Complain all you want..

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Originally Posted by Spanky

Post of post full of proper logic and common sense

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What are you doing?! You're ruining the drama over spilt water with your use if common sense and logical posts D=

Stahp!

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Originally Posted by Spanky

Cute you think it will be that far away? I already got my atma, but I see a drop rate increase within a month ... at least 3x as quick. Maybe something like Can find randomly or do 10 fates and guarantee it.

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well that just the time for near instant drop rates I'm expecting in 2.4 considering current progressing plans

We may see a drop rate for Atma soul increased in 2.3 around a 50% chance drop rate per FATE in 2.3

If they add a 100% chance after X amount of FATE system then they may need a indicator to help determing how many fate is required before a 100% drop rate.

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

If they add a 100% chance after X amount of FATE system then they may need a indicator to help determing how many fate is required before a 100% drop rate.

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this is a good, way, the point is not the grind, but the freaking RNG link to that... i did spend 4-5 hours in central shroud at do fate (enough for get more of 15k seal) and didn't get any Atma all i did receive it's frustration because this time i did get nothing at all. the seal are nice but i can get them faster by doing other stuff.
no progress, no satisfaction that your hard work is rewarded. nothing of this, if you are unlucky like me (and believe me i have really no luck) you can spend many days at do this without say nothing.

more important the real trouble is not this. it's the fact this is not even rewarding in the progression of your weapon, you only get a swap color and now you can begin to farm myth for buy book for actually begin to make your weapon progress. the second part of this is really brilliant, some picture and you must find where to go for finish the objective log from the book. you have different thing to do and allows more variety... sadly the Atma part is poorly develloped in comparaison. it's clearly an artificial way to increase the time for get the atma.
sadly if you are lucky... it don't increase it. i have seen someone with the atma less of 13 hours after the release of the 2.2.

this system is unfair and bring nothing outside frustration and hate for this part of the game. it wasn't needed.

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Originally Posted by Prototype909

Because nothing says epic like clearing level 3 FATEs.

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Neither does farming content through DF, but to each his own ;]

at least we are ok for say this, the quest need to feel epic in a way, why not copy what they have done in bravely default for get access to the castle of the vampire. you must beat 6 dragon really hard, why not give us Solo fight really hard that will ask some gear check and at the same time a big skill check. other game have done it before, like the secret world where get acces to the nightmare difficulty of the dungeon you need to beat the keeper alone.

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Originally Posted by Zwipe

Neither does farming content through DF, but to each his own ;]

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Beating Titan HM is 1000x the achievement of zerging through a level 10 FATE, mashing flash and then randomly getting a drop.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

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Well RNG is never good in my book because in my experience it favors those fortunate enough to get the item instead of rewarding people who worked for it.

I still would have preferred a solo quest chain that had tough instance fights with the final Instance boss fight being a Legendary NPC who was once the same Job as our character to test if we are worthy to follow in their foot steps and unlock great power in our relics but that would have required more work and a proper story covering each Relic weapon's history and Legends that were once our character's Jobs. (Group Quest chain would appear fine but group quest chains tend to end with most of the people being carried by others)

Edwin, your idea is lovely. SE doesn't listen to 'good' ideas however... Anyway, this is a quote I rather feel fits with those who think the FATE idea is 'grand'. I will edit it as it is vulgar. "In case you haven't caught on...I just slid my **** down your throat...And you thanked me for it." If this gets deleted, ah well. But it is something this FATE RNG system warrants.

another idea that was more interesting (given by someone on the french forum) you enter a sort of arena. a group of monster appear and you must clean them as fast as possible. in fonction of your succes you will have a chest with more or less choice to get an atma in function of your speed. you can even add boss fight.

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Originally Posted by Prototype909

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I don't... just.. what?!
"Your chances of getting Atma after 3 FATEs and 3000 FATEs are the exact same."
Is this your understanding of statistics? So if you roll a dice a 1000 times you'll have the same chance of getting a 1(or whatever the number) as you would on just 2 rolls?... I don't even know what to say to this.

"There's no progression, no sense that you're actually doing anything, just mindlessly pushing forward until you get lucky." Except when you get an item and then another(you get the point), and realize you're progressing?

