60 Minute Time Limit on New Dungeons

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Originally Posted by Draco

You are comparing FFXI Endgame to FFXIV mid game content. Even the rank 45 dungeon, while it might be endgameish now, it will not be an endgame dungeon when PS3 version is released and there is actually a decent population playing this game. How is anyone supposed to take in the scenery of a dungeon and enjoy all the intricacies with a 60 minute time limit.

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if we are lucky its liky nyzul and the time limit makes it even better, if we are unlucky they just rushed a crapy copy pasted cave/instance out and its so boring that its better to rush through so you won't see all the flaws and not interesting things goin on around you.

I hope for the first

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Originally Posted by _C-a-e-r-i-t-h_

It takes place in a dungeon so obviously it's a MMM clone.

Just without the Moblins. Or the mongering.

And it might not be a maze.

But apart from that, totally a MMM rip-off :D

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rofl MUST BE XD

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Originally Posted by _C-a-e-r-i-t-h_

It takes place in a dungeon so obviously it's a MMM clone.

Just without the Moblins. Or the mongering.

And it might not be a maze.

But apart from that, totally a MMM rip-off :D

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What is MMM ?

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Originally Posted by Felis

What is MMM ?

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Moblin Maze Mongers. One of FFXI's later events apparently characterized by having djiggas, skeletons, and orobons.

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Ca...n_Maze_Mongers

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Originally Posted by Richard

because showing a screenshot of djiggas, skeletons and orobons means thats all thats gonna be in the dungeon? how ignorant are you lol. There will be new mobs added with this patch, that can be 100% expected.

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I'm ignorant because i am going off facts rather then speculation? You sir, are ignorant.

Stop complaining before you even know what the dungeons are going to be like.


I'll say it again, you people would complain if SE were giving free blowjobs with this patch. Can we at least wait until the patch is released before complaining about what's in it?

MMM was pretty much the same thing they are releasing now. A short timed dungeon. (without moblins) LOL

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Originally Posted by Seraphita

MMM was pretty much the same thing they are releasing now. A short timed dungeon. (without moblins) LOL

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Moblin Maze Mongers is a system that allows players to create built-to-order dungeons ("mazes") with custom settings and rules, that can be enjoyed alone or together with friends.

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Show me in the lodestone where it says anything of the sort. Just because it is 60 minutes means nothing. Nyzul was only 100 minutes. You aren't going to be generating a dungeon based on your party setup the dungeon is static and will always have the same content. There are multiple conditions to be met to obtain different gear which is more like Nyzul, Salvage (FFXI) and HMs (WoW) than MMM.

Please do keep posting though, you're just making your point seem all the more convincing.

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Originally Posted by Richard

Show me in the lodestone where it says anything of the sort. Just because it is 60 minutes means nothing. Nyzul was only 100 minutes. You aren't going to be generating a dungeon based on your party setup the dungeon is static and will always have the same content. There are multiple conditions to be met to obtain different gear which is more like Nyzul, Salvage (FFXI) and HMs (WoW) than MMM.

Please do keep posting though, you're just making your point seem all the more convincing.

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Thanks for making my point, not only that it is like MMM, but it is also a rip off of every other timed dungeon in FFXI. Way to go Richard! /applaud

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Originally Posted by Richard

There will be new mobs added with this patch, that can be 100% expected.

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100%? Don't be too sure or you might be disappointed.

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Originally Posted by Seraphita

Thanks for making my point, not only that it is like MMM, but it is also a rip off of every other timed dungeon in FFXI. Way to go Richard! /applaud

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uh both timed and untimed dungeons have been games for like 20 years, neither is new. MMM wasnt new when it was made, neither is anything that is untimed.

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Originally Posted by Seraphita

Thanks for making my point, not only that it is like MMM, but it is also a rip off of every other timed dungeon in FFXI. Way to go Richard! /applaud

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oh my god you have to be trolling. no one can be this retarded.

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Originally Posted by Petori

100%? Don't be too sure or you might be disappointed.

