Why durability loss on return is stupid

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Originally Posted by Onidemon

people were complaining about the fact that there was no death penality and now you still complain? WOW had durability loss of 10% when you die and it works well.

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Did you miss the part where in WoW repairs to 100% are readily available?

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Originally Posted by Onidemon

people were complaining about the fact that there was no death penality and now you still complain? WOW had durability loss of 10% when you die and it works well.

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Had the repiar system remained the way it was previously I wouldnt be complaining it wasnt burdensome for most and it was MUCH CHEAPER. Not everyone has 800million billion gil to throw away at repairs.

I just payed to repair my Engraved Bhuj+1 at the npc it cost me 27k to 34% too75% ffs are u kidding me thats a new reduced lower repair cost for NPC? Before i would bazaar it and put it up for 4k and it was repaired in minutes. Now i bazaar it and it cost me at least 6k and some people want more. I die on my MAR while doing a leve because i whiff every possible attk making what shoulda been a easy kill/kills impossible and i lose 6%-8% on all my gear and not to mention coupled w/ the natural durability lose from doing the leve alone most of my gear goes from 100% to 80%ish in just a single damn leve. Hows this balanced ?! Hows it challenging to have to constantly repair gear everytime u do something in this game? Its a frickin annoyance; not a challenge. I highly doubt people want to pay 15$s a month to be annoyed.

And Onidemon my co-workers play wow(all doctors rofl) i called and asked them about repairs in the game guess what? shit doesnt degrade as fast w/ using and the cost isnt even comparable to ours.

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Originally Posted by Ilean

Did you miss the part where in WoW repairs to 100% are readily available?

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Yes he did lol

Lets just fight naked :)

Looks like yoshi plan is working getting that gil out of ppl's pockets lol

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Originally Posted by lunardemon

Lets just fight naked :)

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i tried that but SE wont let me take all my clothes off and not wear a weapon.

yeah i agree, the dungeons fun is kinda ruined for me because of the durability loss issue upon using return , tbh i think equipment durability is just stupid to begin with, it might be useful to help encourage crafting but its just more annoying than anything. I'd rather just see it taken out altogether.

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Originally Posted by Altano

To me it's less hassle. Especially since, for example, dungeon mobs yield SP. I play enough with friends that the experience loss wouldn't matter; it'd come back without trying.

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I always looked at it from this perspective:

1. I'm leveling up and gaining xp far more than I'm dying and losing it - and in much greater amounts.
2. I typically go a week or longer without dying... Getting back the lost xp for the odd death might take a couple hours tops.
3. If I'm with a group where folks are making careless mistakes and getting us killed, I'm not going to be sticking around with that group beyond one or two deaths.
4. A couple hours, tops, to get back lost xp in a game that I have already spent and/or likely will spend hundreds of hours, over the course of many months overall is a drop in the bucket. It's xp. You get it back.
5. If someone is dying so often that they're spending more time getting back lost xp than they are moving forward, they're doing something very, very wrong.
6. If someone knows they're going to be penalized for failure, and the idea of being penalized is *that* severe to them... then maybe they should re-evaluate the wisdom of undertaking unnecessarily dangerous tasks in the first place. Get help. Level up more and do it when it's safer.

I've seen people give some really exaggerated claims of "losing days of effort". Either those people are leveling *extremely* slowly, even by casual standards, are repeatedly making very dumb mistakes, or they're grossly exaggerating for more impact. Even in Lineage 2's "hey day", when xp loss for dying made XI's look like a slap on the wrist, it never took "days" to get it back.

I personally prefer xp loss over gear damage for one reason... at least with xp loss, getting it back involves actually being out fighting stuff, doing quests, etc. Gear repair potentially means having to stop what I'm doing, go back to town or try to seek out someone to make the repairs for me... I'd much rather be out getting the xp back during that time. That's just me, though.

So what do you guys plan on doing with all your millions of gil anyways? Im not 50 yet and i pay 10-20k to bazaar my repairs, not because i think crafters deserve it but because i want it done right away. Im sure if you shout in uldah with that price you'll get 100 crafters rushing to you.

