It's official Parsers are illegal in FFXIV

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Originally Posted by bokchoykn

The absence of parsers IS bad. Maybe not at the casual level, but this game is supposed to appeal to players who play at all levels of intensity, is it not?

The importance and usefulness of parsers for the purpose of evaluation and self-improvement (and the improvement of your teammates) cannot be understated.

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Indeed.

The problem surrounding parsers at the moment are people who abuse its function to belittle or degrade other players in game. This thread's second post is pretty indicative of just such a thing as I pointed out in my previous post. The parser is a pretty valuable tool not only for self improvement, but for locating and resolving player problems in a party. Lately I've been noticing more and more high ilvl geared players who have dps values that aren't where they should be which denotes a rotational problem. This is becoming a big problem as people are leveling to 50 very quickly but never take the time to read the tool tips as to how their stats and abilities work, do rotation research, nor ask questions to people who are experienced with that job. It would become extremely difficult to find and fix these issues without a parser available (especially in the 8 man raids).

hoping this gets over turned, players have a right if the want to help those not good enough, and its our right to know whos not up other players levels, but its also the players right if they dont want to help, you cant force people in either manner, calling out someones low dps, isnt any different to the 2 mistakes your out PF groups, your being called out, people are mentioning you dieing to that landslide over and over, and you are asked to be removed from the group because they have lost faith in you and know you cant help them get the kill, just as dps parsers assess the same situation when it comes to dps checks.
people do realise, the more restrictive SE gets, the more people will make sure they stay grouped up together with like skilled players even more.
Im hoping the playerbase makes a lot of noise on this, parsers are a good thing.

also, im wondering if its even a good idea for SE to ban thousands of players, this is far more common use, SE will back down from this at some point, its not in the best interest to ban thousands of players perma

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Originally Posted by C-croft

At your level of intensity, you shouldn't need a parser to watch what is going on... As a tank, you should be able to watch what is going on around you. And while it is much easier to see a bad tank or healer, it really isn't difficult to find a player lacking in skill.

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Not true. Having a parser has improved my play as well as my FFXIV experience considerably.

• It has allowed me to find ways to improve my damage output, both as a tank and as a DPS class. For example, I found that I did a few too many Twin Snakes and not enough True Strikes as a Monk, which results in a DPS loss. I might not have noticed this flaw in my play without a parser. Being conscious of it, I fixed this problem shortly afterwards.
  
• It has allowed me to find ways to improve my teammates. I noticed our Storm's Path was sometimes not up when the boss did his big damage AoE spell. I checked the parse and noticed that our Warrior used Butcher's Block way too much. Being a Warrior main, I gave him some tips which he was very appreciative of. It made him a better player.
  
• It allows me to identify exceptional DPS players. I don't berate bad DPS players but I try to surround myself with like-minded players who are very good at this game. Parsing in PF runs lets me know who these people are.
  
• It helps me study and figure out boss mechanics. For example, a boss mechanic dealt 8000 damage to one of my teammates. The same spell did 4000 damage when it hit two players. I used this to determine that the spell splits the damage evenly amongst targets hit. This was key to defeating said boss.
  
• It tells me what percentage HP a boss is at. The game doesn't tell you the boss' HP% but boss behaviors change at certain HP% points. This helps me understand the boss and come up with ways to defeat it.
  
• It helps me find accuracy caps. It's very easy to not notice a missed attack. A parser allows for me to determine whether or not I miss at various accuracy levels.

The list goes on and on. There are many positive benefits of having a parser that don't involve yelling at people for having bad DPS.

SE has been saying Parsers are against the ToS since Day 1. This is not new.

It's under the "Don't ask, don't tell" policy. Unless they release their own API for metrics, they will never approve parsers.
That being said, it is impossible for SE to tell if a parser is running unless they had direct access to your computers memory stack.

This is a really dumb thread. Parsers have *always* been against the ToS. When Square Enix says "no third party programs" they can't make exceptions for particular pieces of software because that would seem like an endorsement of said software, which they will definitely not do.