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yeah, honestly it is unlikley they will have any/many new mobs other than possibly a boss, even that is just a possibility. Looking at the dungeon pics, they were both in the game since release, and the youtube wall running person went to them from the same place. Also i ve seen the thaum weapon on NPCs already, so they are mostly using existing resources, that were already developed on release, i doubt they will go to far and add a lot of new monsters.

I'm not as concerned with the 60 minute time limit as I am with the reentry cooldown timer. I REALLY REALLY HOPE that they impose at the very least a 24 hour reentry cooldown timer on these.

Since this will probably be the only substantial new content, players are going to be doing these a LOT (assuming that the drops are worthwhile, which I assume they will be, because at the moment making a new item worthwhile isn't hard.) The last thing we need is a short reentry cooldown timer (or no reentry cooldown timer) because then players will just get groups together and spam these dungeons over and over and over and they'll get very boring and monotonous VERY quickly.

If the reentry cooldown timer is at least 24 hours, it'll at least slow the process of it becoming boring and monotonous, which will keep the playerbase distracted longer, giving them more time before the majority of the playerbase becomes restless again.

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Originally Posted by Richard

oh my god you have to be trolling. no one can be this retarded.

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You're all retarded for arguing over something that none of you know anything about yet. just saying...

The only things we really know so far
- there are two dungeons, one for r25-30 the other for 45-50
- we know where the entrances are
- there are pre-requisite quests to get into these dungeons
- there is a 60 min timer for completing the raids
- you can get gear from the dungeons
- we know what 3 pieces of that gear looks like but not the stats


everything else is speculation. can you all shut up about what you don't know already?

Do you forget, perhaps, Salvage, Nyzul? They were all of 60 minutes .... Even Abyssea started from a base of 60 minutes, then if you found the various items you could have a bonus time limit ... Maybe here too there is something like ... as usual you always judge without knowing, give just some time to this patch, don't start to say silly things about it...is not even out yet!

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Originally Posted by Misha

If that was the case FF14 wouldn't be sailing the fail boat still....or even to begin with... Love how people fail to realize that this is a series entry FF... they're not goin all out like they should to fix their mistake, nor looking at what works...stubborn devs just like the current stubborn populace which still plays... So many things in 11 even took over 5 years to add... basic mmo stuff... yes Yoshida is an improvement cause he's more open minded but he's still tied down by his own restrictions... You know its a sad generation when even american gaming/devs passes that of japanese... only hurting themselves though... well themselves and alot of the insecure folks here LoL

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Good this the game isn't being developed for the American gamer then. All the American or Western Gamer wants is items and levels handed to them on a silver platter. Hell if Most of the Western Gamers had it there way they would start the game off with Max level and beat it in a week.

This game is developed by the Japanese for the Japanese, if you dont like it then dont play, It is as simple as that.

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Originally Posted by Richard

oh my god you have to be trolling. no one can be this retarded.

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Please tell me oh godly knowledge base of everything that is SE's non-released information guide.... What is so original about these new dungeons that makes me so retarded? :D

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Originally Posted by Elkwood

This game is developed by the Japanese for the Japanese

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lol @bolded part.

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Originally Posted by Seraphita

What is so original about these new dungeons that makes me so retarded? :D

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Neither of you can answer that, you can't say it's unoriginal, nor completely original. They don't exist in game yet and we have next to no info on them.

again, this is all we know:

- there are two dungeons, one for r25-30 the other for 45-50
- we know where the entrances are
- there are pre-requisite quests to get into these dungeons
- there is a 60 min timer for completing the raids
- you can get gear from the dungeons
- we know what 3 pieces of that gear looks like but not the stats

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Originally Posted by Elkwood

Good this the game isn't being developed for the American gamer then. All the American or Western Gamer wants is items and levels handed to them on a silver platter. Hell if Most of the Western Gamers had it there way they would start the game off with Max level and beat it in a week.

This game is developed by the Japanese for the Japanese, if you dont like it then dont play, It is as simple as that.

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Oh is it? Is that why ITS IN ENGLISH FRENCH AND GERMAN as well?

Dorks. It stands for MMM beer...

