Roll Over Minutes for Tomes Please

But are we honestly at a point in "P on the pedestal" that when the ONLY requirement to getting the best gear in the game is to run the easiest, shortest dungeon 10 times a week, each week, that we cant even just shut up and do that one thing without crying that something isnt fair? thats all you have to do, simply 10 a week, each week. it doesn't count if you aren't there, no special treatment.

But there is nothing wrong with the OP asking for it. That is up to SE.

Uh-huh, and lets get "roll over access to coil". You guys will ruin this game.

I dont see what the big problem would be with the OP's idea, other than some people get upset anytime anyone suggests anything other than the status quo.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by omniwaink

Yeah, cause we all know there is zero content for people in 2.1 that don't have full Myth gear. The game is basically unplayable if you've been gone two months.

This would also be good for people in comas, people that don't have accounts yet, etc. No one should have to put any time into this game; you should just be able to log on at any time and have access to everything.

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I get the impression you didn't actually read the OP, nor intend to...

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Originally Posted by Shioban

You missed my point.

They're asking for the game to change to suit their personal lifestyle, it sounds 'rude' in a way to say 'tough luck this is how the game works', but its the truth.

If I go on holiday, or can't pay for the game I don't expect them to bend their rules/restrictions to suit my own lifestyle.



Maybe I didn't make the point clear, its a similar circumstance, not identical.

You're asking them to change something, based on your work. It's not the same scenario, but a similar one.

Do the vast majority suffer this issue? No.

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lmao, the game already does this..... Why you think its so casual? To cater to a casual life style.

I think SE should implement some sort of system to get lost time back.

I get what you are saying OP but why do you need to catch up to other players? There's no real life reward for being on the frontlines. Maybe if you have friends that want to play with yuo and yuo can't, I can understand that, but other than that, just play at your own pace. Somebody is ALWAYS going to be ahead of you no matter what you do.

Myth Gear = Allagan gear.

Since you can do Coil in i70 gear, You can never really "be so far behind its unplayable"

Myth gear helps people unable to do Coil often, or get bad luck on drops to upgrade to Coil level gear. It also generally looks awesome, so Vanity is another reason.

Once we get Crystal Tower in 4 days, You would only ever be, at worst, 10 item levels behind the most cutting edge Coil Raiders. And that is hardly unplayable.

Doesn't really seem needed, and this is coming from someone who took a 2 month break.

If I could just login after 2 months and grind out all my AF2, I wouldn't have a whole lot of reasons to log back in.

roll over mins for tomes?


wait 4 it..........





nooooo waiiiiiiit 4 it!!!!!!



now!!!!! bwahhhhhh baawwwwawawawawawahhhhhhhhhh lololololo0ol!!!!!!!!

play the game or GTFO... put in the time, get ur shit.... take a "break" well we all no what happens then.. i wasnt gonna renew my sub but then i thought to myself, ill miss 2 weeks( why?).. shitty story short, if u cant keeep up,,,,, U CANT KEEEEEP UPP.

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Originally Posted by Nura

I think a Cap Increase Eache week for thoes who have a PAID subscription but are not able to play is totally ok.
When I need to go to Afghanistan again for 6 Month I won't be able to play at all.
And 6 Month? Try to catch that up if you are limited to 300 a week.

Basicaly if you are logged out a week without loging in once you should get the Maximum to 600 for the next week and if you fail to login that week you should get 900 the week after.

And of course you get reset as soon as you use that raised Cap. And only when you have a paid Subscription. My Accounts holds 164 Days of Subscription ATM.

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I wouldn't be surprised if they release new gear with new ilvls every 6 month, put a limit on how fast you can earn that and remove the limit from the previous tier of gear so you can earn it freely.

So in another 3-4 months with 2.2 they'll probably release the ilvl 100 gear with a different set of tokens, and they'll remove the cap off myth.

You know how we all look back on old posts we've made when we were younger and thought "Wow, I was really stupid back then.."?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SiinZ

roll over mins for tomes?


wait 4 it..........





nooooo waiiiiiiit 4 it!!!!!!



now!!!!! bwahhhhhh baawwwwawawawawawahhhhhhhhhh lololololo0ol!!!!!!!!

play the game or GTFO... put in the time, get ur shit.... take a "break" well we all no what happens then.. i wasnt gonna renew my sub but then i thought to myself, ill miss 2 weeks( why?).. shitty story short, if u cant keeep up,,,,, U CANT KEEEEEP UPP.

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This is probably one of those posts.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pyretta_Blaze

I wouldn't mind if the weekly cap for ToM could grow for each week you didn't have a chance to play, kind of like a rested bonus. However if you aren't able to play you are going to get left behind those who are playing. IMO thats the way it should be.

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This is the issue, the game dosent know you didnt have the chance to play or what have you. If this type of system is put in it will be abused, so honestly no to this type of system. If you dont log in and do the runs you should not be rewarded or given the opportunity to play catch up. If you want the myth than log in, if you have real life to attend to well thats life you need to deal with it. Real Life comes 1st period. If this was an offline game and you did not play for a week do you think the game is gonna give you free tomes for not playing? You all know the answer i NO so you should expect the same answer here.

