Honestly, let SE make as much money as they can.

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Originally Posted by Mardel

Thing is, they aren't assuming we want a vanity cash shop XD. Mog station was already suppose to be implemented to provide extra services for FF14, and like Yoshi said himself it takes drastic changes/planning to switch to a cash shop model. They are also even less likely to add one in when they can sell you something else and add a code for an "exclusive FF14 in-game item." Like they have with those minions.

"Welcome to the FINAL FANTASY XIV: Mog Station, the management page for all FINAL FANTASY XIV services!"

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Yes, extra services like server transfers, name changes and the likes, not two full fledged retainers for 2$/month each. As I said in another place, even F2P games that -obviously- lack a sub to get money charge just once for extra inventory space. P2P games shouldn't even have to think about doing things like this one.

Vanity is a big deal to me personally. The gameplay isn't as fun if you don't look awesome while you're doing it. So the day they add a cash shop to a game i'm already paying a subscription for is the day i quit, even if its just vanity and doesn't effect gameplay in any way.

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Originally Posted by Yshnal

Yes, extra services like server transfers, name changes and the likes, not two full fledged retainers for 2$/month each. As I said in another place, even F2P games that -obviously- lack a sub to get money charge just once for extra inventory space. P2P games shouldn't even have to think about doing things like this one.

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Yah know, they could just increase subs across the board by another $2? However, this is optional and in no way forced upon you.

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Originally Posted by BearGrylls

Vanity is a big deal to me personally. The gameplay isn't as fun if you don't look awesome while you're doing it. gameplay in any way.

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Vanity is nice and all but if you don't have any content to do you'll just afk in Mor Dhona most of the looking pretty.

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Originally Posted by Ikeda

I'll never understand why people are "fine" with being ripped off. You're already getting mounts, pets, and vanity items in content updates because of the subscription you're paying. Why would anyone in their right mind go "I'm already paying you for the content you're already giving me but you know what? I think I have too much money lingering in my wallet :D please take out some of the content you were already planning to give me and charge me extra for it."

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I don't mind SE trying to earn more profits from FFXIV, especially given SE's current situation. I do believe that more profits for SE from FFXIV would equate to more resources dedicated to FFXIV which could mean frequent and larger content patches which ultimately increases the value my monthly sub gives.

that said, I do also believe that FFXIV should not be too focused on cash shops and rely too heavily on it for revenue generation.

On the topic of vanity items, perhaps SE can make it in a way that the cash shop simply allows for early access to said vanity items, so players can choose to purchase it for immediate use but those who choose not to, can still attain said vanity items either through drops or quests in the next patch.

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Originally Posted by ReiszRie

I don't mind SE trying to earn more profits from FFXIV, especially given SE's current situation. I do believe that more profits for SE from FFXIV would equate to more resources dedicated to FFXIV which could mean frequent and larger content patches which ultimately increases the value my monthly sub gives.

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I've seen this used often by posters when DCUO was money grabbing left and right but I don't think the quality of the game ever really improved.

Woooo feels like deja vu all over again.

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Originally Posted by ReiszRie

I don't mind SE trying to earn more profits from FFXIV, especially given SE's current situation. I do believe that more profits for SE from FFXIV would equate to more resources dedicated to FFXIV which could mean frequent and larger content patches which ultimately increases the value my monthly sub gives.

that said, I do also believe that FFXIV should not be too focused on cash shops and rely too heavily on it for revenue generation.

On the topic of vanity items, perhaps SE can make it in a way that the cash shop simply allows for early access to said vanity items, so players can choose to purchase it for immediate use but those who choose not to, can still attain said vanity items either through drops or quests in the next patch.

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FFXI hasn't needed a cash shop for 10 years and FFXI's subscriptions are also funding FFXIV on top of its own subscriptions and possibly whichever revenue the Dragon Quest mmo and Nosgoth get them. FFXIV doesn't need a cash shop end of story. People play P2P mmos to avoid cash shops. Chances are SE would lose more revenue due to lost subscriptions and ruined reputation by adding a cash shop than anything they'd gain from whoever doesn't quit.

I don't think it is a good idea in the least bit making people pay more given ESO and Wildstar are just around the corner.
They should have those options available in game.
If they really need revenue, they should have started selling fantasia potions long ago.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...tation/page152
That thread has 152 pages with 10 posts per page... there's a lot of interest.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

SE have been making half assed games since ... well FFX, excluding ARR

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Umm... did you play FFXI and FFXII? If anything, they started milking franchises and destroying brands when they started doing spin-off and "-2" games. I'm looking at you KH and FFXIII.

Money makerz!

the fact that people use VPN to play this game is enough.