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Originally Posted by lenn1

So what do you guys plan on doing with all your millions of gil anyways? Im not 50 yet and i pay 10-20k to bazaar my repairs, not because i think crafters deserve it but because i want it done right away. Im sure if you shout in uldah with that price you'll get 100 crafters rushing to you.

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What about the people who are stepping into the game in the new lower gil reward environment? Repairs really do need to have a significant price decrease and allow 100% repairs, because at this point the whole system is getting ridiculous.

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Yeah, I'm used to this system in WoW (where it actually did more damage to gear). What makes the system there less annoying is that you can repair all your gear to 100% at an NPC with just a few clicks of the mouse.

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Really You can get your gear to 100% at an NPC? Cause all that I know of only fix to 75% if you want better than that you have to find some one with the high enough skill level and the materials to do the job.

Damage to your gear even a EXP hit is expectable for death. But the hit seems to have gotten worse since the update thus the complaints.

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Originally Posted by Oscillate_Wildly

I think there's a little sarcasm in there, but I don't think they were greatly affected by deteriorating. You could probably run it down to I dunno...20%, or 0, I don't notice a ton of difference on any gear except for weapon. Weapon I tend to notice at least prepatch, a decrease in damage done.

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No sarcasm at all. I didn't know that. I always assumed I was getting hit for more damage when my gear was yellow or red. Maybe it was a placebo effect.

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Originally Posted by Chumeia

Really You can get your gear to 100% at an NPC? Cause all that I know of only fix to 75% if you want better than that you have to find some one with the high enough skill level and the materials to do the job.

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Read the quote more closely:

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Yeah, I'm used to this system in WoW (where it actually did more damage to gear). What makes the system there less annoying is that you can repair all your gear to 100% at an NPC with just a few clicks of the mouse.

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It was said that it's less annoying in WoW because NPCs repair to 100%.

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Originally Posted by Rowyne

Read the quote more closely:



It was said that it's less annoying in WoW because NPCs repair to 100%.

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Darn, and I was about to make a nice, caustic response. . .

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Originally Posted by Kensei

No sarcasm at all. I didn't know that. I always assumed I was getting hit for more damage when my gear was yellow or red. Maybe it was a placebo effect.

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The listed stats on a piece of weapon or armor are effected, I.E. Damage, Accuracy, Defense, Magic Defense, etc. Any extra effects like HP, Strength, etc. are never effected.

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Originally Posted by Colt47

What about the people who are stepping into the game in the new lower gil reward environment? Repairs really do need to have a significant price decrease and allow 100% repairs, because at this point the whole system is getting ridiculous.

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low level gear is easy to repair with low level crafting so thats not the issue. It's when you get to start wearing level 30+ gear that things get more difficult to repair. Unless you're one of those lowbies that run around in high level gear.

Durability loss is 100% better than exp/sp loss.

Nah, who cares. Repair is just a Dark Matter and a Crafter / a Repair NPC away. Not that big of a problem. I still go Leeroy Renshi even with this loss of durability on Return.

I have got to say I am quite conflicted over this. Yes death penalties suck but they are supposed to, you need team motivation to not die when you're doing stuff to keep everyone on their toes.

With that said, I do think the durability percentage at the moment is a bit high. Zane suggests:

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Originally Posted by Zane

- Reduce gear damage to 5% on death. This will still impose a penalty that will discourage reckless behavior while not forcing people to either level every single crafting job in order to repair their items in the field or avoiding anything that might pose even the slightest bit of danger. (Where is the adventure without danger?)

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I think a more progressive decrease in durability may work better, for example first death lose 10%, then 7% then 5% onwards. This will still take a good chunk for repeated deaths but if you are unlucky to have several in a short amount of time you won't have to repair your gear immediately - that's a change for 4 deaths from 40% to 27%, it is still substantial enough to warrant a repair but not enough to warrant heading back to town until you have finished what you are doing.

Zane also suggests:

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Originally Posted by Zane

- Allow the repair NPC to repair accessories. While accessory damage really does not matter, I often feel embarrassed joining behests with the red repair icon next to my name. It makes me feel like I'm showing the other players that I don't care about my gear.

