Turn 2 "easy mode", disables every mechanic in the fight

If your healers are skilled enough, It is possible to 1 tank, 2 healers, and 5 DPS. A white mage and and Scholar combo is doable as well.

Side note: The visual effects for that attack are awesome.

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Originally Posted by Ladon

Side note: The visual effects for that attack are awesome.

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If you don't have epilepsy.

its pretty bad then apparently.

I do not believe this method should be consider as a exploit and should not be consider as "easy mode". This method require the same amount of team works between healers / dps / and tank for silences / healing / from beginning nodes to ADS. The so call "normal" method is more friendly to the range parties making it harder for the melee parties to get pass turn 2. With this method and the "normal" rot method, it allow parties of all type to clear turn 2. If SE consider this as a exploit then they should remake turn 2 to allow all type of party make up to clear turn 2 instead of you need x ranges / 2 brds / 2 tanks / 1 melee (monk for silence).

One thing i think people are not realizing is you can already disable 4/5 mechanics and get rage mode without waiting for the clicks. Just kill 4 of the mini bosses, which removes everything but the fire beams, and the boss will have haste and go nuts pretty much the same as if you wait for rage mode.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

One thing i think people are not realizing is you can already disable 4/5 mechanics and get rage mode without waiting for the clicks. Just kill 4 of the mini bosses, which removes everything but the fire beams, and the boss will have haste and go nuts pretty much the same as if you wait for rage mode.

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But then it will have all sorts of damage reducing buffs.

Thats alot slower then just passing rot.

3 healers make dps so slow.

ITT: QQ Galore, Pl0x don't fix this or Imma quit FFXIV 4ever.

The game is full of people finding ways to disable/avoid the mechanics of most fights. Why is it suddenly not okay anymore in Coil?

If SE really wanted to prevent people from getting around fight mechanics, they'd cap iLvs for various content (synced down to i60 in AK, for example) and only allow people to enter content with the default party makeup (you can only enter Titan with 2 tanks, 2 healers, and 4 dps for Titan, for example).

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Originally Posted by coffeepotz

If your healers are skilled enough, It is possible to 1 tank, 2 healers, and 5 DPS. A white mage and and Scholar combo is doable as well.

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If you are geared enough, thats what you wanted to write

Didn't those aoe damage used to do a lot more?

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Originally Posted by KizuBriko

Thats alot slower then just passing rot.

3 healers make dps so slow.

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you get rid of a tank, not a dps.

so 1 tank 3 healers 4 dps.

Devs only have themselves to blame if this is counted as an exploit (and most likely is). They should know by now that if you want to wipe a raid, you got to be thorough like have the boss AE everyone for 5 million damage. Don't cry about players outsmarting you when you always had the nuclear bomb option and should've used it on anything that's intended to be an instant wipe mechanism.

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Originally Posted by Astarica

Devs only have themselves to blame if this is counted as an exploit (and most likely is)...

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Please, explain to us how a boss's enrage ability being weak is an exploit in any way shape or form. I do not believe you understand the definition of the word when used in the context of gaming.

I agree it's not an exploit, and I agree SE should make the enrage more punishing. Escalating damage would be ideal. Slow groups can still get a little past the enrage if needed.

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Originally Posted by Sinth

Please, explain to us how a boss's enrage ability being weak is an exploit in any way shape or form. I do not believe you understand the definition of the word when used in the context of gaming.

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Because exploit is generally defined as 'doing something not intended by devs', and obviously an enrage is intended to kill you. For example, if you had an encounter where the boss just self destructs and dies immediately, you'd still be considering exploiting for repeatly doing the said encounter because it's obviously not intended to be this easy. In theory you're supposed to stop doing the said encounter and report it. Of course if devs have any sense they'd know not to blame players when they goofed, but if you want to argue semantics, exploiting is simply going against what the devs intended.

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Originally Posted by Astarica

Because exploit is generally defined as 'doing something not intended by devs', and obviously an enrage is intended to kill you. For example, if you had an encounter where the boss just self destructs and dies immediately, you'd still be considering exploiting for repeatly doing the said encounter because it's obviously not intended to be this easy. In theory you're supposed to stop doing the said encounter and report it. Of course if devs have any sense they'd know not to blame players when they goofed, but if you want to argue semantics, exploiting is simply going against what the devs intended.

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Exploiting is cheating like no being able to get hit by a move. or phasing through walls to get passed certain areas. Exploiting is NOT finding different strategies to beat bosses.

Wrong. An exploit in gaming is an action taken by the player to circumvent mechanics or to achieve a goal which is otherwise impossible.