I'm sorry? Make as much monry as they can?

I thought the main idea of having a p2p game was so we only pay for the subscripton fee. Every paying customer pays the same and gets the same in return.

There shouldn't be any in-game advantages for people who pay more. That just brings back nightmares of cash shops and pay-to-win design that im sure everyone here is so sick of.

I love this game and SE as a whole for that matter, but the main reason I bought ff14 was to get away from all f2p games and just try a legit game where you actually have to work to get stuff, not pay.

Edit: also, with 1.8 million subscribers I highly doubt that they need the extra cash.

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Originally Posted by Ikeda

FFXI hasn't needed a cash shop for 10 years and FFXI's subscriptions are also funding FFXIV on top of its own subscriptions and possibly whichever revenue the Dragon Quest mmo and Nosgoth get them. FFXIV doesn't need a cash shop end of story. People play P2P mmos to avoid cash shops. Chances are SE would lose more revenue due to lost subscriptions and ruined reputation by adding a cash shop than anything they'd gain from whoever doesn't quit.

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IMO people are against cash shop simply out of principle

FFXIV's subscriptions are what swung SE back into profitability after suffering consecutive years of losses and as more patches gets added and subscribers levels out after the initial hype phase, FFXIV might no longer be profitable enough or even profitable to justify the resources dedicated to it. This is of course a hypothesis and I personally do not actively support cash shops in the traditional P2W sense but I am open to see how it could've been implemented differently e.g cash shop vanity items only being for early access to them and that the rest of the player-base can acquire them through in-game means on a later date.

I see no wrong for SE trying to stabilize their revenues from FFXIV and I understand their imperative from a business standpoint.

If it keeps FFXIV from turning into a full blown F2P/Cash Shop with a bunch of in-game ads chest that require real money to unlock, I wouldn't mind paying an extra 2 bucks if i really needed a retainer. I still don't understand how people can justify spending $500 on a graphics card or latest console, yet consider an extra 2 dollars a month on a retainer "being taken advantage of."

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Originally Posted by ReiszRie

IMO people are against cash shop simply out of principle

FFXIV's subscriptions are what swung SE back into profitability after suffering consecutive years of losses and as more patches gets added and subscribers levels out after the initial hype phase, FFXIV might no longer be profitable enough or even profitable to justify the resources dedicated to it. This is of course a hypothesis and I personally do not actively support cash shops in the traditional P2W sense but I am open to see how it could've been implemented differently e.g cash shop vanity items only being for early access to them and that the rest of the player-base can acquire them through in-game means on a later date.

I see no wrong for SE trying to stabilize their revenues from FFXIV and I understand their imperative from a business standpoint.

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Again FFXI has gone for 10 years with no cash shop and has been SE's most profitable game. It's running on about 300k subscribers at most right now. Unless FFXIV some how manages to drop below 100k subscribers they have no business even thinking of a cash shop. Not even a vanity cash shop.

but what is the big deal about that vanity market anyway ? it is optional

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Originally Posted by Shneibel

but what is the big deal about that vanity market anyway ? it is optional

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Because everything that ends up in a cash shop, should have been made in game in some way. Everything in a cash shop means it wasn't added as in game content.

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Originally Posted by Shneibel

but what is the big deal about that vanity market anyway ? it is optional

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You know those outfits we get in seasonal events or the lightning event or the vanity item recipes you get from treasure hunting? Instead of getting things like that in updates LIKE WE'RE ALREADY GETTING RIGHT NOW they'd be in a cash shop for $5-10+ each. The reason a vanity market is a big deal is because there is no reason to have a vanity market. They already give us free vanity items in every freaking update and event. You're literally begging them to strip out content they were already planning to give us for free and slapping a price tag on it because you have this delusion that they'd give us more vanity content than they've already been giving us. How many freaking times do I have to say this until it sinks into your heads?

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Originally Posted by Ikeda

How many freaking times do I have to say this until it sinks into your heads?

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yeah, it is nice to add that line into that wall of text. And I am not here for you sir to be angry/annoying at me so calm your tits.

Anyway when I say it is not a big deal is because SE can add both recipe for vanity ingame while add vanity gear on the market (in other words, 2 sets of vanity). But I guess it is wrong for me to think that way ?

So those who want to make item ingame can make their item ingame while there is an optional vanity on the vanity market.

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Originally Posted by Shneibel

but what is the big deal about that vanity market anyway ? it is optional

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The big deal is that people act like $15 a month is equivalent to a mortgage payment. They would rather pay next to nothing to milk a game until it makes no financial sense to keep alive, and call the game a failure, instead of investing a little extra money for a little "thank you" token in return to help keep a good thing going.

