Our Tanks take care of HV in T2 and its np, only time i assist whit silence is on the ADS in the begining of T1 when tanks are split up. Monk can easly assist when needed also.Quote:
Originally Posted by AkashiXI
Only reason grps /shout for 2 x bard in coil is couse they dont want to handle silence themself or they copy/pasted the first rumor/guide that came out.
As things are right now, its pure loss to bring brd x2 due to Our low dps. any other dps role will preform far better in coil.
Mnk, smn, blm is insane damage, same whit Drg, but it could be nice to see Drg get some utility boost aswell as the dps boost it gets. Fact is, Brd dont take ur spot in coil, its the lazy grp leaders that makes it so....
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11-25-2013, 06:53 AMPhai
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11-25-2013, 07:00 AMPhaiDont stand in Wineport and belive pug /shout's for coil is the best way to solve the encounters, 2x brd is a cripple'd grp. So there u have it, 3 more dps plz.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lupus
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11-25-2013, 07:43 AMViridianaIt's still not *needed*. It's been mentioned on these boards before that a MNK can solo interrupt ADS if the group is willing to deal with the MNK spacing a few attacks to ensure their silence is up. Or the more common PLD/BRD split, or 2xPLD. Or PLD/MNK, or BRD/MNK, though I'm not sure how well MNK does at alternating with the other classes. . .Quote:
Originally Posted by Lupus
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11-25-2013, 08:17 AMKitkatUm, if you played 1.0 then you would know that brd was just as strong in 1.0 also. Sorry, 1.0 brd was much better in dps/support than it is now just because of all the major design changes they made to TP/MP, regeneration in battle, and how actions work for brd. They were stronger in support, but they weren't any weaker than they are now, in fact they were stronger in 1.0.Quote:
Originally Posted by Enfarious
Group I did coils with found it better to have a brd/pld do silence rather than have 2 brd do the silence since it opened another slot for a DD (such as drg or another blm. It works just as smoothly and doesn't make tanking any harder either. Having mnk help isn't necessary, but it is an option too as a fall back. People just didn't want to put another responsibility on the tank for whatever reason they had for it...be it laziness or not thinking the pld could reasonably work a rotation with brd.Quote:
Originally Posted by Viridiana
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11-25-2013, 08:29 AMDrakkurYou realize that Bards do even more in raids right? Disembowel on the target, food, potions. Yes, I've done Twintania, like I told the guy who asked for my parses, I don't save my fights previously, but I will post some from tonight's round of attempts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhained
The only time a Bard's DPS ever drops below optimum is when the boss disappears or mechanics like conflag...
I just get so sick of people saying "Oops I can only do 220 DPS, Bards must be complete garbage". I think people who play Bards tend to find the rotation unchallenging so they don't try to go beyond the basics, they don't go for that next level.
Bards are a jack of all trades, that does very strong dps under all circumstances. -
11-25-2013, 08:53 AMLeon_StormrageNop. Just no... The mobs are not level 50 in Raids. They have better resistances than a Dummie, so it's impossible to do more damage in Raids than in a dummie but You are talking about T5 sorry but I don't belive in you D:Quote:
Originally Posted by Drakkur
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11-25-2013, 10:03 AMDrakkurDisembowelQuote:
Originally Posted by Leon_Stormrage
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11-25-2013, 11:04 AMLeon_Stormrage"Bonus: Reduce target's piercing resistance by 10%"Quote:
Originally Posted by Drakkur
Yes, I see all clear now... -
11-25-2013, 06:01 PMRhainedAnd you allrdy mentioned you had a dragoon using disembowel in your target dummy parse.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drakkur
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11-25-2013, 08:10 PMCharas
The OP requested an answer from the devs, i believe most bards would have liked an answer, and then once again, as everytime on every bard thread , a group of kiddo came to spam it and ruin it all. Who cares if someone won t post data gathered on broken parsers? none of them work! It amazes me to see as so many ppl keep believing in those meaningless numbers, being parsers (not accurate) or best rotations... or i d k what. We play an mmo, and a good mmo player, this apply to every classes, adapt, and do not spam blindy the same rotation no matter what.
Anyway, on topic! now that we are sure bard s changes will only affect cross class skills... i can claim it \o/ My DPS is INSANE (when not using song ofc, but who is dumb enougth to use songs non stop on dps races?). That's how it is, i have no need to proove anything. That being said, i do know my dps will drop in a way or in another with the next big patch, but i would really apreciate to know what exactly will happen to my class.