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Originally Posted by Sol_Aureus

I'm not as concerned with the 60 minute time limit as I am with the reentry cooldown timer. I REALLY REALLY HOPE that they impose at the very least a 24 hour reentry cooldown timer on these.

Since this will probably be the only substantial new content, players are going to be doing these a LOT (assuming that the drops are worthwhile, which I assume they will be, because at the moment making a new item worthwhile isn't hard.) The last thing we need is a short reentry cooldown timer (or no reentry cooldown timer) because then players will just get groups together and spam these dungeons over and over and over and they'll get very boring and monotonous VERY quickly.

If the reentry cooldown timer is at least 24 hours, it'll at least slow the process of it becoming boring and monotonous, which will keep the playerbase distracted longer, giving them more time before the majority of the playerbase becomes restless again.

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i feel two ways about this, on oneside it can be fresh and last longer witha 24 hour cooldown
on the otherside
24 hour respawn
isnt very casual
tends to lead to statics
makes it not a way of getting sp


there are +s and -s on each side, i could go either way

If you're a decent player, 60 minutes shouldn't be a problem. Time limits were everywhere in FFXI. It's half of what made it's content so intense. I want time limits in this too, because it makes me bust my ass to try and finish whatever I'm doing instead of going too slow and wasting other players' time. It means you need to think fast and efficient in order to get the gear. I liked FFXI because you had to WORK for your gear. Not to say it was like a job, but it was a real challenge to gear most of the actual good gear (back when I played anyway). I understand FFXIV isn't FFXI, but I still want that same challenge. As does everyone on these forums considering the constant crying that this game is too easy.

You complain the game is too easy, then they put a time limit on a dungeon and you scream "BUT OTHER MMO'S DON'T HAVE THOSE. TAKE THEM AWAY, WE SHOULDN'T HAVE TIME LIMITS :("

Also, it's always been a custom of SE to only post a screenshot and show you a small amount of gear in any content they released. Even with Campaign in XI, which ended up being completely awesome, they only showed a screenshot or two, and I don't even remember if they showed off gear. Just gonna have to get used to that.

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Originally Posted by Physic

yeah, honestly it is unlikley they will have any/many new mobs other than possibly a boss, even that is just a possibility. Looking at the dungeon pics, they were both in the game since release, and the youtube wall running person went to them from the same place. Also i ve seen the thaum weapon on NPCs already, so they are mostly using existing resources, that were already developed on release, i doubt they will go to far and add a lot of new monsters.

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true, if they had something to show they would.

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Originally Posted by Physic

i feel two ways about this, on oneside it can be fresh and last longer witha 24 hour cooldown
on the otherside
24 hour respawn
isnt very casual
tends to lead to statics
makes it not a way of getting sp


there are +s and -s on each side, i could go either way

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Yeah, but honestly I think this game needs some content for the core players (Don't get me wrong, I'm a semi-casual player). What this game needs right now is something challenging, which I really really hope these dungeons will be.

I WANT to bitch and moan about these dungeons like I did Nyzul half the time. Why? Because it was challenging, but fun.

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Originally Posted by Kailok

Yeah, but honestly I think this game needs some content for the core players (Don't get me wrong, I'm a semi-casual player). What this game needs right now is something challenging, which I really really hope these dungeons will be.

I WANT to bitch and moan about these dungeons like I did Nyzul half the time. Why? Because it was challenging, but fun.

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i agree, i dont want them to be easy, but that doesnt mean i want a limit placed on how often you can try.

You can have difficult fun content, that you can do as much as you want. Challenge mode in PSO for example. you could repeat it as much as you wanted, hmm if the rewards arent rare ex, and the dungeons are fun, it may be worth it to run it on multi charachters for kicks.

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Originally Posted by Kailok

Yeah, but honestly I think this game needs some content for the core players (Don't get me wrong, I'm a semi-casual player). What this game needs right now is something challenging, which I really really hope these dungeons will be.

I WANT to bitch and moan about these dungeons like I did Nyzul half the time. Why? Because it was challenging, but fun.