Girl Scouts can survive without selling cookies. We don't need to buy it, but we do to show support. Maybe we should do the same with FFXIV if we want it around for the long term?

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Originally Posted by Zwipe

The big deal is that people act like $15 a month is equivalent to a mortgage payment. They would rather pay next to nothing to milk a game until it makes no financial sense to keep alive, and call the game a failure, instead of investing a little extra money for a little "thank you" token in return to help keep a good thing going.

Girl Scouts can survive without selling cookies. We don't need to buy it, but we do to show support. Maybe we should do the same with FFXIV if we want it around for the long term?

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That example is pointless because Girl Scouts don't charge us monthly ( - . - ;

Isn't a subscription a thank you? And isn't keeping subscribed to the game is "showing support"? Why do you think that if we don't pay extra on top of a sub, that we won't see FFXIV around for a long term? I'm sure that when SE set the subscription price, they took into account that that price is what will keep FFXIV around for a long term...

If you want to "show your support" send your money to SE, I'm sure they will accept it, or buy 10 copies of FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by Delsai

Yah know, they could just increase subs across the board by another $2? However, this is optional and in no way forced upon you.

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loool So basically you're saying we should thank SE for adding a cash shop...

My brain...

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Originally Posted by Shneibel

Anyway when I say it is not a big deal is because SE can add both recipe for vanity ingame while add vanity gear on the market (in other words, 2 sets of vanity). But I guess it is wrong for me to think that way ?

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Why would they do that if they want you to buy it from cash shop?

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Originally Posted by Razzle

"giving" players the option, to spend hours upon hours, hunting/crafting/grinding for a certain item

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Oh yeah I forgot not everyone likes to play the game to get stuff.

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Originally Posted by Doo

Why would they do that if they want you to buy it from cash shop?

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What companies sometimes do (in F2P Games) is "giving" players the option, to spend hours upon hours, hunting/crafting/grinding for a certain item, or have them buy it instantly (which is why they made aquiring the item in-game nearly impossible, in the first place).

And that basically what that player wishes for! :D

So, the $2 for retainer (storage space) is considered a service? Most other games I have played have charged in game currency to expand bank slots, inventory slots, etc. I don't see how a simple in game feature could even be considered an additional service to be charged extra for. Especially when they purposefully bottlenecked armoire storage for event items, etc.

Even SWTOR, as crappy as it was, allowed expanded storage units for in game currency as long as you were paying a sub fee. The "service" of extra storage was added for F2P for a real money charge.

As for 1.0, I really could care less what they did or charged for then. This is 2.0. I think SE is being so cautious about adding server space at their own cost, not ours, that they are making cash shop decisions out of something that should never be considered an additional service to begin with. This is putting aside any P2W arguments that may or may not come to fruition.

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Originally Posted by Doo

Why would they do that if they want you to buy it from cash shop?

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what Razzle said,but not exactly as what I mean. The system is using by GW2 a F2p game with Vanity market. The system goes as player get free item (vanity) from event while they sell other item on the vanity market.

For exampler on Christmas event, player get candy wep skin while they sell wooden skin on market (dont remember clearly about skin), the event are easy as the event in XIV and the skin are the same, none are superior or better than other

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Originally Posted by Shneibel

what Razzle said,but not exactly as what I mean. The system is using by GW2 a F2p game with Vanity market. The system goes as player get free item (vanity) from event while they sell other item on the vanity market.

For exampler on Christmas event, player get candy wep skin while they sell wooden skin on market (dont remember clearly about skin), the event are easy as the event in XIV and the skin are the same, none are superior or better than other

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But this FFXIV:ARR, a P2P game, not GW2, a B2P game (or B2P-F2P hybrid, as I call it). If we wanted to play GW2 we would be doing exactly that. Moreso, some of us left that game because of the horrendous gem shop (it didn't even work like the original GW where they got the money from expansions; heck, they even disregarded making any expasion because of the gem shop).

I'll say it again: F2P features in a P2P game don't make any sense. At all. TSW tried that, and it was crap (the game was fun, tho, especially the investigation missions).

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Originally Posted by Yshnal

But this FFXIV:ARR, a P2P game, not GW2, a B2P game (or B2P-F2P hybrid, as I call it). If we wanted to play GW2 we would be doing exactly that. Moreso, some of us left that game because of the horrendous gem shop (it didn't even work like the original GW where they got the money from expansions; heck, they even disregarded making any expasion because of the gem shop).

I'll say it again: F2P features in a P2P game don't make any sense. At all. TSW tried that, and it was crap (the game was fun, tho, especially the investigation missions).