You posted Warrior buff details dayyyyys ago, why not post Bard nerf detail now? :P Cmon be kind with your fellow lil harp players Devs! -
11-26-2013, 03:33 AMDevils
I am fine with losing Blood for Blood, with our low HP pool that was kind of dangerous anyway and should be saved for burn phases most times anyways. I am fine being not top DD on my Bard. I understand I need to sing Ballad or Foe at certain points to make the most of it which lowers my DPS. If they release a pure DD Archer or Musketeer I will stick with Bard because it if fun and has good utility. I hated Bard in FFXI because it was TOTAL support and was very boring to play. At least this keeps us in the action and we get great raid support to boot, and we have silence :)
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11-26-2013, 04:23 AMglen7187I agree with this. I think the whole mobility thing is the "niche" or mechanic of an archer/bard and they should let us keep that. If they are going to modify the cross class skills, they could just change it back to ARC/CON. But then I foresee a problem where there may be many bards who do not have CON leveled so that possibly may not be a practical solution unfortunately.Quote:
Originally Posted by Apinaheebo
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11-26-2013, 04:45 AMEasymodeXQuote:
Originally Posted by Rhained
Disembowel is roughly a 7% increase in BRD damage output.Quote:
Here is me, dpsing with another very geared BRD in my guild (he was screwing around and only had half the uptime). No Piecing debuff on the target,
Note: Twintania has multi-target and sort-of AOE mechanics so DPS can increase beyond single target (actually, with the whole afk phases of the fight, it more or less balances the DPS back to "single target-ish" levels). -
11-26-2013, 05:17 AMPellegriRemoving lancer and giving us conjurer however causes another problem. You know what titan/turn 2/4/5 would be like without invigorate? Having to sit there for 20secs of gimped dps so we can regain our own tp just sounds amazing when we could either be contributing more dmg to the fight or using a more beneficial song that affects more than just us. If they were to remove lancer they would have to then rebalance our tp gain so it would make up for the loss of invigorate, something I highly doubt they would put the thought into and just keep us gimped without invig or a tp regen buff.Quote:
Originally Posted by glen7187
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11-26-2013, 05:35 AMLuso
It's a good chance blood for blood is being reworked away from bards. They didn't say anything in the letter of changing sub classes for bard. Rather they mentioned sub class skill will be adjusted.
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11-26-2013, 05:49 AMAllyrionSE is the king of vague.Quote:
Originally Posted by Luso
Always keep'em guessing, I say. -
11-26-2013, 06:07 AMPhaiWell, thats the truth right there ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Allyrion
(Not Allyrion Quote anymore ;)
Anyway, BfB i dont mind removed or reworked at all. invigorate on the other hand will cripple brd way to much imo.
But i did not play brd in 1.0, so please explain to me how conj cross class would make any sence in endgame? Cure? nope... Stoneskin? nope (our mana is reserved to give healers mana) sleep someone said? where u need sleep? havent seen that been used beside speedruns in WP.... and conj is a single target sleep right? -.-
As most ppl know, 2 x bard is gimped in most situations, and its just plain stupid to bring that to coil. Melee dps is like in most mmo's not favor'd to stack in endgame, so i wounder, give brd a nerf, give melee a well deserved dps boost (tho mnk is insane as it is), and what will change? i think the real issue will still stand strong even if u removed brd from the game. -
11-26-2013, 06:55 AMWiseWolfHoloThis is the real problem, now I don't know if I want to dump more myth into bard or not depending on how gimp it gets, besides at endgame anyway u can have the pally silence along with selene for the first 2 turns or just have a monk do it all, so bard really does not fit in if they take away too much of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Allyrion
In 1.0 it was alright because you could heal, was not great but still better than what say a blm/smn does in 2.0. You could raise which you cant do now unless you are not in battle if you are not a healer class. You could SS was not the best but it went off your vit and so did protect, so sometimes it was better for a high vit bard to cast protect over a weaker geared whm.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phai
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11-26-2013, 07:18 AMLuso
Conjurer sleep would not be very useful on a bard. How many times does a party call for sleep (wp speed run excluded, but even then it's a black mage sleep). Crowd controlling monsters is kind of a joke. The current content is easy to complete without relying on heavy crowd controls. Also, sleep is currently useless in Coil.
In all honesty, there are very few cross-class skills that are awesome to cross class for each job. Then we are stuck with the sub-par cross-class skills that are much weaker outside of their respective class. -
11-26-2013, 07:22 AMglen7187You speak truth, I forgot about Invigorate which I use religiously in every long battle... I was thinking more like swap PGL with CON but like I said that would be too impractical.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pellegri
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11-26-2013, 07:30 AMLusoBard would lose (From Pugilist):Quote:
Originally Posted by glen7187
- Internal Release
- Mantra
- Second Wind
- Featherfoot
- Haymaker (lol)
- Cure
- Stoneskin
- Aero (??)
- ???
