Dark Knight - Great Sword or Great Scythe poll

Neither. Just to spite the "I want XI-2 HD!" crowd.

If DRK doesn't vet it then they should add necromancy and give it to them! But really why not make both weapons available to them. You people think farmers never did battle with a scythe before? Never heard of peasants being oppressed so they revolt?

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Originally Posted by Wyvernheart

You people think farmers never did battle with a scythe before? Never heard of peasants being oppressed so they revolt?

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We should have a pitchfork job!

Wyvernheart said what I was about to. Give scythe to a necromancer type class.

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Originally Posted by Wyvernheart

If DRK doesn't vet it then they should add necromancy and give it to them! But really why not make both weapons available to them. You people think farmers never did battle with a scythe before? Never heard of peasants being oppressed so they revolt?

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yeah, scythe guy was the one in the back because he couldn't grab anything remotely useful.

But while we're on the topic I support giving Dark Knight a sword. And then stripping it of the emo black spikey armor. And then taking away the Dark Knight name. Then throwing away all concept art and ideas that might have been put towards making a Dark Knight class and make the Sword Saint class from Final Fantasy Tactics instead.

Anyone else find it intensely irritating when people start talking about the practicality of weapons in a freakin fantasy universe?

Voted scythe^^ However, I am far more concerned with the "Kind" of drk we may receive. honestly, I could care less what it wields, but more so, are the game play mechanics fun?

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Originally Posted by Gamemako

Except that all of them were merely inherited from Black Mage and White Mage. They were rarely used at all, let alone were they featured on Red Mage. Meanwhile, Red Mage attack spells did just as much damage as those cast by their pure-mage counterparts. But let's continue to say what Red Mage actually has a history of doing. In FF3, it just kind of sucked, and in FF5, it earned the Doublecast ability for the express purpose of nuking. In 12i, it could wield a greatsword and use the second-most powerful nuke (Ardor is second after Scathe, which is unique to Black Mages). In TA/TA2, it retained doublecast for nuking. This is not "a support job" and never has been except in landfill-fodder FF11.



I don't think you understand. The portion of people who want or would be anything other than exceedingly annoyed by FF11 RDM are a tiny portion of the player population. You can't please everyone, but you sure can please the vast majority.

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I think you misunderstand. In this game, which feature the trinity. You don't get to have a job that does both healing and damage = to a full healer
and a full DD role. Its unbalanced. A support role, DOES NOT mean it needs to focus solely on support spells. I think this is what you're reading into.

They can either make it full DD, Full Healing, or do something new. Support role =/= support only. It could be healing and damage, but it would
be completely imbalanced to let a job heal and damage "at the same time" just as efficiently as people in those respective roles. It would have to
be weaker in both those roles. This is not an offline game. Rdm would not be able to nuke up there with blm, and heal up there with whm at the
same time. It would need some sort of gimmick or switch. Otherwise this is the same reason DD tanks in other games trivialize DD

For the record, no i dont think it should focus on buffs and debuffs, but you can't claim they didnt exist or play a role. They had their uses
just like any support skills rdm would get in this game would have its uses, not that it should be buff enfeeb centric, and i never said it should be,
I stated that some people liked support stuff, which you did not like hearing.

Pretty sure Yoshi-P mentioned something about Dark Knights in that if they did come back they would most likely NOT be getting the scythe. This was a couple of months ago I believe.

Things can change though. I just think that the Great sword is more interesting than the Scythe. Aesthetically I think you can do more with it than you can with a scythe. Also the lack of a great sword class is of great concern for many people.

I enjoyed both the Scythe and the Great sword for Dark Knights. I wonder if they will have Aspir and Drain spells as well with stat reducing abilities. :)

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Originally Posted by Delsai

I enjoyed both the Scythe and the Great sword for Dark Knights. I wonder if they will have Aspir and Drain spells as well with stat reducing abilities. :)

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I would think than BLM and SMN would get Aspir/Drain spells before DRK. This way Mage Cross Class have more MP recovery. I'd expect DRK to have more raw damage building attacks than anything. Sacrifice HP to deal more damage, lower the HP more damage dealt. Weapon wise, I'd like to see them kept to Sword and Shield. I mean a lot of them are just Knights that use forbidden techniques that require their own health to utilize. They have special swords that were unholy equivalents to most holy relics.

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Originally Posted by Pylfer

Also the lack of a great sword class is of great concern for many people.

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i love Gsword as weapon, but im not really sure if i want a Gsword job in FFXIV. :rolleyes: , well it can be used as filter for Party finder if u know what i mean ;)

loldrk , wannabeclouds everywhere blablbla

Great Sword. Not only for lore reasons, but also because we need a Great Sword class already.

