Please show some respect.

If a baker bakes bread that's a little stale and not very tasty, I simply won't buy his product anymore. I'm not going to compliment and appreciate what the baker is doing if his product isn't good. Same goes for any game.

For the meantime though, I'm okay with the taste of this bread. I just don't like eating it every day.

Have I been disrespectful...lately?

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Originally Posted by Atheena

People have the right to complain if they are paying for a service! I do believe there should be some control over violent and hatred comments!

But to say people should stay quiet and Let Yoshida do his job is non-sense! If it wasn't for the complaining then 1.0 would have still been around!

Can I Make a game better than Yoshida? Yes just give me a few 10's of millions of dollars and a staff and we would get to work...!

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I doubt you read the post you yourself quoted...

Vasher, I hope you don't feel like your post was in vain. It doesn't matter how many negative Nancys say that there are too many threads like this, or that there is no point to this. I would wager that most people hear you and understand what you are trying to convey. Just look at your "Thumbs Up" count for confirmation. We can somewhat sum up the naysayers like this:

1- Self centered, apathetic people who feel paying 15$/month affords them any kind of behavior towards game developers.

2- People who have no clue what it means to put enormous effort and personally devote yourself to working on a project for often years at a time for an ungodly amount of hours per week. As a developer, you give a crap what the reception and criticism is and you can definitely be affected by community feedback. Developers aren't made of stone, and as crazy as it might seem, are often gamers with the same sensibilities we have. See point 1 for apathy.

3- People who don't see the point in promoting noble actions because you can't convert 100% of the masses, and through some gloomy vision of society, decide to derail this thread and attack you. The kicker is when they have the nerve to try to pull a "Pot.Kettle.Black" argument on you for addressing their rudeness and Off-topic rants in turn.

Constructive criticism and respect beat rage and insults ANY DAY!

+1 for the OP!

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Originally Posted by Vasher

When in my post did I ever mention company execs?

I was asking for people to have a little respect, and appreciation for CREATIVE TALENT.

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What creative talent? All these characters came from another game, FF games use a world based around previous FF games, most all aspects of this game can be seen in other MMO's exactly what did they do that not everyone else has done already?

Hell even when someone asks for change to something the reply you see most is "All MMO's do this."

Regardless of how players apparently treat the devs, anyone who believes this game will survive 2 years if it continues in this direction is just fooling themselves. Being nicer or meaner isn't going to change it.

+1 and agreed. people just don't understand that you can provide feedback (including negative feedback), without sounding rude/selfish/disrespectful

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Originally Posted by Skotie

What creative talent? All these characters came from another game, FF games use a world based around previous FF games, most all aspects of this game can be seen in other MMO's exactly what did they do that not everyone else has done already?

Hell even when someone asks for change to something the reply you see most is "All MMO's do this."

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See point #2 in the post above yours. That's you. "Creative talent" was meant as a broad term and is reflected in numerous aspects of making a game (art, game design, audio design, tech) - not just the base brand design and lore. The fact that it uses tried-and-true concepts from a legacy of past MMO's doesn't make the endeavor any less considerable.

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Originally Posted by Trell

See point #2 in the post above yours. That's you. "Creative talent" was meant as a broad term and is reflected in numerous aspects of making a game (art, game design, audio design, tech) - not just the base brand design and lore. The fact that it uses tried-and-true concepts from a legacy of past MMO's doesn't make the endeavor any less considerable.

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Well if by creative talent you mean the ability of copying ideas others have already use time and time again I suppose your right. Should I applaud their ability to put ideas others already used into their own brand of MMO then? O sorry /clap.

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Originally Posted by Skotie

Well if by creative talent you mean the ability of copying ideas others have already use time and time again I suppose your right. Should I applaud their ability to put ideas others already used into their own brand of MMO then? O sorry /clap.

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I don't think this means what you think it means.

Sorry I don't find waiting in a town and clicking on duty finder or looking for a PUG group while waiting all day as interesting as I should.

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Originally Posted by C-croft

I don't think this means what you think it means.

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If we are looking at creative talent the way Trell wants us do it means just that, the ability to create. See when I think of creative talent I think of original ideas. So if nothing in this game is original why should I show respect for the creative talent of a copying machine?

Vasher gets a gold star for trying to make a positive thread

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Originally Posted by Vasher

Most of what I see are complaints, passive aggressive insults, and selfishness.

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I had a post already written up but the lovely forum mechanics limited my daily post and text count.

short version: Good job devs on the game. I enjoy the outdoor areas and exploring them. The fantastic storyline and dialog from NPC. The armor in the game looks really nice and diverse. Keep it and never stop improving!