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Originally Posted by EmeraldSerenade

Doesn't really seem needed, and this is coming from someone who took a 2 month break.

If I could just login after 2 months and grind out all my AF2, I wouldn't have a whole lot of reasons to log back in.

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I like how no one quoted this person. Let me fix that.

Guess I shouldnt be surprised on this forum that so many are against this idea. So mamy elitists worried about their epeen. If someone continues paying their sub they should have the chance to make up tomes. Nobody wants them for free. They still have to put in the same amount of time to EARN them. This system gives an incentive to actually stay subbed instead of canceling which benefits everyone since SE is making more money.

I work 12 hour swing shifts and work more days 1 week than the next. 1 week I usually dont have time to cap myth but the next I have too much time and hit cap. Why cant I make up the lost ones from the previous week when I have time? Because it woud lessen someones epeen?

The point of the cap is to stop no lifers from getting 5000 tomes a week, not to make casuals lose their tomes forever that they paid a sub for.

[QUOTE=Ulathskullsplitter;1655200] snip

No the point of the cap is not as you said. The point of the cap is to make the content or gear last longer. What you are asking for is easy mode. If you dont log in why should you get free tomes? Why dont they just give you an auto play options as well this way you dont have to do anything but watch TV. Regardless if you can or cant log in everyone is on a level playing field, so unless you choose not to log in or have real life issue's than you dont need anymore hand outs. So again when you play offline games you dont have the option you are asking for. I also said the system that is being requested could/would and can be abused. Therefore I am sure you can log in once a day or 1 day a week to cap your tomes it isnt hard to do that.

SO you are telling everyone you work 7 days a week every week and cant find anytime to log in? I highly doubt you work 7 days a week 12 hours a day, yes you work but probably not to that extreme or as others have said maybe this game isnt for you seeing you DONT have time to log in 1 day a week.

We're back arguing about "free" tomes again, man I wish people could read. Would make discussions on the internet so much easier.

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Originally Posted by Maxthunder

NO U CANT HAZ FREE TOMES

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Uhm are you even reponding to the correct thread or read any of it? Please show me where I or anyone else asked for FREE tomes. Rolling over the cap does not equal being given free tomes. You still have to run wp/ak the same exact amount of times as if the tomes were capped every week. How is there a difference between getting 300 tomes 1 week and 300 the next or not being able to play 1 week and getting 600 the next? Both players still only got 600 tomes for the same exact amount of work. Nobody was handed anything. Everyone is paying a sub. Why should some be penalized for not being able to cap during a week and losing those tomes forever?

Most days, due to my work schedule, I work from the afternoon until late evening. The time I have before work, I spend washing my clothes, eating food, walking my dog, working on other various tasks I need to get done, and preparing for work in general. The times I do have to play, which are not often, I'm not int he right mindset to be grinding dungeons. On days off or days when I get home early, due to the hard work I was performing beforehand, I typically just want to relax and enjoy myself, so I do things like work on crafting, gathering, and leveling other classes. Something that doesn't require so much of my attention.

However, I can be pretty competitive. I see all these people with this high-end gear and I want to reach their level. So I do put in the time to grind some dungeons here and there, but I'm patient enough to allow myself to get the rest I need from work before I do. When the time comes that I get my head in the game and am prepared to grind my eyes out, it'd be great to have the roll-over so I can, at least slightly, make up for lost time. I don't have the time or mindset to play at a hardcore level whenever I'm off from work. I'm just a normal guy, after all.

Also, I'm terrible at explaining things, so forgive me if I contradict myself at all.

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Originally Posted by Vensaval

Most days, due to my work schedule, I work from the afternoon until late evening. The time I have before work, I spend washing my clothes, eating food, walking my dog, working on other various tasks I need to get done, and preparing for work in general. The times I do have to play, which are not often, I'm not int he right mindset to be grinding dungeons. On days off or days when I get home early, due to the hard work I was performing beforehand, I typically just want to relax and enjoy myself, so I do things like work on crafting, gathering, and leveling other classes. Something that doesn't require so much of my attention.

However, I can be pretty competitive. I see all these people with this high-end gear and I want to reach their level. So I do put in the time to grind some dungeons here and there, but I'm patient enough to allow myself to get the rest I need from work before I do. When the time comes that I get my head in the game and am prepared to grind my eyes out, it'd be great to have the roll-over so I can, at least slightly, make up for lost time. I don't have the time or mindset to play at a hardcore level whenever I'm off from work. I'm just a normal guy, after all.

Also, I'm terrible at explaining things, so forgive me if I contradict myself at all.

