MVP Voting

This system will not work cause most people wont vote or just vote poorly cause they don't care. I for one will not vote at all and I am pretty sure the dps votes will be inaccurate. Half the time I don't even pay attention to what is going on.

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Originally Posted by Accolades

This system will not work cause most people wont vote or just vote poorly cause they don't care. I for one will not vote at all and I am pretty sure the dps votes will be inaccurate. Half the time I don't even pay attention to what is going on.

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and you know people won't vote or won't care? how did you find out about this? did you do a poll?

I will vote, hell I will run lowbie dungeons until I get all the rewards. Too bad my server doesn't have too many lowbies though.

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Originally Posted by nekomtl

I am not so sure how this will improve DF group.
I will not vote if I can't vote myself :p

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lol, really? if we could vote for ourselves, nobody would ever be MVP, because it would almost always result in a 4 way tie.

Most people barely make the effort to say "hi" let alone taking to time to think to themselves and select a player they believe was MVP. Sounds like a system that is doomed from the start.

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Originally Posted by Saevel

A multiplayer Prisoner's Dilemma... That would be fun indeed.

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In a game full of trolls... Everyone would get 0 most of the time.

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Originally Posted by Rochetm

In a game full of trolls... Everyone would get 0 most of the time.

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In reality, people tend to be more cooperative than not, but we won't go into the sociology of the game and that type of reward system really has no place in Final Fantasy. It's still an interesting premise, even if it has no bearing on the MVP system.

I still contend that the positives of MVP outweigh any perceived negatives. Even completely unutilized, it's no less than what we have now.

I'm wondering if people'll beg for a vote after every run..

This kind of measure is implemented in order to have a better “community” and to be honest is a very intelligent approach in a hard (if not extreme toxic) environment with some people than is to single minded, had a “I have to show something to the world” attitude (something stu∞#@ to do in a VIDEOGAME) or than project his real live frustration in something than is suppose to be a entertainment

This cannot be abuse,
Its not going to give any “unjustified advantage”
Its anonymous and don’t affect the progress of the game,

Lets see how it work then judge , and don’t see anything bad with this, and hope at least make some people behave in the virtual word and stop affecting the game experience in a negative way.

So you get into a df where everybody stayed silent, everything went like clockwork, nothing exceptional, no one says anything, but it finished within your range of expectancy and everyone went home to their servers without voting. You're concerned that nobody voted? Why?

It's a run of the mill dungeon run...why would there be mvp in the first place? How did you guys somehow started thinking that someone has to be rewarded mvp points in every single run?

Can someone tell me when the Dev say "You will be able to vote at the end of the boss." Does this mean that every boss that is kill in the Dungeon or at the end of the Boss? I really hope the end of the Boss because I can also see abused if it's every boss.

For an example Tanks and Healers.

Tank "I will not Tank if all of you Vote for me."
Everyone "Ok.."

* First Boss down and Tank didn't get vote *

Tank "Why you not vote for me? If next boss you not vote for me, I will just stay here and not go on anymore."
* 2nd Boss down and no one vote for Tank, so Tank just stand there. If there is Vote, he continue.*

Same go for healer, see what I'm getting at here?

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Originally Posted by Hvinire

Just to further clarify if anyone was confused, the MVP vote takes place after the last boss in the dungeon is defeated.

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in case you missed it.

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Originally Posted by Zaiken

Can someone tell me when the Dev say "You will be able to vote at the end of the boss." Does this mean that every boss that is kill in the Dungeon or at the end of the Boss? I really hope the end of the Boss because I can also see abused if it's every boss.

For an example Tanks and Healers.

Tank "I will not Tank if all of you Vote for me."
Everyone "Ok.."

* First Boss down and Tank didn't get vote *

Tank "Why you not vote for me? If next boss you not vote for me, I will just stay here and not go on anymore."
* 2nd Boss down and no one vote for Tank, so Tank just stand there. If there is Vote, he continue.*

Same go for healer, see what I'm getting at here?

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so this is a non issue

hmm in my opinion the game should just pick the MVP based on well everyones skills.

voting just leads to frustration towards each other...although it shouldn't but yeah it's not a perfect world.

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Originally Posted by coffeeking

hmm in my opinion the game should just pick the MVP based on well everyones skills.

voting just leads to frustration towards each other...although it shouldn't but yeah it's not a perfect world.

