This game is just way to hard...

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Originally Posted by Doo

Come on guy, you play this game too. How often do you even have LB3 up for healer to save everyone?

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More than many in Turn 1 and Levi EX.

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Originally Posted by Doo

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I don't just farm all day like others might do, I don't even do my beastmen quests let alone roulette everyday. I mostly run around, take screenies of areas and certain aspects of some spots I may find, craft, fish, gather, garden, sell stuff, go around to see my friends, talk to them, etc. I still have things to level and meld tbh so just capping via farms isn't my sole interest as a player. .-. (Yes all of that is fun to me and I am not Atma farming, don't need it anymore.)

There was more that I was gonna say but I found that I could careless to argue opinions here, why not just agree you like certain things about FFXI and just agree that some people do like FFXIV, how it is and how it takes less time for some stuff as well? By the way, Idc if you say gear is replaced because tbh, while FFXI has had over 3 expansions, FFXIV has had none yet. It's way too soon to say anything other than whats based off of two much needed patches, which had some content that should of been in game from launch or soon after. (CT, DF Chimera and Hydra etc.) :/

(Yes, I will still feel like there are downfalls in FFXI just as you feel there are downfalls in FFXIV. But lets just agree to disagree and leave it at that like adults?)

just please devs - take out of main quests ALL dungeons and trials with this stupid reflex dependent stuff /or this stipidity reflex dependent stuff out of this dungeons trials...

i belive over 70 % players hate

FFs games is TURN BASED RPG not action games.

Square Enix is mistaken a lot about what old Final Fantasy Fans looking for. Best example is coming FFXV... action packed not for old Final Fantasy Players.

Honestly - personally never played and plan to play action games... my gameplan is Turn Based.

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Originally Posted by Gormogon

More than many in Turn 1 and Levi EX.

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Maybe believable if you got bad parties often but if they were that bad then your lb wouldn't of matter since your party would lack the dps to do it.

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Originally Posted by Lillia

I don't just farm all day like others might do, I don't even do my beastmen quests let alone roulette everyday. I mostly run around, take screenies of areas and certain aspects of some spots I may find, craft, fish, gather, garden, sell stuff, go around to see my friends, talk to them, etc.

(Yes, I will still feel like there are downfalls in FFXI just as you feel there are downfalls in FFXIV. But lets just agree to disagree and leave it at that like adults?)

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You can do that stuff in FFXI as well as most mmos. You don't have to just grind necklaces all day. Can agree to disagree any time. You replied to me first and I clarify my pov. I can still enjoy FFXIV even though I feel it's flawed like how I can enjoy Dragon Age 2 and FF13 even though I felt the previous is better.

All these "hardcore" trials and dungeons are indeed a MEMORY GAME, no skill needed at all (except a good memory skill?) even a robot can do this trials if programed correctly, people likes to think they are very skillful for beating the hardest dungeons, but no, they just had memorized the battle pattern, thats it, and that's lame, sorry if your bubble burst.

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Originally Posted by KalSki

just please devs - take out of main quests ALL dungeons and trials with this stupid reflex dependent stuff /or this stipidity reflex dependent stuff out of this dungeons trials...

i belive over 70 % players hate

FFs games is TURN BASED RPG not action games.

Square Enix is mistaken a lot about what old Final Fantasy Fans looking for. Best example is coming FFXV... action packed not for old Final Fantasy Players.

Honestly - personally never played and plan to play action games... my gameplan is Turn Based.

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please go make your own turn based MMO, im sure it can fill its niche.

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Originally Posted by Dano

please go make your own turn based MMO, im sure it can fill its niche.

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He isn't wrong though. There is a reason why JRPGs became popular in the west.

By making it more action oriented, they pretty much make it like "everyone" else.

Heh. I just finished Dark Souls II a few days ago :)

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Originally Posted by Spyrit

I love how people simplified battles in ffxi, first consider this in order to deal damage in ffxi you had to memorize this
http://www.wilddragonchase.com/ffxi/NewSkillchain1.png

http://www.wilddragonchase.com/ffxi/NewSkillchain1.png for the readable version. The complexity from battles was not always in the battles, rather the complexity came from combat. And to date I still believe this was the best way to do combat in a mmo.

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You're ignoring the glacially slow pace of the XI combat system and complete lack of skill involved. Melee literally just waited until 100% TP and then popped one weaponskill. Rinse and repeat. Mages often had just a couple of spells to cast.

Skillchains were rarely used past a point unless you were a SAM or BLU (when it's just learning how to do two attacks in a row).