Dark Knight would make a perfect debuff/DPS hybrid, with loots of weakining or even crowd control skills based on his HP levels and HP sacrificing for a bit of damage.

Great swords are for Dark Knights. Scythes are for Botanists.

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Originally Posted by kasuke06

It is my opinion that farming tools belong on a farm, not the battlefield. That is the place for tools that are called weapons.

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i was reading all the comment but did stop because of this one, sorry but you know you are freaking wrong?
some example of farming tool that have become later weapon:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...00px-Kamas.jpg

the Kama, at the start it was a tool for harvest that was changed later in weapon

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...28Parts%29.JPG

"The origin of the nunchaku is unclear, although one popular belief is that nunchaku was originally a short South-east Asian flail used to thresh rice or soybeans." dixit wikipedia.

and you can find a loooooot of example of other farming tool that was transformed in weapon. human can be...quite creative in the way to kill other human, don't doubt it. and they are quite good for make it pratical.

an example of weapon that look quite deadly now, but that was quite unpatrical... the Rapiere, at the start if you look at it, it's not easy to use it. but do the spanish have think the same when they have create a new deadly sword style?

don't be too hasty to judge a weapon from it origine or how you think they can be used.

for come back to the subject, i'm good either with great sword or scythe, but not the sword+shield that some ask. in the old ff it was possible to put a shield almost on all character and jobs, if your remember (you can even do it on bravely default) that means nothing. and if a Dark knight must cast dark spell for cripples and kill him enemy while draining him own hp... him protection is the last of him priority. him main focus will to kill the target before he die of him own spell or damage taken.

It just sad that this Armory system only allows one weapon :(

Samurai Great Katana + Bow
Drk Great Sword + Scythe
Ranger Gun + Bow + Dual Wield

Grrr soooo limited.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

i was reading all the comment but did stop because of this one, sorry but you know you are freaking wrong?
some example of farming tool that have become later weapon:

[

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I pretty much look at it like the WoW crowd hating on FFXI

It's even in Diablo 3 and like what Darksiders? Plenty of games use Scythes for "dark" characters and Dark Knight definitely fits that description.

Great Sword - Tank or DPS

It can be either role. Whatever SE deems necessary and still retain some core lore of the series.

My opinion, not here to join the debate.

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Originally Posted by Volsung

I think you misunderstand. In this game, which feature the trinity. You don't get to have a job that does both healing and damage = to a full healer
and a full DD role. Its unbalanced. A support role, DOES NOT mean it needs to focus solely on support spells. I think this is what you're reading into.

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We're going to start over from the beginning. Complete recap in hidden block:

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Originally Posted by Volsung

RDM will ALWAYS be very polarizing to people. Some like the support stuff (buffs enfeebs)
some like the back up curing abilities, some like that it can do so much, some like the idea
of melee and magic.

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Spot heals are actually a part of the core job design. Magic and melee are a part of the core job design. Support is not. I then responded:

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Originally Posted by Gamemako

Q: In what iteration of Final Fantasy does Red Mage feature buffs and debuffs?
A: None of them except FF11.

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Restated again: Aside from FF11, there are no jobs where these support abilities feature in the design (i.e. are a critical or remarkable part of the design). You then stated that it merely has had support abilities:

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Originally Posted by Volsung

I'm sorry but this statement is not true. Its ok if you dont like the fact it has support stuff, but
the job has had support stuff since FF1.

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to which I again clarified that they do not feature in the design and are simply absorbed as part of the white and black magic sets:

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Originally Posted by Gamemako

Except that all of them were merely inherited from Black Mage and White Mage. They were rarely used at all, let alone were they featured on Red Mage.

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I then went to answer what else does feature in Red Mage designs:

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Originally Posted by Gamemako

...in FF5, it earned the Doublecast ability for the express purpose of nuking. In 12i, it could wield a greatsword and use the second-most powerful nuke (Ardor is second after Scathe, which is unique to Black Mages). In TA/TA2, it retained doublecast for nuking.

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...which is to clarify the specific departure that was FF11's RDM. I then reiterated the unpopularity of FF11's attempts:

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Originally Posted by Gamemako

The portion of people who want or would be anything other than exceedingly annoyed by FF11 RDM are a tiny portion of the player population. You can't please everyone, but you sure can please the vast majority.

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Which brings us to where we are now, which is lot of nothing and the statement that "some people liked [FF11] support stuff". You can say some people about a lot of things, like some people who think Elvis and Tupac are hanging out on an island in the Bahamas.

