Yoshi talks a lot about "bringing FFXIV up to standard"...

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Originally Posted by giftforce

Well what about ArcheAge? It has an entire dynamic WORLD. TERA has a political system. Almost all next gen games are implementing these dynamic features (i.e. the world actually changes in some way either for you personally or for the world at large), and meanwhile SE just meanders along imlpementing some questhubs or whatever.

You see my point? You can hate on the games if you please but the standards are being set at a new level now. And SE will still be below that level if they continue to think WoW is the standard, because it's just not.

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You're assuming that "Dynamic Content" is the wave of the future, but I don't see any proof that is will be. You keep pointing at games that are due to come out, but how about looking at some past games that had some sort of "Dynamic Content" and gauge how well they did.

Warhammer Online touted Dynamic PvP content in that factions could battle over encampments and take them over, making that encampment loyal to whichever faction that was able to occupy it. Age Of Conan had similar dynamic content, except that players built it themselves and other guilds could attack and take over. Where are both games now? Languishing in the F2P market. WOW WAVE OF THE FUTURE!

Dynamic content has problems. It sounds like a cool idea to someone who might stay home all day and be able to do nothing but play games and never miss anything. But for players with limited time, Dynamic Content excludes them if it doesn't happen in the perfect time zone for them to be in game for it.

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Originally Posted by Physic

There are many different markets, you are one market, so what is your vision on the next MMO you want to pay to play, do you think based on what has been said this game is heading down that path?

What would ffxiv have to have for you to want pay for it.

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There is nothing on my radar as of right this instance, but games with Dynamic Content are not on it. If there is a chance that I can miss a major evolution point in a game because I am stuck at work, I won't be playing it.

That is not to say that I don't think MMOs have no room to evolve. Honestly, what I would love to see in a game is technology that utilizes smart phone technology and actual geographical location.

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Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe

There is nothing on my radar as of right this instance, but games with Dynamic Content are not on it. If there is a chance that I can miss a major evolution point in a game because I am stuck at work, I won't be playing it.

That is not to say that I don't think MMOs have no room to evolve. Honestly, what I would love to see in a game is technology that utilizes smart phone technology and actual geographical location.

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i didnt mean stuff that exists, you want to see jacked, i more meant what are you looking for in an MMO, that you would be willing to pay for.

Dynamic content isnt as simple as you were at work so you missed it, GW mentions having dynamic content even in dungeons, so while you are say doing a dungeon for the 3rd time, maybe something different will happen with new and unexpected rewards.

Far as stwor, i dont like everything i ve seen in the game, but the quests are progressive, and logical, they demoed a quest on a planet, there was a reason for what you were doing, directly related to the progression of your charachter, and an overall story, and lore, with cutscenes. Other people who were on a similar quest, could see you doing the same quest, and join you midway. Even in the cutscenes both of you make choices which effect how the cutscene goes, sometimes you get your response, sometimes you get your partners. This seems like a better way to capture the market they were aiming for, which is all the people who loved knights of the old republic, and the adventure/story rpg based progression.

the point is that this is the generation of MMOs where the genre will be either expanded or redefined, whats going to be the next big thing? who can say? but the market is ripe for an expansion, and the key to expanding is to hit different markets, or have such strong appeal that your game transcends its specific market.

Basically they said there goal was to tap new MMO markets, including old FF fans who werent into the old concept of MMOs, making the game more similar to standardized MMOs can only get you a small share of their market.

With rift and WoW out, the only one that ffxiv will appeal to (if it stays on the standard mmo of 8 years+ plan) is people who like wow, rift, etc, but hate the setting. But to even compete with them, it has to be at least as polished. Which at the current pace, may take another year to be equal to them at release.

The problem is, with new MMOs, people are thinking that that share of the market will decrease, if it does, ffxiv will be taking and even smaller share of an already dominated market.

this may be their plan, maybe thats why they plan on 2-3 mmos, maybe they are going to make ffxiv the Wow EQ level competitor, and make something new for the new guys. Time will tell i suppose.

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Originally Posted by Physic

i didnt mean stuff that exists, you want to see jacked, i more meant what are you looking for in an MMO, that you would be willing to pay for.

