Raise/Ressurect too low

this thread i no no approve. delete pls. kkthxbb

Seriously people, OP stated a thread that he thinks Raise at Lvl 14 is early, and he recommended his opinion 25+ is better. I feel that way too and I agree with OP. What about these all hate posts, like stfu, sh*ts, etc. Just because of this opinion ? So much insults.for on-game opinion ? What is wrong with this forum, I ask myself and I ask you. I know you all like easy modes, but there are people who dont. And if these people state their opinion here, all is wrong. Meh.

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Originally Posted by Synthesis

Seriously people, OP stated a thread that he thinks Raise at Lvl 14 is early, and he recommended his opinion 25+ is better. I feel that way too and I agree with OP. What about these all hate posts, like stfu, sh*ts, etc. Just because of this opinion ? So much insults.for on-game opinion ? What is wrong with this forum, I ask myself and I ask you. I know you all like easy modes, but there are people who dont. And if these call their opinion here, all is wrong by you. Meh.

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If either of you could explain very clearly how this makes things easier than simply hitting return and running from an aether camp, I don't think anyone would have a problem. He's not replying to anyone's reasoning other than offering vague analogies which have nothing to do with the subject. I also ask myself what is wrong with some on this forum, though probably for different reasons to you xD

too low? No!

Recast timers are plain Bullcrap imo, wth happens in a complete party wipe with only 1-2 healers?
it will take...what? 10+ min to raise everyone? unless melee's have the spell aswell.

Dont even think this lil problem wont show up during the dungeons, atleast from looking at that Dungeon video.

I rather wish they added reraise (atleast for mages) and shorten the recast time on the raise spells by 1min or so.
AoE Raise-ga might be abit over the top thou. (thou i wouldnt complain having it)

I'm sure they have a valid reason as to why its such a low level. They're probably going to make the game more dangerous once its in a fixed condition. IMO :D

Not sure if this has been mentioned but having raise at 14 gives accessability for lower levels to do dungeons. If they hadn't lowered it then as it stands if there is a party of people with only level 30ish jobs in the dungeon, if a member died that member would have no way of continuing, pretty much meaning the party would be screwed.

We can close this thread now, ok thanks.

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Originally Posted by Laiferr

If either of you could explain very clearly how this makes things easier than simply hitting return and running from an aether camp, I don't think anyone would have a problem.

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Well, its pretty much same at these low ranks. Return / Raise :-) so its not really big deal.
What I meant is the joy that you earned raise skill. Like cool finally raise lvl @ 26. Now you hit one leve run from lvl 1 .) and ding you have got this. I think this was the only thing -> An Earn. Which would benefit you later anyway if you continue play after R14 Hh

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Originally Posted by Req

We can close this thread now, ok thanks.

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What? no wait....

how long does it take to get to lvl 20? 3-4 hrs? people not gonna know they got raise till they chk the spells list when they are bored.

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Originally Posted by Dyne

Seriously, rank 14 is a slap on the face of everyone that worked hard to get it at rank 38. That's even easier than getting cure II. Rank 14 is like an hour or less of leveling. They should have made it rank 25 or rank 30.

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People will find anything to complain about. Due to how the death penalty works now, it is necessary for Raise to be taken down to level 14. Also, Raise 2 is at lv.38 and it is exclusive to CON only, also Rebirth. Why are we complaining?

There will always be milestones to reach. And let's be honest, Raise isn't much of one in this game. I can see it in FFXI, because it actually is useful. But in XIV it is merely a convenience, not really a spell I would consider a milestone. Hell I consider Protect and Shell to be far more milestone spells.

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Originally Posted by Synthesis

Well, its pretty much same at these low ranks. Return / Raise :-) so its not really big deal.
What I meant is the joy that you earned raise skill. Like cool finally raise lvl @ 26. Now you hit one leve run from lvl 1 .) and ding you have got this. I think this was the only thing -> An Earn. Which would benefit you later anyway if you continue play after R14 Hh

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If I can understand what you are saying correctly then I do sort of agree with you, in that you do hit level 14 too quickly, and would be getting raise very quickly in the game. Personally, though, I don't think that's an issue with raise being too low, but rather the leveling curve is not right. For me, I would like to see a steady increase in the amount of exp needed, to the point that at rank 10 it is more beneficial for you to team up with others to start ranking up. Then, bam, you hit 14 and have raise - perfect, because now you've been partying for a few levels and the spell is necessary.

; ; lol why are people complaining about a 5min recast spell called "Raise" being to low level when
in fact it would be hell of alot faster just to homepoint if it's a party wipe.

