Best Gear in Coil needs to end

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Originally Posted by Yoohre_WildRiver

before on the FC schedule there would be moogle mondays, ifrit wenesdays garuda thursday .. hamlet fridays ... chocobo escort/spiritbonding sunday.. all endgame

now is just coil coil coil coil levi ex coil coil coil..... levi ex

this is what i mean.. no that coil is bad.. but it gets repetitive. having more horizontal content would give people a break to see and battle other content and not get tired of repeating.

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Good post Yoohree. :) I remember Hamlet Days in 1.0... for all the problems it had, it was still something interesting, especially when helping out friends and fellow LS members that never cleared it (or needed their drops).

An alternate way to gear to i110 is what is missing from this patch.

An alternate way of obtaining oils and sands would silence a lot of the progression haters.

Coil2 is much less forgiving then coil1 and it has nothing to do with gear checks. (Yes gear will make the DPS checks easier). T7 even with a 25% echo won't be doable for 95% of the population.

CT2 should have sands /oils. It would be very popular, will give high end groups a faster method to gear and give lower groups i110 progression. (Assuming the same lockout that's one i110 piece per person per week)

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Originally Posted by Kiara

Ultimately, with more variety, it makes Final Fantasy XIV a better game.

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I think it is important to recognize that almost all of the things you mentioned were not available to do at XI's launch. Almost all of those were added with expansions. NA/EU launch included RoZ and so it seemed like we had more at launch. It will be interesting to see how our first expansion plays out here.

This game does feel pretty linear. Theme park mmo limitations coupled with gear attained through tome collection and weekly lockouts. They need to bring side content, that's fun ( not beast tribes xD ) and that doesn't really end very fast ( I think pvp doesn't count here as pvp in ff is pretty much an acquired taste and extremely unpopular, and imo, the most rubbish pvp in any mmo ) Atma/Animus, for all its faults, was actually a step in the right direction in some senses. Something as time consuming, but more inventive /imaginative/creative would be a triump for se to truly set it apart from wow and its family of clones.

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Originally Posted by Kiara

Good post Yoohree. :) I remember Hamlet Days in 1.0... for all the problems it had, it was still something interesting, especially when helping out friends and fellow LS members that never cleared it (or needed their drops).

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What is stopping you from doing Coils Monday, Moogle Tuesday, Leviathan Wednesday, Extreme Primal Thursday, Treasure Hunting Friday, Crystal Tower Saturday?

I'm ok with the harder content dropping the best gear. I disliked the welfare system of handing out af2 via myth that we had up until 2.2. People need to realize like mentioned before ARR is not even a year old, with 0 expansions. People arguing that XI had a ton more content as previously mentioned by LD Omlette did not have this content at release. NA release had the first expansion already included in the game. The amount of content they are putting out every three months a patch is amazing imo. Yes it's a pay to play game, yes we should expect that kind of content.

I would like to see more options for raids, I would like to see different instances besides just adding new turns to coil/ct, and I'm sure we'll get a whole new area/end game time sync like the aforementioned sky/sea/dyanmis once we get our first major expansion. I wish we'd see some open world NM's but yeah I know that's just a pipe dream.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

What is stopping you from doing Coils Monday, Moogle Tuesday, Leviathan Wednesday, Extreme Primal Thursday, Treasure Hunting Friday, Crystal Tower Saturday?

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Moogle can be farmed in a week or less and be done with, extreme primals dont drop anything of worth to those doing second coil, same with CT, whats the point of treasure hunting? Which leaves only leviathan ex and coil 2.

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Originally Posted by SirTaint

T7 even with a 25% echo won't be doable for 95% of the population.

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LOL I hope that 95% streams it, including voice chat.

I think the game is finally getting to the point where it is reaching a balance. Sure the top of the top gear still only comes from one place and I'd like to see those sets spread out between a few areas (thinking dynamic set up. Each class has a drop or two from a specific dungeon that would be as long as turn 1-5) and you need to clear all the areas to get the full set, but there are lots of ways to get ilvl 90-110 gear now. Once the next CT comes out there will be even more, I assume as there is no word on what ilvl it has going to be, which will make even more ways to get geared to raid second coil. And isn't that the end goal?

The absolute top tier of gear in the game should absolutely be gated behind the hardest content in the game. Do people not understand that the rewards should match the effort required to get them?

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

The absolute top tier of gear in the game should absolutely be gated behind the hardest content in the game. Do people not understand that the rewards should match the effort required to get them?

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According to the FF14 mantra, you need to type that at least 30,000 more times before it becomes validated. No copy and paste either.

