a place that is being renovated by Doman refugees. The World lore of Eorzea is always at where the patch is. The world continues to change and there is no way, new players are going to be sheltered from that. In fact, I'm surprised that they haven't written the main story quests off as quest that take place due to the echo, because no matter where you are in the story. The world still acts as if it is 2.XX.Quote:
Originally Posted by silentwindfr
Heck, even the ability to fight in Frontlines without completing up to 2.3 can be considered lore-breaking. -
09-22-2014, 02:58 AMCutie_McSnugglesThat building has always been there. We just couldn't get to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Omegakiyohime
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09-22-2014, 03:06 AMNalienTechnically he was summoned in 1.x.Quote:
Originally Posted by Omegakiyohime
Is that unusual? They're just imports, not things that require Domans to have migrated.Quote:
Originally Posted by Omegakiyohime
This isn't actually the case though, Revanant's Toll was being built up before 2.2. After 2.2 the rate increased thanks to Doman refugees, but if you haven't actually done 2.2, none of those refugees are around. Until they cave in an rename the place "New Doma" I don't really see it as lore breaking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Omegakiyohime
Why? All the story quests from 2.3 did was explain some lore behind Frontlines; people are fully capable of fighting in a conflict they have no understanding of. You actually get the reason you're fighting in Frontlines explained in the quest for it anyway, all the 2.3 main scenario quests did was explain the secret truth behind it all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Omegakiyohime
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09-22-2014, 03:10 AMLitheraItems from other places aren't lore breaking...they're imports. Ulbuka and Aht Urghan were introduced in quest dialog and some items before their expansions ever showed up in XI. Your assumption is false because when you start the game it's always 5 years after the Calamity. The Domans don't appear in Mor Dhona until you reach that point in the story. The only reason REv's Toll always appears the same to everyone is more a technical issue (New Players would appear clipped through buildings if they were moving around the old Revs Toll). Frontlines has been occurring the entire time and actually only gets a brief mention in the Main Story.Quote:
Originally Posted by Omegakiyohime
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09-22-2014, 03:16 AMlololinkIf they want to have a guild in each city they can't have a rogue as starter as it will have 3 possible start places, there is also the NPC from the adventurer guild that will point you to that guild, making it less secret then.Quote:
Originally Posted by myahele
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09-22-2014, 03:16 AMOmegakiyohimeItems from other places that are under Imperial Occupation at the time the Empire is trying to subjugated you are though. Do you really think that Doma under Garlean occupation would be allowed to trade with Eorzea while Gaius is trying to take over it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lithera
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09-22-2014, 03:19 AMJakzChurchillBut the Frontlines battles weren't thought up until 2.3, if you take part before that you are involved in a battle that lore wise should not be taking place.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalien
This is an issue MMO's have to contend with, as the world will always evolve at a different pace to a lot of the playerbase, liberties have to be taken with a lot of content, especially when it comes to open world. -
09-22-2014, 03:41 AMNalienThere are these people called smugglers... Heck, cultural items or crops could even have been imported before Imperial Occupation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Omegakiyohime
The main scenario quests for 2.3 describe the Flats as a battlefield; the only battles to occur there are the Frontlines battles, ergo Frontlines has been going on before 2.3 lorewise, we only just got access to it in the 2.3 update. There is nothing in the 2.3 main scenario quests that starts up Frontlines, as it were. We just happened to get access to Frontlines in the same update where the main scenario starts mentioning it, as far as lore goes it's been going on from before whenever you picked up the quest at your Grand Company HQ, and that can be at pretty much any point post-50, you're pretty much just recruited into an already occurring battle when you accept that quest. No where in 2.3 does Frontlines get announced as a new thing which the Companies just started; it's always been going on in the background as far as lore is concerned.Quote:
Originally Posted by JakzChurchill
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09-22-2014, 03:55 AMmyaheleThere's some low level limsa lominsa quest that tells you some actively raid Garlean suppy lines. One was able to procure Garlean fire sand and other produces from Garlean-controled Othard. In other words these items are most likely being smuggled. The fact that they're only sold by GC than vendors show how rare it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Omegakiyohime
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09-22-2014, 04:38 AMOmegakiyohimeSo wait, people could have brought in items/had knowledge of Doma before the occupation or 2.2? What's stopping them from having brought in cultural garb or that mystical job stone that teaches us the art of the ninja? What stopping these smugglers from bring scrolls that teach techniques. If items could have been stolen out of Doma and brought to Eorzea before 2.2 occurred, then what is stopping you from looking over the scrolls with some eorzean scholar that got his hands on them and the job stone. Yes, Yugiri is going to teach it/bring it to the Rogue's Guild, but if we are establishing that sufficient knowledge of Doma to establish trade predated 2.2 then surely knowledge of the Nins of Doma must predate it as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalien
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09-22-2014, 04:42 AMWavytiger
dungeons, coil, primal and add in a DoW, I knew this was all the patch was going to have, but still underwhelmed and bored. xpac type stuff will hopefully bring an entirely new thing to look forward to instead of rinse repeat every 3 months.
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09-22-2014, 04:43 AMNalienNothing is, except the fact that that isn't the way SE wants to write it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Omegakiyohime
They want the refugees from Doma to teach us their skills. No where, however, do they suggest that the same refugees are the sole source of people bringing Doman Plums to the Grand Companies.
