Dear SE, Yoshi, etc, remove Coil lock outs. Right now.

if the point is to let people that cleared coil to help people that haven't, then just make sure that the veteran player can go back to previous coils and have no right to any loot.

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Originally Posted by NinjaTaru72

No. Because then

1. people will run it over and. Over and full gear within a week, then complain
They have nothing to do, no content. Bla bla bla.

2. Runs will get sold and yeah... That whole argument.

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there are already ppl selling 2nd coil runs for 5m each + t7 tomestone

I like but also dislike the Idea.
Even if someone from a static drops out, you could still go raiding with a replacement from another team.
This isn´t possible because of lockout.

But without lockout you would be seeing people buying these runs again.
Right now noone can really do this because most of the people still need their gear.
So without lockout, people could just rerun it after obtaining their gear and get people through the content.

And everyone should know that its easier with a team that downed it +1 than a new team.

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Originally Posted by Nouran

ماجدة سهام :P

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guess im not the only arabian around here :p

I wouldn't be opposed to allowing players who have already completed turns in SCoB to help friends/randoms out with SCoB with say, a limit on not being able to lot on gear.

I would be opposed to this being allowed then high end LS/FC selling clears for players.

"CAN'T HAVE ONE WITHOUT THE O~THER."

If you could get 1 item/turn/week, you could get full set in 1month...that's to fast.
If you could do any turn, any day of the week, you could quite easily carry ppl through, one at a time, then coil would be to easy. And you could gear up everyone in your FC, with HA gear, in a month or 2.
If you can't get more than 1item/week, you'll see that one item you been looking for, for weeks....disappear, cause no one rolled on it. Or that DRG spear goes to a healer that don't even have DRG; they just rolled, cause they could, and then you won't see it again, for months.
They will eventually remove the lock-out, like they did with 1st coil, and Labyrinth.
But i do agree, I'm in a static T9 group, and because of that i can't help FC. In order to help, i'd need to cap an alt char, and for that you need standard subscription.

I'd say the only way one could "remove" the coil is if they imposed the following. "Only a max of two players can re-enter coil if they alrdy completed it" AKA basically 6 players have to of not completed the dungeon while they can bring along two members that may have already done the dungeons.

This would allow larger FC with mismatched numbers to bring other along but it would have to work like this.

Throwing out a random number like 30. So with 30 you have 3 full groups with 6 leftover.

Now with those 6 they can form a part and bring along two people that alrdy completed the dungeon but those 2 people can't lot on the gear.

The reason why I would impose 2 is because I think 2 is the fairest amount to limit the exploit of attempting to gear up faster and it's a logical number in terms of people that need to get coil done compared to those who already have it done. Making it a 50/50 split would just cause it to be exploited so then the real question is if you were ok with not being able to lot on the piece of gear that drops would you still do coil?

Basically what I'm trying to propose is this.
-Coil lockout stays
-6 players must still need to complete the coil stage in order to do it
-2 players that already completed the dungeon can help
-Said 2 players can not lot on any piece of gear that drops

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Originally Posted by Crimson-Falcon

guess im not the only arabian around here :p

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I thought I was the only one lmao

On topic: Definitely wish all coils have the same lockout system as CT.

I want to just babble about a loot system for coil that I have in my head. The goal is to have a loot lockout instead of the current lockout while not giving out too many pieces to everyone, which is the reason why some people are against loot lockout for coil. I'm not entirely convinced that it's the right way to go and you can tell me what you think.

Well, if we look at the loot gained per week, it's 8 people and 2 pieces each week from 1 turn. It would take 4 weeks to get 8 pieces that goes to whichever lucky player/players from that 1 turn. So if there's a win token system (you can win multiple times a week but you can only get one win token from 1 turn a week), they can make it so that you need 4 wins in 4 weeks to exchange it for 1 piece of gear. While it'll technically will let 8 people to get 1 gear each every 4 weeks, it'll stagger the gear gains of the group. Suppose that the average coil group can go up to turn 8 each week and win and then give up on turn 9, they'd need to win it for 4 weeks straight without any new gear from coil and then at the end of the 4th week, suddenly every player in the group gains 3 pieces of coil gear, possibly a whopping 6 item levels.