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Originally Posted by Pylfer

Pretty sure Yoshi-P mentioned something about Dark Knights in that if they did come back they would most likely NOT be getting the scythe. This was a couple of months ago I believe.

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There's really no reason to make a new class. If you want the classic equipment (sword), you use Gladiator. If you want appropriate mechanics, you use Marauder (HP drain, HP pool extension = burst damage resource).

Sword and Shield. DPS job off of GLD. THM as requirement. Make it the mirrored opposite of PLD in reverence of Cecil

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

Snipped

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Okay. I'll put this another way. how do you like your pointy objects: pointed towards the enemy for cutting them, or pointed towards yourself so you can cut yourself and be all emo and deep while you listen to whiny kids who have everything whine about their life and how it's soooo awesome but they hate it.

and the nunchaku might have been a flail for threshing rice. possibly. according to wikipedia. I can literally go and change that right now if I feel like it. It could just as easily have originated by some guy putting a sting through two sticks and deciding not to give up the first time he hit himself in the groin.

the rapier has always been a good weapon. it originated when there was a pressing need to get through lighter armor whilst maintaining ones own speed and leaving the other hand free for such things as pistols, which is what it excels at, being a lighter weapon that can easily thrust through most non-metal armors after you've fired your only shot from your flintlock(or if you're rich, a wheel-lock) pistol/musket.(no, they did not have rifles, as that is a term reserved for long guns with a rifled barrel.)

the scythe meanwhile, excels at being a farmers tool. And convincing the simple that it is better than a real weapon.

Alright let's lay this scythe talk to rest:

Scythes WERE used as weapons, but by peasants who had no means of obtaining proper weapons. A lot of people who study classical swordsmanship always over look this fact because they forget that they are actually practicing what nobles would have learned. Peasants who were drafted into conflicts had to use whatever was available to them, which skews the entire "Scythe as a weapon" debate.

Death also is known to harvest souls so using that as an argument is quite moot. He was literally a farmer, not some bad ass warrior demon that games love to portray him as.

ONE FINAL THING: This is a fantasy game, arguing what's practical and what isn't is a complete waste of time. For example: Dual Wielding is commonly considered as too much effort for very little advantage and was never used on the battlefield. Yet people will literally have a heart attack if THF doesn't dual wield.

All of that being said, I would only want DRK to use a scythe if it were styled better than XI's scythes. THOSE look like farmer's tools, I would prefer a much larger blade. Aside from that: Greatsword or my personal favorite would be Gunblade. I'm in love with the idea of DRK using a Gunblade at close range, storing drained HP in shells that increase attack power when fired at the same time as slashing; not unlike the gunblade system used in FF8.

It need to be a great sword so tanks can block with it as well as parry. Yeah, that's right I said tanks. What? You want more dps classes and longer que times and more threads about how there's a shortage on tanks?

It's been said a few times already but scythes are already in the game as a Botanist tool. As such it stands to reason there would be more work needed to to remove the item from that class only to give it to another. Should a new class of scythes be proposed such as War scythe they were actually reconstructed tools that had more in common with pole arms.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_scythe

As for those that believe that the Dark Knight aspect requires such an ominous harvesting tool for a weapon, once more the job is Dark Knight. Not Death Knight, Necromancer, Flick Reaper, Black guard, or any other combination aforementioned. As a long time fan of the FF series i can.t help but feel many people simply do not know what a Final Fantasy Dark Knight was all about. Just want my Dark Sword, magic, and plate armor back.

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

Great Sword. Not only for lore reasons, but also because we need a Great Sword class already.

Dark Knight would make a perfect debuff/DPS hybrid, with loots of weakining or even crowd control skills based on his HP levels and HP sacrificing for a bit of damage.

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I'm of the opinion that if DRK won't stem from GLA, Ala Mhigo holds the key to a great sword-class and DRK by extension. Their flag has a griffon holding a greatsword, so yeah...

Great Sword

I wouldn't mind a scythe as long they go crazy with the design. Which is what they did not do in FFXI:
The only thing this guy is farming is cabbages.
http://images.wikia.com/finalfantasy...DarkKnight.jpg

Let's face it. SE isn't going to give us huge hulking scythes:
http://i.imgur.com/vbPviUw.png?1

For kasuke I wont bother to itemize this response but as far as "practical" goes declaring a weapon which has a sharp edge only facing the user as "impractical" shows a failure of training depth in that particular weapon and not in it's design.

I might also discuss at length the merits of taking a knife or a sword to a crossbow or rifle fight but that speaks for itself I hope.

You simply made my point for me mentioning large rocks or sticks of any size.

