I'm really not into combat, dungeons, combat based FATE's, etc, so forgive me if I'm missing something here but...Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxthunder
Everything you're suggesting there seems to be applicable to enemies in dungeons as well and doesn't actually have anything to do with being open world or not open world. Any instanced enemy can have TP moves and a more random script (sorry but scripts are necessary, even modern "AI" rely entirely on scripts, it's just that they can be more randomised and less obvious). Instancing is the only way to play the content without the zergfest and without the pointless waiting around for a claim battle. You could make it appear uninstanced by putting it in the open world but making it player trigger based (item/quest/leve/etc) but that's still instanced.
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11-29-2013, 01:24 PMmbncd
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11-29-2013, 01:29 PMSwishytailFixed. /10charQuote:
Originally Posted by Uveck
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11-29-2013, 01:38 PMMaxthunder
[QUOTE=mbncd;1611049] snip
You are mising the point, say for example we are currently level 50 and we have mobs that pose a threat to all levels so a level 50 would be threaten by something above it level, say a level 60. Now we can either run (make sure leashes are off) or b we can stay and fight and see if we can solo it. Its the thrill of not know currently we know that every encounter in the open world isnt a threat will not kill us. We need mobs in the open world that CAN kill us that can pose a threat. Hiding in an instance its boring the dungeon is always the same no matter how many times you do it. The open world is less controlled and anything can and will happen. All low levels do is sprint away due to the short leashes on mobs. What ever happened to the thrill of the open world, why is the majority afraid of something like this? At least things would be interesting and not so boring.
Everything should NOT be in an instance, everything should not be soloable but a balance between somethings being soloable and others open world included requires a party. We currently have players that just solo, thats fine but we also need content that is not instanced that requires a party for those that wish to do it. Again high risk vs reward, not low risk vs (we) get same reward. The mind set that we currently have is everyone gets anything they want at little risk, give it to me know attitudes. There is nothing wrong with high risk, long term content that you are only rewarded after completing a series of task that take a long time to accomplish.
Once you explore the open world there is no reason to do it again, dungeons are so linear that they get old and boring. Ask for something more than being hand held thru every piece of content released, ask for content that will challenge every player, but at the same time make content for those that dont want the challenge. For example seeing as Yoshi said he will nerf older content, my suggest would be dont nerf the content till a new expansion is released. -
11-29-2013, 02:32 PMArtamie
I feel like the above post touches upon something fairly important: mystique. Not knowing everything about something adds a certain allure that I feel is extremely lacking in this game. Everything in XIV is slapped on the table so you know what to expect: scripted instanced dungeons, crafting/gathering logs listing all available items and recipes, very very hold-your-hand questing style, crafting rotation that practically guarantee HQ, large indicators for all FATE style activities, and more. While transparency is good, I feel that some cases being secretive can make things more interesting. Take the Titantic Sawfish for example. While fishermen know that it seems to only comes out on clear sunny days, that alone isn't enough to ensure catching it. It took forever to fish it up but it had me holding my breath every double mooch!
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11-29-2013, 03:32 PMNasuAegis
If we had open world pop NM's with triggers we farm, with worthwhile drops, there would be no camping for 12 hours, no worries everyone seems to have with claiming, and we could go do them with friends or FC members to either challenge it solo or low man it with any number of people... no more waiting for people to be on to go do a 4-8 man instances..Yeah i know i dont have to wait and i could use the derp finder, but most of you know how that goes 99% of the time.
FATE's are a way for people to zerg through levels, without properly learning their jobs.. you just run as fast as possible to the FATE and spam your one AOE move to try and maximize xp before the FATE ends.. Behemoth & odin FATE as open world end game is the biggest joke ever. It turned out to be what most people predicted it to be, a mindless zerg with no strategy.