Dynamic content isnt as simple as you were at work so you missed it, GW mentions having dynamic content even in dungeons, so while you are say doing a dungeon for the 3rd time, maybe something different will happen with new and unexpected rewards.

Far as stwor, i dont like everything i ve seen in the game, but the quests are progressive, and logical, they demoed a quest on a planet, there was a reason for what you were doing, directly related to the progression of your charachter, and an overall story, and lore, with cutscenes. Other people who were on a similar quest, could see you doing the same quest, and join you midway. Even in the cutscenes both of you make choices which effect how the cutscene goes, sometimes you get your response, sometimes you get your partners. This seems like a better way to capture the market they were aiming for, which is all the people who loved knights of the old republic, and the adventure/story rpg based progression.

the point is that this is the generation of MMOs where the genre will be either expanded or redefined, whats going to be the next big thing? who can say? but the market is ripe for an expansion, and the key to expanding is to hit different markets, or have such strong appeal that your game transcends its specific market.

Basically they said there goal was to tap new MMO markets, including old FF fans who werent into the old concept of MMOs, making the game more similar to standardized MMOs can only get you a small share of their market.

With rift and WoW out, the only one that ffxiv will appeal to (if it stays on the standard mmo of 8 years+ plan) is people who like wow, rift, etc, but hate the setting. But to even compete with them, it has to be at least as polished. Which at the current pace, may take another year to be equal to them at release.

The problem is, with new MMOs, people are thinking that that share of the market will decrease, if it does, ffxiv will be taking and even smaller share of an already dominated market.

this may be their plan, maybe thats why they plan on 2-3 mmos, maybe they are going to make ffxiv the Wow EQ level competitor, and make something new for the new guys. Time will tell i suppose.

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Yours is a question with no simple answer! I'll pay for a game that is fun to play, but that is just a broad boundary. Honestly, I was having fun in FFXIV right up to the point that I got my first level 50 job and hit that wall and lack of content. But it also doesn't take new and innovative concepts to make a game fun and worth playing. Hell, I paid for Lego Universe for a couple months.

What I wouldn't pay for were games like Age of Conan and Warhammer that promised new and innovative concepts but failed to deliver. In its current state, I probably wouldn't even be paying for FFXIV in its current state, but that is something the SE got RIGHT. Don't make the community continue to pay for a game that is still in development.

Back to the topic of Dynamic Content: Why does it matter what the setting is? PvP. Raids. Dungeons. SOMEONE has to set the dynamic content on a course and not everyone is going to be online as that course is determined. FURTHERMORE, what if the people setting the course are players that don't have the ability to complete something? Then they lose and the rest of the community has to suffer for it.

For example: Dynamic Content! Beat this boss to get to the next level of the dungeon and beat that boss and get to the next level ect (This is just an example). But say your raid party spent all day clearing the first floor of a dungeon and now the second floor is open. Your party takes a break. Some noob adventurers go in and try the second floor and get owned. Failure means something has to happen. Well now the dungeon gets reset and your guild has to go through the whole first floor over again.

Dynamic Content is flawed in that you are going to allow people who have more time dictate the gameplay for people who have less time.

So now we are comparing Content that hasn't been released yet to games that haven't been released yet?

Might as well give up now SE cuz in the future we'll be playing with a Virtual Helmet in a fully rendered 4D world with 360 degree circumtriangulated views and a Gaming Harness for pleasure/pain stimulation as well as a feeding tube with pureed Nos and Corndogs.

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Originally Posted by Davorok

So now we are comparing Content that hasn't been released yet to games that haven't been released yet?

Might as well give up now SE cuz in the future we'll be playing with a Virtual Helmet in a fully rendered 4D world with 360 degree circumtriangulated views and a Gaming Harness for pleasure/pain stimulation as well as a feeding tube with pureed Nos and Corndogs.

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I don't know that we are comparing the two, but what the OP was 'supposedly' trying to relay to us was that SE was falling behind the curve of the Next-Gen MMO, but they are basing it off games that have not been released yet. So.... sort of?

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Originally Posted by Davorok

So now we are comparing Content that hasn't been released yet to games that haven't been released yet?