And if you can type it backwards there is a 10% bonus.

Do what I did. Take a month off. I came back to a plethora of 2.2/2.25 content.

It'd be nice if there was some actually difficult 4-man content, or if CT and Coil didn't do this weird staggering thing where new CT is released after new Coil and gives worse gear solely to 'bridge the gap' for players who need a small gear boost / don't want to wait for full i100, but the players who are already progressing through Coil get nothing new to do in the patch where CT comes out except for vanity runs and one or two new primal fights that MIGHT be worth doing but the gear is all a limited pool of sidegrades for slots that you were already filling in the latest Coil.

Blegh.

On the other hand, casual players have plenty to do now.

I demand the best gear in the game be dropped by the lvl4 Sheep outside Limsa.

I need the best gear in the game to fight the lvl8 crabs I come across later. Also make me able to equip lvl50 gear at lvl10.

My logic is undeniable. Give in to my demands!

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

The absolute top tier of gear in the game should absolutely be gated behind the hardest content in the game. Do people not understand that the rewards should match the effort required to get them?

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This is absolutely 110% true. My only issue with the way things have been designed is that you create two unique sets of i110 gear but you gate them both behind 1 individual piece of content. Put the i110 high allagan gear in coil, but give us something else that is equally as challenging for unidentified allagan, sands, and oils.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

The absolute top tier of gear in the game should absolutely be gated behind the hardest content in the game. Do people not understand that the rewards should match the effort required to get them?

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I agree but it needs to have more variety. 4 bosses every 6 months is kind of disappointing. We need more then coil. Things like sea, sky, force pop NM, fraction leves, etc. I do not mind the best gear coming from the hardest content..just give us more choices then 4 turns which have lockouts. Horizontal progression would be great. Not to go too off topic but could we have our 1.0 stats back yet too? :P

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Originally Posted by Otoha

Moogle can be farmed in a week or less and be done with, extreme primals dont drop anything of worth to those doing second coil, same with CT, whats the point of treasure hunting? Which leaves only leviathan ex and coil 2.

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You are just jumping around the argument. The point is you can make nights for specific events during the week. Treasure hunting is a nice accumulation of gil, especially if you get a Bluebird and with a group of people accumulating gil from their maps.

More content specifically for vanity gear!
Doesn't have to have good stats or ilvl, maybe for completing some kind of achievements.

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Originally Posted by L-D-Omlette

I think it is important to recognize that almost all of the things you mentioned were not available to do at XI's launch. Almost all of those were added with expansions. NA/EU launch included RoZ and so it seemed like we had more at launch. It will be interesting to see how our first expansion plays out here.

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Hi L-D,

Definitely. I know XI had the benefit of multiple Expansions, but also in 2014, there are increased expectations now.

The very first Racing Games on the market had just 1 Car to race; now Racing Games have 400+ Cars from makers around the world and prototypes, all available at launch. Fighting games started with a paltry # of characters (8). Nowadays, all the top Fighting Games release with rosters that are 20+.

Part of the whole situation is that Yoshi P put XIV in this predicament: Remaking the world for 2.0 is wonderful, but he chose to rush everyone to 50 ASAP, and made it so you can rush through the basic Relic quest in 2.0, etc. So he painted his team into the corner of having ~90% of the content made for 2.0 be blown through in the matter of a few days or weeks (depending on how much time you put in), and with nothing else to do except the 1 End Game Dungeon.

I find it funny how people are forgetting the next tier of Crystal Tower is to be released in 2.3; we don't know what the iLvl is for any of the gear it drops, but it will hopefully give more i100-110 gear for us to play with (which will hopefully be nice, because some of that gear is pretty terrible). The new CT tier will also give us the power to make our own raid groups, so we don't have to queue with randoms and possibly jerks.

There's also Novus weapon upgrades, which will hopefully suck less than the FATE and Myth grind that is the Atma/Animus upgrades.

Why should i110/i115 gear or sands/oil drop outside of coil? Give me a convincing reason why people who aren't raiding coil 2 need this gear.

You don't even need it for t6-8.

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Originally Posted by Nahara

I find it funny how people are forgetting the next tier of Crystal Tower is to be released in 2.3; we don't know what the iLvl is for any of the gear it drops, but it will hopefully give more i100-110 gear for us to play with (which will hopefully be nice, because some of that gear is pretty terrible). The new CT tier will also give us the power to make our own raid groups, so we don't have to queue with randoms and possibly jerks.

There's also Novus weapon upgrades, which will hopefully suck less than the FATE and Myth grind that is the Atma/Animus upgrades.