hardmode primals, hardmode low level dungeons...another AK type dungeon we will be bored of in a week, then next patch, more recycled content hardmodes, with another coil turn.. -
11-29-2013, 03:47 PMBabydollExactly! I am hoping we get fraction leves back at least. In 1.0 it was kind of like force pop NM...except you activate it with a leve. Some of them were pretty tough too. It was so cool...they were in tiers and the very last tier of fraction leve NM would drop coliseum gear ^^ Devs!!! If you are reading this please give us open world content. sigh this instanced only stuff for end game is so boring :(Quote:
Originally Posted by NasuAegis
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11-29-2013, 03:48 PMReslinIf you enjoy korean grinders you'll love ESO. People I know in beta are talking about 16 hours to get to level 8-9 while already being out leveled by quests. Oh, and it is still very "quest" and "Dungeon oriented." despite that. I love the ES series. I own every single game even the more obscure spin offs but the game is a bust.Quote:
Originally Posted by Azurus
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11-29-2013, 04:29 PMVelhartOne thing I can agree on is while the concept of FATE's are really nice and makes the world feel alive, it does go without saying it does have flaws. For starters, fights like Odin and Behemoth while fun, are abysmal to fight due to the high amount of players going at it, forcing SE to limit how many characters can be in one area. I think these large scale FATE's need to be thought out better or leave Behemoth and Odin in forced spawn locations when given an item and you enter their instance. I also hope SE doesn't continue to use FATE as a means to host events like the recent Lightning event. So many people on these mobs it is hard to have fun with them and I couldn't even see Lightning most of the time. It completely sucks the fun out of the event. It would of been better if Lightning event was made into a Guildhest/Guildleve, where you spawn the fight and it is you and your group fighting whatever the event offers. It doesn't need to have 50 others finishing the fight in seconds. While I think 95% of the FATE's are fine, these large scale ones I don't believe were well thought out and either they need to go back to the drawing board on how to handle FATE higher NM's, or go with my idea and have them force spawned instances not through Duty Finder.Quote:
Originally Posted by NasuAegis
Actually, I think that is one thing a lot of people complain about is most content is accessed simply through Duty Finder. For most cases, the Duty Finder is great. When spamming dungeons all day, it is nice to be in town and get things done while waiting for it to go off. On the other hand, when it comes to specific or special fights, this is one concept I would welcome is if we use the concept of treasure hunting coming out to get an item that force spawns an instanced NM like (insert any famous FF monster here) and group engages it, when you beat it the item disappears. It is a nice concept, especially since the bulletin board is coming in 2.1. "Need help killing (insert any famous FF monster here)". This is an example of bringing concepts of open world without hindering the accessibility and concepts of instances at the same time. Hell why don't we bring back Faction NM Guildleves from 1.xx? This was actually a great idea. Allowed you and your party to engage in open world fighting and guaranteed no interference from the outside beyond your party because well, other people can't actually engage it. I do believe guildleves were a good idea on paper, 1.xx just executed it wrong by making it the main concept. Make it your form of playing on the outside with special and unique fights and it can be used to utilize special events like Lightning's.
Which is what a lot of people need to learn here is that this game has established systems and they are not going to change them because you have some weird memories of competitive open world HNM's being a good thing. Argue with me all you want, but it has it's own extreme flaws that people don't consider. People should be suggesting how to implement open world content without shattering the already established concepts of the game.
tl:dr: Make guildleves bigger than they are right now and find concepts that bring open world and instance game play together. -
11-29-2013, 07:28 PMLiadansWhisperThis is 100% accurate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reslin
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11-29-2013, 08:13 PMFelis
Golden Saucer is not planned like a amusement park, but more like a Las Vegas style dungeon
True story -
11-30-2013, 03:22 AMGilthasThis is such an empty argument. The only thing there in the post that can't be applied to instanced content is being able to run away, which is kind of a lame argument to begin with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxthunder
The open world isn't less controlled because mobs in the open-world will still pop and behave in a predictable fashion just like they do inside dungeons. This "the open-world is less controlled" argument is just a meaningless one-liner you toss out to make it seem like fighting mobs in the open world is somehow different (PS: it isn't).
And then there's the negative conotation that you try to give to people that actually enjoy being able to kill stuff solo in the open-world. I love that when I need materials I can just go outside and kill stuff to get them, instead of needing a full party to support me.
That's not to say that I wouldn't like more open-world content in the form of popped NMs, similar to the system that is already employed for leve mobs, but this argument that "open-world mobs are less controlled" is simply a fallacy.
*rolls eyes*Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxthunder
I want more from the game, I just don't want crap content. And most people wanting NMs in the open world ARE asking for crap content.