I suppose we can stagger and separate the exchanges into tiers and have t6 token, t7 token and t8 token and then have t6 only need 3 win tokens to be exchanged for gear, t7 4 tokens, t8 5 tokens. But would that take too long, considering most groups dont start winning t6-t8 in one week? We also probably need to reshuffle the loot tables. Should a body piece still have the same weight in tokens as a ring? What about tome, oil, and sand? Outside of t9, you get 8 of these in...8 weeks. Do they need to be tokenized too? What about t9 itself? It's THE fight to beat for most people, should it stay the same or tokenized too? Personally I don't think it should.

Still, this'll allow more than just multiples of 8 to gear up in coil..if the core group is willing to help out other players in the FC to get a weekly win, that is. Would that be considered a carry? Even if the members pull their weight? Would a 'core group' notion even exist still? Should there be more lower tier rewards for people who already has their win token for the week to help out the other FC members considering it's a hardcore content and you might not one shot it or have clashing schedules? Just loads of myth? Would that even be enough? Would it be seen as shirking from their FC 'duties' if they decide to bail out after their own win? Is this not exchanging a type of player dispute for another?

I personally don't agree with removing progression lockout for SCoB. I feel that this content is designed to allow for progression content raiders to learn and grow as a group and optimize upgrading members who need it the most to allow for the content to not date itself by the time new content is added.

I can understand how some users want to help out their fellow FC members/friends as this content isn't as important to them anymore, but understand that as current content, the main focus is to allow static groups to progress together. Once the content has become outdated, the lockouts are removed to allow for more casual players to experience the content and progress without the need for a full dedicated group.

My current static group hasn't made much progress, we started very late, as we weren't fully formed for a while after the content was introduced, after some minor issues with various members, people unfortunately were replaced, and now we are still looking for one member. However, we aren't exactly doing much to look for a new member as much as we should.

Understanding this position, it would be ideal for someone in a current static who has progressed through the content that wants to help fill a few slots. I feel, however, it's more important for us to fill this position ourselves with someone that will be able to progress with us and build group synergy. I value progression as a raid group is more important than getting through content as fast as possible.

However, I understand that not all players value this sort of progression, and are more interested in just clearing content as fast as possible and this lockout is getting in the way of this. I think it should be understood that players who aren't able to fill each slot of a static group are casual raiders, and aren't the primary focus of the current content until the lockouts are removed with the introduction of new content.

With the Brutal version of SCoB coming out, as well as the new Crystal Tower, current static will be challenging themselves each week with this new mode, and everyone (casual or not) will be looking to upgrade their weathered gear as well as gear up other classes with Crystal Tower, and with the tomestone and sands/oils of time being dropped in CT, players don't need to run SCoB to upgrade their gear.

Sorry for the longer message, understand that this is only my opinion, and many of you may not value my point of view. Please understand that I mean no disrespect to you or your opinions, and simply wanted to voice my own opinion on the subject.

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Originally Posted by Radacci

If you could get 1 item/turn/week, you could get full set in 1month...that's to fast.

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I think you need to check your calculations there if you think a full set is four pieces.

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Originally Posted by Oscillate_Wildly

Right now the hardest mechanic in SCOB is actually getting enough people to go every week without needing to twist someone's arm.

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Thats the thing. Since 2 weeks before 2.2 my late evening group broke up cause of real life and other issues. Since that I didn't got enough people together, that can be ingame 2-3 times a week the same time for at least 2 hours.

I gave it up last week to form that party.

T6 and 7 I have downed as a replacement in another party. This also was only possible, because they had these days enough time to wait for me. Some of these players do play the time I can too. Others mostly not.

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Originally Posted by Grizzlebeard

I think you need to check your calculations there if you think a full set is four pieces.

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I think you need to re-read the post you quoted. "1 item/turn/week" in particular. For 6-9 that would be 4 pieces a week, and there's no more than 3 pieces for a given job in each turn. So it would actually take less time, only 3 weeks.

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Originally Posted by ispano

I think you need to re-read the post you quoted. "1 item/turn/week" in particular. For 6-9 that would be 4 pieces a week, and there's no more than 3 pieces for a given job in each turn. So it would actually take less time, only 3 weeks.

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Thanks, I missed that 1 item/turn/week. Admittedly I was skimming with the belief people were asking for a CT level lockout. 1 item/turn/week would not be a good idea.