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Originally Posted by Skotie

If we are looking at creative talent the way Trell wants us do it means just that, the ability to create. See when I think of creative talent I think of original ideas. So if nothing in this game is original why should I show respect for the creative talent of a copying machine?

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I still don't think it means what you think it means.

You are implying that everything is this game is a carbon copy of everything else. Yes, all models are based of sprites and textures. Yes, all MMO's have music. Some even use flutes and chorus too. SE uses a launcher for its MMO, the audacity. See where I am going with this.

There are some things that have been lifted or modified from other MMO's. No one is disputing this. What they are saying is that someone sat down and created the music, textures, coding, text, UI, etc. Sure, it may have buttons like WoW. I'm not sure if you thought SE was going to create a gesture based skill/casting system. Either way, someone sat down and created ARR from the ground up(basically). THAT is the creative talent people are referring to. Not just some quests, interfaces and mechanics. The whole picture... That's a very basic summation of the creative talent. I mean if you really need more information, I can always edit this post, but I would rather not if you are still going to say all of it is a ripoff of someone else's code.

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Originally Posted by Skotie

If we are looking at creative talent the way Trell wants us do it means just that, the ability to create. See when I think of creative talent I think of original ideas. So if nothing in this game is original why should I show respect for the creative talent of a copying machine?

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To be clear, I gave you what I believe to be Vasher's use of the term. I felt it was probably meant in a broader sense than just game concept and design, which I assume is what you are emphasizing on, correct? So for argument's sake, let's take your approach.

I think the standard you hold this game up against is a little unfair. There are thousands of excellent games that borrow from the past and existing genres. If you don't like the game and it's creative direction, that's one thing, and I think we all agree that there are plenty of improvements the game should get. However, I would contend that these developers have done a lot of things right too. Just how improbable the success of this game has been is a testament to their hard work. The OP is just asking people to consider that before they take a giant **** on these guys in these forums instead of offering some constructive criticism and a modicum of good will.

As for new ideas, you can try to spend millions and revolutionize MMO's and hope to catch lightning in a bottle, or you can take the tried and true, execute and polish it to a high standard, which is what I think SE has done quite well. The merits of their creative direction can be argued. The shear effort and devotion put into making this iteration of the game cannot. I think that deserves some respect.

Full stock of popcorn... this is the same as see PS4 VS XboxONE

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Originally Posted by Trell

-Snip-.

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There is always less risk of using ideas that worked well before but few things in this game truly stand outs to make it unique. The few elements of the game that felt like they were going to be different are made pointless. They made a wonderful crafting system then make the whole system obsolete, because some people don't like crafting so we should all have to gear via dungeons right? They allow you to level all classes on one character then make it pointless as you cannot effectively keep multiple classes equally geared because of lockouts. These two things alone would have been enough to keep me playing for awhile but they may as well be a slap in the face because they don't work the way they should. What is the point of having multiple classes when only one or maybe two can be geared enough to enjoy the content? What's the point of crafting when your better off using quests and dungeon gear along with making alts due to the lockout issue?

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Originally Posted by Skotie

There is always less risk of using ideas that worked well before but few things in this game truly stand outs to make it unique. The few elements of the game that felt like they were going to be different are made pointless.They made a wonderful crafting system then make the whole system obsolete, because some people don't like crafting so we should all have to gear via dungeons right? They allow you to level all classes on one character then make it pointless as you cannot effectively keep multiple classes equally geared because of lockouts. These two things alone would have been enough to keep me playing for awhile but they may as well be a slap in the face because they don't work the way they should. What is the point of having multiple classes when only one or maybe two can be geared enough to enjoy the content? What's the point of crafting when your better off using quests and dungeon gear along with making alts due to the lockout issue?

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Hey, don't put words in my mouth! I never said "-Snip-."!

I can't personally disagree with anything you said there, and these points have been rightfully brought up many a times. I just tend to think that if they do listen to user feedback, SE will be more receptive to something like what you just wrote than "SE, U SUCK!!1 FIRE ALL UR STAFF!!!11". That's the whole point of the original post in this thread. :)

EDIT: I will say that the crafting is one part that does stand out (refer to sig for personal appreciation). Let's hope they give it more importance in the future.

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Originally Posted by Trell

Hey, don't put words in my mouth! I never said "-Snip-."!