Like the guy below your post mentioned, take off those rose-tinted glasses. I HAVE played FFXI. I played it for four years. Open-world mobs are exactly the same as dungeon mobs in terms of predictability, and it says a lot when your only actual example of an "uncontrolled" event that can happen in the open-world is nothing more than other people bringing mobs on top of you and has absolutely nothing to do with open-world mobs being more unpredictable (which is blatantly false).
FFXI's world wasn't more alive than FFXIV's. They're pretty much the same except that I cna actually kill most of the stuff in the open-world of FFXIV as opposed to having to run from most high level mobs in FFXI. That certainly was "fun". -
11-30-2013, 03:41 AMMaxthunder
[QUOTE=Gilthas;1612830] snip
In other words you accept whatever they give you instead of asking for more. Asking for something that isnt instanced or hand/out/holding. The open world can be more than it is a dungeon is just that a dungeon it is always the same will never change. The open world you have various random things that can happen and do happen it is less controlled due to the variables. Go play XI watch all the variables in action, from a mob that you can kill to a mob that will own you, add in a pinch of a random player bringing a mob your way that end ups joining in on your fight. Everything around you feels alive unlike what we currently have in XIV nothing feels alive the world feels bland the instanced dungeons offer nothing but a linear path and very little variables. Anything can and will happen in the XI open world but in the XIV open world it is always the same nothing new nothing different, this goes for the dungeons as well in XIV. -
11-30-2013, 04:09 AMDyvidOkay, so look at FFXI without rose tinted glasses. Mobs with no chains = MPK. Mobs that could own a solo player = use of sneak invis to include speed running to a boss. Lovely HNM with rare drops? = griefing heaven. There is good reason things are the way they are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxthunder
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11-30-2013, 04:23 AMBaxternot defending it or anything -who knows how the final product will look? (my guess is not so different than what it is now) But even though this being true, most of it is in the loosely termed "open world".Quote:
Originally Posted by Reslin
As for the korean grinder comment, I don't mind a slow leveling process as long as the game has the content to facilitate it. If your 16 hours is a straight trash quest or mob grind, then that's awful. If it's a pleasant ride filled with things like adequate story, fun events, challenging experiences with friends and meaningful storyline - I can't say I see that as a bad thing. -
11-30-2013, 06:24 AMLecreuset
This thread looks familiar..
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11-30-2013, 06:43 AMVelhartYou mean the "This needs to be FFXI-2" thread we see at least 5-6 times a week usually made by the same people?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lecreuset
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11-30-2013, 07:08 AMTupsiIt's not called speed running, it's called not getting your butt killed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyvid
The Irony is XI does certain aspects better than XIV is doing currently that should have been included in ARR's launch, even in terms of inventory management, which as we all know is pretty much the most ironic thing considering how many issues we had with it in the past.Quote:
Originally Posted by Velhart
So if XI-2 means SE showing what they've actually gained from 11 years and 3 MMOs worth of experience? Sure! -
11-30-2013, 07:16 AMMaxthunder
[QUOTE=Dyvid;1612936] snip
Its this way because you or a group of players like you dont like anything that will/could be tossed your way , you dont like to deal with things that can happen and will happen. So basicly you want a game that is boring and linear. Just because bad things happen players need to deal with it, it is not the end of the world. XIV has no excitement, it cant even stand on its own and players are getting bored and tired of fates as well as dungeons. Everything is handed to you on a silver platter, there is no high risk, high reward. Players are given the same ole low risk/reward system. A game should be fun a game should be challenging, it should make you think and XIV dose none of that (coil is probably the only thing that present some what of a challenge), but it dose 1 thing well, it will put you to sleep. Players need to stop trying to control or have the devs control the environment and let the game play out so that it feels alive not boring and dull.