Might as well give up now SE cuz in the future we'll be playing with a Virtual Helmet in a fully rendered 4D world with 360 degree circumtriangulated views and a Gaming Harness for pleasure/pain stimulation as well as a feeding tube with pureed Nos and Corndogs.

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Well seeing as how all we have to compare in this game, is what is planned (nothing has been implented) and the fact that any thing must be compared to the things that already exist, and things that fulfill the same need/desire that are currently being developed, it seems like we have to.

What we are comparing is ideas, and thats all that the development team is offering up. we could compare what is there now to what is also out there now in games, but then people would say, you cant compare that because they are reinventing the game. So which do you want to compare because i could go either way.

:) i remember waking up, logging in to FFXI only to find out not enough people were online when a high level Besieged kicked off late at night and we lost our Astral Candy.

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Originally Posted by RedAffinity

:) i remember waking up, logging in to FFXI only to find out not enough people were online when a high level Besieged kicked off late at night and we lost our Astral Candy.

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Giftforce could probs solo that, since he has such a great insight to FF MMOs

I don't want to play an action MMO, I don't like action games - that's why I play JRPG's and not action hack 'n slash RPGs like Diablo. I don't want to play WoW either, so I'm glad that XIV at least offers up something different than either of those types of games. Personally I like the direction Yoshi P is taking XIV so far. It seems like he's mostly adding back in the 'Final Fantasy' while removing some of the /facepalm design decisions that were implemented at launch.

I don't think they need to be concerned with 'modern' standards because those are subjective anyway. They do need to at least meet basic MMO standards however, and the standards of a numbered Final Fantasy title. That's exactly what I'm looking for in this game anyway, a 'classic' MMO that plays like a Final Fantasy game. Look at where the franchise came from. I'm sure a lot of people who want to like this game are fans of old school final fantasy where 'modern' additions to the genre don't matter as much. The only question in my mind is whether enough people will care when they finally get it there.

Last I checked, no new MMO's besides TERA are really raising the bar. GW2 has some interesting gameplay elements too but other then that? I don't see any high standards being set. Also, having voiced content isn't a standard. WoW doesn't have it, and it frankly doesn't need it either. That kind of content in my opinion works for certain games. I would like a bit more in XIV but what I did get was enough for me. I want to play a game after all, not watch a movie. :)

If SE fixes the issues with this game, and starts churning the patches out faster, people will stay and play. :D

Just my 2c!

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Originally Posted by PrettyPrincess

Except no one cares what you think

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it is funny more people like his op than they did your response. i guess more are starting to think along those lines.

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Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe

Besides that, I doubt that 'being fully voiced' is what going to make or break a game.

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Definitely not, especially if the voices are bad (COUGHCOUGH WoW), but if the voice acting is, you know, actually GOOD...it is a very nice addition to the game that makes it feel a lot more immersive.

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Originally Posted by Arale

Last I checked, no new MMO's besides TERA are really raising the bar. GW2 has some interesting gameplay elements too but other then that? I don't see any high standards being set. Also, having voiced content isn't a standard. WoW doesn't have it, and it frankly doesn't need it either. That kind of content in my opinion works for certain games. I would like a bit more in XIV but what I did get was enough for me. I want to play a game after all, not watch a movie. :)

If SE fixes the issues with this game, and starts churning the patches out faster, people will stay and play. :D

Just my 2c!

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Last you checked was a long time ago then, lots of new MMO's in development are raising the bar - do some research, (i'll give you a hint, look at Archeage and Asta just to get you going !

standards of mmos: tacky jump feature that is useless unless its ones of those games you die and have to find your body (i've died on jank hills in those games), tacky hotbar with 3-4 rows of useless abilities, a tacky ugly ui that looks like it hasn't been updated since the beginning of mmos. 13 year olds talking about sexual acts they've never done in /say or general world chat.


I can do without the standards of mmos I guess.


The only mmo breaking the mold and creating new standards is Wizardy, made my the guys who did demon/dark souls. They said "we refuse to coddle players", which is the exactly opposite of almost every mmo except XI. I would like some of this standard back, everyone now a days is a complete p*ssy when it comes to mmos and feels the need to be coddled, they can go be mamas boys instead of ruining mmos jesus.