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I'm in pretty much the same boat, I work 60+ hours one week and 24+ the other (they are the mimimum but sometimes overtime is required) I live alone and run my own house so I have plenty to do after work, especially on my busy week. During my quiet week I get plenty of time to play and that's when I like to do dungeons, when I'm rested and alert enough for it. During the few hours I get to play on a busy week it's best if I just craft or farm or whatever. Over a two week period I probably put in as many hours as most people and certainly more than the Monday night only club. Why is it such a crime for the game to be just a little bit more flexible to people who just don't get 5 hours a night to play video games?

I understand theorizing for fun on the forums, but this wont be implemented any time soon because, like others have stated, this system can be abused to "get gear for not playing the game".

I understand that the tome count comes out to be equal, however, the only system ever used in games is boosted xp for time logged off, never gear or gear currency (then why play at all). As Yoshi has stated, when new content comes out, it will require dedication to complete, as newer patches get released, said content will gradually become easier and easier to access. I dont run Tome content every week religiously because I am not that type of player. Currently, Tome grinding is focused on people who track their progress week after week. I am not that target. So , as a result, I miss some weeks. But I am cool with that. I have Uni and such to attend to so its not that big of a deal to me.

That being said, honestly, what is the point of getting access to AF2 at the same rate as someone who plays every monday and caps tomes? Odds are that person will be itching to run Coil whereas you might not even care. I mean are you the type of player that Has skype, mumble, Teamspeak and are willing to talk (or be talked to) by strangers each week for the sake of phat loot? If not, then relax and admit you are looking to get Myth Gear for the vanity of it all and thus the time saved by a rollover is inconsequential.

I don't understand what's so outragious with the OP's idea.

I see no one complaining about stacking leves so that if you didn't do 6 leves today, you can do 12 tomorrow. Why should other caps be any different?

Leves are capped at 100, just put some "max cap" for tomes if you're scared casuals/RL-busy people might gear up too fast (that's laughable since it won't be as fast as someone who's been playing this whole time anyway, duh). They will have to put the same amount of effort to gear up anyway, since they will have to run the same dungeons as everyone, the same amount of time as anyone.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EmeraldSerenade

Doesn't really seem needed, and this is coming from someone who took a 2 month break.

If I could just login after 2 months and grind out all my AF2, I wouldn't have a whole lot of reasons to log back in.

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This is obviously a major concern with implementing a system that accumulates/rolls over your mythology tome weekly allocation. There are serious problems with getting players to log on consistently if they could concentrate a month or more worth of tome grinding into the spawn of a day or two. Indeed, why would players remain subscribed if they can let their account lapse for a few weeks or even months and then come back fresh?

On the other hand, the system that currently exists heavily, if not severely, disincentives players who've missed the weekly reset from logging back in. As the OP explains, they are permanently behind other players (especially their friends and FC) and can not ever catch up.

In addition, the lockout on the Binding Coil would still act as a strong counterweight to implementing a "rollover" tome system (and in 2.1, the weekly Extreme Mode primal lockout). Given that mythology equipment is immensely above the equipment requirement for all current content besides Coil (and EM Primals), players will be strongly incentivized to maintain their subscription. The next closest demanding content is Crystal Tower and Titan HM, the former has an item looting lockout and the latter is an undesirable headache to a vast majority of players. This argument is clearly debatable but I don't see evidence to the contrary.

As the general population becomes better equipped, the demand on players, even in Duty Finder, rises steadily. SE obviously recognizes the gap in player achievement across the casual-dedicated gradient and that is why they are implementing the Duty Roulette. Another instance of this is the max number of leve allowances you can save: 99, which represents over two weeks worth of missing leves, in order to let low level players, crafters, and harvesters to catch up.

A weekly reset on myth tomes is antithetical to the philosophy of bridging the casual-dedicated player gap. As many other threads have lamented, the content schedule and development structure of this game strongly disfavors dedicated players: SE is much more eager to capture a large casual subscription base, it is puzzling why they have yet to indicate a willingness to move to this "rollover"-type system. Players who miss weekly resets are often the type who have real-life commitments: other things to do that supply them a steady stream of income or social fulfillment that readily distract them from the game's lackluster ilvl80+ endgame offerings (i.e. Coil and EM Primals).

I've attached a quote from my previous post that described a system similar to the original post's (which was also unanswered from the devs).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by YuriRamona

A weekly reset on the tomestone cap only partially addresses this. More casual players (or dedicated players under extenuating circumstances) will arrive at the endgame and will forever be behind players who reached endgame earlier. While the progress of dedicated players is limited, the stratification/gap between dedicated players and casual players will always be present.

Players should each have a capped allotment of mythology tomestomes assigned to them that grows every week by 300/450 starting from the first week of release.

With this system, a player that reaches level 50 for the first time tomorrow has the chance to gather the thousands of mythology tomestones that their friends or peers have already obtained over the course of the last few months.

Dedicated players aren't really harmed by this system; they were still the first to enjoy the benefits of accessing higher level content such as the Binding Coil and obtain gear earlier. And, if anything, having casual players be able to reach dedicated players' level of achievement means there are more opportunities to make friends and meet new players.

This is dangerous to fostering a healthy endgame community.