I can't personally disagree with anything you said there, and these points have been rightfully brought up many a times. I just tend to think that if they do listen to user feedback, SE will be more receptive to something like what you just wrote than "SE, U SUCK!!1 FIRE ALL UR STAFF!!!11". That's the whole point of the original post in this thread. :)

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Yeah, but how many people who actually had an opinion that they wanted to be taken seriously has actually said things along that line? Not a whole lot.

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Originally Posted by Virgil

Yeah, but how many people who actually had an opinion that they wanted to be taken seriously has actually said things along that line? Not a whole lot.

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It's unlikely to be heard ether way if you ask me. Many people have brought up arguments about crafting and they still say they have no plans to change anything.

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Originally Posted by NeruMew

No casting while moving is super common around games, has been common for a long long while. If we could cast and move our spells would also be weaker (since they would balance it towards you not haing to stop casting). It's fun, and nice for a change, but this is not the game that does it! (I think in GW2, a current game, you can do it.. among some others I don't know of).

Garuda's jump is her spell? Why is it wrong for her to be untargattable if she's far up in the air where no one can see her?? She becomes inmune after to keep people from beating on her and getting her lower, they could add more hp to her. Honestly it wouldn't make a difference. Plus it's fun that she does jump, and you have to "be careful" not to eat her feathers in da face.

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I would prefer if you stand still your spells are more powerful, and if you run you still cast the spell but obviously less powerful.That would easily fix the problem with having to constantly move during the Titan fight and stop casting. Maybe a 20% reduction to spell damage if you move during the cast.

You misunderstand the glitch. When Garuda jumps she doesn't reappear at all. Some of my guildmates are still attacking her and can see her as she moves when the tornados start to move. I can not. I can't see her or target her. If I target a friend who is attacking her, even her name doesn't show up. She will not reappear on my screen until she jumps again.

(posterity)

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

It's hard not to complain when this game does some many things wrong.

Black Mage not being able to move and cast, and then they have fights like Titan where you move a lot. It's stupid.

Garuda jumping into the air and becomes unable to be targeted until the next time she jumps.

When my spells get interrupted for no reason, the mob is infront of me, I am not silenced or paralyzed, but I get interrupted somehow like 4 times in a row.

You clip through the floor.

Edit: Oh loooook a new glitch, Crystal Tower. "Target is too far away" yet I am next to the tank staring right at the mob.

I can go on, but you get the point.

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Why do you even play the game then? And lol at black mages being able to move while casting. No, just no. They're already one of the best (if not best) DPS in the game

I would like to point out that players should be nicer to eachother, moreso to new players.
I'm new to the game (not the mmo universe) and usually I get to group up with nice people in dungeon etc.
But there are these "elitists", that despite of if someone says they are new to the dungeon,
these elitist as I'd like to call them, dont really care for chatting up a storm regarding tactics so we can safely go through the instance, but instead starting to shout "F**king morons" when we wipe at bosses.

Yeah I do get that some of you probably just want a quick guildhest to get your tomes or company seals, but still there are ppl who are really new to the game, and wish to be treated like people, not idiots.
We are not in 5th grade right?

I'll gladly give my commendations to the one who's been extra helpful in dungeons or other things, or even give up a piece of desired loot!
Cause if you explain how to do certain bosses, it means I can do my job better/right from the beginning.

From the polygon article -

"It's important to listen to fans about what's important to them, but it's equally important to listen to people who are not currently gamers about why they aren't playing. Hardcore gamers want a product that is made specifically for them and is actively unfriendly to anyone new. They will beg and bully to get this product and then praise and wax nostalgic over any game that lives up to their standards even if the company that made it went bankrupt. They don't care about keeping companies in business or artists employed. Their only job as fans is to say what pleases them, and it would be foolish to expect them to think beyond that. But to cater to those desires without thinking about how to bring new audiences in and make them comfortable will ultimately result in a stagnant and money-losing industry.

Very true.

People come to forums because they have an issue with something or there is something bothering them. Perhaps they have ideas on how to improve something or perhaps they're frustrated with the product they're paying for; either way, they come to the forums to vent. It's what forums are here for.

The truth is, not many people want to post on a daily basis how much fun they're having. It would soon become boring and repetitive.

These developers are doing alright. They're working in an industry that a lot of people here would love to work in and they're also working for one of the best gaming companies. They're paid to do something that a lot of people here would do for free, I'm sure they can handle a bit of forum whining.

So... anyone remember Yoshis response to warriors being to weak, or the lag issue?

