Does SE not realise their game has no content?

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

XI also took much longer to level up, and by the time you had all the classes you needed leveled, more content had been added. Also XI was released state-side at the same time as the first full expansion. We haven't had an expansion yet, 2.1 isn't an expansion either.

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Yes I know this...but the post I quoted said that: "People will always be saying this, no matter how much they put in. "There's nothing to do, I'm so bored!"

Meaning..when there IS an expansion and we have some actual solid content (Hopefully) I won't be saying this anymore ^^ But as for now...yes I am bored haha but I am here to stay!

I think it is pretty easy to understand to be honest. This game so far, is aimed around casual players at best (ps3 compatibility). Casual meaning the difficulty of content available. Sure, there are plenty of things to do like max out all of the jobs. Crafting, go around reading the lore and enjoying all the other things in the game. But the typical "mmo" tiered raiding/gear progression is lack luster for people who want to focus on one main character (myself). I have not even cleared turn 5 yet so I cannot really complain (waiting on RL friends to get geared still), but I do see where the others who have cleared it are coming from.

This game has a deep cult type following with a majority of the player base being "casual". I am not trying to disrespect anyone or act like an elitist but...the game is tailored for your play style. Unfortunately for players like myself, I do not give a shit about about the lore or the story. I came here because i think this MMO has good raiding potential compared to the other games released in recent years. As of this moment, that potential is looking grim for at least until April 2014.

At the end of the day, SE is a business that needs to make money. How do they make money? they release patches that help the masses of casual players who read all of the text in each quest and enjoy running around with a pumpkin head costume. If that makes 80% of the their subscription paying player base renew each month, can you blame them? If you are into end game raiding and gear progression then I think you should gracefully just bow out of this conversation. Sure, the potential to be a great raiding game is there, but obviously is not currently a top priority.

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Originally Posted by Bearssi

Forum posters coming up with "you have not leveled every class to 50" are making assumption that "the achiever" playstyle is the only playstyle in games.

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Not really. Saying "there is no content" is to present this as a fact; whereas saying "there is no content that I like" is to present an opinion. An argument can be made for the latter, but to state the former as fact is a fallacy.

Ok, so people want more of a certain type of content, that's totally ok. But realize how much time that type of content takes to deliver.

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Originally Posted by saber_alter

have you even considered bringing any of those low-leveled DOW/DOM into dungeons? you don't have to fate grind everything to 50 because it is the "quickest" way.

so much obligation to fast-fast track crap. at least leveling lower classes the non-fate way is a good change of pace from the mindless tome grind.

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I choose not to level them. With the exception of archer, I have every class where I want it to be. It has nothing to do with fate grinding and dungeons. I hit 50 on GLD through quests and dungeons before people even knew that FATEs were what they are. I don't understand what your reply to my post has to do at all with the topic.

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Originally Posted by Raelton

Seriously, I don't really understand how an MMO can release with less content then most single player RPGs.

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Not sure about you but Skyrim was considered one of the biggest single player rpgs ever made. I spend 200+ hours on it. That being said, I spent more hours playing FFVII and FFVIII separately. That being said. I bought XIV when it was still in alpha. CE Edition and all. I went through the sentinel rng exp phase and I have ended up here in ARR. To say it has less content than most single player rpgs. Makes me think you are still stuck at level 15 and are only doing the level 15 dungeons. But seeing as you have a level 50 conj. I can only ascertain that either A: you bought your account. or B: someone did all the fun stuff on your account and you are left with all the boring bits like farming AK and WP.

Or C Fates

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Originally Posted by Rubieus

Not sure about you but Skyrim was considered one of the biggest single player rpgs ever made. I spend 200+ hours on it. That being said, I spent more hours playing FFVII and FFVIII separately. That being said. I bought XIV when it was still in alpha. CE Edition and all. I went through the sentinel rng exp phase and I have ended up here in ARR. To say it has less content than most single player rpgs. Makes me think you are still stuck at level 15 and are only doing the level 15 dungeons. But seeing as you have a level 50 conj. I can only ascertain that either A: you bought your account. or B: someone did all the fun stuff on your account and you are left with all the boring bits like farming AK and WP.