As it stands, it is quite difficult to ask dedicated players who have nearly completed a set of item level 90 equipment for a job to party up with an equally eager player who, due to the weekly cap, can only obtain, at best, one item level 90 weapon when they've reached level 50. By keeping dedicated players permanently ahead and casual players behind, there is little opportunity of mixing the two groups and generating new friendships. Even the most eager casual player must wait months to reach the level of achievement of a dedicated player - and by that point, they will once again be months ahead.

This system also disincentivizes and punishes casual players for playing through mythology tomestone-granting dungeons repeatedly. While dedicated players have dozens, if not hundreds, of completions through these dungeons and encounters along their course of obtaining mythology tomestones every week, casual players will, often, only be rewarded lesser tomestones of philosophy for completing this content. They are discouraged from reaching the same level of mastery and understanding as dedicated players. This translates to an ever-widening gap in skill and experience in endgame content.

An accumulating personal allotment is simply an extension of the ideals and tenets of the rested EXP system and the levequest allotment system. Players who have less time for the game should be encouraged and supported in their efforts to catch up, even at the highest level of endgame.

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This is just to state a misconception throughout this thread. Leves = exp (which) = Numerical Level

As people in other threads have stated, the reason you pay and play this game is to experience it. In a typical MMO, levels are part of the experience. Thus the reason for a leve allowance rollover. Players get levels, players experience the game.

No where in the history of MMO has the current endgame gear been deeply tied to the over all experience. And Myth Tomes = Gear (not levels). I any mmo, If i, as a player, want the best, I have to put in the leg work.

If, at this present time, a rollover system were put in place, and more people were squeezed into coil (I am theorizing that they would want to do coil because why have great gear if you arent being challenged) then more people would be put off by the community demands for coil runs: watching/or experiencing the fights, have a set day to coordinate with 7 other players, having the time to run all the turns (if you are that good), etc. ESPECIALLY if RL seems to obstruct you from playing as much as the OP is saying it does.

Some players if your static might Mountain Buster you if you say you have to take a week off from the game, thus slowing their progress down. There is no rollover in Coil.

What I am saying is ultimately, if you are a casual player (which I am), you cannot help but see that you are chasing the carrot on the stick (myth gear) for the sake of a very non-time sensitive objective (running content).

If you are not a casual player, then you should not be that far behind other Coil Runners. That is, unless you just started playing the game last week. I have run T2 in coil and I had Relic +1, AF1 body, and everything else Darklight, oh and the AK headpiece. My dps was fine, my life was decent, and we won. I was pressured by anyone in my group to be all myth geared out. And my FC is of the same mindset.

Theoretically you will always be behind. But I ask you, after you "catch up" what will you then do? Coil with the hardcores? Because remember their pace outstrips yours, so heaven forbid you have to pulled away for another week or two.

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Originally Posted by Grailer

I don't see why people who don't sub should get given tomes to catch up . However They are increasing tomes to 450 soon .

On the other hand I feel that its unfair that casual players who spent 2 months lvling to 50 because they were crafting and exploring game lose 300 tomes a week basically until they get to 50 .

The cap should increase by the amount left over each week

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I laughed. I was late to get to 50, about 1 month late, then I proceeded to do 1 month break. I missed 2 months of 300 tome caps. Look at my current gear though, it is fully possible to catch up, you just gotta rush full darklight, and get myth capped. I am still "behind", as I missed out on 2 months of myth caps, and a lot of coil runs, but still I am fully able to clear coil ^^

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Xairos

If, at this present time, a rollover system were put in place, and more people were squeezed into coil (I am theorizing that they would want to do coil because why have great gear if you arent being challenged) then more people would be put off by the community demands for coil runs: watching/or experiencing the fights, have a set day to coordinate with 7 other players, having the time to run all the turns (if you are that good), etc. ESPECIALLY if RL seems to obstruct you from playing as much as the OP is saying it does.

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This is a valid concern. If a rollover were implemented, there will most certainly be groups that will immediately restrict invites only to players in full i90.

However, I don't think it's probable that this will further marginalize casual players.

First of all, there are currently Coil groups that readily accept players in DL + Relic, even though this is below the recommended set-up. I think it's probable that even under a rollover system, there will be Coil groups that remain catered to players that are underequipped, especially if the implementation of this system encourages casual players to come out of the woodwork and become active again.

Secondly, we have to consider the situation without a rollover system. Coil groups will continue to pull further and further ahead of casual players, not only due to the currently weekly reset system, but item level 90 drops in Coil. Even if we don't think the rollover system is adequate or positive, we can't be satisfied with the current system.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by YuriRamona

This is a valid concern. If a rollover were implemented, there will most certainly be groups that will immediately restrict invites only to players in full i90.

However, I don't think it's probable that this will further marginalize casual players.

First of all, there are currently Coil groups that readily accept players in DL + Relic, even though this is below the recommended set-up. I think it's probable that even under a rollover system, there will be Coil groups that remain catered to players that are underequipped, especially if the implementation of this system encourages casual players to come out of the woodwork and become active again.