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Originally Posted by Altimis

How you prevent sell run still?

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By loot locking you just for boss kill not by getting loot itself? sure there is still oils and tomes from T7 but who cares, those will soon be in new CT anyway.

I do understand why the lockouts exist the way they do, however, they could just make it a weekly WIN lockout on loot. That is, when you clear a turn, no matter what loot drops and whether you win the loot, only your first weekly clear is allowed loot. You are then free to enter the same turn again and win again and again and again (say, to help friends, or your FC, or your static), but you cannot win loot.

This is the same as the daily reward on Roulettes -- you are free to clear the Roulette however many times you want in a day, but you only receive the extra bonus on the first win.

This way, people are still only getting one chance at loot per turn per week, but are also free to continue to enter and play the content if they so wish.

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Originally Posted by Tadacho

they could just make it a weekly WIN lockout on loot. That is, when you clear a turn, no matter what loot drops and whether you win the loot, only your first weekly clear is allowed loot.

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+1 vote for that.

I think it's funny how in earlier pages of this thread, people complain that removing the lock out would suddenly make people log in less.
News flash, I know several people and linkshells who log in to do their Coil 6-8, bang around at 9 one evening, and not log in at all for the rest of the week for any other purpose. Not even to socialise.

If people already aren't logging in at this point to do other content, then removing the lock out won't suddenly kill their urge to play.

Also on the above, I like the idea that your first win is a chance at loot, and a lock is put in place. That way the loot system is kept as it is which is good, but FC's and friends could get the numbers they need to fill in missing spots. This would also remove that pesky "can't do turn 6 at all if you skipped forward and started turn 7." Which I might add is a HORRIBLE system.

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Originally Posted by Velthice

Looks right to me. Horizontal progression is a myth. There will always be "that one item" that is optimal over everything else and getting it becomes "required" for that class.

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Except FFXI had excellent horizontal progression that allowed old content to stay relevant for years, making so people are actually encouraged to do it.

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Originally Posted by Gardes

Dont you mean horizontal?

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Yes, sorry.

Can't we ever get some original threads?

No, lockouts are staying for the ten pages worth of reasons already stated.

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Originally Posted by Tadacho

That is, when you clear a turn, no matter what loot drops and whether you win the loot, only your first weekly clear is allowed loot.

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Originally Posted by TeganLaron

No, lockouts are staying for the ten pages worth of reasons already stated.

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With above suggestion everything would be pretty much how it is now except you could spam turns to help FC members or just for fun. I would do alot coil2 even if i have been lootlocked as there really aint that much else to do atm besides Novus grind, hell i would propably do some turns with my dragoon for a change.

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Originally Posted by Oscillate_Wildly

I think it's funny how in earlier pages of this thread, people complain that removing the lock out would suddenly make people log in less.
News flash, I know several people and linkshells who log in to do their Coil 6-8, bang around at 9 one evening, and not log in at all for the rest of the week for any other purpose. Not even to socialise.

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Yep, pretty much. The game right now is pretty much dead, social-wise. Most people are AFK and log to do DL or dailies and then log out.

Truly an immersive experience this mmorpg, eh.

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Originally Posted by Taruranto

Yep, pretty much. The game right now is pretty much dead, social-wise. Most people are AFK and log to do DL or dailies and then log out.

Truly an immersive experience this mmorpg, eh.

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I find this to be completely untrue.

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Originally Posted by Majidah

Okay, I'll get straight to the point. snip.

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I would tell you to look for a different MMO...but guess what? Most of them have caps on new raids. If you can't find anything else to do in this game then the problem most probably lies with you.

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Originally Posted by KenzieLynch

If you can't find anything else to do in this game then the problem most probably lies with you.

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Sure there is kinda lots to do specially if you dont play that much, but for those whose main focus is raiding there aint that much to do. Our FC is pretty much filled with raiders and nolifers only, some of them have leveled all classes and other half just focus on 1-2 jobs because whats the point in leveling if you dont ever use said classes? crafting is also kinda pointless besides culinary so again whats the point in leveling those. So in the end there are not many players online besides animus/novus grinders in our FC after weekly reset because everyone has done things that intrest them already :(

Everyone likes diffirent things, things you might like might bore me to death an vice versa.