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Let's be honest here, there is way less content here than any numbered Final Fantasy out there.

You think Lightning Returns is getting this treatment? Final Fantasy XV? lol, hah... and those don't even have subscription fees. Better graphics, better story (which I'm sure will be wholly voice acted and provide numerous cinematics) But no, of course, XIV gets a pass because it's an mmo.

This genre needs to reinvent itself.

Still more content than nearly any mmo on release. Not many other pve focused mmos have released with this much starting content. I hear "No content" on every mmo that has launched. I'm starting to think you people who claim "No content" need to start waiting a year or two before getting into an mmo.

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Originally Posted by Krystalynn

Let's be honest here, there is way less content here than any numbered Final Fantasy out there.

You think Lightning Returns is getting this treatment? Final Fantasy XV? lol, hah... and those don't even have subscription fees. Better graphics, better story (which I'm sure will be wholly voice acted and provide numerous cinematics) But no, of course, XIV gets a pass because it's an mmo.

This genre needs to reinvent itself.

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What? Lol, the time it takes to cap your class/job and get the best gear in the game alone will take longer to do than any numbered final fantasy. Most of the modern final fantasy games are extremely linear and lack content in comparison to the older ones (imo) and even they don't have close to the content of this game. Not to mention this game will get more and more content for years to come including expansions giving it a much longer life. Not to mention, imo, playing with other people > Single player anytime.

When I sAw the way to level was thru fates ( and did it that way for a lot of levels) , I knew this game wasn't going to hold me for long.

Nobody measures the worth of a game by the amount of worthless content in it. The main story is basically your usual MMORPG fare that's comparable to fanfiction, except that'd be rude to good fanfiction authors to compare this (and most MMORPG) to it. Therefore the ability to waste a few hundred hours going through the main story, possibly multiple times, is not considered worthwhile. Note that if a single player RPG had a story as bad as FF14 most people would never buy it in the first place.

Just because you wasted a lot of time playing a bad game, doesn't mean the game was actually worth it. It's true in MMORPG most players have expectation to have to waste some time to get to the good parts, but that's really just a fallacy. It's not like having the main story of FF14 being so bad somehow improves the other aspects of the game.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

It's content you haven't done, because each job/class plays differently. There are also stories for each class that you have not seen yet, not to mention crafting and gathering. So, just because you don't want to do it, doesn't mean it's non-existent.

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No there isn't any new content with another class.
Let's use wow As an example.1 character to max lvl and clearing recent raid = beating the game ( sort off)

Now u start another character( ie class in ff) it's the same thing. Except in wow , you can take a different leveling route to your first character and mid it up( different content).

Ff only has 1 main linear way to level, grind the same fates in the same locAtion with the same people over and over , there's no variety at all. Sure , throw in a dungeon and hunting log, but it's all just the same .

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Originally Posted by Astarica

Nobody measures the worth of a game by the amount of worthless content in it. The main story is basically your usual MMORPG fare that's comparable to fanfiction, except that'd be rude to good fanfiction authors to compare this (and most MMORPG) to it. Therefore the ability to waste a few hundred hours going through the main story, possibly multiple times, is not considered worthwhile. Note that if a single player RPG had a story as bad as FF14 most people would never buy it in the first place.

Just because you wasted a lot of time playing a bad game, doesn't mean the game was actually worth it. It's true in MMORPG most players have expectation to have to waste some time to get to the good parts, but that's really just a fallacy. It's not like having the main story of FF14 being so bad somehow improves the other aspects of the game.

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Well you can brood on that all you want, it doesn't change the fact people enjoy what you don't. So maybe the rest of us ignorant masses, who enjoy "bad" things, will just continue having a good time. We'll have to leave it to you heroes of our time to make sure you stand up for us by dwelling upon your own misery. Continue paying for games you don't enjoy and continue paying for monthly subscriptions for them, maybe one day you will save us all...

all 50's and got all the relics

coil and mining is all I got left to do

I don't get all the guys who basically say, "I enjoy paying for a bad game". Yes it's not my business to decide what your tastes are but you're responsible for the fact that MMORPG (and most games in general) continue to be super profitable while turning out seriously subpar products. Sure companies have a right to make as much money as they want, but that doesn't mean you should continue to support getting ripped off. FF14 is worth some money for being the least worst MMORPG currently available and I respect that, but in the long run it'd take more than 'well every other game out there is worse' for me to keep playing it.