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11-26-2013, 08:51 AMwarren-ragnarok
what bothers me more is the people complaining about the brd nerfs, brd is supposed to be a support role....they could also be preparing for future split class, where archer goes into another job, and is a REAL dps, but thats just a guess........still too soon to say for sure
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11-26-2013, 09:37 AMPhaiWhere u get it from that Brd is support role? Did not Yoshi once say that he did not want a support role in 2.0? where in the 4 man content u find room for support role?Quote:
Originally Posted by warren-ragnarok
Brd have songs, while used lowers dps 20%, Beside of that, they have silence... Mnk have silence, drg does not, maybe cut mnk dps 20% lower than drg then?
I would think it would be Clear pointers toward Brd beeing a support role if there was sutch a thing in xiv atm. The penalty for movment and the utility already have that class far Down on dps in endgame!
All i see is Mnk and Drg's talking about "Real" dps, and trash Brd as much as they can.
Tbh if u remove Brd from game, ppl will just stack another ranged dps in most cases, like blm/smn, as things are atm, and u would just be forced to scream nerf for those classes couse the issue toward melee dps still stands.
Nerfing bard might be right for ur kind, but its sure as hell not the solution to any problems for melee in endgame. and trust me, i want to see more Mnk and Drg pew pew trough coil etc.. -
11-26-2013, 09:39 AMWiseWolfHolowhat bothers me more is ppl who think bard is some OP class when it has less dps than monk, drg and heck even a good blm beats it, so why are we nerfing it again, oh wait cause casuals QQ too much and don't know there class and think bards out dps them. The real problem is that bard really has no support other than silence and we can blame SE for not thinking outside the box and doing something more with ballads, such as making armys restore TP and boost parties determination by say 10%, make mages idk do MP and increase magic resistances of party by 10%. Really that is all you have to do and if they really wanted to adjust y limit cross class skills, just decimal adjust the damage a point of dex does and add those extra suggested buffs to ballads and then you have a supporter class.Quote:
Originally Posted by warren-ragnarok
As well as this, Yoshi did say they wanted to make bard less of a supporter because in 1.0 we really could do nothing well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phai
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11-26-2013, 10:03 AMSheydeBRD is a real DPS job. We are based off of a DPS class, archer, and then we get some support abilities to supplement our DPS abilities through our job. Our job doesn't change our core role as a DPS, it just gives us tools to grant a little more support, not boost our dps like DRG/MNK. To counteract the support abilities we get from our job, we were given access to multiple DPS enhancing abilities, more than the so-called 'REAL' DPS classes. Even with those abilities, we are currently sitting in the middle/bottom of the DPSers for parses. Sometimes we do parse higher than everyone, it happens. Most of the time we are lower than the others.Quote:
Originally Posted by warren-ragnarok
I don't know why people are getting all bent out of shape, BRDs are currently in a really good place. This is a TEAM game, you know, you play it with 7 other people all working on the same goal. If you kill the boss, who cares who does the most damage. Try playing with friends and you'll see that they don't care how much damage you do, just what the outcome is. I'm still trying to figure out why the other classes give a crap about bards and need to complain about them. Worry about your own class, try to get that fixed. Quit trying to break mine
Sheyde Farron -
11-26-2013, 10:25 AMZumocanoGood god, thank you. There are 9 DIFFERENT classes that come together to clear an objective. If you want the highest dps, go play monk, dragoon, or black mage. Coil groups are still going to need a bard for its silence, Ballad, Paeon, Foe's. Play the damn game... IT'S A GAME.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheyde
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11-26-2013, 10:39 AMRhainedDoes Yoshi rly strike you like the kind of guy who would have a job nerfed because of whiners? I dont think so.Quote:
Originally Posted by WiseWolfHolo
You know what hes like with these live letters btw, prob holding this killer bard information so hes got something else to talk about that isnt 2.3 patch. And he did mention why they were being nerfed somewhere.
Now why is he nerfing cross-class skills for them (likely translates to damage) I don't really know but im sure he will explain eventually.
Its the first nerf and buff patch so we can actually see how credible the dev team is at balancing soon enough. -
11-26-2013, 02:55 PMDrakkurHere's my Twintania past dive bombs (we have been shuffling out our slackers so we haven't been able to get a kill). Bards are good DPSers, you just need to know the optimal buff rotation to maximize your DPS. This isn't some 2 min DPS race, its a 9min fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by EasymodeX
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y27...aniaBRDDPS.png
Once again, Zero allagan, all DL but crafted boots and 3 pieces of Myth... -
11-26-2013, 03:08 PMNeonC
Nice numbers! How do you manage your buffs in more condensed fights like ads or titan?