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Originally Posted by Taruranto

Yep, pretty much. The game right now is pretty much dead, social-wise. Most people are AFK and log to do DL or dailies and then log out.

Truly an immersive experience this mmorpg, eh.

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Yup. This is what my GF and I have been doing lately...as well as all of our friends/FC/LS mates. There isn't anything to do.

At least they should allow you to run it again with a different class. Got the loot with my tank? I'll run it now as a healer.

Lockout in this game is much more severe then in other MMOs because classes are tied to the one character you have. On WoW I would run it as a tank, then switch to the healer character and run it again. 4 classes, 4 runs and I would keep all my week busy. It would be like other MMOs locking your entire account for the week. SE can't see this big flaw in their design. The way FFXIV handles classes is different from how others handle it so the same system doesn't work on here.

I can't believe they're discouraging the very thing I liked most about this game, changing classes on the fly.

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Originally Posted by Synestra

Sure there is kinda lots to do specially if you dont play that much, but for those whose main focus is raiding there aint that much to do. Our FC is pretty much filled with raiders and no lifers only

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Well, then I have to ask: if your primary interest is raiding, then why on earth would you choose FFXIV as your MMO?

Personally I adore the game, but lets face it every MMO has it's strengths and it's weaknesses and raiding was never going to be one of FFXIV's main selling points. Choosing to subscribe to an MMO in which your primary interest is one of the game's weakest features, and then complaining that there is nothing for you to do, is borderline idiocy.

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Originally Posted by KenzieLynch

Well, then I have to ask: if your primary interest is raiding, then why on earth would you choose FFXIV as your MMO?

Personally I love the game, but lets face it every MMO has it's strengths and it's weaknesses and raiding was never going to be one of FFXIV's strengths or selling points. Choosing to subscribe to an MMO in which your primary interest is one of the game's weakest features, and then complaining that there is nothing for you to do, is borderline idiocy (I added the 'borderline' for politeness).

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Says who? I don't recall the game being advertised as a fishing simulator or MMO crafter?

I think you missed the memo where Yoshi stated the game begins at 50. You'd have to be an idiot, borderline or otherwise, to translate that as something other than raiding/dungeon-bashing.

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Originally Posted by Grizzlebeard

Says who? I don't recall the game being advertised as a fishing simulator or MMO crafter?

I think you missed the memo where Yoshi stated the game begins at 50. You'd have to be an idiot, borderline or otherwise, to translate that as something other than raiding/dungeon-bashing.

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It's a Final Fantasy MMO. It was always going to be fairly casual with an emphasis on grinding over raiding.

It would be like me subscribing to Guild Wars 2 for it's story, then complaining on the forums about how much the levelling sucked and that I had no interest in WvsWvsW PVP.

Loot lockouts should just go away. The concept that by limiting the drops will keep the players playing is more limited in logic then anything.

People are acting like you will have every single item for all of your jobs in a week, which is insane. Even with the ability to run a fight over and over doesn't mean you will see the item you want drop every time or that you will get the winning lot.

Basically were paying for a game which they don't want us to actually play, and worse the complacent players think it is ok...

I pay for the game and want to play all the released content as much as I want. The whole concept that you could raid 4 turns in the second coil, get locked out for the week and still not have a single piece of gear for it is absurd. With a new tower, its just going to be more of the same.

I really wonder if SE got the hint with 1.0 and that by not entertaining the customers they will lose them.

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Originally Posted by KenzieLynch

It's a Final Fantasy MMO. It was always going to be fairly casual with an emphasis on grinding over raiding.

It would be like me subscribing to Guild Wars 2 for it's story, then complaining on the forums about how much the levelling sucked and that I had no interest in WvsWvsW PVP.

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Did you not play FFXI?

But then you'd see through the shallowness of modern MMO design and carrot and sticks, whoops I mean, you'll run out of content!

i think one solution for this would be quite a simple one. se has dropped the ball and led its entire playerbase into the belief that a single character can have any and as many job/classes they like and won't be punished for this. as it stands we are punished and locked out of content for no good reason really.
there could be a potion similar to a fantasia that allows me to split my character jobs on to a different character permanently instead of it being on one character that is essentialy gimped and locked out from content except for the one class that is the main. this way we could do the content more and gain more actual value from the sub.

are people still going to scream overflow of loot and unbalance in the world? this is essentialy the same as rolling multiple different characters.