Secondly, we have to consider the situation without a rollover system. Coil groups will continue to pull further and further ahead of casual players, not only due to the currently weekly reset system, but item level 90 drops in Coil. Even if we don't think the rollover system is adequate or positive, we can't be satisfied with the current system.

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Good point, I would add that looking at the 2.1 video I think more is being added for a casual player to catch up than is being added for higher tiers of Coil. I theorize that the coil runners will cap off on their gear for a specific job, and then turn to either helping out fellow FCers, or random eager casuals, or their other jobs (which by looking at some of the other threads in this forurm, is a whole different can of worms). But this theory is trickle-down and highly optimistic :D

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Originally Posted by Shizzaren

I laughed. I was late to get to 50, about 1 month late, then I proceeded to do 1 month break. I missed 2 months of 300 tome caps. Look at my current gear though, it is fully possible to catch up, you just gotta rush full darklight, and get myth capped. I am still "behind", as I missed out on 2 months of myth caps, and a lot of coil runs, but still I am fully able to clear coil ^^

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The debate here is not whether you are able to or not. Of course, we CAN clear Coil with the bare minimum. You CAN clear Turn 1 and 2 practically naked. You CAN clear Turn 4 and 5 with an average item level below 80. This does not mean this is at all an ideal situation, or something that SE should be imposing on its players.

You, and other players like us, are permanently behind. Yes, you will still receive invites, and can still form your own groups. However, there will be groups that (justifiably) ask players to have higher item level equipment. As I mentioned in my previous post, this is immensely hurtful to the community, because the system incentivizes players to stratify themselves according to how many weekly resets they obtained.

We could counter this and say that these demanding groups should ease up on their restrictions, and it's their fault for drawing lines between dedicated and casual players.

To this, I would say that it's not the players' responsibility to lower their expectations (and rates of success, because however much we want to believe that equipment makes hardly a difference, it's still a tangible difference). It is absolutely SE's responsibility to prevent situations like this by implementing solutions such as a rollover system.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by YuriRamona

The debate here is not whether you are able to or not. Of course, we CAN clear Coil with the bare minimum. You CAN clear Turn 1 and 2 practically naked. You CAN clear Turn 4 and 5 with an average item level below 80. This does not mean this is at all an ideal situation, or something that SE should be imposing on its players.

You, and other players like us, are permanently behind. Yes, you will still receive invites, and can still form your own groups. However, there will be groups that (justifiably) ask players to have higher item level equipment. As I mentioned in my previous post, this is immensely hurtful to the community, because the system incentivizes players to stratify themselves according to how many weekly resets they obtained.

We could counter this and say that these demanding groups should ease up on their restrictions, and it's their fault for drawing lines between dedicated and casual players.

To this, I would say that it's not the players' responsibility to lower their expectations (and rates of success, because however much we want to believe that equipment makes hardly a difference, it's still a tangible difference). It is absolutely SE's responsibility to prevent situations like this by implementing solutions such as a rollover system.

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But Yuri, it is the very same community that imposes the tight requirements that make players feel like gear comes first and experience and willingness second. SE has given us a system that is rather forgiving since we all can see that you CAN clear coil at less than optimum. I am grateful for that. This could be like the old days where DPS checks were stringent and everyone needed the best of the best. In 14 we can safely say that Endgame content can be cleared at less than optimum gear on a fraction of the group? Thats pretty swell.

It's not the Developers duty to make a game where "reaching the same level of mastery and understanding as dedicated players" is obtainable by a person who doesn't want to put forth the dedication to reach said mastery and understanding. That isnt fair to the overachievers. We can't pull them down and call it fair. As long as there are persistent worlds in games, there will be overachievers and people who play just to play.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Xairos

It's not the Developers duty to make a game where "reaching the same level of mastery and understanding as dedicated players" is obtainable by a person who wants to neither put forth the dedication to reach said mastery and understanding. That isnt fair to the overachievers.

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I find this argument incredibly problematic, if not outright wrong. As many of the previous posters in this thread have mentioned, life, work, and social commitments are what blocks players from reaching the same level of achievement as "overachievers" (I prefer "dedicated" to use Yoshi-P's term).

It is neither good common sense or business sense to disincentivize players from meeting their real-life needs before playing the game.

Of course, I do think that players who don't fall under this category (real-life commitments), are the slackers that will unsubscribe or become inactive for long periods of time and will abuse the rollover system.

In addition, in my assessment, the cost of catering to the slackers is vastly outweighed by the gratitude of casual players with real-life commitments. As I hinted at before, if you're the kind of person who has a life that is filled enough to eat up your leisure time, it's likely that they have an exponentially greater desire for the kind of relief/break/escape that FFXIV offers.

If you're the kind of player that is prone to becoming a slacker by unsubscribing or becoming inactive while the myth tome allocation accumulates, then they probably aren't the type of player who is really in it for the long term (both financially undesirable and socially undesirable because they don't contribute meaningfully to the in-game community). They also are clearly not interested in non-myth tome content, which is 95% of the game (the persistent world you mentioned). Is there really a big loss if these players fall of the radar? I don't think so.