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I agree with this, up to 75%. I think SE have withheld this thus far to give crafters more of an edge over the NPC.

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Originally Posted by Zane

- Allow the repair NPC to repair items to 100%. With gear at 75%, just 3 or 4 deaths sends us into red. Repairing to 100% would help give us a little wiggle room in allowing 4 or 5 deaths before we have to run back to town.

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This I disagree with, there needs to be an incentive to use crafters. But I share your feelings on wishing it was easier to get your gear back to 100%.

I think there needs to be an overhaul of how repairs are done, the system is not TOO bad but as someone suggested, there could be many ways to make it easier.

Perhaps submitting your gear to an NPC at one counter in your home town (Ul'Dah... lol) and having someone querying a different NPC at the same counter waiting to repair gear could work? It might be a nice thing to implement in Ishgard when it opens (assuming it will be the new Jeuno).

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Originally Posted by Zane

- Place repair NPCs at each of the camps. There is already an NPC at each camp that offers support imagery for crafting, why not allow an NPC for repairs? Perhaps the NPCs in town will repair to 100%, while the NPCs at camp will repair to 75%? .........

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I disagree with this, I think it is slightly too easy.

To summarise, I agree there needs to be a durability loss as a death penalty. I think it needs tweaking to be less harsh (only slightly) and the ease of getting repairs adjusted accordingly.

Durability lost is just stupid,

O wait, The whole durability itself is useless and stupid.

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Originally Posted by Icopico

Durability lost is just stupid,

O wait, The whole durability itself is useless and stupid.

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It is stupid, but necessary evily stupid needed.

I do not mind gear damge. I just feel 25% is to much. Especially considering how hard it is to get Exp. To get decent Exp. you have to hard things, that you almost know you will die at least once.

I don't mind the gear damage myself. I think it keeps the game in perspective. The way it was before, you would throw a leve at 5 stars, if you died oh well raise and run back in. Now it makes you think before you just rush in. It seems a little high but I would rather it be this then loss of SP

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Originally Posted by Nightpanda2810

I can no longer try dangerous things just for fun on my own. Not to mention only being able to put FIVE items in bazaar for repair at a time. Very annoying limitation.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y14...0-06-32-57.jpg

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Of course you can try dangerous tings on your own. You just need to learn to let go and take the hit if it comes.
Repairing is cheap as hell, and easy, so what exactly are you on?

Return durability loss was implemented to add a sense of danger to dying.

I think this is best, maybe reduce the amount to like 15-20% though. 4 deaths = full set of broken gear kind of sucks, but whatever.

Dying and losing SP in this game would be really bad. *It is not setup for SP grind parties yet*
Dying and losing all your money sucks. *No one wants to lose their gils*
Dying and losing nothing is lame. *Makes it seem like its ok to die*

Shouldn't you strive to be 100% successful in everything you do, especially in a video game? I do.

I just think 7% on every piece of gear you are wearing is a bit much. I think my character typically is wearing 11 pieces of equipment. That's a lot of durability loss lol. That's around 80% across all equipment if you add it all up for just one death.

I don't mind a penalty, whatever. But now it seems like I spend an awful lot of time trying to get repairs. And now, I almost have to pay for repairs on every piece of gear before heading out of town if they are not at 100%, even if they are at a pretty good durability, just so I don't have to come all the way back to town when in the middle of doing something.

The solution to all your problems:

Stop dying



now before you comment thats messed up to say, remember this, we got spoiled on no real death penalty before, so spoiled we got careless, alot of people still have that attitude and it needs to change

be more careful, play like you care if you die now, otherwise, its your own fault for losing durability so much

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

The solution to all your problems:

Stop dying



now before you comment thats messed up to say, remember this, we got spoiled on no real death penalty before, so spoiled we got careless, alot of people still have that attitude and it needs to change

be more careful, play like you care if you die now, otherwise, its your own fault for losing durability so much

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Gosh would you look at the attitude of people in this thread?