Examples of an exploits: Freezing Twintania, Teleporting anywhere you like instantly by telling the server false coordinates, Double-casting with BLM via a certain rotation bug, Duping items.

What you are referring to as an exploit is either:
1. Working as intended
2. Unbalanced

There is no prerequisite bug needed or out of the ordinary behavior required by the player to achieve the end result. If the fight is easier than intended, then it is unbalanced. If, for instance, you discovered that drinking a potion of wind resistance completely nullified the damage of the enrage, then capitalizing on this action would be considered an exploit.

It is definitely a bug and clearly you guys noticed it before this morning. It is not accidently founded but intented to use it. You may get banned very soon.

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Originally Posted by Astarica

Because exploit is generally defined as 'doing something not intended by devs', and obviously an enrage is intended to kill you. For example, if you had an encounter where the boss just self destructs and dies immediately, you'd still be considering exploiting for repeatly doing the said encounter because it's obviously not intended to be this easy. In theory you're supposed to stop doing the said encounter and report it. Of course if devs have any sense they'd know not to blame players when they goofed, but if you want to argue semantics, exploiting is simply going against what the devs intended.

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So do you consider tanking Caduceus with more than 3 stacks also an exploit?

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Originally Posted by KoujiGeki

Exploiting is cheating like no being able to get hit by a move. or phasing through walls to get passed certain areas. Exploiting is NOT finding different strategies to beat bosses.

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Watch the video clearly before you say different strag. To me it is a bug,they use it and disclose to public will get banned 100%.

Here is my 2 cents on the matter.

Is this an exploit? No
Is it in poor taste to do it this way? I believe yes, seems like a cop out to me but that is just my personal opinion.
Should do the Devs do something about it? I think they should, the entire premise of the fight is you have 12minutes to remove as many mechanics as you can and then defeat the last boss, by circumventing that i feel like you are just cheesing the point of that turn.

You know, I'm far more surprised people are actually defending this, exploit or not seems really damn boring to do instead of the std dance party. I hope they fix this just to see all the tears of the bads that can't or don't feel like dancing. Screw an even easier end game, it's boring enough without making this a bandwagon tactic. :)

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Originally Posted by neoreturn

Watch the video clearly before you say different strag. To me it is a bug,they use it and disclose to public will get banned 100%.

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To you its a bug? LOL
Please tell me more about how you designed ADS, all of the mechanics and possible legitimate strategies to defeat it.

If I would ever have to pug 1 single member for a t2 team I would go for this strategy everyday in the week. The same way as I normally prefer to have 2 bards in t1 for feeding the snake. Less room for messup. Which is (sadly) needed for every pug since forever and will be needed for every pug forever (even after nerfs I assume)... I do not know how many times I have faild t2 because brd's could not silence or people not passing rot properly. This does not prevent brds from screwing up though, but it prevents Rot failure which is so common so it is just sad.

How is this a bug? I clearly see my health drop as intended when he attacks and I clearly see my health recovered as intended when I get heals. I see nothing about this acting in a buggy way at all. That is kinda like saying that winning t4 when you are in it's "enrage" mode is a bug because it is not an instant kill screen.

If SE intended this to be an instant kill screen it would deal 13459 damage or something ridiculous to make sure we all died instantly

For those asking what I think about the exploit, that's not the important part. It's what devs think because they make the rules in a MMORPG. In a MMORPG players don't really have much rights. Aside from actually quitting the game our opinions are nowhere on an equal footing with the dev. If killing Little Ladybugs yielded Allagan gear 2% of the time due to a bug in loot table, you can be considered 'exploiting' for farming those. If you're the guy telling everyone else to do this expect to be have even harsher consequences. I've seen players punished for exploiting an encounter that was bugged such that you win by just starting the encounter and hide somewhere while your ally NPCs kill the boss. So if starting an encounter can be called an exploit then of course this is an exploit too. If you look at MMORPG philosophy pretty much anything players can do that is advantageous and not intended by devs is an 'exploit', that way devs don't have to explain themselves when they fix it.

Now if you're actually interested in my personal opinion, I think it's the dev's problem that they didn't make enrage hard enough. If you're not supposed to live past 3 stack of Caduceus just make 4th stack grant 100X movement speed and 100X damage. If you're supposed to die when the timer hits 0 just have the boss AE for milions of damage, or better yet just kick you out of the zone. But my opinion really has no bearing on what a dev would think. MMORPG tends to be very draconian. If you read the EULA you'll realize you don't own anything and nothing you have has value, and you can be banned for a good, bad, or no reason. Likewise anything you can possibly do that the devs don't like is simply defined as an exploit if it eventually gets fixed.