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There's no way how to measure that. On days with horrible server lags good players will earn no votes at all. That voting system won't change anything neither on the community or on the game. Why implement it in first place? :o

so only 1 person can be mvp? ah good pre made 3 man party we don't ever vote we have 100% chance of one of us being mvp cause you can't vote for yourself and we vote for noone then if they vote (since they don't have to) noone but us can be mvp rinse repeat till either noone goes into dungeons solo or we all have gotten enough points for our items and we never have to do it again.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

so only 1 person can be mvp? ah good pre made 3 man party we don't ever vote we have 100% chance of one of us being mvp cause you can't vote for yourself and we vote for noone then if they vote (since they don't have to) noone but us can be mvp rinse repeat till either noone goes into dungeons solo or we all have gotten enough points for our items and we never have to do it again.

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This should be quoted in the OP. This is startlingly simple exploit of a bad system.

I still want a source for this to be actually the case. if it is the case SE needs to be aware that they have to change it into a 'single MVP' (aka everyone who gets a vote will also get an MVP)

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Originally Posted by Gardes

That's good. One of the community rep posts made it sound like you vote after every boss in a dungeon. If it's only on the lass boss, any threats and whining will be irrelevant. All this will do is make people stay a few mins longer after a DF run to see if they get voted for MVP or not.

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I could be wrong, but I thought they said in the past that votes would be anonymous. You wouldn't even find out how many votes you got till the end of the week when you saw a tally.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

so only 1 person can be mvp? ah good pre made 3 man party we don't ever vote we have 100% chance of one of us being mvp cause you can't vote for yourself and we vote for noone then if they vote (since they don't have to) noone but us can be mvp rinse repeat till either noone goes into dungeons solo or we all have gotten enough points for our items and we never have to do it again.

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How is that an exploit? At best, it's only slightly improving your chances for winning MVP, and 2 of the 3 people still won't be getting rewards. Saying you can do this till you don't need the points for gear anymore is no different than queueing up solo and running it till you don't need any more points. If 3 people want to run dungeons and just not vote for the random person they are running with, big deal, if THAT is their "exploit" for earning rewards faster, they're still going to be running about 3 times the amount of dungeons they would each need to run it if they were solo, as there is no guarantee the 1 person would switch each time.

And ya know what, all you people that are trying to find ways to exploit this, or for whatever reason have just decided you're never voting for anyone to increase your chances of winning, you don't need to worry about it, because you're the type of people that really will never be voted MvP. Just be a nice player in DF, and do your job, stop crying because someone else got icecream for dessert.

you seem to only see it your way and make everyone else seem to sound like victims when that isn't the case, the point is how simple it is to screw the system over it's ok that people can enter with 3 and screw that one person over? the whole reason the system is there is to make people nice make things better but all we see it doing is making things worse, people already afk in dungeons or join in progress and leave if they aren't at the end, and this is suppose to fix that how? how is it suppose to make things better by giving rewards that are based on a majority vote why even vote at all if voting means you could make yourself lose it makes not sense.

it's not about someone else getting something better its about this system does nothing to encourage people from being rude in the end all it does it give more incentive to be rude.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

it's not about someone else getting something better its about this system does nothing to encourage people from being rude in the end all it does it give more incentive to be rude.

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It does though. If 3 people decide they want to run DF groups to screw that 1 person out of a vote, I doubt they'll be helpful in the dungeon, and most likely won't get a vote from that one person.

This is a system designed around 4 random people. I can guarantee you, I will be getting MvP more than any of those 3 people by queuing up alone, and being a helpful and good tank for the 3 random people that join. I won't rage when we wipe, I'll explain boss strategies for first timers, and be an over-all pleasant person.

By choosing to do something like not vote JUST to increase your chances, you're just proving that you're the kind of person that doesn't deserve to be called MvP, even if it was a title and nothing else.

The key point is that you cannot quantify good play beyond success, and you cannot use a program to really detect where the failure was.

Things are lost in the heat of battle. First boss of AK is easy, but I prefer DPS that let the rock adds get to me before they kill them, but some think it's cute to stun it {Over There} and kill it before it gets to me. Later in the fight when you're dealing with big red, rock adds take just a second longer to pick up if i couldn't drop the pile of rubble where I wanted.

(Now I'm fond of just tanking the rock adds too, and not killing them, but this is an example.)

Did the Paladin really fail at stunning Ifrit or has someone in the alliance got their stun in their rotation? You can check the log to see, but we all know how painful these logs are to navigate.

MVP has good intentions but it's an awful and exploitable system, especially this "no vote" notion.

Want more tanks to queue for randoms? Give them a reward for it, not necessarily tomes. Same for healers. DPS aren't as left out in the cold as they try to imply. Anyone can roll a tank and participate. If enough people do then dps becomes the prized role (lol, probably not).

honestly i hope you're right cause i do wanna see this a success i just don't see it working out, but i guess we will see and pray for the best.