NO one is asking for XI-2 they are asking for an open world that has meaning and feels alive, that offers something other than mobs that they can face roll. Currently the open world has no meaning it isnt alive there is nothing to it, it isnt dynamic, its static to the point that its down right boring. -
11-30-2013, 07:56 AMLuckyKnucklesThe video that you refer to isn't even "HNM". However, I can see that if your claiming skills suck bad enough it could cause you grief. This does not mean it should not be in the game. For some reason the people that can't hang w/ end game content think its a good idea to just omit that content from the game all together. Why? b/c they are selfish and can't stand the idea of others progressing beyond themselves. The fact is that this game is extremely lacking in open world content. All this instanced crap is boring, and not challenging at all. The only semi-challenging content in the game right now is coil. I don't want to level all my jobs b/c it is that boring. Fates suck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyvid
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11-30-2013, 07:56 AMVelhartThat seems pretty opinionated. I think people can just as easily say that XI did a lot of things that people would never accept in a game that plays on modern day standards like ARR. What you and other players who throw these threads numerous times a week is that you won't ever take down this system, which is what you sound like you want to happen. Which isn't happening, especially in the successful state the game is in. Game is certainly not in the same place 1.xx was. As I said in my previous post, you need to find ideas that work with the system already in place like expanding on guildleves. However, the only ideas these people who make these threads are ideas of destructive criticism and don't see how the ideas affect the game as a whole and demands unrealistic expectations which not only the developers, but Yoshi-P said himself will not work in this game. Learn to work with the system to make itself better, not tear it down and go to the drawing board. If you really want an FFXI-2 and don't like the current direction FFXI is currently going? Go to their forums and complain to bring it back. Don't take it out on FFXIV, a completely different game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tupsi
Funny enough they sure as hell didn't show it with 1.xx.Quote:
So if XI-2 means SE showing what they've actually gained from 11 years and 3 MMOs worth of experience? Sure!
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11-30-2013, 08:04 AMTenku
This game seriously needs more open world content and more solo content for end game. Ah, I miss Ragnarok Online. Too bad that game is 15 years old.
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11-30-2013, 08:10 AMLiadansWhisperNo, it was 16 hours of desperately looking for quests that were difficult to find and often 2+ levels over your current level, because none of the quests gave enough XP to properly level you. Which resulted in you taking on quests that were not tuned for the level you were, and getting 1-2 shot by the end bosses (which, for whatever reason, you often couldn't even do with party members, as I found out much to my frustration). Mob grinding was a bit pointless since the mobs gave almost no XP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Baxter
I won't get started about the interface or completely mindless healing.
The world is huge. It's also empty and boring. Here's hoping it actually WILL change, because I want to play the damn game. -
11-30-2013, 08:37 AMDragonHunterG
i never played 1.0 but today i watched some videos of regular fights againsts some coblyns and i thought to myself, my gosh this looks very boring. i think they've spiced up the game very nicely. some of the ideas here are good, i'd definitely prefer more open world type of content but i definitely dont want them to go backwards either. i played WoW only briefly and never played GW2, so i'm lucky in the sense that i am not burned out on these MMORPG conventions and everything is really fun and exciting to me. i also like the old-school RPG grind. call me crazy but that's what i cut my teeth on back in the day and it just feels right to me.
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11-30-2013, 08:39 AMArtamie
I feel that XI made the world feel more alive, XIV's world feels really static in comparison. In XI we had all sorts of timed/weather events like an erupting volcano in the distant background, geysers in the wadi the activity of which heralded the appearance of a special monster as well as helped players access normally inaccessible areas, an occasional aurora over Qufim, monsters that appeared/disappeared depending on weather/time, and the list could go on. While it's much too premature to say that XIV won't have these things, I do hope they will improve along these lines sometime in the future. I'm still eagerly searching the background of the Black Shrouds for the towering adamantoise shown in the XIV trailer. Here's an idea: how about high/low tide map changes for the Sahagin stronghold?
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11-30-2013, 08:58 AMSkoltnik
What I think is, you guys that played 1.0 and liked it will obviously never like 2.0...it's too different. Like op stated it's a mix between wow and GW, and for people like me ,that's a good thing. There is a reason why they changed the game so much....you can't please everyone when you create art and it will always be that way. It may be hard for some of you guys, but if you don't like a videogame, stop playing it. It's as simple as that.
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11-30-2013, 09:05 AMTenkuThe game is great right now, but we're not asking them to change the game completely. We are asking them to add more open world content, solo play content, and more things to do that can enhance your character at end game that doesn't have a lockout. They don't have to change the game to add these things.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skoltnik
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11-30-2013, 09:24 AMBabydoll
Can we EVERRRRR get a dev response on open world content?