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Originally Posted by Arale

Last I checked, no new MMO's besides TERA are really raising the bar. GW2 has some interesting gameplay elements too but other then that? I don't see any high standards being set. Also, having voiced content isn't a standard. WoW doesn't have it, and it frankly doesn't need it either. That kind of content in my opinion works for certain games. I would like a bit more in XIV but what I did get was enough for me. I want to play a game after all, not watch a movie. :)

If SE fixes the issues with this game, and starts churning the patches out faster, people will stay and play. :D

Just my 2c!

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Raising the bar is nothing but hype, and hype sells games...much like how FF14-turd can sell to unsuspecting and suspecting consumers.

And there's a lot of them coming in the next 12 month or so months. Some of them big names in the east some in the west, some internationally, some simply making big waves.

FF14 desperately needs hype...and it's just desperately failing.

new mmo's like tera not even got targeting and look very fun and very very active game play. i think this is the step they should of took this game, we ended ffxi with awsome campaign battles that ffxiv should of been a hole interactive world with lots of this... it's basically where lot of mmo's are going, with pq's and quest hubs to jump right into and get action from minutes entering game to the end.

gw2 u can switch between weapons and the moves instant switch, the speed of anything in ffxiv is baffling and sadening.

though swtor is fully voiced they say it's the only thing it has, if it does well or not i dunno, i think it will have a nitch group that stays just like this game. yoshi talked about standards but mmo's shouldn't really have "standards" only thing that should be standard is getting a quality game with lots of content. calling auto attack or jumping or whatever else horse play crap standard, is a joke. the battle play at the very least was in a better direction with tanaka, weather the rest was crap or not. but that is a matter of opinion and gameplay enjoyment.

standard for mmo's these days seems to be rushing out there mmo',not ready garbage, while over payed pricks up top reap in the rewards.


http://ealouse.wordpress.com/2010/10/12/hello-world/

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Originally Posted by Spellstar

Last you checked was a long time ago then, lots of new MMO's in development are raising the bar - do some research, (i'll give you a hint, look at Archeage and Asta just to get you going !

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What about ArchAge is 'Raising the bar'?

this game won't be able to compete with the new games so it will die by the end of the year

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Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe

What about ArchAge is 'Raising the bar'?

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ArchAge will have interactive environments that players can alter. There's a thread in here somewhere about how SE should give us a zone where we could build our houses.
Well, in ArchAge you can build your home in an outside environment and other can build next to you, build a village, plant trees, furnish your homes. Oh yeah and build massive ships you and your guild can sail and battle against others.
I dont know what to think about the gameplay yet but the things I've mentioned above are quite impressive.

This is a pretty ridiculous thread.. You are all talking about breaking the Molds..

FFXIV Broke every mold. It brought active combat, fully customizable classes and it's very own UI. You guys complained until they Announced that they were removing all of those features.

Clearly the concept is lost on you.

<= Voice-actor who would work for cheap SE! >.>

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Originally Posted by weeble

http://ealouse.wordpress.com/2010/10/12/hello-world/

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CEO get Lamborghini, Lead Designer get dream fulfillment, everybody happy!

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Originally Posted by Kiote

This is a pretty ridiculous thread.. You are all talking about breaking the Molds..

FFXIV Broke every mold. It brought active combat, fully customizable classes and it's very own UI. You guys complained until they Announced that they were removing all of those features.

Clearly the concept is lost on you.

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dunno what you talking, go look at tera or gw2 gameplay..that is active combat. we have nooo active combat, we don't even have dynamic combat, it's brainless.

FULLY customizable classes? go look at a game like "all points bulletin" that was very customizable (and the game still got shut down by way) cause as much as u want this, who really gives to cents if u can put an earing on a lala over content. and trust me it wasn't that customizable at all. a few hair dews, a few this a few that. not fully at all.

oh u might of meant in battle customizable so k yeah, kinda ...i think with jobs it will be way better though. right now i can just swap out 2-3moves and be done with most classes. i think it will be fun to play when the mobs get dynamic and battles are more fun.

but the ui sucks, i hate the targeting, my camera every other day gets jammed or somthing and keeps me in a weird view that i didn't move it to. the action bar and macro bar is horrible the way it is together. every game should at the least come out with the game having a ui working.

it's been so long that we been playing a empty horrible game that i'm acually lost on what we was complaining about, so yes i'm lost. dunno bout anyone else.

http://ealouse.wordpress.com/2010/10/12/hello-world/

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Originally Posted by Kiote

This is a pretty ridiculous thread.. You are all talking about breaking the Molds..