At the end of the day it's a "fantasy game", and trying to define practicality of weapons in a game where people wave their hands and conjur fire out of thin air is a whole other topic in the concept of practicality.

This leads us to the visible fact that you don't like scythes, don't want them in xiv, I get it, they are farm tools.

The next time my blm gf uses ice in some desert environment in xiv, ill remind her how "impractical" it was due to the fact that the humidity is too low.

Some of the Voidsent carry scythes, and I'd imagine a Dark Knight would possibly dabble in that story arc, so the mechanics for the "Farmer's Tool" are there.

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Originally Posted by Wolf_Gang

Great Sword

I wouldn't mind a scythe as long they go crazy with the design. Which is what they did not do in FFXI:
The only thing this guy is farming is cabbages.
http://images.wikia.com/finalfantasy...DarkKnight.jpg

Let's face it. SE isn't going to give us huge hulking scythes:
http://i.imgur.com/vbPviUw.png?1

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Well at least the elvaan is well armored to keep him alive fighting those deadly cabbages, the second picture is going to make Kasuke mad, because it has sharp edges and points facing somewhere else besides the chick.

Anything but 1-hander and shield. Anything.

Some of the Voidsent carry scythes, and I'd imagine a Dark Knight would possibly dabble in that story arc, so the mechanics for the "Farmer's Tool" are there.

Double post, my bad.

My personal preference is for a new greatsword wielding class that splits between 2 jobs, Dark Knight as DPS and Soldier (think Cloud) as Tank.

However, if they want to add it as a Job on the existing classes, then my vote is for MRD > DRK. Then add in Scythes for any DRK specific weapons (like the DRK relic). The MRD skillset would support DRK as DPS very well, and the Bhuj class of weapons for MRD already looks like a Scythe.

I think I'm gonna have to go with a Great Sword or Claymore because lolscythes. I'll tell you what, we can use scythes as weapons around the same time they let us use hoes, pickaxes, and rusty shovels as main class weapons.

I've also never seem a game design scythe animations well. Typically it doesn't even look like the bladed part hits them half the time, the entire thing just swings through their body. The issue with a scythe is to do some damage you would have to end up with your point behind the person mid-swing then pull/bring it down hard enough to cleave into the flesh. Not only would this be awkward as all hell to do in a high-stakes combat situation but it would put you off balance after one swing leaving you open. Weapons with a large degree of curvature to them typically aren't great killing tools especially when the bladed edge is faced towards the user (Scythe, Sickle, etc.) as opposed to a more slight curve that is facing away (Scimitar) which would be MUCH more useful and is used MUCH more often. Unless the weapon curve is slight akin to a scimitar, kris, or kukri it will end up being more of a detriment than an aid.

Sometimes it is a "take what you can get" situation and people have used Scythes in those situations for combat but they also would've used a large rock if they had the option or ANYTHING other than a Scythe if given the choice. I mean you can kill someone with a butter knife but that doesn't mean we should start equipping troops with butter knives or that upon discovery of the first butter-knife related death that scores of armies were fighting each other in the dunes with their new-found deadly butter knife.

I understand that a lot of people like the great sword and all, but at the sometime its very generic. Every mmo has a class with a great sword, lets let ffxiv be different please. Dark knights looks evil and i personally think a scythe suits them more because when you look at a dark knight it is as if you are looking at death itself, when you look at a dark knight with a great sword it becomes less intimidating because he looks like every other add you killed in amdapor keep and we all know those guys aren't scary. But when they wield a scythe you get the feeling that you just walked into a room with the angel of death. This is my opinion so take it as you will :)

just some information about people saying scythe is not a weapon or are unpraticable

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_scythe

indeed if you take the classic farming tool it will be a farming tool (can kill but not efficient) but anything can be turned into weapon. don't forget it.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

but anything can be turned into weapon. don't forget it.

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I want a class where I can stab things with a ballpoint pen. Make it happen SE! :P

OK joking aside, can't be bothered to read every single post from my phone, but I think most people forget that if they wanted a job like DK to wield a scythe or great sword, it would require a new base class first. All jobs wield the weapons of the base class. If you want DK sooner rather than later, it would have to be a sword and shield wielder bases off gladiator class, or pole-arm wielding off the lancer class. If you really want DK or RDM to have different weapons, be prepared to wait a long time for an expansion to add those base classes.

http://i.imgur.com/XVvCYay.jpg

vs

http://i.imgur.com/ZIMIuZs.jpg

ehh probably should of been nightmare not Siegfried but my moneys on Siegfried

one thing, i think too that DK must use Two hand sword, simply i don't like when people say stuff soo... well you see.