To address your final point, about the fairness to dedicated players: of course, a rollover system is unfair, there is no way I can disagree. However, as I mentioned in a previous self-quote, this injustice is very heavily countered by a substantial boost to the overall health and vitality of the game: more casual subscribers means a stronger, more diverse community that fills lower level areas and feeds the economy. More casual subscribers means a bigger bank for SE to hire the talent they need to actually develop content that is satisfactory to dedicated players.

In any case, we know that a lift of these restrictions is coming sooner or later. Why not do it now, before we lose the interest of such a large portion of the player base?

Let me get this straight, there are ppl arguing that;

player A and player B subscribe for 1 month

player A logs in every week and collects myths for 3 weeks and gets 900 myths
player B logs in at week 3 and collects 900 myths

argument 1: player A spends more time than player B
it takes the same amount of time and effort to collect myths, just because you delay it doesn't mean you spend less time.
it is mathematically the same
okay let's say we agree that the time spent is equal and this argument is void

argument 2: implementing myth roll over will make players less likely to log in?
because that doesn't happen already on this Monday game where everyone logs in completes coil 1-4 and cap myth in a single day not taking more than 6 hours.
oh what's that? even though that does happen players are still logging in and doing other things other than myth farming? no you don't say!

argument 3: cap is there to separate the hardcore/casual
actually cap is there to extend playing content, if it was uncapped most players would be full relic everything sleep walking through coil


i think a lot of ppl are opposed to myth roll over because they think players are going to wait a month, come back and grind the month of myths they have stored. let me ask you, would you do it? go afk for a month or two, come back and grind 12+ hours myths? me, i'd rather do it slowly so i don't drive myself insane. and it wouldn't bother me if others did grind 2 months worth of myths, have a blast it doesn't affect me.

ultimate question, why does it bother you if someone did pay for 3 months go afk come back and grind 3 months worth of myths? because you spent more time than they did getting those myths? That's not correct, because you put in more effort? nope, not that either. Because they didn't play for 3 months and now they're as geared as you? but the put in the same amount time and effort to get those myths as you did! They're not logging in everyday being part of the community? They pay for the service, they use it as they see fit!

you don't go around telling ppl how to spend their time and money, why would you do otherwise in this game?

There is one argument i agree with however;
the player A who subscribes first has more potential myths, even if the player B who subscribes second is willing to put more time into the game, he can never catch up to player A. But that's a assuming player A always collects his potential myths.

in ending, i don't see this game breaking or giving an unfair advantage to any player - but that' just my opinion

You are pretty much on the money.

My view is that the game already levels the playing field between dedicated players and casuals as far as numerical level is concerned (via leves and the sped up nature of story mode quest). Never in any mmo is it stated that just because you pay the same as everyone else, that you are entitled to achieve the same gear as everyone on level playing field. It has been added that under a rollover you would have to put forth the same amount of time as a dedicated player, and that isnt what im arguing against, but it still moves the goalpost of how a dedicated player separates themselves from the rest.

Now before you say that there shouldnt be a separation in the player base and that it makes for a bad community, I will propose other gaming genres where players make a name for themselves and or make a living being "better" than everyone else. Starcraft, League of Legends, Pokemon, WoW, Heathstone, DotA, Minecraft, etc. There are jerks in those communities, but many players look to the "pros" for advice and tips. I mean look at twitch, an entire website (mostly) dedicated to people watching people who dedicate time and effort to being better than the average player base. In 14 there is very little separating me from other level 50s. Other than weekdays dedicated to running AK, WP, an Prate. I imagine that outside of this forum most people who get lvl 50 would seek to get Philo gear before even considering Myth gear, so why suddenly throw myth gear at em in the form of a huge Tome Cap the second the ding 50? That's all I am proposing.

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Originally Posted by ninesunz

There is one argument i agree with however;
the player A who subscribes first has more potential myths, even if the player B who subscribes second is willing to put more time into the game, he can never catch up to player A. But that's a assuming player A always collects his potential myths.

in ending, i don't see this game breaking or giving an unfair advantage to any player - but that' just my opinion

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I don't think you're giving the benefits of the myth rollover enough credit and seeing the negatives of the current system.

Anyone with a real life will see this as unfair. Like I've said, there are people who, through no fault of their own, must take time away from the game. Even dedicated players have duties outside of the game. It's bad enough that lockouts exist that will bar them from keeping up with their FC and friends on Coil, CT, and EM Primals. If they had the time, they would play the game. With the rollover, you give them a chance to catch up on one of the four endgame content areas.

As it stands, dedicated players will be 4 times ahead of non-dedicated players who miss out on weekly resets (Myth, Coil, CT, and EM Primals).

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Originally Posted by Xairos

You are pretty much on the money.