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11-26-2013, 03:40 PMDrakkurFor ADS Turn 1 (turn 2 is very similar) I have some one silence first and I pick up the second.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeonC
My rotation is as follows:
BfB>SS>BL>RS (This is hard, you need to be spamming it to cut off the BL animation after the 1 sec hidden GCD and have it up, at most you should only be clipping by tenths of a second)> Windbite > IR > Venomous > Hawk Eye > HS > Barrage > SS (Only do this is you have more than 8 sec left on BfB, else do Windbite again) > if you SS Windbite > (BL)Repelling Shot > Venomous > (BL)Silence > HS or SS depending on what you did before the DOT reapplication
Why we refresh our dots at the end of the rotation:
First phase of the rotation your dots are only 40% buffed, second phase they will have both piercing from the DRG, Hawk Eye and IR (Still up for debate whether or not bonus crit chance buffs dots after application). -
11-26-2013, 03:46 PMHysterior
I personally would love to have healing spells back but I feel like SMR took that spot (DPS+Cure/Raise capabilities)
So it will probably just be some minor tweeks -
11-26-2013, 03:49 PMLeon_StormrageLet's say that the parse is accurate thing that I don't believe. I like to know what is your party composition? You are having big problems with your other dps.. you dragoons should be doing at least the same damage as you and if you have a caster he should too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drakkur
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11-26-2013, 03:53 PMNeonCRight on, we are going through turn two now just getting a feel for it. Interesting rotation, why not IR before windbite though?Quote:
Originally Posted by Drakkur
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11-26-2013, 04:05 PMDrakkurI didn't get conflagged, they did. Honestly, I consider the DRG I roll with to be one of the best on the server and he typically is right below me in DPS (or above on completely stand still single target fights). The BLM is not that good and I agree with you there. Even if my DPS is inflated cause parsers blow, I still did 108k damage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon_Stormrage
Twintania isn't some mechanically easy fight, there's a ton of movement and a lot of thought needs to go into min/maxing your play. Bards are just the easiest class to do consistently optimal DPS on mechanically challenging fights. -
11-26-2013, 04:20 PMDrakkur1) BL procs only delay your buff rotation and cause you to possibly miss a step not maximizing your DOT damage. 2) 20% damage is stronger than 20% crit when you're not concerned about BL Procs.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeonC
The BRD in our Group 1 who downs twintania does not use a buff before SS and instead does IR instead of either BfB or RS before the initial application of dots. Honestly between the two, It is very minimal in the difference of damage throughout an entire fight. -
11-26-2013, 04:25 PMLeon_StormrageYes, I should agree with you I am not friend of parsers and also I didn't fight twintania yet. But today I was parsing around 240+/- on a dummy without BFB so it can be possible (also I still thinking that the parser is not accurate for a big margin) the fact that you was not trapped helped a lot too but I am surprised for the big difference of the other dps is so much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drakkur
Also I want to ask you too why you use IR after wimdbite and not before?
Edit: I see the answer -
11-26-2013, 11:27 PMWolfhammerThis idea is pure win... Far too an interesting and logical idea for implementation though :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Flionheart
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11-28-2013, 05:12 AMxcifuxMisconceptions
Misconceptions:
Bard is not a support class it is a dps class period!
Bard is not the highest dps. It actually is the lowest and if anyone's parse shows differently then either your prase is broken or other dps classes don't know how to play.
Bards can dodge everything while dpsing. This is true but we take the hit of being not only the lowest dps class but a song bot which lowers our dps by 20%. The exception to this is foes. A good bard needs to judge the fight and know when it's a good idea to use this because it costs mana and it would suck to not have enough mana in order to play mana song in a bind.
- If bards are op then what is an acceptable nerf/fix while not going overboard?
I would say maybe put some kind of timer after a blood letter proc, say 5 seconds idk.
Or maybe put a cast timer on bloodletter.
Or maybe decrease damage across the board while playing songs to 30% -
11-28-2013, 05:16 AMxcifux
Every single game I have played had classes that seem OP or underpowered untill they come in to their own at end game. I for one am under the oppinion that if you are not an endgame player then you should not cry nerf or buff untill you get the full picture.
This game is only a couple of months old. There will be a shit ton of content and changes coming. Don't cry nerf, cry buff if anything! I want to see classes like warriors fixed. I want to see dragoons and monks be able to dps and sustain dps even when dodging. Let's face it boss mechanics in this game are primarily holy shit there is a huge circle around the boss I have to dodge it. That's going to screw up dps / combos. This is not a bards fault this is the games mechanics no amount of nerfing or buffing will fix this. -
11-28-2013, 07:30 AMMooshywooshy
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3671/1...15cd25c2_o.jpg
Well at least by design I think it was meant to be support...
But hey Ninja in XI was supposed to be DPS so have at it!