It's one thing not to like depending on luck or even not liking to grind fates, but this points just don't make any sense.

Also your example says that the drop is controlled by some entity that based on no previous fixed rules determines whether you get it or not as if on the mere whim of his mood- when in fact it is controlled by a fixed chance. There's a difference.

Again bottom line, this content is made for people who like having something to do with no weekly/daily restrictions and that takes a long time spent to achieve, some of these people will even be getting more than 1 of those weapons. People who have been asking for this for quite a while.
This piece of content does not block you from any other, the weapon itself has 2 others on the same range of power, and 2 others on a higher range of power.
So-- you don't have to do it. Stop the drama please.

@Pibz: he is right, when you will do the FATE let's say you roll a dice for get your item, you need a 6... you can roll the dice 1 time and get it or.... simply never get a 6.

other point the Zodiac weapon mustn't be a reward for the people lucky or that have a lot of time. because it means a part of the game is solely for them... but still can do the alternative like you say.

The Zodiac must'nt be a reward for the lucky one, but for the skillfull and more important for the people that will work for it. not simply because people are lucky. RNG must'nt be link to a content like the Zodiac weapon.

Yoshida: For example, I get a lot of people telling me "why do you set limits on items you can get each week?"
4Gamer: Ah.
Yoshida: And I understand how they feel. They're thinking "this part of the game is actually fun, so why would you make it so we can't get the item we want?" However, let's say if we try to control the distribution of rare items not by a lockout, but via drop rates instead. If you do this, then the game will simply become one-sided favoring those who can play longer.
4Gamer: So it's a choice between having the drop rate being 1% but unlimited, versus getting a 100% drop only once each week. And having to decide which one serves the players better. It must be a hard question to answer.
Yoshida: And having a drop rate of 1% does not necessarily mean you'll get 1 guaranteed drop out of 100 tries. It's simply an expected rate. So for example if you have a player who does nothing but play 24 hours a day, it can actually be a pretty high drop rate for that person. But then if you end up with a ton of these rare items in the game, it would cause problems with the game balance too, so then you'd end up having to make adjustments, so you reduce the drop rate to something like 0.1% because there are too many of these items, and now you just made it impossible for people who don't have a lot of time to play to get that item.


:D Even Yoshida dislikes it

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

@Pibz: he is right, when you will do the FATE let's say you roll a dice for get your item, you need a 6... you can roll the dice 1 time and get it or.... simply never get a 6.

other point the Zodiac weapon mustn't be a reward for the people lucky or that have a lot of time. because it means a part of the game is solely for them... but still can do the alternative like you say.

The Zodiac must'nt be a reward for the lucky one, but for the skillfull and more important for the people that will work for it. not simply because people are lucky. RNG must'nt be link to a content like the Zodiac weapon.

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Of course freak scenarios can occur, and those are accounted for in the x%, it can happen yet in most cases(the vast vast majority) it won't happen even less so forever and ever, the drop chance isn't even that low...

Edit:
Additionally, please do tell how much better relic and relic zenith were at rewarding players for working more and being more skillful.
Neither account for skill, this one at least rewards you for time spent(and the fate grinding isn't the biggest time sink in it, even if you do end up spending more time than the average overall).
Also doesn't eat up your weekly capped tomes.

If they did anything other than fates I think we wouldn't have this issue. Fates don't give you anything at level 50 even if it was from dungeons at least you're progressing while battle RNG it's fine but fates man fates suck

ok ok ok. for those that want to see progress let's change it to you must complete 1,000,000 fates in each zone to get the required atmas. there you now have your progress you want and if you just so happen to get the drop before 1million you count yourself lucky. get to running them and start counting. i'm sure you will get it before you hit 1 million, but keep count anyways.

the only problem i have with the fate grind is i feel there should only have a chance of dropping the atma's out of higher level fates. i feel as though level 40+ fates would be ok, but i think it's pretty dumb to advance towards the higher weapon by beating lvl4 fates for christ sakes.

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Originally Posted by Atsushi-R

I feeling to quit too because of this ridiculous atma grinding, took me 4+ hours for just 1 piece.

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A whole 4 hours oh god you poor little thing you, try years on FFXI with the dynamis weapons then you come back and try to complain.