My view is that the game already levels the playing field between dedicated players and casuals as far as numerical level is concerned (via leves and the sped up nature of story mode quest). Never in any mmo is it stated that just because you pay the same as everyone else, that you are entitled to achieve the same gear as everyone on level playing field. It has been added that under a rollover you would have to put forth the same amount of time as a dedicated player, and that isnt what im arguing against, but it still moves the goalpost of how a dedicated player separates themselves from the rest.

Now before you say that there shouldnt be a separation in the player base and that it makes for a bad community, I will propose other gaming genres where players make a name for themselves and or make a living being "better" than everyone else. Starcraft, League of Legends, Pokemon, WoW, Heathstone, DotA, Minecraft, etc. There are jerks in those communities, but many players look to the "pros" for advice and tips. I mean look at twitch, an entire website (mostly) dedicated to people watching people who dedicate time and effort to being better than the average player base. In 14 there is very little separating me from other level 50s. Other than weekdays dedicated to running AK, WP, an Prate. I imagine that outside of this forum most people who get lvl 50 would seek to get Philo gear before even considering Myth gear, so why suddenly throw myth gear at em in the form of a huge Tome Cap the second the ding 50? That's all I am proposing.

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Of course there needs to be a way to distinguish the top-tier dedicated players from the rest of the general population. As I've mentioned, Coil, CT (ilvl80, but still higher than anything below it), the upcoming EM Primal weekly lockout, and Mythology are all going to be weekly resets. Most people are okay with Coil and EM Primal lockout, and less so with CT (mostly since it's a lower content level).

The problem with the weekly reset system of mythology tomes is that, as a token system, it's meant to reward you for slamming your head against the wall spamming ilvl50-55 content (AK, WP, Garuda). I'm not really sure if there's a significant chunk of the dedicated player population who will say that their achievement of meeting the weekly myth cap consistently is proof of their skill or talent, as Coil progression is a far better indicator of endgame achievement.

If it's not actually an effective way to distinguish casual/dedicated boundary, then we should look at what else it functions to do. It encourages players to stay subscribed and log on consistently every week. And this goes back to my original argument that this is a very tall order for a substantial portion of the player population.

(If we're really concerned that we will lose subscriptions, we can always limit the allocation based on the number of weeks a player has been subscribed.)

I think it's admirable for us to want to generate a competitive tier within FFXIV that is worthy of jumping on to Twitch and Youtube, etc. Again, my point is: would you really watch a stream of someone grinding 300 tomes a week, or would you rather watch someone challenge the lower and upper turns of Coil? My suspicion is that Coil completely dwarves any potential that mythology tome grinding has at fostering a viewing and video-making community. Therefore, we can adjust the tome system freely without the dedicated player and streaming community going up in arms about the flood of casuals into their niche content. Having a flood of players decked out in mythology gear won't invalidate dedicated players who have Coil down, because it's an encounter that is 90% dependent on skill and experience, which they will still have the pioneering award on.

To your final point, I think it is much, much more discouraging to see a 300 mythology tome limit at the ding to 50 than it is to see a 4000 tome limit (or whatever it is). While the big number is intimidating, once they hit it and look above through the glass ceiling, they will be much more angry at the limitation of the weekly reset than, potentially, the daunting big number. If anything, it will spur players to reach that number. We can look at some of the ridiculous achievements in the game and the droves of players shooting for those to know that big numbers is hardly a discouragement.

Yuri I will say I have enjoyed discussing this with you. Truly, non-sarcasm. :D

Anecdotal-ly, when I dinged 50, I focused primarily on Philo because of that being what I had in excess. After trying for weeks to beat Ifrit and Garuda in order to get a weapon in order to do AK in order to beat Titan in order to get my Relic, I by and large IGNORED myth. Sure I looked at the gear, but that was more of a puppy in the window thing. My main goal was Philo gear. I believe that this was intended.

Story Line Gear > 50 > Philo Gear > HM Ifrit and Garuda AK Gear > Relic > Myth (oops the > is meant to show progress)

I believe for an average player getting to 50, this is how they will perceive the game to be played. I wouldn't want to try to persuade them to shift toe myth just to catch up to content they very well might not care about. Coil isn't as much of a blip on the average player (not forum reader)'s mind. I think they would naturally focus on the incremental buffs from gear from WP/AK/Philo/Relic Weapon. The large number wont really scare them off, you are right about that.

But I concede that I have no data other than my own anecdote.

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Originally Posted by Xairos

Yuri I will say I have enjoyed discussing this with you. Truly, non-sarcasm. :D

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I'm glad we're having a civil discussion. A lot of posters on here don't seem to get that we all love the game and want to make it better. So everyone is at each others' throats thinking that their opinion will lead to the downfall of the game, when the truth is that they really think their solution will do the opposite.

Why is no one in the GW2 community crying because their dailies don't roll over? They all seem to be pretty ok with the fact that if you dont log in that day and complete your tasks, you miss your credit for that day. and that's WAY more strict and time consuming than a weekly 2 hour dungeon spam.