Besides raise raises a party member, not the caster it self so whats the point in complaining about this?

If anything should be complained about it's the recast time, especially for dungeon raids or w/e you wanna call it.

5 minutes is good. You have 2x raise dont forget THM, conj. + Dont do senseless things, no one has to die. I like 5 min CD. its ok.

I must admit that I disagreed with setting Raise & Resurrect spells at level 14. It seemed way too low.

But after pushing my FFXI sensibilities aside, and actually listening to Cairdeas, ChiefCurrahee, Petori, Kilta_Firelotus, Anonymoose, Raze, Firon, Zahak, AlexNiculaie, Sonic_the_Hedgehog, ShinChuck, Renegade, and Laiferr ... I have to agree with them.

Raise at 14 is not the end of the world. It does indicate that the Development Team has not abandoned the concept of flexibility in the Armory System. That inherent flexibility, in general, has always been the source of potential abuse regardless of the spell or ability. But with proper balance, such risks can be mitigated.

In my mind, the more important question is not what level Raise is, but how many action points does it cost? If it stays at 2 AP, the Armory System's flexibility starts pushing against the request made by us for Class distinctiveness. We can have both, but it does have to be balanced ... or one negates the other.

SO my question to the community (since the Development Team declined to weigh in on this) is ... What should the AP costs be for these new Raise/Resurrect/Rebirth spells?

Well id agree with you Synthesis however there's one small problem,
most wipes end up killing the healer too, wich as of yet dont have a re-raise spell
to raise him/herself with and therefore rendering the Raise spell useless.

(unless by some miracle the healer/mage survives an onslaught)

Either way a full party would take what? 8x 5min to raise correct. 40min / devided in half
if you have the thm raises too. so 20min?

Edit:
Not to mention the 60min time limit in the dungeon that might be
abit of a "Cutting it Close" moment because the raise recast timers.
The low level dungeon, the healers will get hell with possible only1 raise spell to their abilities.
(Unless they they level thm too, also considering the level factor of the entire party ofc)

lol...ohboy...im looking forward to this.

(Havent played full party for a long time so correct me if im wrong)

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Originally Posted by Laughlyn

; ; lol why are people complaining about a 5min recast spell called "Raise" being to low level when
in fact it would be hell of alot faster just to homepoint if it's a party wipe.

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Well, wanted to point out that there's the possibility of the dungeons having NO home point at all. As in, you return = you are removed from the instance and cannot return. In that case, having raise readily available at lower levels is pretty much required.

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Originally Posted by Laughlyn

; ; lol why are people complaining about a 5min recast spell called "Raise" being to low level when
in fact it would be hell of alot faster just to homepoint if it's a party wipe.

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Well, wanted to point out that there's the possibility of the dungeons having NO home point at all. As in, you return = you are removed from the instance and cannot return. In that case, having raise readily available at lower levels is pretty much required.

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Originally Posted by Laughlyn

Well id agree with you Synthesis however there's one small problem,
most wipes end up killing the healer too, wich as of yet dont have a re-raise spell
to raise him/herself with and therefore rendering the Raise spell useless.

(unless by some miracle the healer/mage survives an onslaught)

Either way a full party would take what? 8x 5min to raise correct. 40min / devided in half
if you have the thm raises too. so 20min?

lol...ohboy...im looking forward to this.

(Havent played full party for a long time so correct me if im wrong)

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Fow now I dont speculate and I dont want to about how party will be wiped for 40 minutes. We will see during gameplay itself. If thats bad, and this will create problems - which I believe it will not. Because there is always return, chocobos soon + new rebalance could always be done by SE if they find it harsh towards players (more hating threads -,-). However in current state as I mentioned I see no problem with this.

edit : Everyone will have got raise on theirs bars from R14 Mages.

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Originally Posted by AdvancedWind

Well, wanted to point out that there's the possibility of the dungeons having NO home point at all. As in, you return = you are removed from the instance and cannot return. In that case, having raise readily available at lower levels is pretty much required.

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Thats true, but useless if the player with Raise dies and has to HP too. lol

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Originally Posted by Laughlyn

Well id agree with you Synthesis however there's one small problem,
most wipes end up killing the healer too, wich as of yet dont have a re-raise spell
to raise him/herself with and therefore rendering the Raise spell useless.

(unless by some miracle the healer/mage survives an onslaught)

Either way a full party would take what? 8x 5min to raise correct. 40min / devided in half
if you have the thm raises too. so 20min?