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Originally Posted by Raenryong

You're ignoring the glacially slow pace of the XI combat system and complete lack of skill involved. Melee literally just waited until 100% TP and then popped one weaponskill. Rinse and repeat. Mages often had just a couple of spells to cast.

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Then you where not around when people set up lvl.3 skillchains with 3+ people.

It was just after ToAU that it started to become the norm to just use it when ready. And that is because more people where able to get haste gear. Before that was only the norm in burn parties.

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Originally Posted by Amberion

Then you where not around when people set up lvl.3 skillchains with 3+ people.

It was just after ToAU that it started to become the norm to just use it when ready. And that is because more people where able to get haste gear. Before that was only the norm in burn parties.

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You forgot to mention timing Ancient Magic to coincide with said skillchain! And SATA, which required careful positioning to even execute! Ahh, nostalgia. But indeed, those were the days where skill was more of a requirement in battle rather than mashing keys.

As for those using the whole 'memory game' argument, I would like to point out that this is a video game. Everything is formulaic in video games, it matters not whether you're playing World of Warcraft, Final Fantasy XIII or Call of Duty. You can easily memorize the way enemies move, and how best to avoid them or their attacks. True "randomness" doesn't exist in computers yet, it's all following a set guideline and any indication of randomness is just a cleverly concealed set of rules. If you want a truly dynamic experience, play against other players or wait for Final Fantasy XXIV Quantum Edition. Please look forward to it :)

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Originally Posted by Amberion

Then you where not around when people set up lvl.3 skillchains with 3+ people.

It was just after ToAU that it started to become the norm to just use it when ready. And that is because more people where able to get haste gear. Before that was only the norm in burn parties.

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I was, and it was even slower and less skilful then.

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Originally Posted by Raenryong

I was, and it was even slower and less skilful then.

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I didn't think it got any less skillful than pressing autoattack and mashing your weaponskill macro when you get 100% TP. Let's be honest, in FFXI you don't even need to move unless you're a Thief.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

You forgot to mention timing Ancient Magic to coincide with said skillchain! And SATA, which required careful positioning to even execute! Ahh, nostalgia. But indeed, those were the days where skill was more of a requirement in battle rather than mashing keys.

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Skill was not required in FFXI. As far as combat goes, it likely has/had the easiest and simplest combat system in any MMO. Timing Ancient Magic wasn't hard, and SATA just required you to be able to move behind a mob every 50-60s or move behind a party member every 50-60s. Not hard in the slightest.

I can guarantee that despite your claims of this game being just "mashing keys", you won't be optimal.

EDIT: Maybe you're being sarcastic? I'm not sure - people argue that FFXI was skilful so often... apologies if you are!

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Originally Posted by Raenryong

I can guarantee that despite your claims of this game being just "mashing keys", you won't be optimal.

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Of course not, this game does require some thought behind your actions. You have skill rotations, you need to move to avoid AoE and each player has a role to fulfil. The 'mashing keys' was a reference to the current FFXI where skill has been replaced with 100% TP spam with little to no regard for aggro or any kind of special combat mechanics. Even most bosses barely require much of a strategy beyond 'hit it harder', though they did add some nice ones which swap between absorbing physical and magical damage during the fight.

As for SATA, it did genuinely require a degree of teamwork. Monks would provoke mobs to pull aggro from the Ninja tank while the Thief SATA'd Viper Bite or better and the Black Mage used a magic burst. There's literally no such teamwork in modern FFXI battles, certainly not XP fights, and I daresay there isn't even anything on that level in FFXIV either. So to say it doesn't require skill to get the timing of that down only implies that everything since requires even less.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

So to say it doesn't require skill to get the timing of that down only implies that everything since requires even less.

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Pre abyssea battle was slow for sure but it was way more diverse and complex than FFXIV. This games difficulty is mainly due to cheap gimmicks.

i really really hope is this a troll, seriously? this game is hard?? idk what are smoking but this game is so damn easy i can play it with my eyes close. i wish this game could had been alot harder because is so damn boring right now

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Originally Posted by Doo

Pre abyssea battle was slow for sure but it was way more diverse and complex than FFXIV. This games difficulty is mainly due to cheap gimmicks.

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Give me an example of complexity. Skillchains are not complex.

A standard rotation on any of the DPS classes contains more variation and skill than anything in FFXI.

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Originally Posted by Oriana

i really really hope is this a troll, seriously? this game is hard?? idk what are smoking but this game is so damn easy i can play it with my eyes close. i wish this game could had been alot harder because is so damn boring right now

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What kind of difficulty are you looking for?

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Originally Posted by Raenryong

Give me an example of complexity. Skillchains are not complex.

