New MP costs seem a bit too high

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Originally Posted by ZhangoSqu

Is it just me, or do the MP costs for the Cure-spells seem unnecessarily high? I mean Cure II costs 75 MP? I mean I can see Cure (I) costing 20, Cure II between 40 and 50, Cure III around 75... but their costs in this patch are prohibitively expensive.

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It's ludicrous. It makes it less fun to have to stress about mp costs.

About the people complaining about people complaining about content they haven't even tried out yet..I would try it, if the downloader were not so shitty >_>'

Also, simple maths is enough for this.
If I have 500 MP and 1 x Cure is 75 MP, I can cast Cure 6 times without going into passive mode, given I don't have to rise or buff anyone or just use ANY other MP-consuming action.
With MP regenerating skills, it goes up to 8-9 times healing, no more AoE heal though, so..
I don't have to play to notice this is too much.

I wouldn't even be raging so much if the other classes I like didn't get nerfed too.
Since FF 14 has this great weapon switch = class switch system, I can just stop being a CON if I hate the changes.
But MRD and archer got worse too, although it's not as bad as the mage classes.

Oh well. Basically, I'm just trolling until patching is finally done..:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Shika

They're especially high considering they just nerfed Siphon MP/Siphon MP II (single target only now) and they're not giving Mages bigger MP pools.....

And yes I know it's balancing, and more changes will probably come etc etc, but on first reading let's just say I was not a happy bunny about 95% of the changes to the Mage classes :(

Just my personal opinion. I hope over time I'm proved wrong ^^

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you've seen videos of thms soloing everything in game right?

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Originally Posted by Sonic_the_Hedgehog

No more easy mode for you babies!

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hell yeah!!

but we still need a meaningful death penalty!

Wait for them to add Bard or redmage, then you can stop crying about MP lol

MP costs may seem high at the moment, but SE still has to tweak our stats and make them more worthwhile to a player, so who knows how things will pan out with 1.19 and 1.20. Perhaps what seems unbalanced now will be balanced by then.

I'm also going to believe they tested out these new MP number crunches themselves, and feel it is okay (whether for now or in the long run)...or else why would they release it to us as is?

My guess is they set it so high so when the jobs come out (like WHM) you can select to be WHM and get reduced cure magic mp cost. Kind of like with that new FF:4 heroes of light - all classes can cure but WHM gets to do it more efficiently.

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Originally Posted by ZhangoSqu

God I hope so. Attributes sorely need to be reworked in terms of their affect and potency I feel.


How often did you end up in long fights (e.g. Open World NMs)? This is going to certainly impact those fights, clearly making them more difficult (not a bad thing since the party size reduction, they had become relatively easy) but the MP costs are going to see an exhaustion of MP more often than not now I fear in long fights.

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Heaven forbid you need more than one healer!

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Originally Posted by Sonic_the_Hedgehog

No more easy mode for you babies!

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No more heal for you melees, enjoy healing yourself babies!

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Originally Posted by MartaDemireux

..all classes can cure but WHM gets to do it more efficiently.

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Google: "FFXIV Class Affinity"

It already exists, just not in any obvious and significant form.

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Originally Posted by Evangela_II

No more heal for you melees, enjoy healing yourself babies!

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Stop being a bad healer and this won't be an issue, bro. Educate yourself on proper MP conservation and stop holding people back.

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Originally Posted by DAOWAce

Google: "FFXIV Class Affinity"

It already exists, just not in any obvious and significant form.

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Oh I know, but what better way to increase such a thing than with the job system?

Edit: And it is pretty significant with most spells like DoTs, nukes and cures.

we don't have mp "coming out the ass."

We did with Siphon MP AOE and in passive mode, but since we can't cast in passive yet, 150 is a fucking steep price to heal your tank. That's 10 cures before I'm out of MP and I have 110 MND (I'd respec more but there's a fucking cooldown on it... OH and I can't stay connected to the game for more than 10 min).

It's a tad ridiculous. 10 cures? You know how many cures I shoot out during Great Buffalo - AND it was AOE and I had unlimited MP. Probably 50-100.

Yeah that's a challenge alright. A fng steep one. I'm not exactly complaining but without "casting in passive" which would sorta off-set the huge MP cost, I think it may be damn near impossible unless you have extra healers recharging in passive while you fight (and let me tell you how fun that is - standing around waiting for MP).

I don't know. I'm all for skillful play and managing MP is always part of the "skill" involved for mages, but I'm also for "fun play" and standing around in passive while others do a job I'm used to doing alone is pretty boring. Everything about the battle system now seems boring-ified to me. Can't really judge accurately until we try and wipe to G.Buffalo or dungeons. (See note about disconnect every 10 min).

