Tanks are so mainstream. (Ramuh extreme done without tanks)

Welcome to Final Fantasy, where your job will be rendered obsolete in an instant because another job was made OP in an unanticipated way. I think it's a great strat, don't get me wrong, but gosh it reminds me of the CoP days when folks literally wouldn't even TRY unless you had two war/nin and at least 1 summoner.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Souljacker

Welcome to Final Fantasy, where your job will be rendered obsolete in an instant because another job was made OP in an unanticipated way. I think it's a great strat, don't get me wrong, but gosh it reminds me of the CoP days when folks literally wouldn't even TRY unless you had two war/nin and at least 1 summoner.

---

That's actually every mmorpg ever.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Souljacker

Welcome to Final Fantasy, where your job will be rendered obsolete in an instant because another job was made OP in an unanticipated way. I think it's a great strat, don't get me wrong, but gosh it reminds me of the CoP days when folks literally wouldn't even TRY unless you had two war/nin and at least 1 summoner.

---

This happened in WoW too - Every MMORPG actually lol. CoP days were fun since the groups who cleared it without going the path of least resistance were praised for actually taking a challenge head on lol, Ouryu and One to be Feared for example.

I hope people will take this to next level.

EOS TANKING

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tupsi

This happened in WoW too - Every MMORPG actually lol. CoP days were fun since the groups who cleared it without going the path of least resistance were praised for actually taking a challenge head on lol, Ouryu and One to be Feared for example.

---

The only time where it happened in WoW was vanilla going into the end of TBC. TBC was notorious for it since that's where the term "sunwelled" comes from (mages were sat out for the last raid of the expansion in favor of warlocks and shadow priests). It was nowhere near as rampant as it was in FFXI.

With all the tank hate going around these last few month I've started thinking I should play as my drg more. Haven't touched it since 1.0 yet it still has almost i90 gear and I'm sure all you tank hating SoB's don't mind carrying a helpless ex-tank turned drg as he tries to learn his basic combos in you're leet endgame groups. /cheers!

I myself in FFXI was able to play SMN and use my pets to tank a great many NM's. SE never ever once thought it was not working as intended or felt the need to nerf or they would have done so then. Now in ffxiv using smn to tank various situations why do we need to call out nerf needed when it was allowed and clearly supported by the community at large in FFXI. There were even guides written to help show smn's how to use pets to tank. Why now with this? Do you guys really think a nerf is needed? This is clearly not exploit of any kind just a good use of the legal tools SE has given us. I cannot support nerfing at this time. If we must here than why was smn allowed to thrive so well in ffxi and must die here in a pit of nerfs?

Being able to do things like this, find viable alternate strategies, is awesome. We need more of that and less rinse & repeat of the programmed encounter.

I did this with my FC and it was a lot of fun. My Titan-Egi got to be useful! :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WHS

I myself in FFXI was able to play SMN and use my pets to tank a great many NM's. SE never ever once thought it was not working as intended or felt the need to nerf or they would have done so then. Now in ffxiv using smn to tank various situations why do we need to call out nerf needed when it was allowed and clearly supported by the community at large in FFXI. There were even guides written to help show smn's how to use pets to tank. Why now with this? Do you guys really think a nerf is needed? This is clearly not exploit of any kind just a good use of the legal tools SE has given us. I cannot support nerfing at this time. If we must here than why was smn allowed to thrive so well in ffxi and must die here in a pit of nerfs?

---

Because FFXIV is a game where the developers don't want you to think.

Noticed how there is almost zero customization in the game?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Narissa

It was an awesome way to get our first kill and we wanted it to be special so we thought a little (or completely? xD) outside of the box and this is what we came up with.

There is nothing wrong with trying new things and being creative, SE seems to always promote creativity so I don't think any harm will come to us about this Pantz, but thanks for your concern.

The setup doesn't need to be 5 bards btw for anyone wondering, we just went 5 bards cause it was funny and that's the only ranged alts they had with some gear.

---

To be honest it's more like the cheesy way to do it and it's far from fun, it's more close to t2 0 click. And if you guys got your first kill like this and ended up coming up with this idea it's probably because you guys were struggling doing it the normal way.
It makes the fight way more easy than it already is.