Funny, enrages are supposed to be the death of your group, I have to say good job to whoever found this!

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Originally Posted by saber_alter

you get rid of a tank, not a dps.

so 1 tank 3 healers 4 dps.

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Can you really sacrifice a tank though? Due to the tank switching mechanics (increased damage debuff) of the mini bosses, you still need that second tank to take them down. Unless you get a tank which has a geared dps sub job.

You don't need a second tank, there's a single tank method for doing T2

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Originally Posted by SarcasmMisser

You don't need a second tank, there's a single tank method for doing T2

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Never heard of it but I'd like to learn about it if you care to share. :3

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Originally Posted by SulwynCaliope

Never heard of it but I'd like to learn about it if you care to share. :3

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Have WHM and SCH cycle stoneskin and Adloquium on the tank. Done right, the tank wont get any stacks

lol at all people calling it an exploit while doing SR WP.
Its less an exploit than monster loosing agro when boss room close

also to people saying "one week of practice" while it's true with their playtime, the number of try they did in that one week might be bigger than what casual do in several weeks, and that they not always do with the exact same group

What about when your group stacks to just auto-pass Rot without even having to think about it? Is this also considered an exploit just because it's not using the player-created-strategy of pass the rot in a square/w rotation from 1 - 5? Who is to say what strategy SE intended?

It's a legit strategy + seems no different than mindlessly zerging through Garuda, or Titan, or WP SR or AK sac runs. Like all those, this is a strat that can only be adopted if you possess a certain skill and/or gear.

To those that say "you are gimping yourself for future turns," know that in a few months time, we will all - even you - be facerolling Twintania using some as-of-yet undiscovered zerg strat. I also take it the people saying this make sure they kill every mob inside WP and under no circumstances do they even dream of locking mobs out of the boss fights. Right?!

Get off your high horses. Must we create a thread every time a faceroll strat is developed for outdated content?

It's a disgusting strat for an already very easy fight. SE will probably fix it and label it as a fight being done in a manner that was unintended, enjoy it while you can.

Also, when did coil become outdated? lol.

In my opinion its not an exploit and a good strategy. I think SE will end up fixing the rage mode because its not how they want the fight to work but I almost wish they wouldn't because it allows people to bring two melee DPS instead of the one for LB. Finding a PUG coil group as a melee can sometimes suck. If anything though its SE's fault for making an easy rage mode, not anyones for doing the easiest method.

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Originally Posted by AjoraOak

It's a disgusting strat for an already very easy fight. SE will probably fix it and label it as a fight being done in a manner that was unintended, enjoy it while you can.

Also, when did coil become outdated? lol.

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Well I'm referring to turns 1 and 2 really, seen as how most people here talk about how easy it is and everyone is pretty much working on turns 4 and 5. It isn't outdated persay, but turn 2 has definitely matured, proven in the fact that it can now be facerolled with the appropriate gear.

If it isn't outdated now anyway, it most definitely will be in a month's time and this will be a complete non issue. It is the same story with every other speed run/skip mechanics strat.

inb4 this strat is slower than passing rot -- the point is, it can still only be achieved by groups that are over-geared, seen as it requires high numbers for healing and dps. In this sense it is no different to a speed run, and skipping mobs. Locking mobs out of a boss fight is a bigger exploit than this BY FAR, and yet we ALL do it.

Apologies for the double post;

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Originally Posted by Battlewrench

I think SE will end up fixing the rage mode because its not how they want the fight to work

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Its enrage ability deals around 2500 damage to me, a BLM, who has 3700 HP. SE is fully aware of 1. the HP of the players and 2. the damage this ability does. Why are people assuming that this ability is supposed to oneshot us all? SE know how to do that. They do it in all the primal fights.

It doesn't oneshot us. It is survivable. Which means we can recover from it and continue fighting and defeat ADS assuming we are geared and skilled enough.

Not all enrages are designed to wipe a party. http://wowpedia.org/Enrage_(mechanic) This could be considered a Hard Frenzy, as opposed to Enrage, which simply applies extra stress to healing in an attempt to end the fight for groups that cannot handle it.

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Originally Posted by Gurpsmeister

very much this. If you're SO bad that you can't take it out legit than..I guess have fun? It's an easy fight to start with and this method is longer than the norm.

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Your use of the word "legit" made me giggle.

It's not an exploit its a poorly design mechanic... And for those who said they didn't intend on players using that then that's a sad excuse for you to think its a exploits... Hell in one of the letters Yoshida even said something about pld being the preferred tank over war because they didn't "intend" people to find a better way to go around the original design on how players are suppose to fight the bosses... So I guess that makes almost all of us guilty if we didn't use a WAR tank?