FFXIV Broke every mold. It brought active combat, fully customizable classes and it's very own UI. You guys complained until they Announced that they were removing all of those features.

Clearly the concept is lost on you.

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People comlpained a lot but Yoshi didn't have the wisdom to listen to valid complaints, nor the insight to keep the systems that made FFXIV even half-way redeemable in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Malakhim

I think that voice acting in a game is a great addition, but using it as a major bullet point makes me worry about the overall quality of the game itself.

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Yup TOR is pretty much a huge gamble right now, and I haven't heard anyone from E3 totally raving about this game, I thought they should be by now since the release is getting closer. Many people worry it will be too single player driven and wonder if BioWare really know how to make an MMO.

If anything TOR is probably not going to be a 'true' MMORPG but something closer to GW1, an MORPG. But you know if they do that well then it'll be good. However let's not mistake TOR for the new MMORPG messiah, it just won't be.

To the OP, YoshiP does have archaic understanding of MMOs, which is too bad and is probably going to end up being XIV's loss. He has experience with existing systems but fails to see what's coming. That I agree with, however for my part IF what he does bring is enough to breathe new life into the game then I'll be super happy.

If not, then there are new interesting games on the horizon and it'll be time to move on. Though I have a sneaking suspicion I won't leave this game until they kick me out of the server, because to me XIV is more then the combat system and lack of voice overs everywhere (which take an IMMENSE amount of SPACE) it's a online world I feel truly at home in.

TOR will probably do fairly well as there is a massive amount of Bioware fans (personally I'm not one but wont argue with the fact that mass effect is huge) and some of the star wars fans. Personally I'm completely disinterested by TOR and so are my friends. I think it will have decent subscriptions, but it's definitely not the next WOW, if it hits as many subscribers as XI had that will be good. I dont think it's going to have the long life that XI had though.

honestly i dont agree with giftforce most of the time, however i see his point. And i find those of you trolling him and arguing the semantics of his point more brain numbing then many things i encounter on these forums (only in this topic however, he very well may be wrong in others). the whole point is that voice acting and other things aside, it is clear this game is looking to old games for ideas. However xiv has already failed to deliver on everything it has tried to do. It does not count as mold breaking when u fail at what you were trying to do. The truth is they failed at making this game, now they have to try to sit in to a comfort zone.

This is where the problem lies however. This new age of mmo consumers are tired of the old and want to leave this comfort zone. So while XIV is trying to fit in to somewhere it thinks is a safety net, it is actually being left behind in the industry. This coupled with its poor release and slow patching does not help its chances of surviving when this new wave of mmos appears. Right now there is no competition however the window is closing on SE and they may not be able to bring this game up to snuff in time to compete. This is a very real danger too so anyone that does not see this is blinbdly white knighting. Its safe to assume once we have to pay even more subs will drop if this game is not up to par. At the point the game may very well shut down. Patience for this game can only be asked for so long.

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Originally Posted by Azurus

honestly i dont agree with giftforce most of the time, however i see his point. And i find those of you trolling him and arguing the semantics of his point more brain numbing then many things i encounter on these forums (only in this topic however, he very well may be wrong in others). the whole point is that voice acting and other things aside, it is clear this game is looking to old games for ideas. However xiv has already failed to deliver on everything it has tried to do. It does not count as mold breaking when u fail at what you were trying to do. The truth is they failed at making this game, now they have to try to sit in to a comfort zone.

This is where the problem lies however. This new age of mmo consumers are tired of the old and want to leave this comfort zone. So while XIV is trying to fit in to somewhere it thinks is a safety net, it is actually being left behind in the industry. This coupled with its poor release and slow patching does not help its chances of surviving when this new wave of mmos appears. Right now there is no competition however the window is closing on SE and they may not be able to bring this game up to snuff in time to compete. This is a very real danger too so anyone that does not see this is blinbdly white knighting. Its safe to assume once we have to pay even more subs will drop if this game is not up to par. At the point the game may very well shut down. Patience for this game can only be asked for so long.