Durability loss can work, but SE has this habit of bloating costs to a ridiculous amount. Look at weapons and armor at NPCs both in this game and XI, incredibly bloated costs for very mediocre items. It makes no sense. Repair costs make no sense as well, and I don't understand this romance SE has with crafting. It's over the top.

They didn't think the system through and it's just causing frustration to players. It needs to be revisited.

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

Gosh would you look at the attitude of people in this thread?

Durability loss can work, but SE has this habit of bloating costs to a ridiculous amount. Look at weapons and armor at NPCs both in this game and XI, incredibly bloated costs for very mediocre items. It makes no sense. Repair costs make no sense as well, and I don't understand this romance SE has with crafting. It's over the top.

They didn't think the system through and it's just causing frustration to players. It needs to be revisited.

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the frustration is caused by the players themselves though, it has nothing to do with the system

fact is alot of players do not want to adapt to changes

they still go into fights balls to the wall not caring if they die
this is what caused people to demand more of a death penalty

so they gave one to us, and players still go in fighting the same way insetad of being more careful or smart about it


mobs too strong? fight something lower

solo players should not be fighting the same mobs that it takes groups of people to kill


there are tons of factors in this, but the main one is people need to adapt, and care if they die or not

so dont die, its your job to try to not die, not SEs job to make it so you dont throw a fit when you do

This is sapping all the fun out of the game for me right now. I imagine I will adjust, but /sigh this is getting too hardcore for my casual butt. :S

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Originally Posted by Cendres

This is sapping all the fun out of the game for me right now. I imagine I will adjust, but /sigh this is getting too hardcore for my casual butt. :S

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You're not serious, right?

Yeah I am, perfect parties here we go, no more taking chances to do the impossible or improbable. You'll have to look up how to do things and be prepared ahead of time. Gear swapping..

I didn't want to play XI again, ah well. This is better then a xp loss, sure by a bit. It's not perfect though.

Also combine this with un-adjusted leves, and well...

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

The solution to all your problems:

Stop dying



now before you comment thats messed up to say, remember this, we got spoiled on no real death penalty before, so spoiled we got careless, alot of people still have that attitude and it needs to change

be more careful, play like you care if you die now, otherwise, its your own fault for losing durability so much

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This^^ And/Or stop being such a "Cricket" player and ask for a raise when you're down xD Being anti social Helps no-one, there's no reason to whine^^ Most people have raise now :P

Hi, I'm one of the casual butt player and i dont find this stupid, hard, or anything, if its leveling, is super easy to get it now compare before 1.18.

Gear doesn't get damaged for dying, it gets damaged for using Return after you died. You can die all you want as long as there's someone to raise you, but it sucks totally when you're soloing some wack leves and keep on dying. My wife has experienced this problem several times, and has kind of sworn off leves for a while (they're not worth a crap before rank 30 anyways). Then again, she and I always try to do hard leves.

Luckily, she and I have used the repair NPC now that it's cheaper. I don't need my gear at 100% all the time, unless i'm going to sell it off. I can also get overnight repair in the Mender's Row if i want 100%. Doesn't bother me too much, but then again I spend time to actually make money, so it's really no sweat for me. I would imagine if you're the kind of player that doesn't take time to make gil, then it sucks even worse. Of course a player like that is probably going to have crap gear anyways, so why not just roll with broken gear?

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Originally Posted by Cendres

Yeah I am, perfect parties here we go, no more taking chances to do the impossible or improbable. You'll have to look up how to do things and be prepared ahead of time. Gear swapping..

I didn't want to play XI again, ah well. This is better then a xp loss, sure by a bit. It's not perfect though.

Also combine this with un-adjusted leves, and well...

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Look, your gear doesn't stay damaged forever. You know you can repair it, right?

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

the frustration is caused by the players themselves though, it has nothing to do with the system

fact is alot of players do not want to adapt to changes

they still go into fights balls to the wall not caring if they die
this is what caused people to demand more of a death penalty

so they gave one to us, and players still go in fighting the same way insetad of being more careful or smart about it


mobs too strong? fight something lower

solo players should not be fighting the same mobs that it takes groups of people to kill


there are tons of factors in this, but the main one is people need to adapt, and care if they die or not

so dont die, its your job to try to not die, not SEs job to make it so you dont throw a fit when you do

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This has very, very little to do with people taking on enemies that they shouldn't and it has absolutely nothing to do with party play. This issue has everything to do with the player that diligently logs on every reset to do their 8 leves, does them solo, and then logs off.