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*sigh*

What I said is the system they COULD use for vanity market since most ppl say that vanity will only be on vanity market and not get able ingame anymore or vanity ingame will be impossible. God forbid ppl mention system use from other game as an example

edit: beside I only talk about the way the vanity could work if SE add vanity market, I never mean to say it have to be 100% like GW2 and as I am here mean I also quit that game already

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Originally Posted by Shneibel

*sigh*

What I said is the system they COULD use for vanity market since most ppl say that vanity will only be on vanity market and not get able ingame anymore or vanity ingame will be impossible. God forbid ppl mention system use from other game as an example

edit: beside I only talk about the way the vanity could work if SE add vanity market, I never mean to say it have to be 100% like GW2 and as I am here mean I also quit that game already

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I understood what you said. What I mean is that if we wanted said system (even if it's a bit better that just having everything locked behind a cash shop) or any iteration of it, we would be playing a game that already has it. If we're playing this one as it is right now, it might be for a reason.

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Originally Posted by Shneibel

Anyway when I say it is not a big deal is because SE can add both recipe for vanity ingame while add vanity gear on the market (in other words, 2 sets of vanity). But I guess it is wrong for me to think that way ?

So those who want to make item ingame can make their item ingame while there is an optional vanity on the vanity market.

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Wouldn't be profitable in the least. People would just buy the vanity item from other players for gil rather than waste their money on the one in the vanity shop. A vanity shop can't work unless there's exclusive items in it. But adding one will accomplish nothing more than cause a massive drop in player subscriptions and further ruin SE's dwindling reputation.

There's simply no way around this. The only mmo that has ever gotten away with being P2P and slapping a double dipping cash shop on top of it is WoW and that's because the only people still playing it are literally trapped because all developers are either too scared or too stupid to risk making a actual new mmo rather than copy/paste WoW. Every single other mmo that has attempted it has had a drop in subscriptions so massive that they had to dumb down to F2P or shut down altogether or their subscription numbers were already so bad that the double dipping cash shop just finished it off. SE's reputation is already in the gutter as it is. You don't need to make it any worse by convincing them it's "ok" to double dip their customers. All you'll accomplish is digging them deeper into their own hole.

Also that last part of my previous post wasn't necessarily directed just at you. It was directed at everyone suggesting a vanity cash shop (hence the reason I said "heads"). I've already said numerous times why a cash shop isn't necessary and would only manage to bury this game just like pretty much every other P2P mmo that's attempted the same thing but every few pages someone chimes in with essentially "but but but" completely ignoring all my points.

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Originally Posted by Ikeda

People would just buy the vanity item from other players for gil rather than waste their money on the one in the vanity shop.

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Yeah, and even worse, from my experience, games that allow cash shop items to be sold in game are basically selling gil to players in the form of an item. Usuaully those items end up selling for a lot, so if you need easy cash just buy a popular custome and post it on the MB...

Again, it would be understable in an F2P but doesn't make much sense to me in a P2P game.

This retainer debacle wouldn't be an issue at all, at least for people with more than one character slot, if the rare items recovered by ventures are tradable and also if we could mail stuff between our alts but that can arguably be bypassed with a trusty FC bank. It'll be more of a hassle on top of the extra leveling and gearing but you can have all 4 retainer roles split between two characters that way. Venture items will most likely be tradable, or at least I really hope they will be because they could also just go and make them U/U because gotta make a profit. Anyway a lot of people are already mentally prepared either jokingly or seriously for, and some even willing to buy, stuff like Cloud's Magitek Bike or Yuna's Summoner Dress being eventually on the Mog Station for the cheap low price of $14.99 so I wouldn't be surprised at all if that happened one day.

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Originally Posted by Roris

Anyway a lot of people are already mentally prepared either jokingly or seriously for, and some even willing to buy, stuff like Cloud's Magitek Bike or Yuna's Summoner Dress being eventually on the Mog Station for the cheap low price of $14.99 so I wouldn't be surprised at all if that happened one day.

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Why put that crap in a cash shop when they've already set the precedent for putting it as something to earn in a crossover event? The simple fact they ever had the lightning event completely destroys any excuse they could ever have for putting those in a cash shop.

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Originally Posted by Ikeda

Why put that crap in a cash shop when they've already set the precedent for putting it as something to earn in a crossover event? The simple fact they ever had the lightning event completely destroys any excuse they could ever have for putting those in a cash shop.