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Originally Posted by Atoli

About the people complaining about people complaining about content they haven't even tried out yet..I would try it, if the downloader were not so shitty >_>'

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I agree the downloader stinks, but the issue is that you're complaining before you've tried it. And you're complaining based on things that aren't actually problems. You were talking about a level 1 Conj using a level 48 skill. That's not going to happen.

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Also, simple maths is enough for this.
If I have 500 MP and 1 x Cure is 75 MP, I can cast Cure 6 times without going into passive mode, given I don't have to rise or buff anyone or just use ANY other MP-consuming action.
With MP regenerating skills, it goes up to 8-9 times healing, no more AoE heal though, so..
I don't have to play to notice this is too much.

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First, your Mind is 15. Put some points into Mind, and your MP pool will increase.

Second, I'm a little surprised if you only have 500 MP at level 23 Conj. Are you sure that's right? As I said earlier, my level 31 Weaver has over 500 MP.

I'm also concerned about the amount of MP it takes to cure. But I'd like to try it out before I start rending garments and gnashing teeth.

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I wouldn't even be raging so much if the other classes I like didn't get nerfed too.
Since FF 14 has this great weapon switch = class switch system, I can just stop being a CON if I hate the changes.
But MRD and archer got worse too, although it's not as bad as the mage classes.

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I understand that Arc was nerfed. But how was Marauder nerfed? Looks to me like Marauder is going to be pretty much the same. The biggest difference that I see is that Storm's Path is now going to take 1500 TP and be stronger, and we can use BloodBath more often.

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Oh well. Basically, I'm just trolling until patching is finally done..

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Glad to hear you're going to try it out. Good luck getting through the patcher. And see ya in game. :)

melee players...

enjoy your harder game and laugh at mages nerfing while you can

I'll wait and see how long you ppl can keep your smiles

now you gotta manage you magic use, it still easier than ffxi back in the old days.

No more mana burns...it's been a long time

1. Frontlines should bring second wind or a self heal.
2. Is it too much to ask the frontline bring either a tanking or evasion tanking skill?
3. Healers shouldn't heal someone to max in the middle of a battle.
4. I hope healers are using damage mitigation skills. As a GW player, skills that keep red bars up are always better than red bar go up skills. In that game, something like protective spirit will never get nerfed just because it is so key to fighting. If things like stoneskin, protect, and shell don't shield players quite enough, maybe those skills should be buffed. IE make the skill in predicting who's going to get hit and shielding them with lower cost defensive skills than blowing your MP on spamming heals.

It's a lot more old school, when healing isn't end of the world. And it makes sense now that light/full pts increase hp/mp.

They didn't have to nearly quadruple the costs though. 2x would have been enough, 2.5 tops.

I thought that they wanted to make soloing easy and enjoyable for those who don't have a lot of time - this is a huge kick in the balls against that. I don't disagree with them raising the costs, just by the amount they did it.

If they want to rebalance the MP usage, why don't just decrease the auto-MP regen rate?

that's the real problem and they can easily adjust it without nerfing any skill

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Originally Posted by Shai

Yeah that's a challenge alright. A fng steep one. I'm not exactly complaining but without "casting in passive" which would sorta off-set the huge MP cost, I think it may be damn near impossible unless you have extra healers recharging in passive while you fight (and let me tell you how fun that is - standing around waiting for MP).

I don't know. I'm all for skillful play and managing MP is always part of the "skill" involved for mages, but I'm also for "fun play" and standing around in passive while others do a job I'm used to doing alone is pretty boring. Everything about the battle system now seems boring-ified to me. Can't really judge accurately until we try and wipe to G.Buffalo or dungeons. (See note about disconnect every 10 min).

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Haven't tried the changes yet, so I can't say much until I do, but I'm going through WoW dejavu right now. The squeeze on healers was the final straw to my departure.

I don't have a problem with raising mp costs some, but I do take issue with not letting me do my job. I don't care for standing there twiddling my thumbs. Preferably, I like it when the group is taking on massive damage and I have to scramble to keep up. That's exciting and gets the adrenaline rushing.

Making mp an issue for stategy is all well and good, but neck-choking mp to the point you can't even heal is not my style of play. I'm not here to be on the sidelines half the time.

...*little kid voice* "I have buttons, I vant to push dem." :p

Anyway, just my 2 gil on that. Still looking forward to trying out the other things. :)

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Originally Posted by Cursive

you've seen videos of thms soloing everything in game right?