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It will b i100

The best gear is pretty much every MMO ever (with a few exceptions at least) has always come from raids...XIV follows the same trend.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

The best gear is pretty much every MMO ever (with a few exceptions at least) has always come from raids...XIV follows the same trend.

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Some games do the crafting route or random world drop. There's more than just raid = best gear always.

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Originally Posted by KoujiMoreno

Some games do the crafting route or random world drop. There's more than just raid = best gear always.

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True, didn't take that into account. But not all of them have been the "best gear" either.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

What is stopping you from doing Coils Monday, Moogle Tuesday, Leviathan Wednesday, Extreme Primal Thursday, Treasure Hunting Friday, Crystal Tower Saturday?

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Nothing but Coil and Levi Ex provides any reasonable return for time invested? Maybe?

I'm truly not against the High Allagan gear coming from Coil, I would like alternative methods to acquiring the Sands/Oil for the Weathered Gear however, for BiS reasons. Not every piece of HA is BiS across the board, so it's still a mix and match system depending on what your build is aimed at.

But there should always be an incentive for people who do the high end content, in this case coil, in this case the high allagan gear. Eventually I'll do it as well, my thing is, I don't care about 'world first' crap, so it's not my main motivation. Regardless, it would be nice to continue to progress myself in other ways, in preparation for the next stage of content that does get released.

In before sands oil added to new CT.

I really think making both the new ilvl 110 armor come from coil is a bit....stupid. really if anything we should be allowed to get this through dungeons as before. No one complained before

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Originally Posted by sylent09

I really think making both the new ilvl 110 armor come from coil is a bit....stupid. really if anything we should be allowed to get this through dungeons as before. No one complained before

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Just because no one complained doesn't mean it wasn't going to be changed. Most likely reason it worked that way was due to CT being delayed and bridging the gap. But now they don't need to.

You're basically saying you want equivalent gear from non equivalent content.

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Originally Posted by SirTaint

CT2 should have sands /oils. It would be very popular, will give high end groups a faster method to gear and give lower groups i110 progression. (Assuming the same lockout that's one i110 piece per person per week)

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I'm really hoping this is the way they go. Coil gets the sands & oils first, and everyone else can get theirs via CT they just have to wait a bit for it.

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Originally Posted by Prototype909

4 Man Dungeons - Give drops that would've been useful a full patch or two ago and even then they add chaffe in the form of the crafting drops so that you can't get them

CT - Is a joke and is balanced in such a way that it always will be because SE is afraid of making 24 man groups have to coordinate.

Coil - BiS progression, whether you want soldiery upgrades or Coil loot this is your only option

Levi and Moggle EX - Most people don't care about Moggle EX because it's a strictly inferior drop to Soldiery/Coil loot and will be outclassed. Levi I'll give you but that's ONE fight that people seem to have interest in.

Other Content - What is there really. Beastmen dailies for vanity minions/mounts...? Atma/Animus farming because that's so fun. No seriously, what else is there. Next to nothing, that's what.

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Did you just post a whole bunch of content and give your subjective reason of why it's not worth doing? The content is there, whether you want to do it or not is an entirely different topic, so no, it's not "next to nothing".I think you and a lot more people will enjoy this game more when you stop seeing content as just the reward that you'll get after you beat the fight. As for your CT comment, I hate easy faceroll stuff as well, but I honestly fear for my life if they made a hard 24 man when 70% of 8 man groups can't get their act together.

There are also other things to do, like work on leveling/gearing other classes. If you've done all this and feel burned out, perhaps it's a good idea to take a break. This game isn't even a year old yet, and a generous amount of content is being dished out with every patch.

If anything they should add one piece of content with each Coil version that is nothing more than gloating and a achievement reward maybe even a minion or mount where needing an average il of 110-115 is needed for just a chance at beating it.

I think the issue with the strongest loot coming from coil is that once obtained it does nothing more than just make Coil easier since there is no other content which outranks Coil. If you simply add a battlefield with a higher difficulty than Coil it would at least add that little bit of extra challenge that some players may want and just be another thing for players to achieve just for bragging rights.

I would totally prefer something like that.

End Game raiding with gear progression is counter productive in the long run. Especially when drama and elitism getting out of control.

It simply becomes an endless cycle where new raids need to be introduced making your old gear obsolete since you want the new gear because it has a higher ilevel and offers more/better stats. Since people can't last 4 weeks with their high end gear without getting impatient and bored.

Would prefer diversity, variety, and continuation to gear.