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They could still do it if they keep following the WoW model, some people would even use an excuse like "well the Lightning event was a free one off thing, you should be grateful for that, stop being so entitled and just don't buy it if you don't like it"

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Originally Posted by Roris

They could still do it if they keep following the WoW model, some people would even use an excuse like "well the Lightning event was a free one off thing, you should be grateful for that, stop being so entitled and just don't buy it if you don't like it"

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Won't work. Only a few idiots would make that excuse for them. Everyone else that doesn't enjoy being ripped off would see it for the cheap cash grab it is and promptly quit the game altogether. WoW is the only mmo that's gotten away with it and it only gets away with it because of the sheer amount of people that play it. A few hundred thousand or 1 million people quitting over the rip off cash shop in WoW barely makes a dent in WoW's playerbase. FFXIV on the other hand doesn't have the luxury. The mass of dropped subscriptions a cash shop would cause could cut its playerbase in half or cause it to lose more than half its playerbase.

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Originally Posted by Ikeda

Won't work. Only a few idiots would make that excuse for them. Everyone else that doesn't enjoy being ripped off would see it for the cheap cash grab it is and promptly quit the game altogether. WoW is the only mmo that's gotten away with it and it only gets away with it because of the sheer amount of people that play it. A few hundred thousand or 1 million people quitting over the rip off cash shop in WoW barely makes a dent in WoW's playerbase. FFXIV on the other hand doesn't have the luxury. The mass of dropped subscriptions a cash shop would cause could cut its playerbase in half or cause it to lose more than half its playerbase.

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I agree, I'd probably quit for real if that happened too, even if I stuck around most others would probably leave too. Let's just hope that never happens but like I said it really wouldn't be a surprise at all if it did, fingers crossed it won't.

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Originally Posted by Razzle

That example is pointless because Girl Scouts don't charge us monthly ( - . - ;

Isn't a subscription a thank you? And isn't keeping subscribed to the game is "showing support"? Why do you think that if we don't pay extra on top of a sub, that we won't see FFXIV around for a long term? I'm sure that when SE set the subscription price, they took into account that that price is what will keep FFXIV around for a long term...

If you want to "show your support" send your money to SE, I'm sure they will accept it, or buy 10 copies of FFXIV.

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Regardless of my example, bottom line is people want extra retainers, but don't want to pay for it. The people complaining are bluntly wanting this but are too cheap. It's an optional service. If you want the benefits of a retainer, then pay. No conspiracy behind it like you make it out to be. My first paragraph says it all.

I mean, seriously, 2 measly dollars a month (24 dollars a year) a 'rip-off'?...a panhandler can afford that. If you have the time and energy to hoard THAT much mats, gear, etc. to need more space than the 2 retainers already provide, you sure as hell have the time and energy to get a part-time job to afford one.

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Originally Posted by Ikeda

Again FFXI has gone for 10 years with no cash shop and has been SE's most profitable game. It's running on about 300k subscribers at most right now. Unless FFXIV some how manages to drop below 100k subscribers they have no business even thinking of a cash shop. Not even a vanity cash shop.

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Most profitable game is merely semantics, the amount of resources poured into FFXIV correlates to the projected growth and ROI, as such you simply can't aim to be the most profitable game in a string of poor performing games.

What I feel is simply that players are against vanity shops simply out of principle, it barely affects the value the game and it feels as though all the doom and gloom views of the future of games are merely using the slippery slope fallacy.

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Originally Posted by Ikeda

You know those outfits we get in seasonal events or the lightning event or the vanity item recipes you get from treasure hunting? Instead of getting things like that in updates LIKE WE'RE ALREADY GETTING RIGHT NOW they'd be in a cash shop for $5-10+ each. The reason a vanity market is a big deal is because there is no reason to have a vanity market. They already give us free vanity items in every freaking update and event. You're literally begging them to strip out content they were already planning to give us for free and slapping a price tag on it because you have this delusion that they'd give us more vanity content than they've already been giving us. How many freaking times do I have to say this until it sinks into your heads?

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There are no guarantees that cash shop items would be implemented in the game if it doesn't have a cash shop.

It is a fallacy to think so

Its like saying BF4 was originally designed to have all its expansion map packs included in the base price but the proliferation of DLC made it that EA sells those map packs to you separately.

Cash shop and its potential revenues can simply be the sole reason said vanity items gets implemented into the game. It is prudent to view SE as a business that seeks to profit from its products.

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Originally Posted by Sessurea

Welcome to MMO forums lol.

I have no problems if they release stuff in a cash shop that doesn't affect in-game balance. The more money they can make, the less likely a f2p change could happen.

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Exactly. Thank you for stating this. But let's face it, it's the ARR general forums. You could say 2+2=4 and people will rage, claim it's OP, swear to god they'll unsubscribe, ect.