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Originally Posted by Astarica

I don't get all the guys who basically say, "I enjoy paying for a bad game". Yes it's not my business to decide what your tastes are but you're responsible for the fact that MMORPG (and most games in general) continue to be super profitable while turning out seriously subpar products. Sure companies have a right to make as much money as they want, but that doesn't mean you should continue to support getting ripped off. FF14 is worth some money for being the least worst MMORPG currently available and I respect that, but in the long run it'd take more than 'well every other game out there is worse' for me to keep playing it.

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Good and bad is subjective. Name a good MMORPG that you actually believe is worth spending money on today. Name a movie too. A book perhaps. No matter what it is, someone will say (with total honesty) you're wrong, though you won't believe. You can say you like GTA, I can honestly say I don't. You can say CoD and BF games are the best of the FPS genre, I don't care for them. In fact, I have my own outlook towards those games, particularly popular FPS games, that they're just subpar or rehashed material. The only difference between you and I is that I don't throw obviously insulting statements when I'm being passive aggressive.

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Originally Posted by Reslin

What? Lol, the time it takes to cap your class/job and get the best gear in the game alone will take longer to do than any numbered final fantasy. Most of the modern final fantasy games are extremely linear and lack content in comparison to the older ones (imo) and even they don't have close to the content of this game. Not to mention, imo, playing with other people > Single player anytime.

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Time taking to get to something isn't 'content'. This would be like having to run Stage 2-3 in Mario at least 50 times to get the key to the last level. It is literally farm status repeating the same content over and over to be able to access new content. When you sit back and look at game experiences as a whole and compare it to something like FFXV, you tell me if the money spent here is reflected like it is in that work when it comes to quality and presentation, over experience, vistas and locales, game features, combat depth. Really?

Next time you see a fate zerg an nm encounter in thirty seconds , stop and say "This is Final Fantasy XIV" and let it sink in.

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Originally Posted by KyteStones

Sooooo... no content you say? After a quick character search of your character this is brought to my attetion:
http://i.imgur.com/Z9PqF7H.png

You are nowhere NEAR done with this game. You leveled 1 Job class to 50. Didn't you hear? Each class has it's own back story, which is a storyline all on its own! Perhaps if the above picture showed you at all 50's then yes, i'd say you are done, go take a break, go read a book, and wait until 2.1 and 2.2 but you are far from done! Sure you have a WHM all decked out. That's one character. That's one job storyline you have completed. No content...jeez kids these days.

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So go play all the other jobs and FATE grind to 50, DUH! We call that Content!

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Originally Posted by Dhaenon

So go play all the other jobs and FATE grind to 50, DUH! We call that Content!

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In a manner of speaking, it is content. It's just something some people don't consider content. Content has a variety of enjoyment.

1) Raids
2) Leveling
3) FATEs
4) Crafting
5) Dungeons
6) Hunting Logs
7) GC Seal Farming
8) Myth/Philo Farming
9) Primals ( Normal/Hard and soon Extreme)
10) Coil
11) Crystal Tower
12) Beastman Dalies
13) Main Storyline
14) Upping Your GC Rank

etc etc. They are all content. To me personally, if something is occupying time in this game for you, then it's content. Without Content, you would have nothing to do ( which means you couldn't waste time on this game doing anything except chatting).