My proposal here is getting armor to be upgradeable like the relic weapons. AF -> AF 1 -> AF 2. Allagan -> High Allangan. CT -> CT2. Raiding is the quickest method. Progressive grinding the 2nd fastest. Quest line through Primals 3rd fastest. Gamblers farming through open world grinding and crafting gear extremely grindy.

Would be nice to see set bonuses on gear.

Materia needs to have impact like FFVII's Materia did.

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Originally Posted by Airget

If anything they should add one piece of content with each Coil version that is nothing more than gloating and a achievement reward maybe even a minion or mount where needing an average il of 110-115 is needed for just a chance at beating it.

I think the issue with the strongest loot coming from coil is that once obtained it does nothing more than just make Coil easier since there is no other content which outranks Coil. If you simply add a battlefield with a higher difficulty than Coil it would at least add that little bit of extra challenge that some players may want and just be another thing for players to achieve just for bragging rights.

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I would just prefer new and fun achievements. That's what gives hardcore raiders something to do on WoW at the moment.

For example:
Defeat Rafflesia without anybody in the party taking damage from a briar patch.
Which would require the person targeted to be eaten every single time, giving the boss stacking determination and making it much harder to do.
or another example from the same turn...
Defeat Rafflesia without anybody in the party being devoured.
Which would require the person with honey-glazed to NOT get rid of his debuff, meaning you would have constant spawns of wasps throughout the fight.

Both of these would not be things you would attempt on day 1 of your raiding. You'd want to be more geared and experienced before you tried to get achievements like these. It would give people something to do with their new gear.

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Originally Posted by Zaft

I would just prefer new and fun achievements. That's what gives hardcore raiders something to do on WoW at the moment.

For example:
Defeat Rafflesia without anybody in the party taking damage from a briar patch.
Which would require the person targeted to be eaten every single time, giving the boss stacking determination and making it much harder to do.
or another example from the same turn...
Defeat Rafflesia without anybody in the party being devoured.
Which would require the person with honey-glazed to NOT get rid of his debuff, meaning you would have constant spawns of wasps throughout the fight.

Both of these would not be things you would attempt on day 1 of your raiding. You'd want to be more geared and experienced before you tried to get achievements like these. It would give people something to do with their new gear.

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I do miss these.

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Originally Posted by Aaron_T

They need to find a way to make this game not like every other MMO out there.
You want people to progress in player skill and not just gear but then again
one reason a lot of people get fed up with MMOs is because of the mundane gear grind.
Weekly caps keep people interested sure.
But I 100% agree there needs to be more than one way to progress not just gear.

"How do I become a great Adventurer like you Aaron Tee?"
"Buy gear from Rowena"

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He has a point. Progression is not only measured in gear.
In XI fame and merit points were always there as an option among ither things.

I feel like the fame system of this game doesn't have enough weight as a whole.
Crafting system is good but there's no progression after 50 and you reach the cap in a few play sessions.

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Originally Posted by Zaft

I would just prefer new and fun achievements. That's what gives hardcore raiders something to do on WoW at the moment.

For example:
Defeat Rafflesia without anybody in the party taking damage from a briar patch.
Which would require the person targeted to be eaten every single time, giving the boss stacking determination and making it much harder to do.
or another example from the same turn...
Defeat Rafflesia without anybody in the party being devoured.
Which would require the person with honey-glazed to NOT get rid of his debuff, meaning you would have constant spawns of wasps throughout the fight.

Both of these would not be things you would attempt on day 1 of your raiding. You'd want to be more geared and experienced before you tried to get achievements like these. It would give people something to do with their new gear.

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Careful, people are gonna say you're trying to turn this game into WoW!

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Originally Posted by Zaft

Defeat Rafflesia without anybody in the party taking damage from a briar patch.

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Already exists, See: Line of Sight method. No one gets devoured, and no one takes briar damage. Just requires timing.

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Defeat Rafflesia without anybody in the party being devoured.

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Sounds obnoxious. But easy at higher-gear levels since you could burn the bees so fast.

Just my two cents on this: You do not need BiS gear for anything other than Coil. Nothing in the game requires that much skill, time, patience, or the amount of gear, other than Coil. The weathered items should suit people just fine until they have access to Coil. Honestly, it isn't necessary to have those items. Sure, they're nice, but they aren't needed. 2.2 was pushed more towards the raiders, which should be expected. 2.3 on the other hand, will be pushed more towards the casual players like myself until I get a static for Coil. It's alternating content until Coil and CT are both over, and then it will switch to something else. If BG showed us anything, it's that even the hardest content in the game can be cleared with the gear you already have. As I said, my two cents and my opinion. I'm prepared for flames :P.