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11-30-2013, 09:34 AMKillanceI doubt it, SE has always been a Hush-Hush type until they are close to done with the game...Quote:
Originally Posted by Babydoll
Aside from KH3. -
11-30-2013, 09:52 AMVelhartQuote:
Originally Posted by Babydoll
SE has already come out and said various times both in dev responses in the beta forums and live letters that they have FATE as the general approach to open world content. While I don't 100% agree with the statement, they are bringing in content that is open world and not revolved around FATE like treasure hunting and beastmen quest. You are better off asking to make some things in open world content more significant like guildleves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Killance
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11-30-2013, 09:56 AMDyvidCan you be a lot more specific into what you are asking? I think it would be cool if ______. I would like to see ______ added. Open world content is such a blanket term the devs will never understand what you want. I would like to see a bigger push on party based Guildleve. Also would be nice for more "end game" rewards for end game FATE and Lv. 50 Guildleve. Maybe a currency exchange system.Quote:
Originally Posted by Babydoll
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11-30-2013, 10:04 AMLuckyKnucklesNot just certain things. FF11 does many many things better than this game. FF11 is still a better game than 14. So many people have complained that they don't want this to be anything like ff11, that they actually are getting what they want. A much worse game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tupsi
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11-30-2013, 10:35 AMLuckyKnucklesSomething you don't seem to get is that this is a Final Fantasy MMO. It is an insult to Final Fantasy MMO players to make this game a Guild Wars and WoW mix. I played 1.0 and honestly I didn't think it was a good game. I played 11 and did think it was a good game. I wish they would take everything in this game that resembles wow and gw and throw it in the trash. FF14 is losing the player base that got it this far to begin with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skoltnik
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11-30-2013, 10:39 AMchococoWhether updates are coming or not, whether they are given time or not, the game philosophy will still be a vertical progression gear grind. New updates render old content obsolete. It's like putting a hamster in one of those treadmill things where they just keep running for the sake of running.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zafrei
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11-30-2013, 10:51 AMDyvidIs there an emote for scratch ones head in puzzlement? It's an MMO. They all have the same treadmill run. And yes, FFXI did too. It's the nature of the beast. If they didn't give players a goal with every new update, nobody would resub.Quote:
Originally Posted by chococo
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11-30-2013, 10:52 AMchococoum..... great buffalo for buffalo horn, axe and lance head to craft what was the best weapon at the time???? goblin NM in shroud for sleeves and blunt sword to craft aeolian scimitar??? dodore for dodore's wing to craft dodore's doublet, which was also the best crafting body??Quote:
Originally Posted by yukikaze_yanagi
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11-30-2013, 10:57 AMchococoNot saying there won't be a grind for an MMOs. Like you said there will always be a need for new objectives to keep ppl resubbing. But how fast things become obsolete in this game is the issue. WP > ifrit > garuda > titan > relic. The time you spend farming, say an ifrit or garuda weapon, you could've gotten your relic already. One weapon/gear in each tier outclasses the predecessors entirely.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyvid
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11-30-2013, 10:59 AMmidnitdragoon
when will they make ff11 hd......? all im wanting more and more everyday is a hd version of ff11...this games giving me headache
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11-30-2013, 11:15 AMLiadansWhisper
I feel like a lot of people in this thread have enchanted rose-colored glasses on.
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11-30-2013, 11:17 AMMaxthunder
[QUOTE=Skoltnik;1613482] snip
This game would not be that bad if they stopped making everything instanced, added dynamics to the open world. They could have used the good from XI but they didnt, they decided to copy WOW and other games and all they accomplished was making a work that isnt dynamic, everything is practically instanced. Those who are pointing this oput now understand, but those that just say no it isnt that way will find out sooner or later that XIV is boring and stagnant. There is nothing to do in the open world it is all eye candy. Leves I can zerg in 5 mins, fates are exactly the same, dungeons after you have ran them 20 times or more become just like the open world linear, boring and stagnant. This game has potential but do you and all the other players wish to put your fears aside? Someone in an earlier post mentioned claim wars and griefing, well I got news for you it still exist today in XIV in some shape or form, players need to stop being butt hurt about that stuff and move on. -
11-30-2013, 11:18 AMTupsiLikewise, lots will accept anything SE throws at them with no complaint :)Quote:
Originally Posted by LiadansWhisper