The lot of you who keep talking about how long it takes, listen here I camped a NM on FFXI 24 hours just for brown belt item versus several other people and if I didn't get it I would camp even longer.

I know you all have tried FFXI what do you want it just to be handed to you without any work done haha I think SE cut you a break if you ask me.

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Originally Posted by HeroSamson

A whole 4 hours oh god you poor little thing you, try years on FFXI with the dynamis weapons then you come back and try to complain.

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Indeed, furthermore these people make it seem like the whole entirety of the patch was "Grind Atmas the game"- guess there's no new primals EX, no other new gear, no new coil turns, etc.

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Originally Posted by Pibz

Indeed, furthermore these people make it seem like the whole entirety of the patch was "Grind Atmas the game"- guess there's no new primals EX, no other new gear, no new coil turns, etc.

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Meh not like this affects me much since I'm still waiting to find that right class to main.

Also, has anyone found out where those Unidentified Allagan Tomes drop yet?

I would love to get my hands on those new Weathered Weapons.

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

Meh not like this affects me much since I'm still waiting to find that right class to main.

Also, has anyone found out where those Unidentified Allagan Tomes drop yet?

I would love to get my hands on those new Weathered Weapons.

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T7 of BC2, then... enjoy haha

about the people saying: yeah was easy to do relic, was easy to get level 50. i will answer this, a lot of legacy player had a couple, if not all, class 50 and some had even 1 relic. yoshida did make it easier for allows new player to catch up. strangely all the new equipement from ARR was not that easy to get. 11 week for get the full armor myth if you remember.

now people point the unfair and the stupidity of the Atma grind mostly for two reason: 1) it's in the FATE, 2) it's a heavy RNG link to the FATE.
people are not against Grind, they are aren't mindless grind... to have a feeling of progression it's better than simply pray each time you finish a fate to be lucky.

for finish, most player (and i'm quite sure of this) don't want grind a la FF11, don't even hope make FF14 ARR a FF11-2... it's a game of another age and this age is over (thanks gods) most player have a social life or family obligation and don't want to simply heard people without this say... "you are casual don't play mmorpg" the mmorpg is not for the hardcore gamer!!

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Originally Posted by HeroSamson

The lot of you who keep talking about how long it takes, listen here I camped a NM on FFXI 24 hours just for brown belt item versus several other people and if I didn't get it I would camp even longer.

I know you all have tried FFXI what do you want it just to be handed to you without any work done haha I think SE cut you a break if you ask me.

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I suppose you want a medal for that, don't you? Just because people don't have the time or inclination to do the equivalent of climbing Mount Everest doesn't make them lazy or whatever talking points the no-lifer forums are putting out these days. No one sane should ever have to, much less want to, go through what many people in XI had to endure, especially during the early years.

The FATE system might not have been an ideal place to implement the Atma quest, but heaven knows an HNM system would have been far worse.

My thing is, I don't mind a grind for the relic. But some of the fate zones are just awful and increase the time period. Would of loved if the quest favored higher level fate zones. I understand the logic, get high level people in low level zones, their population will pop more fates for low level people who happen to be trying to level. But still, would of loved more higher level fate zones.

Haven't even bothered with the grind, just not worth the frustration of dealing with a completely luck based mechanic combined with a boring game element. Thankfully Bravura upgrade is not worth it anyway, so I'll just wait for drop rate increase or a change to the mechanic, by the time it might actually be worth it. Why not worth it? Bravura's secondary stats and the accuracy requirements of 2nd coil.


*Sits back and enjoys the show of people running from FATE to FATE like maniacs.*

Lol, feels like game communities are so contradictive. They complain about not having enough to do then when there ARE things to do theyit's grindy. What's worst is that it seems these same people think that items that aren't obtainable within a couple of days is considered "grindy".

I've tried to get some atma for a few hours yesterday and today, haven't seen anything. Wasn't even sure if I was doing it right.

Relic check
Plus 1 check
Designated area check
gold win check

Nothing. I figured oh well, I give up for now because I can do other things but the reality is, those who want it, will have to bang it out right now while people are actually still doing them. Up until patch, fate grinding was pretty dead except for in spots like northern thanalan and coerthas. Places like east and south shroud would have like a whopping 10-15 people doing fates taking like 8-10 minutes per fate. Now there are people every where, smashing fates in 3-5 minutes like it was in the very beginning.