I realize literally every MMORPG has its fanboys saying "This game has more stuff than any other game at launch". First, that statement can't even be true unless the amount of available content at launch in a MMORPG is ever increasing, and second, that doesn't even matter because your game is competing against MMORPG of today, not ten years ago. It'd be generous to call this game average in terms of content quantity and quality, but even while being generous, paying $15/month for 'average' in the hyper-competitive MMORPG market is grossly overpaying. For $15 a month you can get the dominant leader in content in absolute numbers, WoW, and you can make a good argument that it could be up there even qualitatively. Now content, believe it or not, isn't actually everything or nobody would ever quit WoW just to play something with 1/10th the total content compared to it. Hope and innovation is well worth spending money for, but hope can only keep you going for so long, which is why it's totally reasonable for fans to demand hope and innovation turns into something more concrete. And yes, 2.1 is supposed to deliver that hope, which is probably the only reason why this game haven't had the usual crash in population. Despite this game being thoroughly average overall, it does have a lot of hope which is something I don't see in other MMORPGs. Note that a game like WoW also has no hope. Unless you've been living in a cave, you know WoW is never going to change significantly from its formula, so you'd never play WoW on hope. But FF14 is different enough to sell on hope, as long as it delivers that hope in a timely manner.

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What if people have no interests in leveling other classes or crafts?

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Not being interested is one thing, but pretending content doesn't exist because you're not interested in it doesn't mean there's "no content." "less content than an SP RPG" is also bull honkey. Let's time warp back to the Japanese launch of FFXI. (go ahead, reasearch it) It had less content than this game has now.

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First, that statement can't even be true unless the amount of available content at launch in a MMORPG is ever increasing,

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What is this I don't even? No, it can be true without your conditions. Different games have different amounts of content (though it's not a really easy thing to quantify). It hasn't been "ever increasing" throughout MMO history.

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It'd be generous to call this game average in terms of content quantity and quality,

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No. It is easily above average in both for a game in its launch version. Also, most people here aren't paying $15/m (at least, I hope they're not) when there are two ways to pay considerably less (3 if you count legacy). I've hardly seen more well crafted dungeons and zones in an MMO- FFXIV's environments are far more sophisticated than WoW's and most other MMOs even.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Let's time warp back to the Japanese launch of FFXI. (go ahead, reasearch it) It had less content than this game has now.

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Nah cos' comparing a 2000 game with a 2013 game is comical.

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Originally Posted by Raelton

Seriously, I don't really understand how an MMO can release with less content then most single player RPGs. Even if the game was released with the content being brought in 2.1, there's still such a ridiculous lack of time filling activities. Any player with more then 5 hours a week to play this game has pretty much already completed everything it has to offer and they arn't even releasing any harder end game content in the next patch. And yes, we all know about the EXTREME primals. But seriously, 4 more bosses with pretty much the same mechanics? And PVP is being released!!! With a 2.5second GCD and major game delay for anyone that doesn't live in East Canada.

I really do want to WANT to play this game, obviously being a Final Fantasy game I've tried everything to make this game a fun experience for me. But I just don't see any hope.

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5 hours per week cleared all of the content? You cleared all of the content in 65 hours?

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Not being interested is one thing, but pretending content doesn't exist because you're not interested in it doesn't mean there's "no content." "less content than an SP RPG" is also bull honkey. Let's time warp back to the Japanese launch of FFXI. (go ahead, reasearch it) It had less content than this game has now.

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Raiding players would consider that a stretch in terms of calling it content. You could make the case that any RPG always has more content, because your characters are not level 99 yet, your GP isn't maxed, you don't have 99 of every item, in the end these things are rather pointless, in the case of leveling alts and crafting classes, they won't help you at all to tackle the last challenges, the same way that if you can already beat the most difficult bosses in a regular RPG, maxing out all the 9's in the status screen is going to be a waste of time.

Actually what should be compared when comparing the starting content between to games is the amount of time spent creating the game. So if one game took 3 years to build and another 4 I would expect more out of the one that took 4 years as they had one extra year. What year it was created means nothing as it may take more time to do things do to people expecting greater graphics as computer are able to handle more and more.

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Originally Posted by Arriverderci

Nah cos' comparing a 2000 game with a 2013 game is comical.

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Actually my previous analogy to capping battle relevant stats was probably not as good as this one:

Equate hamstering alts and crafting classes to maxing out a step counter in a game like FFVI. It's there to do, but aside from being busy work doing it will also not help you get through the game's opponents in any way, and in the case of pug and master pug will actually hurt you.

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Originally Posted by Roaminggnome

Actually what should be compared when comparing the starting content between to games is the amount of time spent creating the game.

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More like compare it to newer mmos not something a decade old.