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Yes, but I wasn't referring to soloing. I'm talking about party play. For a lot of Mages this probably isn't going to cause a problem, but for example the group of ppl I play with in my LS I am the only healer. Now I cannot really choose to play as THM for a lot of things, I will have to use CON.
I agree totally that for a lot of stuff the amount of MP I have is more than enough- but I'm not talking about leves which are p**s easy; I'm more concerned about our plans as a fairly small group with limited classes available for the new dungeons.

Either way, all I said was that at first glance this change seems pretty horrible... but time will tell and I'm prepared to sit through and see how it pans out.

I really enjoyed the changes to battle doing the dungeons tonight. Spells and enmity is more focused along with attacks and I can actually tell whats going on and concentrate on adapting rather than spamming.

i think in time people will adjust. its a lot more to it then oh, cure II cost too much mana. its how you allot ur stats, how the tank is geared, how everyone else in ur group is geared.

of course being in a gimped party, its going to be hard to heal but with an efficient group, its manageable.

Yeah, I'm quite pleased with the changes to mages, though I was a skeptic at first.

The thing is, all our abilities are useful now, slow, paralyze, blind, REGEN...they all can be used effectively to mitigate dmg and handle MP management.

Of course this is assuming everyone else is doing their job. Yes, melees pulling hate ARE MP sponges again...and I'm so thankful for that.

I've been running the R50 dungeon with one other CON, and between the two of us, we can handle it easy. Sure MP gets low, but that's why we have Tranquility, Siphon MP, and the Auto-MP regen.

Does need an adjustment, but on the right track.

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Originally Posted by Corrderio

Does need an adjustment, but on the right track.

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I can dig it corrdy. Will agree perhaps they did go a Tad overboard with the mp cost bump.

My THM is R25 and I have like 800 MP .=.

......

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Originally Posted by GabbaGabba

i think in time people will adjust. its a lot more to it then oh, cure II cost too much mana. its how you allot ur stats, how the tank is geared, how everyone else in ur group is geared.

of course being in a gimped party, its going to be hard to heal but with an efficient group, its manageable.

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I agree, old habits die hard though. It's just like in WoW when Cata released and healers got screwed over completely since few people wanted to adjust to the healing changes. Eventually, melees stopped standing in fire as much and stopped doing stupid stuff and taking avoidable damage. You still get the occasional idiots, but it's not as bad as when Cata first launched. I expect the same to happen in XIV.

Hopefully people will realize that they NEED to equip their own class healing spells while the healer rests, and they learn that one healer might be able to take care of 2-3 people taking moderate damage, but not 7 people taking avoidable damage. We largely haven't needed melees using their class cures, now we do. People just need to learn to take a mainheal and a secondary back-up healer in case things get ugly. It'll take time, but it will happen eventually. Just like in XI where people learned you really don't need a WHM for a NIN tank (a good one at least), because they won't be taking as much damage as a PLD, thus a RDM could pretty much main heal a NIN, or a SMN. I preferred healing NINs on my SMN and PLDs on my WHM. It was a more efficient way of doing things. Hopefully the trend really takes off when jobs are introduced. I have a feeling WHM will lower cure costs and make them more potent, PLD will take less damage, etc.

And don't forget my fellow Disciples Of Magic, there are additional resources to help manage and restore MP ... such as potions (e.g. Ether) and food (e.g. Ginger Cookies).

Most mages don't use food or items because they have not been in a situation where they needed to. The Development Team's adjustments have now made those situations more likely to occur. This is not necessarily a bad thing.

Maybe this will encourage players to also start carrying meds around in them, offline-FF style. I know people didn't really carry those items in FFXI (unless a specific battlefield really called for it), but if you want to be keep on top of your MP pool maybe it is time to stop relying so much on a passive MP-regen and start bringing those Ethers! =D

Rather than complaining about changes, people should look into new playing styles they can adopt and a way to own the changes.

But I think that they should lowerr Con cure mp cost but not thm because as we all know Con is turning into more of a white mage class.

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Originally Posted by Tadacho

Maybe this will encourage players to also start carrying meds around in them, offline-FF style. I know people didn't really carry those items in FFXI (unless a specific battlefield really called for it), but if you want to be keep on top of your MP pool maybe it is time to stop relying so much on a passive MP-regen and start bringing those Ethers! =D

Rather than complaining about changes, people should look into new playing styles they can adopt and a way to own the changes.