Oh and the tanks are going to hate you guys xD They better have a good secondary, it would be funny to see all tanks leveling summ just for this :D

But i'm pretty sure they wont do anything about it and this will become what everyone does on pf like it was almost impossible to find people doing t2 non 0 click.


This shows how bad is the test team from SE because almost every boss ends up having a broken way to do it avoiding some mechanics like t6 LoS, Ifrit EX LoS, t8 solo tanking, t6 dps burning p3 and the list goes on.

Thank god, earth types beat electric types. I'm glad S-E kept good attention to detail; I was starting to become worried they weren't respecting the deep lore of the Pokemon world.

I have beat the fight the legit way and then beat it with titan tanking last night when people found out about it. As someone who has beat it both ways I can tell you it is so much easier the titan tank way. Because you can bring 2 extra dps which makes the adds and dps check part of the fight a joke. You can pick up all the orbs not have to worry about saving them for the tanks until P2 hits and you just save 3 for chained people.

Unless SE nerfs the titan tank way I don't see anyone bringing actual tanks to this fight again. SE probably won't nerf it because they never nerfed T2 enrage and this strat is somewhat similar in that you are using a alternative strat to take out a lot of the mechanics of the fight.

This exploit needs to be fixed as soon as possible.

It's funny - People said they didn't want enemies having elemental resistances because it would make "BLM the go to class" for example, now you have an encounter where people will completely exclude tanks and "go to" SMN tanking. Funny how that works sometimes.

I just tried this with my group and I want to say that having titan doesn't magically make you clear the fight.
People in my group still overlapping lightning circles, not getting the orbs, dying to eletric shocks etc.
So no, there's still plenty of mechanics in the fight without 2 tanks and all it helped us do was clear the ad phase which was really difficult to do when we had 2 tanks instead of 2 DPS.
Still haven't cleared it and still learning the fight but I have this feeling that unless youre like ilvl 99+ it's a real DPS check.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nakiamiie

Being able to do things like this, find viable alternate strategies, is awesome. We need more of that and less rinse & repeat of the programmed encounter.

---

THIS^
/10char

Just so I have an understanding(and everyone else as well), I been reading through this topic and I think there are only a few main topics that everyone keeps hitting on.

1.) With Titan-Egi used for the fight, it excludes the need for tanks(which from what I gathered even with T2 enrage, you still needed/wanted one tank at most).

2.) It ignores many of the mechanics of the fight.

3.) Some people consider it an exploit while others call it creative thinking.

I haven't done Ramuh EX yet(since my static group is now working on T6) but I have done the enrage method in T2, so I will try and chime in what I think about it.

Personally, I am on the side that it needs to be fixed. Does it make the fight easier? Sure. Do you ignore mechanics of the fight? Maybe. Is it more fun? Maybe....but I think what everyone is arguing on is the whole 'You are getting rid of two classes from the fight'.

I have tanked since WoW and since than, I have not had as much fun in MMO's unless I am tanking. I level up DPS classes only cause I am something of a completion person but I always found DPS to be boring. Could I heal? Sure, but that isn't as fun as tanking to me. The fact that as a tank I am being told(ahead of time) I cannot join cause they don't need tanks is very disheartening. I love FF reborn and a lot of the raids/primals, so it makes no sense that I have to play a role that I dislike just to experience the content.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gextiv

This exploit needs to be fixed as soon as possible.

---

Except that's not an exploit. What happened with White Mages and Titan HM was an exploit, this however is clever use of game mechanics.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ruinfeild

2.) It ignores many of the mechanics of the fight.

---

It does not ignore many. It only ignores ONE mechanic. The mechanic of having tanks swap while they grab orbs to avoid being 1 shot by Ramuh.
This is the ONLY mechanic it ignores.

You still have to:
1. Free people from the charm
2. Make sure you don't overlap lightning circles with the ground AOEs or other people
3. Make sure everyone grabs lightning orbs so his AOE doesn't 1 shot everyone
4. Make sure people grab orbs to break tether
5. Make sure while doing 1, 2 and 3 people also kill all the ads before he enrages.
6. Make sure you don't get 1 shot by Ramuh's AOE while grabbing an orb that's near titan-egi
7. Make sure if you're melee you don't get 1 shot by the water shock AOE while killing ads.