Edit:
Not to mention the 60min time limit in the dungeon that might be
abit of a "Cutting it Close" moment because the raise recast timers.
The low level dungeon, the healers will get hell with possible only1 raise spell to their abilities.
(Unless they they level thm too, also considering the level factor of the entire party ofc)

lol...ohboy...im looking forward to this.

(Havent played full party for a long time so correct me if im wrong)

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At the same time, most people will have leveled CON to 14 just for Raise. You raise one person, then he raises the next one, and so on. That is assuming everyone in your party will have Raise set on their bar.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

At the same time, most people will have leveled CON to 14 just for Raise. You raise one person, then he raises the next one, and so on. That is assuming everyone in your party will have Raise set on their bar.

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Yes, and that atleast 1 member survies or they will be no raising at all.

If only mage HP to run back in to raise everyone else it will take several minutes.
Time that could have been spent on making everyone HP'ing and save time.

Also dont forget the weakend effect that mage will have making spells even longer to cast.
Unless you wanna wait for your death-penalty to wear off.

Anywayz, i would like to see a solution to this problem.

Dont go kicking my bucket for telling things that will eventually happen and people start complaining about this specific issue in 1month or so. :x

my quick solution would be Re-raise spell or earring / necklace w/e.
Something have either been missed out on or over-looked..

i complain a lot....but damn...really this is what you b*tch about.

I think rank14 would be fine if it was a DOM exclusive ability. So now you just need to take either con or thm to 14 and every class can cast raise from rank 1?

It does suck that raise get reduced to 14, after lvling jobs to 38 to get raise, all those SP and Time could have been put into something else, but this game was broken and possibly still is, so you kinda had that coming.

Also people with rank 1 and those who don't have a mage classes lvl'd are obviously have biased opinion and favour it since you can get the spell faster than those who leveld to 38.

Idk, but Raise at 14 DOES make it easier, because it makes it convenient > you struggle less > easier(not skill wise).

First people were complaining it's too high, now people are complaining it's too low. Dev team can't win really.

Something people may be forgetting is that they may add an even lower dungeon to the game down the line (Like R15/20). In light of this having raise/resurrect is pretty essential. They needed to be lowered regardless for the R30 dungeon anyway, with entry being at R25. Could it have been a little higher? Sure but to what end? As others have stated you level quite quickly even up to 30 before it even starts to slow down a little.

At any rate I'm happy with these changes. With the addition of the death penalty it's necessary for people in groups of all levels, which generally start around 20, to have raise/resurrect in some form.

As childish as it is to complain about someone else getting something slightly easier than you, it's an MMO and things change. With the game in the state it is you had to have known drastic changes like this were coming. However not all is lost as people who leveled to 38 still get a bonus, you get Raise II and eventually Rebirth at 50 (you're more than half way there!) both of which are exclusive to Conjurer.

Just to let people know, the spells "Resurrect" & "Rebirth" dosent involve "Re-raising" the caster him/herself.

There's no re-raise spell whatsosever.

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Originally Posted by Laughlyn

Thats true, but useless if the player with Raise dies and has to HP too. lol

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True, and that gives even more reason for a lower level raise, as it makes possible that newbie DoW also have raise on their bars.

Also, everyone should not forget that the first dungeon is R25~30 and is for a FOUR member party. Raise's rank requirement was more likely than not made that way (R14) to make it easier to have it available for that party setup, even when there's no real CON / THM available.


But of course, some people on this place just look at their R50s and ignore this kind of issue.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

First people were complaining it's too high, now people are complaining it's too low. Dev team can't win really.

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Did they complain that raise was too high ? Lol, thats what mages were for.
I think R 24-28 would please both groups then.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

First people were complaining it's too high, now people are complaining it's too low. Dev team can't win really.

Something people may be forgetting is that they may add an even lower dungeon to the game down the line (Like R15/20). In light of this having raise/resurrect is pretty essential. They needed to be lowered regardless for the R30 dungeon anyway, with entry being at R25. Could it have been a little higher? Sure but to what end? As others have stated you level quite quickly even up to 30 before it even starts to slow down a little.

At any rate I'm happy with these changes. With the addition of the death penalty it's necessary for people in groups of all levels, which generally start around 20, to have raise/resurrect in some form.

As childish as it is to complain about someone else getting something slightly easier than you, it's an MMO and things change. With the game in the state it is you had to have known drastic changes like this were coming. However not all is lost as people who leveled to 38 still get a bonus, you get Raise II and eventually Rebirth at 50 (you're more than half way there!) both of which are exclusive to Conjurer.