Durability loss on return isn't a huge problem for people that are already rank 50, or have a linkshell full of friends, or even a static to do their leves in. It's for people who can't raise them self because they're dead. In my post I gave a list of several leves which when done on 1 star difficulty, 3 - 4 levels ABOVE the recommended rank will get you killed, and killed several times no matter how good of a player you are. Now, I'm not the best or greatest player that ever lived, but I do know that I am pretty good, and I die to these problem leves all the time.

Now, I don't mean to make assumptions, but unless you have leveled entirely off of leves, from 1 - 50, completely solo with no outside help from any one I don't think you can make the connection as to just how bad this is hurting us solo players. If you haven't, I challenge you to level a class from 1 to 50 solo, entirely on leves, and if you can still tell us that gear damage on return isn't an issue, then I will concede my point.

Again, for the rest of the game, this punishment might be alright. But the main argument I'm seeing from people posting here is that they cannot solo their leves any more. When the development team is touting that they are trying to make the game accessible to all play styles and take away the very heart and soul, bread and butter of the solo player, well, I think you can see where we might be a little upset.

How upset would you have been if Darkhold had a 36 hour lockout period upon clearing it or wiping 3 times? You would be upset. It would be a poor design choice, absolutely stupid, and do nothing but hinder any chance at end-game progression within this game. I'm sure some people would quit. Well, to us, making leves nigh un-soloable is our 36 hour lock out on Darkhold.

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Originally Posted by Serio

Gear doesn't get damaged for dying, it gets damaged for using Return after you died. You can die all you want as long as there's someone to raise you, but it sucks totally when you're soloing some wack leves and keep on dying. My wife has experienced this problem several times, and has kind of sworn off leves for a while (they're not worth a crap before rank 30 anyways). Then again, she and I always try to do hard leves.

Luckily, she and I have used the repair NPC now that it's cheaper. I don't need my gear at 100% all the time, unless i'm going to sell it off. I can also get overnight repair in the Mender's Row if i want 100%. Doesn't bother me too much, but then again I spend time to actually make money, so it's really no sweat for me. I would imagine if you're the kind of player that doesn't take time to make gil, then it sucks even worse. Of course a player like that is probably going to have crap gear anyways, so why not just roll with broken gear?

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Yep will have to wait for reraise at some point. I haven't been using the repair merchant yet, kind of don't want to. So far I'm sitting in Ul'dah on my down time. Perhaps my experience was bad because I had a bad party experience yesterday. Just finished a duo leveling party and that was great. Time will tell, people need to learn their jobs I just hope this isn't the start of the community dictating what food to eat, what to wear and that kind of thing from XI because then I will leave, no question.

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Originally Posted by Cendres

I just hope this isn't the start of the community dictating what food to eat, what to wear and that kind of thing from XI because then I will leave, no question.

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This happens in MMO's regardless of anything. There will always be the "Optimal" way to do things, and then there will be the way you do things.

If you can't handle people saying what the best gear/skill set is. Then I suggest you don't play Multiplayer games period. Hell you get this kind of elitism even in Call of Duty message boards, and clans. Any form of multiplayer game will have people who are number crunchers and want to optimize every aspect of their game.

Then you have people who play how they want to play.

So if your going to leave because people have optimal gear suggestions I suggest you leave now and never play a MMO again because it happens in them all.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

This happens in MMO's regardless of anything. There will always be the "Optimal" way to do things, and then there will be the way you do things.

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Blah blah.. FFXI was the worst offender I've ever seen, I've played most MMOs out there. There's NO other winner for an MMO with the most amount of elitism, you play XI long enough and you know there's a right way to do this and that and no other way counts. And that is lame, you want to play that game, that's cool. But that's not what I was signing up for originally. I'll have to join gifthorse's picket line pretty soon here.