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Hey if it's needed, I'll do it. But I hope all other classes do the same- melee in that case should carry potions and eat food that helps to increase their relevant stats also. Can't just ask mages to spend out ^^ Tanks will need to start eating food that increases their EVA etc.
(If they don't already... and I know quite a lot that don't.)

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Originally Posted by Tadacho

Rather than complaining about changes, people should look into new playing styles they can adopt and a way to own the changes.

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I know you mean well, and I say this with no malice towards anyone, including SE.

If an mmo doesn't have any class or content that I consider fun, I will move on. There's 0 point in paying for a game you are not having fun in. I fully understand that an mmo cannot appeal to every single potential customer. But as a customer who pays, I think I'm within fairness to expect an mmo to have something that bends somewhat to my playstyle, not the other way around.

That being said, I've no plans to go anywhere yet. The game isn't finished, and there are still other aspects for me to enjoy right now. That and looking for ways to beef up my conjurer. :)

I know allot of mages dont put many point in there stats for mp because of the old mp management was so easy. Reworking you stats to achieve a higher mp may be the way to go, if it still proves to be way to high im sure they will fix it by 1.19.

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

I know allot of mages dont put many point in there stats for mp because of the old mp management was so easy. Reworking you stats to achieve a higher mp may be the way to go, if it still proves to be way to high im sure they will fix it by 1.19.

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Yes, but what do you do when you play both melee and caster classes? Do I have to stop playing gladiator altogether? I guess it's a decision I'll have to make. :)

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Originally Posted by GabbaGabba

i think in time people will adjust. its a lot more to it then oh, cure II cost too much mana. its how you allot ur stats, how the tank is geared, how everyone else in ur group is geared.

of course being in a gimped party, its going to be hard to heal but with an efficient group, its manageable.

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Not only that but people need to start taking a little bit of responsibility for their own HP. If you're just some melee DD and you get hit with an AoE, don't wait around for the mages to heal you. Use Second Wind or Bloodbath + your largest damage dealing skill. If you can do that then the mages may not need to waste the MP healing you and they can focus on the Tank.

As someone in another thread brought up (albeit slightly jokingly) food items have a bit more of a place and more so (if I recall correctly) in 1.19 when they rework the food effects. Every little bit of an edge you can get helps.

I think people are focusing a little too much on JUST the mages when they need to be re-examining party mechanics and re-learning certain aspects of the game. Staying alive is now the entire party's job, not just the healer's.

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Originally Posted by ZhangoSqu

Is it just me, or do the MP costs for the Cure-spells seem unnecessarily high? I mean Cure II costs 75 MP? I mean I can see Cure (I) costing 20, Cure II between 40 and 50, Cure III around 75... but their costs in this patch are prohibitively expensive.

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we where definitely feeling it last night in the Darkhold, gonna take some getting used to for sure, I'm guessing they will make adjustments with upcoming patches if necessarily. my biggest concern is the enmity generated from curing, seems like the tanks and healers are gonna have a difficult time on their hands for a while while everyone adjusts to it.

The emnity system needs to be reviewed as well. So Tanks can actually keep hate and the healers can concentrate on the tanks. Since the tanks have abilites and skills to lower damage taken and etc.

And on the other hand, if the tank is taking too much damage, then maybe its better to move on weaker mobs for the time being. I'm not sure how this scales down so incase an 8-man party has been slaying down shit 20+ leves above theirs, they need to locate those 15+ mobs maybe. The exp will probably be a lot less, but if there's a steady flow with the fights it'll make up for it.

And I cannot stress this enough. There will be a lot of changes and fixes in the near future. Maybe they'll add some kind of exp-chaining system, so fight lower mobs is going to be worthwhile. Maybe they'll re-adjust the MP cost. Maybe they'll add more Regening possibilites or better defending skills for jobs.

We can only speculate for now and stick with the current system and keep giving feedback to the Dev Team instead saying "owwww just crap".^^

But people are right at some point. With a spell cost of 135 MP and a MP pool of lets say 1300 MP, this is an hard edge. Casting other spells like Prot, Shell, Spikes and stuff will wear that out even faster.
[Edit: GALKA RDM'S W R U!?!?!?!?]

But hey.. no matter what happens will get used to it. We just have to be patient and wait for a steady balancing by the Dev Team.

:O

Edit2: Oh and I'm not sure how I'd like if they changed the fix MP cost to %-cost. One advantage would be sure, that we can focus on Stats which rise the Cure Potency. So when all Spells have a %-Cost having 1000MP or 2000MP won't matter much.
But on the other hand I don't think they won't put a % cost on EVERY spell then. Some limitations have to be done actually.