A standard rotation on any of the DPS classes contains more variation and skill than anything in FFXI.

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You know, I have to ask. What do you consider skillful? Since we obviously have different opinion on that.

As for complexity of skillchains. Let's see, you had element of of each weapon skill, which in turn creates an effect "skillchain" of 1 or more elements. Then the mob in question has 1 or 2 weak and strong elements that you should take into account. Add to that then the MB that needed to hit within 3 sec I think it was.

How is a DPS class rotation in this game more complex then that?

Because there's nothing skilful about that - the timing window is extremely long, and it just requires memorisation of specific skill combinations. You cannot really adapt to it as interactions do not proceed predictably. Mob weaknesses again are simply knowledge.

DPS in this game have loose rotations with a much tighter timing than FFXI (granted, it's still very easy compared to games like Rift or WoW). You are forced to vary your approach based on number of enemies, disconnects, mechanics, etc - this requiring you to change your ability order as you go.

In FFXI, multiple mobs (unless you cleaving, a BLM or a BLU) made no difference to anyone but someone trying to CC them, and every fight is approached identically. Engage, afk to 100 tp, WS, repeat. Throw in skillchains if you want but they don't actually increase your damage in most cases. Unless the two melee are equally geared etc, you are just weakening the stronger melee for more than the skillchain gains you. BLM is also far weaker than another melee so trying to capitalise on skillchains is counterproductive.

This game isn't difficult by any stretch of the imagination. It seems like you want all of the Coil/Extreme modes to be as difficult as Toto-Rak.

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Originally Posted by Raenryong

A standard rotation on any of the DPS classes contains more variation and skill than anything in FFXI.

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You never deviate from your standard rotation much. Skillchains you have to figure out what elemental weakness the mob has and know what element your dds skillchain creates to burst for more damage. Rotations is a solo deal while skillchains can involve your entire party so timing is needed between your party members. Spamming the same rotation over and over isn't complex. The skillful part of FFXIV comes from the terrible dodging mechanics, the bad camera angles, and gimmicks. What do you think players have the most trouble with in this game? Dodging why is that? Even though they have done the fight many times before over and over.

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Originally Posted by Doo

The skillful part of FFXIV comes from the terrible dodging mechanics, the bad camera angles, and gimmicks. What do you think players have the most trouble with in this game? Dodging why is that? Even though they have done the fight many times before over and over.

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Dodging is only the elementary, and very basic skill in FFXIV. It's what people do around the dodging that leaves a wide margin of skill. People can dodge, and still perform poorly. You claim that there's not much deviation from ones standard rotation, and while that may be true in a bubble. The ability to maintain what you do around all the dodging is where skillfull play really comes in.

This game may not be the most difficult, but XI is certainly not the dog you want to pit against XIV. And mentioning skill chains as a comparison of skill should be insulting to anyone who's played both XI and XIV excessively.

Too*
/letters

And, no, it really isn't.

I find FF14 to be the easiest MMO in terms of endgame mechanics. The problem comes from other players and many of the one shot mechanics (or the get hit really hard then its followed by a medium size attack which is enough to kill someone). The main problem in victory is, if they can't dodge, you don't win.

FF11 wasn't any harder than ff14 but the battle mechanics were more intuitive and diverse and it doesn't lock parties to mechanics that's doesn't make sense which takes away some fun from battles. FF14 needs to be less dependant on the AoE lines...feels too scripted. Instances (too many) prevent a lot of diversity from happening...

There's no sense of danger in Eorzea. Eldeime Necropolis, castle oztroja, yutunga jungle, xarcabard...made your adventure feel more like an adventure especially when done alone.

choked on a dorito reading the title of thread.

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Originally Posted by StubHub

The ability to maintain what you do around all the dodging is where skillfull play really comes in.

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I agree with this. Rotations itself are not complex. It's just spamming a couple of skills in order. Skillful play is just pretty much memorization though that's why I'm willing to bet that most of the players that beat hard content watched videos. Everyone pretty much uses the same exact tactics on every fight.

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Originally Posted by StubHub

And mentioning skill chains as a comparison of skill should be insulting to anyone who's played both XI and XIV excessively.

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It wasn't a comparison of skills rather more diverse and complex.

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Originally Posted by Ti_Dus

FF11 wasn't any harder than ff14 but the battle mechanics were more intuitive and diverse and it doesn't lock parties to mechanics that's doesn't make sense which takes away some fun from battles. FF14 needs to be less dependant on the AoE lines...feels too scripted. Instances (too many) prevent a lot of diversity from happening...

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Yes, FFXIV you're pretty much locked into one style of play and one way of gearing. Everyone pretty much does the exact same thing. Even when to use your abilities is pre-determined, pop all your cds here, use LB there.