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Originally Posted by Toystore

Actually my previous analogy to capping battle relevant stats was probably not as good as this one:

Equate hamstering alts and crafting classes to maxing out a step counter in a game like FFVI. It's there to do, but aside from being busy work doing it will also not help you get through the game's opponents in any way, and in the case of pug and master pug will actually hurt you.

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Maxing out step counter actually gets you some permanent gain in power in the end (though you're usually better off just casting Ultima).

I maxed out my sphere grid in FFX because it was fun and it took about twice the time compared to the rest of the time I spent on the game. But I'm sure plenty of people never bothered with the arena and that's perfectly fine. Maxing out the grid is not content for FFX, though of course the game wasn't built around maxing out the grid.

Well, yeah, there's that one blue magic spell for Strago, step mine, that will increase in power with the step counter, other than that I really don't understand why this even hogs up space in the status screen.

OH look! The chicken and egg arguments!

If you feel there's nothing else to do in this game outside of what you've just completed, it means you've never set yourself any more goals to begin with.

When people do something, they do something with a goal in mind. For example, the most obvious goal everyone works towards to is being geared, and clearing Coil Turn 5. Sometimes you accept you cannot clear Turn 5 any time soon, so you tell yourself you are content with Turn 4. And once you don't have a goal anymore, your motivation disappears, and eventually "I am bored, there is nothing to do in this game, this game sucks".

Fact of the matter is, nobody can change your view on that. We can continuously keep arguing that there's plenty of content to do, there's nothing to do, etc. Fact of the matter remains that, as long as the people who complain that there is nothing to do don't give themselves that motivation, they will continue complaining it's boring. And similarly, the ones who pace themselves or who have lots of goals will continue telling such people that there's more than enough content to last till 2.1, which is only a few weeks away fortunately.

I have way too many goals in this game that I have listed in another thread, but for argument's sake, here it is again:
1. Leveling CUL to 37 (I am currently 21).
2. Pick up CRP and level that to 50.
3. Level WVR to 50 (I am currently at 15).
4. Craft my own HQ Aetheryte Ring and spiritbond it.
5. Leveling MRD to 50 (I am currently 1).
6. Leveling ARC to 34 (I am currently 15).
7. Leveling ACN to 34 (I am currently 4).
8. Leveling CNJ to 34 (I am currently 15).
9. Once I get to MRD 50, I want to craft my own Bardiche, spiritbond HQ Amber accessories (which I will craft by myself) to meld into the Bardiche, and use it for relic.
10. Leveling DRG to 50 (I am currently 1).
11. Once I get DRG to 50, I intend to craft my own Champion's Lance and meld the weapon myself for relic too.
12. Start Botanist and level that to 20.
13. Outfit my crafting classes with HQ AF gear, with materia I will spiritbond and earn myself.
14. Record a bunch of tanking videos and upload them to YouTube to help the community.
15. Get my full Battlemage set from Brayflox - I am still missing the legs and boots.
16. Hit 1million gil in the bank (I have 750k now).
17. Get Garuda's Feather and Ifrit's Horn.
18. Once 17 is done, get 2 more feathers, 2 more horns, and 1 more Titan's Heart.
19. Get Valor Coronet and Valor Surcoat for my PLD (will take about 4 weeks - could be shorter if myth cap increase comes soon).

I may have others, but these are the few I can think off the top of my head. 9 of which involve leveling - 5 of which involve FATE-ing. If you already have done all of those, then good for you, go and find some other goals. But point is, you can create goals for yourself, and in turn be motivated. If you choose not to, then continue sitting and complaining that there is nothing to do. If you've already done everything, and a little bit more, go get a breather, play some other games, go out for a walk, travel to a different country. If you want to keep it within the game, go help the community. Queue for some random Sastashas, and guide new players along.

I feel that in a game like this, you also need to plan out not only your progression, but what comes after. This is the part where people start complaining stuff is boring, and that there's nothing to do. I just think people need to be more open-minded about things that they want to do. If they don't think anything else will interest them, they could be like Starlord and just pace themselves slowly. Nothing wrong with being slow, as long as you feel you're getting your money's worth of enjoyment out of the game.