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really.... how hard can it be? healers have damn near infinate mana still XD
untill they adress mana costs per cast or maximum mana pools they pretty much made this game a fly through.
FF14 is just like Wrath of the Lich King Content in WoW. FACEROLL!
(heres hoping they change it soon)

just as an idea i think with all the hype they are building over this patch they would show some of the biggest and baddest thinks they have to build interest in the dungeons.

what do they show instead? digga's, orobons, skeletons? really?

i am not saying this is all that will be in there, but with people trying to hype something up they really are dropping the ball big time. i'd want to show some of the screenshots of a small group fighting a nm in there so we look and say "wow yeah that's what i want to be doing". on some point words do not work anymore for building hype. people heard the words and got let down and heard more words and got let down. it's time to actually show people a reason to get excited to see something new.

these dungeons may be fantastic, but the pr department are completely incompetent and unqualified. they are at the very least horrible and at worst case intentionally sabotaging the game at this point. if you want to use a picture or video as showing what is upcoming do not use the most boring and bland picture you can find. show the people something to be excited over.

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Originally Posted by Seraphita

really.... how hard can it be? healers have damn near infinate mana still XD
untill they adress mana costs per cast or maximum mana pools they pretty much made this game a fly through.
FF14 is just like Wrath of the Lich King Content in WoW. FACEROLL!
(heres hoping they change it soon)

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omg a healer can heal a damage dealer omg the horror!!!!!

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Originally Posted by Richard

oh my god you have to be trolling. no one can be this retarded.

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I remember when I used to have faith in humanity.

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Originally Posted by Elkwood

Good this the game isn't being developed for the American gamer then. All the American or Western Gamer wants is Ace Attorney Investigations 2 and Layton vs Ace Attorney to be localized.

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Fixed.

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Originally Posted by Elkwood

Hell if Most of the Western Gamers had it there way they would start the game off with Max level and beat it in a week.

This game is developed by the Japanese for the Japanese, if you dont like it then dont play, It is as simple as that.

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So I take it that Korea is in the West now?

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

just as an idea i think with all the hype they are building over this patch they would show some of the biggest and baddest thinks they have to build interest in the dungeons.

what do they show instead? digga's, orobons, skeletons? really?
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id rather be surprised if there is a cool boss at the end rather then them show him a week ahead of time...

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Originally Posted by Seraphita

really.... how hard can it be? healers have damn near infinate mana still XD
untill they adress mana costs per cast or maximum mana pools they pretty much made this game a fly through.
FF14 is just like Wrath of the Lich King Content in WoW. FACEROLL!
(heres hoping they change it soon)

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ehhh if you fight tough mobs healers mp can suffer, also the amount of monsters at once. and at least in the old battlesystem, poor strategy can wipe you even with healers, for example impish incantions positioned poorly, or 3 puks using tail chase at the same time. Its not all about healing dps versus moster damage in this game. positioning versus multiple mobs can lead to spike damage, or require a caster two groups that arent easily in range. say if you have to split the mobs so AoE doesnt land at the same time, or go in the wrong directions.

course people could just try to rock sleep forever like ffxi, we ll have to see how they handle it, and since this is coming at the same time as battle changes, we really have no clue at all how it will all work

I really enjoy the time limits, and when I saw that these new dungeons were going to have time limits, a little spark of hope fluttered from my heart.

If these "raids" happen to be anything like FFXI's, then I will be extremely excited. I also don't understand why everyone is being so salty about this being (perhaps) more directed towards the hard-core gamer. The idea behind the time limits is to award people who work together, and work together well. A bad group, should in theory not be able to do as well as a good and well put together group. SE is simply rewarding good game play, which is something this game needs.

One thing that we lack right now are goals! We need some hardcore content so we can all work to obtain these goals of ours.

I hate to use this example, however, in XI it took me roughly a year's worth of work to get just a handful of items, but I never complained about it. "Why?" you might ask, well it's because when I actually did get the items I wanted I felt like I joined this elite group of players who had also worked so hard to obtain these near-impossible items. It was FUN (Strong emphasis on FUN).