SE could do a 1 lock out per class type of deal. However they would have to do something like make it impossible to roll loot for other classes, to make it not easy to gear up. In traditional MMOs that have 1 week raid lock outs you level up 1 class per character usually have a lot of alts to play other classes and roles it makes it so you have more then enough characters to raid with and probably don't run the current raid on all of them.

It would seem weird though like they would have to make it in FFXIV if they did one lock out per class that you can only get loot based on what you are currently playing and to players that would just seem weird. Because it would have to be that way because in traditional mmos you can't go on an alt win loot for your main and send it to him because its bound to the character doing the raid.

Some suggestions:

 Weekly loot lockout. Just like when CT came out (I wasn't there but people told me how it was).
 Weekly entries increased. Like 2 entries a week, so you have a chance to go again with another class.
 Weekly lockout per class. You wouldn't be able to enter as WHM if you already completed the dungeon as WHM that week. Giving you a chance to get pieces of gear on all the available classes SE made you get in 1 single character.

What do you think? :o

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Originally Posted by razzgrizz3

there could be a potion similar to a fantasia that allows me to split my character jobs on to a different character permanently instead of it being on one character that is essentialy gimped and locked out from content except for the one class that is the main..

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Or just allow running it with another class. Is that simple.

The problem here is that SE still doesn't understand the huge flaw with their class design when it comes to lockouts. They did it the same way every other MMO does it just because every other MMO does it without realizing what impact it will have in their unique way of how they handle classes.

The way they handle classes is amazing and I wish every other MMO could implement it but they shouldn't lock a character for the entire week but the class. Since some classes use the same armor if you run it as PLD lock both PLD and warrior for example.

I would love for this to go to a loot lockout system like Crystal Tower is, or something similar. Anything that will let me run with my friends who can't necessarily make it for static coil times.

Progress lockout No, Gear Lockout Yes.

I agree with the sentiment for loot lock out over zone lock out...ANYTHING...that gets people playing together again.

I was gaming with friends, friends I've had for years from XI and explored beta together...we all learned and relearned in some cases X|V and had been a coil static through first coil. Second coil rolls around and we start having scheduling problems. After enough frustrated attempts and starts/stops/restarts on the static some just gave up and joined other groups leaving others of us pretty hurt and abandoned. Nice community builder there SE.

I have the skillset and dedication to work on second coil. Would love the challenge. I'm pretty sure downing T9 hammered with a broken hand would be easier than pulling a static together again let alone the paranoia if the same thing will just happen again.

I miss my friends. I miss playing with them. But there's nothing that we can do together that we can sink our teeth into that's a challenge. Scheduling shouldn't be considered the challenge. Final Fantasy Statics is a pretty lousy game currently. Letting people have the option to flex their groups or fill without worry about complete zone lock out would be 10000000000000000000000000000x better than the vitriol that happens now when friendships go south all over a game. Something that is supposed to be fun and enjoyable.

I gave up on 1.0 at beta extremely disappointed and stayed with XI. The most exciting thing last year was getting that first round beta invite for 2.0, loving the game, and looking forward to being here a long time. It's been nothing but disappointment and heartache since the last patch. And STILL no self-set alliance formations for CT at 2.3? That was crushing to find out that I can't organize runs with all my friends in my Free Company especially in light of the cluster that second coil was.

People already sell coil runs. That as an excuse for a weekly lock out is bulldonkey. People who want money will figure out how to get money. Why punish the rest of the community and fracture an already fragile structure more? So many people I know either don't log in anymore or only log in for coil/roulette/novus map then log out again barely interacting with their ls/fc anymore. That is absolutely sorrowing.

People say complaining on the forums doesn't change anything. That Yoshi-P has Spoken and his Word will be the Law. Well I'm sorry. I have to hope for better out of this staff and him than that. So many positive turn arounds in the last 2 years...lets work a little more on that.

Would prefer if you could redo the Turns all you want but you could only get 1 piece of loot per week. Would make it substantially more fair. Instead a lucky few getting something each week and possibly one lucky sob getting tons.