Many don't plan to fail, but many fail to plan.

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Originally Posted by Arriverderci

Nah cos' comparing a 2000 game with a 2013 game is comical.

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No more comical than comparing it to another 2013 game.

It's as valid a comparison as any. Games don't necessarily launch with more content now than they did then. Prettier content, different content, but not necessarily more or less.

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More like compare it to newer mmos not something a decade old.

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Age is irrelevant. There are games in every genre made 10 years ago that have just as much of a quantity of content as games made today. Even if you limit comparison to the last 2 years, I haven't seen a significant MMO launch with more content than FFXIV did.

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I realize literally every MMORPG has its fanboys saying "This game has more stuff than any other game at launch".

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This isn't a "fanboy" statement. It's a statement that can be legitimately true or false regardless of being a fan or not.

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Originally Posted by Krystalynn

Time taking to get to something isn't 'content'. This would be like having to run Stage 2-3 in Mario at least 50 times to get the key to the last level. It is literally farm status repeating the same content over and over to be able to access new content. When you sit back and look at game experiences as a whole and compare it to something like FFXV, you tell me if the money spent here is reflected like it is in that work when it comes to quality and presentation, over experience, vistas and locales, game features, combat depth. Really?

Next time you see a fate zerg an nm encounter in thirty seconds , stop and say "This is Final Fantasy XIV" and let it sink in.

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Really? If you take out time required to level in any of the final fantasy series the game would be over quick. You realize FF8 as an example has been completed in 6 hours? Guess there's not much content there, eh?

id like to see more open world content, with everything being instanced, it makes the world feel a little bland and lifeless.

People always talk about the feeling of immersion, one immersion breaker for me is having a loading screen over and over and over and over.

Id like to see a large open map added onto Mor Dhona, with monsters that take a 4 person party or more to kill, it would be fun to sit out there with friends and farm monsters instead of doing dungeons always.

Raptor parties 1.0! i miss open world parties like that.

I find it ridiculous people think you need all jobs to be bored, it's not a valid argument in any other mmo and other than having all your basic cross class/job abilities, it's not valid here either.

Most content release compared to any mmo boils down to two things really

1) Fate.
2) Repeatables.

Just finish Coil turn 1. And my guildhest only opened till lv 30. Havent join all FATE

Poor OP

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Originally Posted by coffeeking

Agreed, our own character doesn't even talk just nods to everything, while the offline versions make you connect to the character you play and have a massive storyline.

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you know what's freaking funny? I play SWTOR, and over there everyone on the official forum for the longest time kept complaining about the characters talking. in ARR everyone complains there's not enough voiced cutscenes, in TOR people claim it's the cutscenes that 'ruined' the game.

damned if you do, damned if you don't...

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Originally Posted by Sayura_

Probably because a lot of us are mmo vets that know how to do shit productively.

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Since when are games meant to be productive? You are effectively, sitting in front of a TV/computer, watching pixels move and hitting buttons while you could be doing things productive to your life?
I don't know about you, but I play games to have fun, I see those pixels and take out the pretty pictures in them, the music, the combat, not to fill some requirement.

Alos, the vast majority of people who say they aren't interested in other classes, usually haven't even tried.

Phase 3 I thought I'd hate tanking, tried it near the end, been a Warrior since.

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Originally Posted by AjoraOak

I find it ridiculous people think you need all jobs to be bored, it's not a valid argument in any other mmo and other than having all your basic cross class/job abilities, it's not valid here either.

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Omfg, you're the first highlander to look so similar to mine O.o
Almost scary!

The problem isn't the naysayers or the white knights nor even the elitists. It's the difference between those who play games for the majority of the day and those that can't for various reasons. Square put in enough starting content that someone who plays a certain number of hours in the day can have things to do for months on end. This is fine. It's when you can devote more time than Square accounted for that you get people who complain about lack of content. And, really, that will keep being a problem for them no matter what Square does. Square could add in more level 50 dungeons with unique enemies and unique bosses and these people will blow through them in a day. Then they will just turn around and complain, again, that the new content still wasn't enough. Square can't win against this minority so there's really no point in Square even trying.