Square Enix will not ban people simply for using parsers. The client doesn't even bother to check for them (nor any other third party software for that matter, which is why bots run rampant), so they have no way of knowing if you're using one in the first place unless you specifically say so in-game. They will ban you if you go into a group and harass someone and say something like "ur shit m8 ur parsing 120 below me kill yourself" and someone else reports you. But if you use one and only share the results in VoIP or in private chat with your party, nothing will happen. This is exactly the same situation as Windower from FFXI, by the way, something that was against the ToS but a ton of people used anyway with no issues.

A large portion of the endgame playerbase uses them because believe it or not, they are incredibly useful for many things other than e-peen stroking and harassment. And it's not exactly healthy for your game for you to go around banning a huge percentage of the players who are most heavily invested in it (ie. the endgame hardcore/semi-hardcore raiding population).

This thread is beyond silly, from all accounts these groups were pos-hacking, nothing at all to do with parsers.

Parsers are like fight club. Don't talk about the goddamn parser!

One step forward, two step backwards.
A Square Enix tradition. Nothing new here.

The real reason for that topic.

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※As of April 1, 2014 at 1:00 a.m., only two parties have legitimately completed “The Second Coil of Bahamut - Turn 3”. Game data since then has been closely monitored.

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aka illegitimate practices involving the alteration of game data. As someone mentioned POS hacking. A form on altering the client game data.

This is a form of cheating and the players involved should have been banned not suspended.

Rest is an already known general reminder regarding 3rd party tools/programs.

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Originally Posted by bokchoykn

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It isn't. Parsers don't discriminate between casuals and hardcore and there's people without parsers that can out do people with em.

Mastery of this game doesn't depend on those factors. You don't need rocket science to be able to read.

To me a parser breeds toxic elitism. It segregates. People will want to stick with their own types (as in skill, dps, rotations etc). The high end do not wish to be caught up with the low or middle end players. Perhaps it might be towards the progress of the run or for some other reason. Some may disagree with me and claim that a parser is for self benefit to improve oneself. Rotations etc. Well I'm not disagreeing but I've seen parsers mainly lean towards elitism. It's only natural among humans to want to be within the best of the best. It's just my honest opinion. I do ask for forgiveness if I have offended anyone out there.

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Originally Posted by Luzaf

To me a parser breeds toxic elitism.

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You don't need a parser for that.
All you need is people.

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Originally Posted by Gormogon

It isn't. Parsers don't discriminate between casuals and hardcore and there's people without parsers that can out do people with em.

Mastery of this game doesn't depend on those factors. You don't need rocket science to be able to read.

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It's not as simple as reading. Parsers compile, organize, and summarize data in ways that the human eye cannot.

And yes, some players without parsers can outperform players with parsers. It's simply a tool to help your improvement. Actual improvement comes from the player.

If you can't see the value in parsers after all that I've said, I don't know what else to tell you.

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Originally Posted by Tashigi

You don't need a parser for that.
All you need is people.

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Parsers sure do make it easier though. :cool:

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Originally Posted by Kaoru_Nagisa

It's not okay to kick anyone from a group unless they're afk, harassing people, or ask to be kicked. Anything else is viewed as harassment.

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Actually, asking to be kicked can also get you in trouble. It's seen by GM's as getting around the system (topic a while ago had this)

People say they don't like parsers because somebody will kick them for their low dps. Fair enough, it's a legitimate concern to not want to be kicked due to poor performance.

But ask yourself this: If you're performing poorly, do you think you should be in the group to begin with? After all, bosses don't die from hugs and rainbows. Numbers kill bosses. Bigger numbers kill bosses faster and easier. There is a baseline for what people should be able to do for their given gear level, and if you're below that, should you not practice before trying to tackle content that requires you to meet the requirement? Most people won't kick for low dps unless the dps you're doing is low because of skill, not gear.