Also, knowledge of Ninjas? Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it said to be a secret art? Just because traders/smugglers/whatever can have had contact with Doma, doesn't mean they'd have an intimate understanding of the place; certainly not of a secret stealth force, and certainly not enough to teach us about it second hand. -
09-22-2014, 04:53 AMOmegakiyohimeWe don't know how SE wants to write it, because they haven't written yet. If 2.4 comes out and new players are taught out to be ninjas because of Yugiri. Yes, that is a major paradox and would be retconning. If they want to write a story of how you, a rogue, stole some mystical stone/scrolls from a boat that turns out to be from Doma, they could.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalien
And as you said, Ninja's are a secret stealth force, having hidden sects in major capitals wouldn't be that strange of a thing and having them reach out, in secret, to a talented Rogue wouldn't be that crazy. If the existence of Doma predates 2.2, then they certainly have the room to do so. -
09-22-2014, 05:02 AMNalien
They specifically said they want Yugiri to teach us to be Ninjas. So either they make 2.2 a requirement, since that's the only way for Yugiri to actually be here, they create a paradox through poor writing/planning, or they once again go back on what they've previously said.
I really don't see a problem with them locking the Job behind 2.2, if people have a problem with this now, they're going to throw a fit when it turns out they actually have to purchase the expansion to unlock its new Jobs. They'll probably cry "Pay 2 Win!" since you cannot play Red Mage without purchasing an expansion... -
09-22-2014, 05:25 AMUrielparadox
Saying you can't learn ninja because of storyline Is like saying all new player get to see mor dhona progress. They don't certain things in earzea are constantly changing. According to lore with Rev toll where it's at yugiri and her people are easy made present, with the explanation of how they got there in the storyline. Rogue, as than cred shows us. Already exist in the game, ano he picks up ninja super fast, so rwally they just need a than rid type nic to travel to yugioh land and traon, then return. Yugioh doesn't even have to be part of ninjas story.
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09-22-2014, 06:55 AMAlberelThe expansion of Rev Toll has absolutely NOTHING to do with the story though. The town was expanding before the Scions moved there and it will make no difference to the story if a new player first sees it complete or not as the events there do not have any dependency on the state of the outpost. The expansion is really just a visual thing for players to look at. It would have made no difference if it was in its finished state when they released 2.0.Quote:
Originally Posted by Urielparadox
It's already been pointed out countless times now that Yugiri is the FIRST Ninja in Eorzea. Yourself and others keep trying to claim another Ninja could have come before but they clearly didn't else Yugiri would have had no reason to offer her training. -
09-22-2014, 07:13 AMmyahele
Hopefully Yugiri will have a small role in the 2.4 storyline, especially since we can unlock ninjas.
even if she may not be our Ninja quest giver, perhaps she could be for the next expansion once lv cap is increased? -
09-22-2014, 07:32 AMsilentwindfryou just point the trouble, a lot of people simply don't care about the lore, i can understand this point, they only want to do dungeon, raid or frontline... it's them right. however, the game is driven by the lore, and i don't see SE pull a deus ex machina for please them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alberel
what bother me more than anything about them reaction is the fact, that the famous new player... need to do this questline for get acces to the primal fight and such. -
09-22-2014, 09:42 AMZReportConsidering there's gonna be a new tomestone, I'd say i130 with Coil3 weapons at i135. Whatever will come out of Coil3 will likely be i130 as well but BiS. Much like Coil2, Coil3/New Allagan Tomes should be completely invalidating the previous gearsets across the board. Likewise, dungeon drops will more than likely be i90 & i100 and there will be i110 craftables. Shiva EX drops will probably be i120 or i125 as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaiken
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09-23-2014, 12:42 PMAnatha
They said there are ninja guild hideouts all over Eorzea. Yugiri is not the only ninja.
She's not likely even going to be involved. It was just a teaser trailed tied into the storyline.
Stop being absurd. If you had to be LVL 50, to be a ninja, they'd not let you be a ROGUE until you hit 50 once as well. USE YOUR HEADS. YOU ARE NOT USING YOUR HEADS.
Same as the people thinking they'll change the way stats work. They have literally said, "we're not going to change stats" "Ninjas are not ranged damage dealers, keep your MELEE DPS GEAR".
And yet we still have people who are so absurdly twisted they think we'll have Ninjas running around in Amon gear. Ok buddy. Way to use your brain. -
09-23-2014, 01:24 PMZReportYou have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, lol. It's not worth trying to arrange how many bad statements you've just said, so instead you can go read one of my replies to other people at your leisure instead. It answers most of what you're talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anatha
Or maybe not. -
09-23-2014, 01:27 PMsilentwindfr
i think Anatha, that they have decide to please the lazy player, that why the rogue can be unlocked to level 10 and probably ninja directly to level 30, i'm kinda sure if we check the cutscene of the 2.2... some discution will have been changed... it found it dangerous to simply please lazy player that simply don't want to advance in the story.
the starting class are already know, make the rogue be level 10 is a huge joke.. indeed if you don't look around nothing will point you, there is the rogue guild, but with internet it will not stay hidden for long. it's funny in a sense, since it a way to say, if you do the 2.2 questline you will know where it is... if don't want to wait, you can find the guild by yourself, you only need level 10.
do they will do the same with the new class/jobs added with the expansion? or with the futur add of the class and jobs in the futur?
i will say one last thing, the game truely begin when you have 1 class 50, before this, you have tons of content locked for you... make some class be locked like the rest don't seems that stupid, it can be about class recquiring more skill or knowledge about the mechanic of the game. i'm sad that they have decide to simply ignore what they have done with the 2.2 for appeal to some player... the game don't need this for get more player, they need to stop take wrong decision about content, like hunt and personal housing.
ps: in the CS of the 2.2 Yugiri clearly say that she will be the one teaching her art to the adventurer... then saying now: no it's another npc that do it... it's...
well i guess player that here since long have less right that the new player that will join later. since they change the story we did go throught for please new player *shrugs* for me it's only a huge disappointement about how they treat the lore of the game.