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Originally Posted by Steeled

The key point is that you cannot quantify good play beyond success, and you cannot use a program to really detect where the failure was.

Things are lost in the heat of battle. First boss of AK is easy, but I prefer DPS that let the rock adds get to me before they kill them, but some think it's cute to stun it {Over There} and kill it before it gets to me. Later in the fight when you're dealing with big red, rock adds take just a second longer to pick up if i couldn't drop the pile of rubble where I wanted.

(Now I'm fond of just tanking the rock adds too, and not killing them, but this is an example.)

Did the Paladin really fail at stunning Ifrit or has someone in the alliance got their stun in their rotation? You can check the log to see, but we all know how painful these logs are to navigate.

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Well, you should be picking up the rock adds on the first boss in AK regardless of what your DPS are doing (skip to 11 min of the video in my sig to watch how I do it), and if someone else is using a stun on Ifrit, you have ample time to call that out, and tell them to stop. If they don't you can pretty much guarantee a wipe, if they do, it will be very apparent it wasn't the PLD's fault.

Let me explain..

Rock add pops, I lob it, and bring it behind the pole, usually. Sometimes some tard wants to stun it and try to kill it right there. There's really nothing I can do about that. I can't help them dps, that solves no problem. I can't get it to me because it's stunned and they're silly. I provoke and lob, and it starts to head towards me and dies.

But see, you highlighted the problem with trying to quantify good play. I'm doing my job, i'm picking up the add and bringing it where I want it, a dps screws that up, and even though we're both gladiators (so I'm sure you've run into this), you declare that it's my responsibility to cover their mistake. Suppose that the second spawn of that same add comes in, while big red is up, does his red line attack and gibs the healer. Who does the group auto-blame? Me, even though the problem is because a dps lacks sense.

Again, this is just examples, I realize how trivial the fight is.

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Originally Posted by Steeled

Let me explain..

Rock add pops, I lob it, and bring it behind the pole, usually. Sometimes some tard wants to stun it and try to kill it right there. There's really nothing I can do about that.

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Watch this: (link is set to start at 12 min) http://youtu.be/gGJPq1qmtrk?t=12m

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Originally Posted by InVizO

if ur trying to become MVP as a DPS good luck lol. Never will happen.

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Why? I do not see why a DPS can not get that. A good DPS does ALOT for the party more than just dealing damage. A good DPS controls the battle and makes it far easier for everyone else.

Dude, I don't need a tutorial on the fight. I used rather outdated (because most groups way outgear AK now) examples to try to illustrate a flaw.

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Originally Posted by Steeled

Dude, I don't need a tutorial on the fight. I used rather outdated (because most groups way outgear AK now) examples to try to illustrate a flaw.

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But it's not a flaw, if you are being an AWESOME tank, it doesn't matter what your DPS is doing, you'll cover for their mistakes, and thus, likely increase your chances of being MVP. People know when they mess up, they might deny it, or play stupid, but they do. If the DPS goes the whole run and goes, huh, I usually pull aggro of tanks, this one held it, he is pretty good.

On the other hand, if you just ignore it, and say something like "if you dont want aggro watch your threat noob" then the chances of you getting MVP are less. It's a system based on the OPINION of the player, you COULD be a terrible player and still get MvP simply by being extremely charismatic and making the entire party like you.

And I still think you should watch that video, considering you think there is nothing you can do about the adds other than throwing your shield once.

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Originally Posted by Naberrie

I could be wrong, but I thought they said in the past that votes would be anonymous. You wouldn't even find out how many votes you got till the end of the week when you saw a tally.

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And? I never said anything about waiting to see who voted you. I said people would wait to see if they get voted or not. It's like running wp and running to the portal as soon as boss is dead without opening chest and rolling on the loot because you dont care.

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Originally Posted by Sephirah

And I still think you should watch that video, considering you think there is nothing you can do about the adds other than throwing your shield once.

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I'm done arguing. The point of DF is not to carry retarded people but assist people with learning if they need it.

However, that's not at all what I said, but the most effective thing to do is lob the add and let it come to you. If you are killing the adds, it makes no difference to the dps whether they're dpsing the boss for 2 seconds while the add moves.

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Originally Posted by Steeled

I'm done arguing. The point of DF is not to carry retarded people but assist people with learning if they need it.

However, that's not at all what I said, but the most effective thing to do is lob the add and let it come to you. If you are killing the adds, it makes no difference to the dps whether they're dpsing the boss for 2 seconds while the add moves.