Even WoW with its dailies.. they are just that, daily, thats more strict than this system and all you really get is some gold and some xp. Why is it that you get far more value with a much bigger span of time and people are butthurt? Maybe we should be like the other games and let you gain 45 myths a day max, no rollovers, no crying, just do it and collect your free best gear in the game.

I work 45 hour weeks, plus graduate classes, plus graduate assignments, research papers and projects, plus a social life and i still manage to complete my 300 myths and run coil. granted i dont have much time to do much else, but im not here crying that i need special treatment.

you can earn the best gear in the game by doing 10 dungeons a week. why is this too much to ask for, and why does this specific community cry foul at this sickeningly lenient system.

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Originally Posted by Hanabira

Why is no one in the GW2 community crying because their dailies don't roll over? They all seem to be pretty ok with the fact that if you dont log in that day and complete your tasks, you miss your credit for that day. and that's WAY more strict and time consuming than a weekly 2 hour dungeon spam.

I work 45 hour weeks, plus graduate classes, plus graduate assignments, research papers and projects, plus a social life and i still manage to complete my 300 myths and run coil. granted i dont have much time to do much else, but im not here crying that i need special treatment.

you can earn the best gear in the game by doing 10 dungeons a week. why is this too much to ask for, and why does this specific community cry foul at this sickeningly lenient system.

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You obviously have a "regular job" with "regular working hours", and a "regular living situation". Congratulations! you belong to the majority.

Some of us aren't that lucky (or unlucky, matter of P.O.V.). OP aparently works in the military. Which means you sometimes go away on missions for days/weeks/months. Depending on what you do in the military, you don't have normal working hours too. Or normal living arrangements.
The military is just one example, many civilian jobs have some or all of these constraints.
It's not just the job. Some people have familial/personal commitments/constraints that don't allow them to keep a "regular" gaming schedule too.

All this to say that just because someone is unable to log regularly enough too reach the weekly cap, doesn't mean they are not "making any efforts" or whatever crap are often cited in these forum to "seperate the elite" or whatever.

Yes, for some people, it is too much to ask for. Not by any lack of good will from their part. Welcome to the world of casuals, some of which actually are invested in the game, but also happen to have a RL life, too.


PS: I play GW2 too, and the dailies are not making such a big difference that you can't afford to miss one day every so often. And even though missing an entire month does put you behind, you can miss some days/weeks and still manage to fill you "monthlies" too, and not loose a lot.
In addition, in GW2 gear stats don't make much of a difference, GW2 is not gear-based, contrary to FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by Billie21

You obviously have a "regular job" with "regular working hours", and a "regular living situation". Congratulations! you belong to the majority.

Some of us aren't that lucky (or unlucky, matter of P.O.V.). OP aparently works in the military. Which means you sometimes go away on missions for days/weeks/months. Depending on what you do in the military, you don't have normal working hours too.

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i doubt the majority is spending an extra 30 hours a week outside of work doing school stuff. And because the value of what you obtain from myths is greater than what you obtain from gw2 dailies, you should expect stricter stipulations in return. People need to stop using the military like they are some special case. i dont care if you are an astronaut on a russian space station, if you aren't doing your points in the given timeline, tough. the world doesnt revolve around you, even if you are revolving around the world. No one can give any other examples of this request being acceptable, other than leves, which is a joke in itself.

And before anyone throws out the "well this is a game, not real life" argument thats just bound to show its face, name me even another game where this is happening with a system that gives you rewards anywhere close in value to af/relic+1. introducing an easily abused system for the sake of a small population of players getting shipped off to active duty, and an even SMALLER population of that group being butthurt about their myths is just ridiculous. OP should be thinking more about how he made it back in one piece and less about the myths he didnt get.

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Originally Posted by Hanabira

i doubt the majority is spending an extra 30 hours a week outside of work doing school stuff. And because the value of what you obtain from myths is greater than what you obtain from gw2 dailies, you should expect stricter stipulations in return. People need to stop using the military like they are some special case. i dont care if you are an astronaut on a russian space station, if you aren't doing your points in the given timeline, tough. the world doesnt revolve around you, even if you are revolving around the world. No one can give any other examples of this request being acceptable, other than leves, which is a joke in itself.

And before anyone throws out the "well this is a game, not real life" argument thats just bound to show its face, name me even another game where this is happening with a system that gives you rewards anywhere close in value to af/relic+1. introducing an easily abused system for the sake of a small population of players getting shipped off to active duty, and an even SMALLER population of that group being butthurt about their myths is just ridiculous. OP should be thinking more about how he made it back in one piece and less about the myths he didnt get.

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Well, that's the reason why I added, right after you ended my quote, that it wasn't just for people in the millitary.
My point is: a casual is not necessarily just someone who doesn't spend time in the game, but can ALSO be someone who spends time in the game, but has RL that doesn't let them play on a regular schedule.

And no, I can't give other examples in other games, because I've never experienced lockout-based games before, except for GW2's dailies and monthlies' if that even counts.


Can you tell us again how what OP suggest can be abused?

I wouldnt mind something like this implemented,but it should be abit less than what a person actually playing would get,maybe 100myth a week?