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The thing is, the game already has set a direction for itself : more strategy based a la XI, EQ, etc. IF they were to change directions once again it would take the same amount of time it has taken to reach here, the same 9 or whatever months, because new systems would need to be created. The initial combat system sucked, the leves as main content sucked, so reverting to that is out of the question.

The real danger here is only incurred by SE. If they dont pull it off I will just move on. But, complaining now* the game discarded its mold braking mechanics and something should be done, is just time wasted. Only thing to be done is wait and see.

I believe SE can introduce innovative content with the direction they have planned to take the game. What can they introduce, that is up to them, not me, as consumer I will just wait and see if its worth my money.

I like quests as is, if all quests had cs it would take to long to really do. I like cs SOMETIMES but not ever 20 seconds. I like playing an mmo not watching it like a movie. Add the fact that most of ffxiv cs take 3 min to load up depending on your pc/connection. Star wars isn't really gonna be an mmo. It is to single player focus. gw/gw2 isn't really an mmo just an online rpg. And there is no fee, so wonder how dynamic things will really be. And how open. You need to pay for content in some form. Be it by mnthly sub or buying said content outright. Only free mmo where mud. And due to them being text based so it was easy to write up content. Also at times they asked for donations.

I only wish my familys laptop could handle ffxiv and that ppl actually talked. Those are the only 2 reason i'm not cureently playing. I just hope a ps3 release will be soon :)

"which is all the people who loved knights of the old republic, and the adventure/story rpg based progression."

I loved kinight of the old republic. and i think the old republic is a crying shame to the saga.

Why does everyone want everything to be fully voiced? Half the time I finish reading the text before the voice actor finishes reading it and I just want them to shut up, I barely ever even play with game sound on...

Besides that, active combat is fine, but pressing 1 over and over again to select the same basic attack is not my idea of active combat, i'd rather have something like DC Universe Online or Dungeons and Dragons Online where you click the mouse to make a basic attack.

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Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe

What you think and what is going to happen are two different things. People said the same things when Rift first came out. It got a lot of Subs and a lot of initial interest, but like most MMOs of the modern era, the community has a short attention span and people have been getting bored with it too already.

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Even the developers of Rift know this, they've been trying SOOOO hard to sell the game like crazy lately. Even going so low as to offer the game for $5, not to mention I think it's been on sale for a good month straight at $10.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

Even the developers of Rift know this, they've been trying SOOOO hard to sell the game like crazy lately. Even going so low as to offer the game for $5, not to mention I think it's been on sale for a good month straight at $10.

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It even does cross promotions with other games like TF2.

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Originally Posted by Ricky

It even does cross promotions with other games like TF2.

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I'm starting to think that's a requirement to be supported on Steam lol. What TF2 hats do you want to be bundled with your game?

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Originally Posted by Ricky

It even does cross promotions with other games like TF2.

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Hat Fantasy XIV. Make it happen, Yoshida.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

I'm starting to think that's a requirement to be supported on Steam lol. What TF2 hats do you want to be bundled with your game?

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Forget Helmets.

How about subligars?

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Originally Posted by Snuf

Why does everyone want everything to be fully voiced? Half the time I finish reading the text before the voice actor finishes reading it and I just want them to shut up, I barely ever even play with game sound on...

Besides that, active combat is fine, but pressing 1 over and over again to select the same basic attack is not my idea of active combat, i'd rather have something like DC Universe Online or Dungeons and Dragons Online where you click the mouse to make a basic attack.

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I think people just want more atmosphere. Silence doesn't really give you that.

And I don't dispute that FFXIV's attempt at action combat was a total, miserable failure, but as you say, there are many incarnations that seem to do the idea justice, and many more to come like Blade&Soul which is still tab-target based but with a bigger emphasis on positioning and skills. (As opposed to merely stats).

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Originally Posted by giftforce

(As opposed to merely stats).

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Stats matter??

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Originally Posted by Naylia

Stats matter??

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If the prices for +3s are anything to judge by.