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This is a very good point. As I said I have no problem with raise learned at 14, but rather with every other class having the possibility to cast raise from rank 1 with the current armory system.

Who knows tho, maybe this will be adjusted with the upcoming class balancing

Edit: this is already a problem (and something I'm not fond of), but at least getting your Con to 38 was an achivement in itself

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Originally Posted by Laiferr

For me, I would like to see a steady increase in the amount of exp needed, to the point that at rank 10 it is more beneficial for you to team up with others to start ranking up. Then, bam, you hit 14 and have raise - perfect, because now you've been partying for a few levels and the spell is necessary.

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Originally Posted by Laughlyn

Besides raise raises a party member, not the caster it self so whats the point in complaining about this?

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This brings up something that can be quite good about having Raise/Resurrect @ 14. It will encourage party play earlier, since like Laughlyn said ... you can't raise yourself.

Imagine yourself and another player duo party. If both of you have raise abilities, it allows you to not lose geographic progress in whatever you are doing. You can venture further for longer into more dangerous areas than you could solo.

Now imagine that what your duo party is doing is not fighting ... but mining. You're in a slightly dangerous and somewhat hard to get to area. You and your duo partner start mining at different points but not too far apart. One of you gets agroed and is summarily eaten. When the coast is clear, all your partner has to do is raise you and you both can continue gathering.

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Originally Posted by AdvancedWind

True, and that gives even more reason for a lower level raise, as it makes possible that newbie DoW also have raise on their bars.

Also, everyone should not forget that the first dungeon is R25~30 and is for a FOUR member party. Raise's rank requirement was more likely than not made that way (R14) to make it easier to have it available for that party setup, even when there's no real CON / THM available.


But of course, some people on this place just look at their R50s and ignore this kind of issue.

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So totally agree, some of you are missing valid & bigger points besides the raise spell.

Im sure most of you will find out sooner or later how little use the "Raise" will be when no ones alive standing to cast it.

Oh, another little thingy; Raise / Ressurect were NERFED, while the actual R38 spell (Raise II) is essentially a BUFF over the original spell AND is CON onry.

No effort 'wasted' whatsoever here.

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Originally Posted by Sorel

This brings up something that can be quite good about having Raise/Resurrect @ 14. It will encourage party play earlier, since like Laughlyn said ... you can't raise yourself.

Imagine yourself and another player duo party. If both of you have raise abilities, it allows you to not lose geographic progress in whatever you are doing. You can venture further for longer into more dangerous areas than you could solo.

Now imagine that what your duo party is doing is not fighting ... but mining. You're in a slightly dangerous and somewhat hard to get to area. You and your duo partner start mining at different points but not too far apart. One of you gets agroed and is summarily eaten. When the coast is clear, all your partner has to do is raise you and you both can continue gathering.

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Also a valid point, however with the new "Enmity" system they putting in, well i cant really comment much on this issue.

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Originally Posted by Laughlyn

So totally agree, some of you are missing valid & bigger points besides the raise spell.

Im sure most of you will find out sooner or later how little use the "Raise" will be when no ones alive standing to cast it.

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I've read in french forums that they are going to introduce phoenix downs and reraise items "soon"

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Originally Posted by northernsky

I've read in french forums that they are going to introduce phoenix downs and reraise items "soon"

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wo0p wo0p! ( ^.^)b my complains just ended. ty

Maybe it's about time i go level alchemy lol

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Originally Posted by Vackashken

You'd be a fool not to have a slot open for it on a dungeon run. So again, irrelevant in all honesty. But honestly, this isn't worth a debate to me. I think its too easy and silly. Others will herald it as the greatest thing ever. To each his own - I'll be playing regardless.

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no you would be a fool to waist a slot on raise, when you are a DD, and could use that slot/AP for more DD stuff

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Originally Posted by Sorel

In my mind, the more important question is not what level Raise is, but how many action points does it cost? If it stays at 2 AP, the Armory System's flexibility starts pushing against the request made by us for Class distinctiveness. We can have both, but it does have to be balanced ... or one negates the other.

SO my question to the community (since the Development Team declined to weigh in on this) is ... What should the AP costs be for these new Raise/Resurrect/Rebirth spells?

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This is a question that arose in my mind. Anyone have any thoughts on this question?

Haha true, Increase the AP cost would make everyone happy, kinda like "you want a the low level raise? 5 AP!"

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Originally Posted by Synapse

Haha true, Increase the AP cost would make everyone happy, kinda like "you want a the low level raise? 5 AP!"

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I was thinking closer to 8 but to the same effect.