Sure, it wasn't "you sux, go die!". But it wasn't really respectful either.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Synapse

snip

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You have clearly misunderstood me, although I thought my post was clear enough. I guess my written English is not good enough :/
Anyways, I'll try to do my best at this. I'm not talking in any way about not giving feedback; hell, they have encouraged us to do so. I'm talking about giving that feedback in a disrepectful way just because we are the customers paying their wages. Pretty simple, isn't it?
Give feedback (the more, the better), be it positive or negative, but remember you're dealing with people, not furniture of your own.

The thing is, you dont have to say anything about what is good, it runs as it should. What gets to people and therefore gives out a bad image as to being always negative is that the only way we have or one of the few ways we have to say when something is not working right are the Forums. Not only to inform us all, but also to let the progameurs/owners of the game know that something is not right. In here, they get the full pool of what is wrong. They dont need to know what works but they do need to know what is not working.

Disrespect is somethign that you cant control, not everybody has the same understanding on what is respectufl and isnt. Backgrounds are also not all the same therefore we do not think all the same, respect is also do accept others for what they are, respect is earned you know, is not something that comes automatically.

Just me though

Mei

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Argurios

From the polygon article -

"It's important to listen to fans about what's important to them, but it's equally important to listen to people who are not currently gamers about why they aren't playing. Hardcore gamers want a product that is made specifically for them and is actively unfriendly to anyone new. They will beg and bully to get this product and then praise and wax nostalgic over any game that lives up to their standards even if the company that made it went bankrupt. They don't care about keeping companies in business or artists employed. Their only job as fans is to say what pleases them, and it would be foolish to expect them to think beyond that. But to cater to those desires without thinking about how to bring new audiences in and make them comfortable will ultimately result in a stagnant and money-losing industry.

Very true.

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We saw what happened to WoW when they started to cater to "new audiences"...6 million subscribers lost.

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Originally Posted by KupoNuts

We saw what happened to WoW when they started to cater to "new audiences"...6 million subscribers lost.

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End of discussion

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Originally Posted by Vasher

This is a video game, not a government, please get real lol..

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It's a video game and a group who makes them, but you want people to be as respectful as if they're meeting royalty or something.

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Please go create a better game if you think you can.

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This is the worst argument you can make.

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Or try to run a government

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Didn't you just say this is a video game and not a government?

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Originally Posted by Ricky

In this thread: Lightning haired Miqo'tes

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Also in this thread: rude people being rude to other rude people, who are then rude in retaliation to the rudeness of the first rude person.

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Originally Posted by Gevvy

No, that's the entire game.

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Pretty much.

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Originally Posted by KupoNuts

We saw what happened to WoW when they started to cater to "new audiences"...6 million subscribers lost.

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WoW didn't lose 6 million subscribers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vasher

You seemed to have missed the point entirely.

You can have negative feedback without being disrespectful, and it doesn't hurt to show some appreciation for the hard work developers do.

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The appreciation is given when we pay monthly sorry to say. While i do know making a game isn't very easy, but that is what they signed up for. There are a lot of jobs that are not easy, infact when i was in the army i was averaging how much i was paid every two weeks divided by the time worked. It actually came to about $2.73 an hour. Do you think Yoshi P would work for that much? They're paid very well to deal with this kind of stuff. While i agree people should atleast be polite @ the very least, because to me, respect is earned not given. If they can show they're driven by more than greed that would be a great start.

Don't worry OP, I agree with you.

I always thought game forums were mainly a place for the community to have discussions and be social with one another. These days the forums are just a cesspool of disrespect, childish trolling, and verbally abusive complaints.

I am not saying not to voice your dissatisfaction. Just make an attempt to be professional about it.

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Originally Posted by Krimzon

Why do you even play the game then? And lol at black mages being able to move while casting. No, just no. They're already one of the best (if not best) DPS in the game

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Why do I play, because I would like to see it become better obviously.

Black Mage used to be able to cast and move in 1.0, then developer made us stop for the sake of PVP before it was even out. If Titan is the only move intensive fight, then I won't really care. But if they keep adding fights like that, you are gonna effectively kill black mage damage.

Funny how you ignored the rest of my other serious game breaking glitches.

What is the point of this thread, there is such a thing as constructive critism

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Originally Posted by KupoNuts

We saw what happened to WoW when they started to cater to "new audiences"...6 million subscribers lost.

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But there are not 6 million of hardcore gamers.
Games intended for hardcore gamers don't usually even break the million seller.

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Originally Posted by XNihili

But there are not 6 million of hardcore gamers.
Games intended for hardcore gamers don't usually even break the million seller.

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You must be new to MMORPGs. "Hardcore" MMOs thrived up until the genre became more mainstream - Almost every MMO prior to 2005 was 'hardcore' in some sense.