So no this is not an exploit and it doesn't ignore many mechanics.
Before everyone go crying exploit, please take a random party finder group and attempt to clear it without any voice programs and solely relying on the competence of your party members to do all the other 7 mechanics competently.

Maintenance soon, want to bet this won't be possible afterwards?

I don't understand why people call this an exploit. Who says there's only one way to tackle a fight? This just shows how clever and creative the community can be. These people need to be given a credit instead of blaming them for exploiting.

If you aren't having to deal with a specific mechanic that doesn't effect a tanking egi, it's broken. If the egi doesn't have to do what other tanks do, it's broken. I don't see how people don't realize that.

Just thought I should share this thing I found in another forum.
http://forums.riftgame.com/attachmen...onexploits.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pantz

Just thought I should share this thing I found in another forum.
http://forums.riftgame.com/attachmen...onexploits.jpg

---

Rift, that game where people were banned for doing something slightly outside of the dev planned method? If that's your mindset then anything that doesn't follow a dev predetermined sequence to the letter is an exploit. In my opinion it's also an uncreative and boring way to go through life.

i've played a couple other MMOs where the devs didn't provide a checklist and schedule that you had to follow exactly in order to clear raids or dungeons. In fact the devs didn't even tell the players how to clear most hard/raid content at all; they just presented the challenge and let the players work out their own strategies to beat it and later expressed surprise that the winning method wasn't what they originally expected the players to do to beat it. (In fact the dev team themselves hadn't managed to beat some of the raids when they were in beta.) Instead of punishing players for coming up with a different technique than what they envisioned the devs complimented the players on their creativity. i guess what i'm trying to say is that i find it hard to share your viewpoint since i like games where not following a rote script precisely to the letter is allowed. "Thinking is evil! The devs have done all the thinking for you in advance! Obey the script!"

The fact that they issued an Emergency Maintenance for "All Worlds" leads me to believe the devs have noticed this little "trick" and are going to correct it.

Also, just for future reference for everyone
When you bypass an intended mechanic that was designed to be dealt with directly by the player, it's an exploit, not creative thinking.
Creative thinking/ come from finding unique/unconventional ways to actually deal with the intended mechanic and achieve the same outcome.

Finding an exploit does take some ingenuity though, but that doesn't make it right.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NyxNoughtNothing

Rift, that game where people were banned for doing something slightly outside of the dev planned method? If that's your mindset then anything that doesn't follow a dev predetermined sequence to the letter is an exploit. In my opinion it's also an uncreative and boring way to go through life.

i've played a couple other MMOs where the devs didn't provide a checklist and schedule that you had to follow exactly in order to clear raids or dungeons. In fact the devs didn't even tell the players how to clear most hard/raid content at all; they just presented the challenge and let the players work out their own strategies to beat it and later expressed surprise that the winning method wasn't what they originally expected the players to do to beat it. (In fact the dev team themselves hadn't managed to beat some of the raids when they were in beta.) Instead of punishing players for coming up with a different technique than what they envisioned the devs complimented the players on their creativity. i guess what i'm trying to say is that i find it hard to share your viewpoint since i like games where not following a rote script precisely to the letter is allowed. "Thinking is evil! The devs have done all the thinking for you in advance! Obey the script!"

---

I don't mind fights being done differently then intended, but definitely not to the point where an important role is played by scripting and a player wanting to play that role is totally useless.
By the way, Rift also had a lot of situations where fights were done outside of a devs expectations but were allowed. However, when that tactic makes an entire class redundant or totally ignores an important mechanic, then it wasn't allowed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Velox

The fact that they issued an Emergency Maintenance for "All Worlds" leads me to believe the devs have noticed this little "trick" and are going to correct it.

Also, just for future reference for everyone
When you bypass an intended mechanic that was designed to be dealt with directly by the player, it's an exploit, not creative thinking.
Creative thinking/ come from finding unique/unconventional ways to actually deal with the intended mechanic and achieve the same outcome.

Finding an exploit does take some ingenuity though, but that doesn't make it right.

---

I agree. There is a fine line between creative thinking and exploiting. T2 enrage was fine because it still required all roles to be played by a player. This isn't fine because an entire role is now totally redundant.