It's now or never.

Completely not true. Most fates can be completed solo (even boss fates only require a couple of people) and even before 2.2, fates were still done here and then. Sure it isn't zerged down within a few minutes of spawn but it is definitely far from your definition of "now or never". This is what i'm talking about, impatient people who exaggerate.

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to have a feeling of progression it's better than simply pray each time you finish a fate to be lucky.

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You probably have just as many who prefer this to what you prefer.

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Originally Posted by Pibz

I don't... just.. what?!
"Your chances of getting Atma after 3 FATEs and 3000 FATEs are the exact same."
Is this your understanding of statistics? So if you roll a dice a 1000 times you'll have the same chance of getting a 1(or whatever the number) as you would on just 2 rolls?... I don't even know what to say to this.

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There's no progress because each time you try to get an Atma, you have the same chance of getting an Atma.

If you try 3000 tries, you have a better chance of getting what you because you are trying more often. But you're not making progress, because nothing you are doing is improving the chance of getting an Atma on the next try.

WoW had this problem years ago, and they fixed it. Every time you failed to get what you want, the odds you would get what you wanted next time improved. So if the drop was 1%, next time it would be 1.1%, then 1.2%, etc. There is progress even if you're unlucky.

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Originally Posted by Allyrion

That's just not how probability works. The exact same? Really?
Of course there's luck involved and I'd prefer a progress I can track as well. But that doesn't excuse making false statements/severe hyperbole.

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Actually, it sort of is.

These are independent events. The probability of drop is unchanged by the number of FATEs someone has done. While we do EXPECT to see that a drop will occur over a sufficiently large sample--in statistics we could only predict this with about 95% accuracy. This means that inevitably someone will fall into those cracks. The chance to get the item is the same no matter if its your 1st or 3000th FATE, and while there is a reasonable expectation that you'd get the drop well before reaching 3,000--there is no such guarantee.

I'm willing to bet you that someone, somewhere, is going to do at least 5 times as many FATEs as you will have to in order to get their weapon. I spent 16 hours on my first drop.

I hate the grind but will do it because I like raiding, and there's potential for the progression of this weapon to later become important for that goal. I think THIS is really what has so many people's pannies in a bunch, is that there appears to be a lot of hullabaloo about these weapons and there's no guarantee they won't later be at the top of the BiS list in importance.

Yes, the content is "optional" (the whole game is optional!)--but there are other goals a person can have which render it fairly non-optional.

All of this other BS aside, I just don't like the idea that someone can work 1/24th as hard as I have to and get the same thing. At least with loot RNG there is some skill involved, because you must first clear the boss. You have to work for your loot.

Here it's just any old moron with a zenith can get it if they're willing to push 1-2-1-2-1-2-1-2-1-2 for enough hours.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

at least we are ok for say this, the quest need to feel epic in a way, why not copy what they have done in bravely default for get access to the castle of the vampire. you must beat 6 dragon really hard, why not give us Solo fight really hard that will ask some gear check and at the same time a big skill check. other game have done it before, like the secret world where get acces to the nightmare difficulty of the dungeon you need to beat the keeper alone.

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Stop using common sense, you'll upset the natives.

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Originally Posted by Allyrion

That's just not how probability works. The exact same? Really?
Of course there's luck involved and I'd prefer a progress I can track as well. But that doesn't excuse making false statements/severe hyperbole.

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with this case its exactly how it works, all you have to do is realize that this is very similar to many of the drops in XI, there is no false statement or hyperbole in the statement you replied to. the RNG they are using for the drop on those atma is one of the worst in any game ever. if you look at how it works. the probability of that drop is .02 and .00000000000000000000000002. go ahead and look up drop rates on things in FFXI, many super hardcore players never got drops they wanted do to that RNG which seems to be very much the same as this one.

I know a lot of hardcore players that are extremely angry at these drop rates.

not to mention there should be specific FATEs for them not every FATE in the zone, low level players are getting the hit on that.