Right now, any group play is more than welcome in my opinion, we need to start bringing the community closer together, and these raids have just the tools to do it!

Man, it's almost like...like...no MMORPG EVER has imposed a time limit of any kind of content. Damn SE get with the times!

Some of you people I swear lol.

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Originally Posted by Pride

I really enjoy the time limits, and when I saw that these new dungeons were going to have time limits, a little spark of hope fluttered from my heart.

If these "raids" happen to be anything like FFXI's, then I will be extremely excited. I also don't understand why everyone is being so salty about this being (perhaps) more directed towards the hard-core gamer. The idea behind the time limits is to award people who work together, and work together well. A bad group, should in theory not be able to do as well as a good and well put together group. SE is simply rewarding good game play, which is something this game needs.

One thing that we lack right now are goals! We need some hardcore content so we can all work to obtain these goals of ours.

I hate to use this example, however, in XI it took me roughly a year's worth of work to get just a handful of items, but I never complained about it. "Why?" you might ask, well it's because when I actually did get the items I wanted I felt like I joined this elite group of players who had also worked so hard to obtain these near-impossible items. It was FUN (Strong emphasis on FUN).

Right now, any group play is more than welcome in my opinion, we need to start bringing the community closer together, and these raids have just the tools to do it!

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ehhh i felt better naming my cmode weapons and adding effects. a year is too long to acheive something in a game. and spending massive hours doing it. bleh
im all for hard content and time challenges, but something that requires you do the same thing for 365 days, and can only attempt it once every three days, is.... uh..... kind of wack

I don't know if it was mentionned in another post since I just scanned quickly but there is one thing that worries me. The time limit is fine, it has it's good points. What worries me is that there is no talk of level cap. So that means that for the dungeon that requires you to be level 25 to enter there is nothing preventing you from taking 2-3 of your level 50 friends and just hack away your way to the loot. I really wish they would put a level cap (say 30 for the lower dungeon and 50 (of course) for the higher one) because if they don't then,
1: their low level dungeon will just be outdated after day 1 of release
2: the game will start to feel like WoW where every low content because outdated quickly with further content, there will be no strategy involved for the lower content because let's face it, no one will voluntarily turn away a higher level that offer his help.
3: There is no replay value (in terms of challenge and thrills) for the higher level that come and help LS friends.

I know they removed the caps in FFXI from what I heard, but maybe it's because the game is old now but they need to put them in FFXIV if they want the game to survive.

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Originally Posted by Physic

ehhh if you fight tough mobs healers mp can suffer, also the amount of monsters at once. and at least in the old battlesystem, poor strategy can wipe you even with healers, for example impish incantions positioned poorly, or 3 puks using tail chase at the same time. Its not all about healing dps versus moster damage in this game. positioning versus multiple mobs can lead to spike damage, or require a caster two groups that arent easily in range. say if you have to split the mobs so AoE doesnt land at the same time, or go in the wrong directions.

course people could just try to rock sleep forever like ffxi, we ll have to see how they handle it, and since this is coming at the same time as battle changes, we really have no clue at all how it will all work

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i see what you mean but the only means of challenges is when a group of mobs AoEs and your group pretty much gets 1 shot lol (which theres nothing you can do about it for the most part unless you CC, but idiots just wake them or something LOL)

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Originally Posted by Seraphita

really.... how hard can it be? healers have damn near infinate mana still XD
untill they adress mana costs per cast or maximum mana pools they pretty much made this game a fly through.
FF14 is just like Wrath of the Lich King Content in WoW. FACEROLL!
(heres hoping they change it soon)

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/sigh... I'm sorry but I've seen quite a few of your posts on the forum now and all of them have made me roll my eyes. Mana regeneration may be faster now for mages, but in a tough fight where for example you have the difficulty up maybe slightly too high, and your tank is keeping hate on two or three mobs, and the thing does annoying AoE damage spells/abilities and as a mage you are trying to heal, rebuff, sleep/crowd control etc and the fight drags on.... then yes mp can get pushed to the limit. If dungeons are like that, then "how hard can it be?"- with a single healer it could be quite a challenge depending on the situation.