Here's an example: There are two i90 BLMs in a group. One does 300 dps, the other does 150. The boss however requires 500 to win. As such, the boss can't be killed because one person is literally doing half of their potential dps. Should they not be replaced? If they do get replaced, it's not because the evil parser voted them off the island. It's because they were the weakest link, and needed to be removed.

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Originally Posted by MurakumoMillennium

Here's an example: There are two i90 BLMs in a group. One does 300 dps, the other does 150. The boss however requires 500 to win. As such, the boss can't be killed because one person is literally doing half of their potential dps. Should they not be replaced? If they do get replaced, it's not because the evil parser voted them off the island. It's because they were the weakest link, and needed to be removed.

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Nope. Removing them would be elitist. Leaving the group because they can't beat the boss would also be elitist. Only if you're willing to wipe repeatedly for all of eternity can you become a non-elitist.

(jk obviously. I agree whole-heartedly)

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Originally Posted by Kamahil

Cool. I hope everyone that uses a parser is Parma banned

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If people are going to get assaulted by cheese I see that as a reason to go hog wild with then...

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Originally Posted by bokchoykn

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I know the value of parsers but the only thing you keep bringing up is the reason why you are so reliant on it. 2 wipes doesn't justify going bananas yet people do it anyway.

If the people worried about being kicked for low DPS (or getting kicked for low DPS) spent half of the time they spend bitching about it on improving their performance, they would have absolutely nothing to complain about.

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Originally Posted by ForteXX

That program directly modifies the client (being able to move camera more), so its actually less of a legal thing to use than a parser

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Glad I just ignored that then.

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Originally Posted by Raenryong

If the people worried about being kicked for low DPS (or getting kicked for low DPS) spent half of the time they spend bitching about it on improving their performance, they would have absolutely nothing to complain about.,,

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>Assuming worried about being kicked
>Assuming low dps

Using a DPS metre to make sure you are doing a good amount of DPS on a boss fight is good imo. I guess as long as you don't bully other people for doing too low DPS (though everyone should be pulling their weight).

It is scary because I always want to know if I'm doing the right amount of DPS or not, having this loom over me for wanting to make sure I'm not being a burden is awful.

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Originally Posted by ItzKris

>Assuming worried about being kicked
>Assuming low dps

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I have never seen a good player be worried about a parser. It's always the super low DPS slackers.

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Originally Posted by Raenryong

I have never seen a good player be worried about a parser. It's always the super low DPS slackers.

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Im a healer, I dont dps, our mistakes are out on the table (can easily see overhealing, weak heals, mistakes, etc) and even i'm worried about the toxicity that will come from parsers. Many others dislike parsers for the same reason even though they aren't dps classes. This shows that its not always super low DPS slackers.

If it's any reassurance, I've played MMOs where parsers are the norm and widely used, and haven't even seen a single incident of toxicity. That is, unless you count kicking someone from a raid group for poor DPS when it was explicitly stated that x dps was required before joining - and I don't consider this toxic. You know what you signed up for, and if you don't meet the requirements, you are bringing the group down.

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Using third-party programs, parsers, or other tools

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So using a vpn..

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to conduct actions players would not normally be able to do in the game

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to play the game smoothly (something some people are unable to do without a vpn)..

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is a violation of the Terms of Service, and will be dealt with strict disciplinary action.

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is a bannable offence?

:):):):):)

Then how can we know and improve our dps that phasers are banned? Thanks a lot se. You have added a new reason to my list of reasons why I unsubbing.

I wonder why that is. Are there some aspects that they're trying to hide like all mobs sharing copy-pasted stats or classes being duplicates of each other in output stats?

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Originally Posted by Gardes

So using a vpn..


to play the game smoothly (something some people are unable to do without a vpn)..


is a bannable offence?

:):):):):)

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VPN is okay.

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Originally Posted by Hvinire

The type of software you are describing in this thread doesn't appear to directly control anything for the FFXIV client, and as such isn't breaking any of the rules. Similar to other programs, 3rd party software is used at your own risk, and we recommend you employ your best judgement when running software not mentioned in the user agreement.