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Originally Posted by Pibz

I don't... just.. what?!
"Your chances of getting Atma after 3 FATEs and 3000 FATEs are the exact same."
Is this your understanding of statistics? So if you roll a dice a 1000 times you'll have the same chance of getting a 1(or whatever the number) as you would on just 2 rolls?... I don't even know what to say to this.

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Actually I think he's right. You're not rolling the same dice, but 3000 dice. So your "chance" would always be 1/6. What you do get is more tries.

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Originally Posted by ZanderMist

Actually I think he's right. You're not rolling the same dice, but 3000 dice. So your "chance" would always be 1/6. What you do get is more tries.

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Edit:
Ah nevermind thought you were agreeing with the other guy xD

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

ok ok ok. for those that want to see progress let's change it to you must complete 1,000,000 fates in each zone to get the required atmas. there you now have your progress you want and if you just so happen to get the drop before 1million you count yourself lucky. get to running them and start counting. i'm sure you will get it before you hit 1 million, but keep count anyways.

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I have kept count, I started at 724 FATE/1000, I am up to 1,435. 4 Atma to my name, none have dropped outside of the first day. But hey, I'm progressing, right guys?!

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Originally Posted by Eardstapa

I have kept count, I started at 724 FATE/1000, I am up to 1,435. 4 Atma to my name, none have dropped outside of the first day. But hey, I'm progressing, right guys?!

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nice you have done 700 fates. only 999,300 and you will for sure have the next stone.

This bull!#$% is the worst thing I have seen in regards to character progression ever in a MMO, its one thing to make someone grind fates and dungeons to level up alt jobs, but to make people once they have gotten to 50 to keep fate grind for endless hours is the most dumbest thing I have seen SE do. Did you really think that making a player spend countless hours doing fates repetitively while earning absolutely nothing was a smart business move? As much as Final Fantasy is a grind as so many people have posted on here to make a stupid point which is irrelevant, Final Fantasy is grindy in the past for the purpose of your character growing and earning XP, what the hell does spending 10+ hours doing the same fates over and over again earn you? Nothing, just a big waste of freaking time when all I have to do now is focus on EX Leviathan until I beat it with my great FC to earn a almost equal weapon that took 10 times less effort and time to do. Smart move SE....Real smart and stupid!!!!!

"OMG Square, I only log in on Mondays and I have nothing left to do for entire week! Change it or I quit!"

*Square adds long term goal and a reason to log in every day*

"OMG Square what is this sh*t I can't play every day! Change it or I quit!"

:rolleyes:

I don't see why people are moaning, so you want your atma weapon NOW!! Well tough! Sad bunch posting up ultimatums of leaving etc.
SE gave us content which requires work, something to achieve and all of you are complaining about a number of hours lol. So far I have 9 atma pieces which has taken 3 days to gain (atleast 12 hours a day due to being able to play while in work) but just trying to get the one in North shroud has taken me over 13hours total time and I have still yet to get it, I don't care though as it will mean more when I actually get it. Yes I may get frustrated but on the other hand I do not want everything to be given to me on a plate so to speak. People seem to want everything handed to them as if they have some sort of entitlement, work for your stuff lazy people! :p This is not even bad compared to some MMO's out there.

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Originally Posted by KupoNuts

"OMG Square, I only log in on Mondays and I have nothing left to do for entire week! Change it or I quit!"

*Square adds long term goal and a reason to log in every day*

"OMG Square what is this sh*t I can't play every day! Change it or I quit!"

:rolleyes:

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This. The community destroys every MMO. Everyone keeps complaining like a little 3 y.o. and then Blizzard/SE/all the other companies "fix" it for those that complained the most. Of course that dissatisfies another group, which then complains until it's "fixed" again. Rinse and repeat.

Guys, this is an MMO. If you want everything go cheat in a single player game. Everyone should try to enjoy this. If you NEED to get every piece of equipment, well, you will have to do something you don't like in pretty much every game. Play like you enjoy it. Noones forced to grind these, noones forced to farm coil, noones forced to do anything. Everyone that's complaining here should question themselves, if FF XIV is a game or if they mistook it for their lives.
(and no, not a flame "lol, play less" - I'm currently spending a ton of time on this game, but I'm not bothering with these FATEs since I don't like it, end of the story.)