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Originally Posted by Ti_Dus

There's no sense of danger in Eorzea. Eldeime Necropolis, castle oztroja, yutunga jungle, xarcabard...made your adventure feel more like an adventure especially when done alone.

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Sneak/Invis. Only Arrapago Reef was really dangerous.

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I agree with this. Rotations itself are not complex. It's just spamming a couple of skills in order. Skillful play is just pretty much memorization though that's why I'm willing to bet that most of the players that beat hard content watched videos. Everyone pretty much uses the same exact tactics on every fight.

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You don't play any dps! Paladin is also the easiest job in the game by a long shot.

I have to agree FFXI was one of the easiest MMOs to play. Look at Coil Turn 6-9 nothing in FFXI takes that level of teamwork, coordination and raid awareness.

Skill chains are not complicated it involved looking at a chart and using the same skill chain over and over because you exped on the same mobs. From ToAU till currently people stopped using skillchains altogether because it was a dps loss to not use TP as soon as you get 100.

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Originally Posted by Raenryong

You don't play any dps! Paladin is also the easiest job in the game by a long shot.

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Last time I checked Smn is dps. I don't like playing dds anymore because they are a dime a dozen and not as important as support classes. Tank is actually harder to me because one mess up = party wipe while dd one mess up = do less damage. My main is healer btw.

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Originally Posted by Doo

Last time I checked Smn is dps. I don't like playing dds anymore because they are a dime a dozen and not as important as support classes. Tank is actually harder to me because one mess up = party wipe while dd one mess up = do less damage. My main is healer btw.

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SMN is not rotation based is what I meant, sorry. Aside from the opener it's largely a priority system. I like playing DPS because most people are really bad at them and DPS checks in this game are harsh relative to the other checks, so high powered DPS is extremely crucial.

It's interesting though, the amount of bad players in this game seems to be higher than any other MMO I've played, yet this is also the easiest. How?

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Originally Posted by KoujiMoreno

It's interesting though, the amount of bad players in this game seems to be higher than any other MMO I've played, yet this is also the easiest. How?

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This game attracts an extremely casual and anti-competitive crowd. Just look at the amount of vitriol any suggestion of PvP receives, and the fact that topics like "best gear should not come from raiding" even exist. In any other MMO, this would definitely not be the case.

Plus people underestimate the difficulty in this game. Even if we assume that the number of people who can flawlessly execute mechanics is high (which personal experience suggests it isn't), there is a vast difference between executing a mechanic and doing so efficiently - can you dodge aoes with as minimum a leeway as possible to maximise dps? Do you let GL fall on MNK? Interrupt casts on BLM? Etc. Good and bad play all add up.

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Originally Posted by KoujiMoreno

It's interesting though, the amount of bad players in this game seems to be higher than any other MMO I've played, yet this is also the easiest. How?

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That's what happens when you feed players fetch it quests, echo buffs, Fate zerging, and straight forward dungeons. Then have end game heavily rely on all 8 players to be able to memorize entire rotations/phases, hard dps checks, and unforgiving dodge mechanics.

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Originally Posted by KoujiMoreno

It's interesting though, the amount of bad players in this game seems to be higher than any other MMO I've played, yet this is also the easiest. How?

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Average raid size is 8. Anyone who raided 10 mans in WoW knows that the fewer players you have, the more individual responsibility each player has. So, that one person who screws up and dies hurts a lot more in XIV's 8 mans than it would in, say, a WoW 25 man. Couple this with a playerbase that seems by and large new to MMOs in general and it's not completely surprising you have many unskilled players. Whether they stay that way is up to them.

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Originally Posted by KoujiMoreno

It's interesting though, the amount of bad players in this game seems to be higher than any other MMO I've played, yet this is also the easiest. How?

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Interesting to call everyone bad player just because of wipe...
So often i see good players raiding for hours without any fail, then just one short moment of not beeing focused and BAM whole group wipe...
Thats the kind of game we play here!

The difficulty in FFXIV does not come in that it is "hard" to do. It's quite easy to understand how to dodge and time things out and the boss tricks. I know HOW to do the fights, I just don't WANT to do the fights - not the way they are set up. And the only reason I even fight is so I can get higher-level gear so things at lower levels are easier. I like to level up and be stronger than the fights so I can enjoy doing them without as much chaos. The difficulty in FFXIV is that it everything is "go go go, OMG!!! panic!" Every boss fight since Titan has been just the same feeling of rush and panic to me, and I don't like that. I don't enjoy or look forward to these fights because they are just more of the same.