Oh really so u wanna labeled all fights requiring no tanks like 8 WHM setups to be an exploit ? I'm sure that offended u more considering it negated both tank and dps roles considering ur mindset is so WoW-ish with the traditional holy trinity setup.
Redundant? U do realize this no tank setup requires a level of coordination similar to ur static hence no tank loot dramas? just because a mainstream strategy is well known it DOESN"T MEAN any different setup strategies is labelled as exploit Using ur brain and creativity isn't an exploit duh!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Edenholt

We had two healer, WHM and SCH. Both doing a marvelous job.

---

Well...we only had two too. My point is getting the buff all the time is not really that necessary for the healers.

What dropped? Did Titan-egi get to roll doe?

Are we all so quick to forget the fiasco, and the prematurely deemed "exploit," that was coil turn 2?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Empressia

Oh really so u wanna labeled all fights requiring no tanks like 8 WHM setups to be an exploit ? I'm sure that offended u more considering it negated both tank and dps roles considering ur mindset is so WoW-ish with the traditional holy trinity setup.
Redundant? U do realize this no tank setup requires a level of coordination similar to ur static hence no tank loot dramas? just because a mainstream strategy is well known it DOESN"T MEAN any different setup strategies is labelled as exploit Using ur brain and creativity isn't an exploit duh!

---

No I dont. Fights like 8 WHM are usually much harder than the traditional trinity method. Or it requires the 8 WHMs to be overgeared. Very different from this situation. This situation makes a class redundant while making it much easier than intended. And no, sometimes when you use your creativity, it ends up as an exploit. Look at all those creative con-artists around. And politicians.

Anyway, why so mad? If you are so insistent that this isn't exploit, then just carry on with it. In the end, it's still SE's decision whether this is an exploit or not and whether to continue to allow it.

Summoners actually getting notoriety for something besides 4 renaud stack in turn 7? Better call it an exploit and demand they remove titan-egis viability as a tank pet. Lets remove ifrit-egi too while we're at it because anything that seems outside the norm should immediately be banhammered into oblivion. I wanna say that i'm disappointed in the community, But I kind of expected a mob of people like this. Good job FFXIV community, you never cease to amaze me with your all consuming desires to always have something to complain about. /clap

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jubez187

As smart as this is. I really hope it gets hotfixed immediately. Tanking on this game is already starting to lack, and now I don't need to be banned from certain fights altogether.

---

Really? Really?
Because one group getting creative means your never going to do Ramuh now.
Ridonkey kong.

After trying both methods of the fight (winning neither, boo), I think it's okay. You can still bring a tank, just have them equipped in STR gear/accessories. While it does remove the tank swap mechanic, it requires healers to have the Egi on Focus Target (and it helps to have a /ac "Physick" <tt> macro) as well as always keeping the SMN at 100% HP (and if they or Titan KO, it's more or less a wipe). You still have to deal with collecting orbs to lessen Thunderstrike's damage, Chaos/Seduce and Rolling Thunder.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Truxton

I wanna say that i'm disappointed in the community, But I kind of expected a mob of people like this. Good job FFXIV community, you never cease to amaze me with your all consuming desires to always have something to complain about. /clap

---

Agreed, the reaction of this thread went from happy to completely down hill and away from any real type of joy. So filled with hate, I even ignored a few people. Its just very disappointing :\

If they deem this tactic unfit then so be it, we aren't going to complain, we had alot of fun being creative with it. We never forced anyone to handle the fight in this way, they choose to and its a great compliment to us, so thank you to everyone on this thread that gave it a shot, you honor us <3

We're just overwhelmed that so many people took notice of this, even MrHappy made a guide on it and some top FC's tried it out.

This is such a cheese way to win this fight, please fix this SE.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RathSkybreaker

This is such a cheese way to win this fight, please fix this SE.

---

I don't know, enrage T2 wins are far cheesier. People still have to deal with the mechanics unlike enraging ADS in T2.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alish

I don't know, enrage T2 wins are far cheesier. People still have to deal with the mechanics unlike enraging ADS in T2.

---

The only difference is that cheesing Ramuh leaves you with one mechanic to deal with and enrage got rid of all of them, not much of a difference.