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Originally Posted by Alkimi

So was using windower in XI but I've never heard anyone getting banned for using that in the 8-9 years it's been around.

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Most kept their mouth shut about using a windower but yes SE did have some rounds of banning people for using it.

My unpopular opinion: Any half decent dps that wants to improve should have their own parser running when running serious content. Statics/fc runs needs to always have a parser running to identify potential weak links/areas of improvements. But I would never use a parser to belittle/point out a stranger's dps in a pug run/df/pf. If it's really bad, I'll just leave and suck up the 30 min debuff.

My unpopular opinion 2: Any half decent dps that wants to improve would actually be happy if someone points out that they are not playing to their full potential/could do better/doing low dps. Its often hard to see one's own mistakes, and having others point it out to you can be a great help.

People are still gonna use parsers regardless the consequences

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...11/991/3a5.jpg

The real question is why were parsers broken out as their own individually mentioned thing, when they were already covered by the ban on third-party software?

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Originally Posted by Lexia

Most kept their mouth shut about using a windower but yes SE did have some rounds of banning people for using it.

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For using windower? No. For using some of the extra plugins that came with it? Yes.

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Originally Posted by BamDeafPie

Then how can we know and improve our dps that phasers are banned? Thanks a lot se. You have added a new reason to my list of reasons why I unsubbing.

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lolwut, that sux kthxbai.

I really want to say something but... so much stupid in here.

Nothing has changed. Parse your FC runs so you can actually, you know, improve and kill stuff fast enough. Leave other players alone.

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Originally Posted by Gardes

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to conduct actions players would not normally be able to do in the game

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to play the game smoothly (something some people are unable to do without a vpn)..

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No. VPN service give you no abilities, that other players would not normally be able to do in the game. It give you only the chance to get a good internet route like other players have out of the box. As of the nature how it works, you will not be equal or better. But you get close enough to play the content like it should be played.

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Originally Posted by Kamahil

You must be a parser user since you defend them.

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You must be the guy people "harass" because your dps is low. xD

On a more serious note. I don't mind having no way to track dps. However, I would not mind if SE implements it's own parser. To me it adds to the game. It's fun to have dps races and it also doesn't hurt to track dps to progress. I think SE is afraid of their own community not being able to handle an ingame dps tracker. Well SE, try to punish harder and make it public. 24 people suspended, no one knows what server, who they are. It's like aallll the RMT guys they banned and gil they confiscated. Yeah right...

Don't blame parsers for people's behaviour. It's people their decency we should be worried about. Would you also not sell popcorn in a cinema because people throw it at each other? Sell it, punish it if they misbehave.

I think SE is more about how certain people cleaned t8 by breaking mechanics with third party programs, more than just sayin "hey parses are what get you banned"

Don't remember readin anyone gettin banned for postin videos where you clearly can see ingame parsing.

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The high end do not wish to be caught up with the low or middle end players.

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Yes because I did a ton of efforts to get up there and sometimes, well you know, you just don't want to "stick" to that.

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Originally Posted by abzoluut

Don't blame parsers for people's behaviour. It's people their decency we should be worried about. Would you also not sell popcorn in a cinema because people throw it at each other? Sell it, punish it if they misbehave.

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This. I HATE parsers because people's behaviour. i don't need my parsers to test my skills as Monk (hate list helps me sometimes to see if i'm doing good/bad with my party) and i find silly that "we wiped because you did 289 instead 290". If a party fails by so few margin it means they're not really prepared (of course, if my dps should be around 200 and i'm doing 50, thats bad, but then it should be obvious since i'll be 8th on hate list).

My "best" dps experience by far was at the beginning of 2.0, joining a random duty finder for Garuda HM. One of the blms said "less than X dps and i'll leave". He wiped in the first jump and got kicked. Felt SO god...


P.D: Parsers are ilegal since the beginning and more than one GM said it, but it won't be a "witch hunt" for everyone who uses parsers. Like Sygmaelle said, they're more concerned about game-breaking mechanics