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And that's your choice, you can continue to think any dps that pull off you are "retarded"(even if they are) and I'll be making sure I'm holding aggro despite their learning disability, and enjoy my MvP rewards by being a better tank.

The point of the DF isn't to assist people in learning, it's there to assist people get into dungeons, their skill is irrelevant. And this system is designed to promote good play between strangers, regardless of their skill level.

And just assuming you haven't watched the video, the most effective way to pick up those rock adds is to use circle of scrorn/flash and attack them. You don't have to stand in 1 spot the entire fight.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

so only 1 person can be mvp? ah good pre made 3 man party we don't ever vote we have 100% chance of one of us being mvp cause you can't vote for yourself and we vote for noone then if they vote (since they don't have to) noone but us can be mvp

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There's a few scenarios to this:

The three of you tells the random that you three are together and that he will not get any votes from you three
Result? Most likely no vote from the random at the end.

The three of you say nothing and the random thinks the party is so-so, and none of you did anything special to impress him
Result? Most likely no vote from the random since he'd rather just leg it to the portal asap

The three of you say nothing and the random thinks that one of you did really good and impressed him
Result? He votes for one of you and...that person earned it? If the three of you somehow managed to think that you have successfully abused the system this way...lol.

The last boss drops an item that the random wants and the 3 of you threatens to roll on it if the random doesnt vote (supposing that the vote result is displayed before you leave the instance
If the random cannot need it, he should have come to the dungeon as a class that can need roll on it. If the random can need it but one of you three can also need it, he now has to decide whether to trust the unsavory bunch will keep their word or leave it to his luck on roll and fight with his need roll against your need roll. He can also lie about voting, you three can lie on the roll promise, in the end, nobody actually deserved the mvp.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

rinse repeat till either noone goes into dungeons solo or we all have gotten enough points for our items and we never have to do it again.

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People wont go to the dungeons just for the mvp coins. I mean, what are we going to the dungeons right now for? Tomes.

Unbelievable. The attitudes in these posts are like a hacker crying about a weakness in a bank's digital security sytem and then hacking it, saying that you want to show where the flaw is...and then run with the money anyway.

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Originally Posted by ShinigamiB06

bottom line, voting for someone always decreases my chances of winning. not voting for someone always increases my odds

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So, you're saying, that nobody will vote because it'll hurt their chances, so nobody will get mvp. You know what? Good.

Nobody votes, nobody wins. But now there will be people who will not act in a manner that will hurt their chances of getting mvp even further. I'd say that's something accomplished.

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And just assuming you haven't watched the video, the most effective way to pick up those rock adds is to use circle of scrorn/flash and attack them. You don't have to stand in 1 spot the entire fight.

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And that's what I do for the second type, and any respawns. Imo, running to the first one, scorning and flashing encourages people to kill the add before I get it where I like to tank the boss. The second add starts near where I like to tank the boss so it's a non issue.

By killing it where I like to tank the boss it makes respawn pickup easier....if I was still bothering to kill the adds lol.

No offense... but damn you guys are assholes. I'm not sure if any of you realized this.... but I think... and i'm going out on a limb here... but I just 'think' that they created this system with the japanese playerbase in mind, knowing they have more of a 'team based' mentality.... So instead of everyone thinking, 'Oh, i'll try to stand out by being helpful and playing good to get mvp, and i'll vote for who else does the same if they play good and have a good personality to me', most of you are thinking up every single thing you can that's negative under the sun and completely self serving... I mean... I get it... I really do... but god damn guys. I want you all to read over your own posts and look at how you're honestly being dicks about this.

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Originally Posted by Ronzeru

No offense... but damn you guys are assholes. I'm not sure if any of you realized this.... but I think... and i'm going out on a limb here... but I just 'think' that they created this system with the japanese playerbase in mind, knowing they have more of a 'team based' mentality.... So instead of everyone thinking, 'Oh, i'll try to stand out by being helpful and playing good to get mvp, and i'll vote for who else does the same if they play good and have a good personality to me', most of you are thinking up every single thing you can that's negative under the sun and completely self serving... I mean... I get it... I really do... but god damn guys. I want you all to read over your own posts and look at how you're honestly being dicks about this.

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THIIIIIIIISSSSSSSSSSSSS :D

Well, I don't know if I'll ever get voted "MIP" or not. I'm the type of person that joins a DF group, says "hi" and proceeds to do my job. I'll normally answer questions or offer strategies for boss fights for people that are new, but I don't go out of my way to force friendly banter on people or anything like that. It almost sounds like the system is making you go out of your way to be social and friendly just so you can get that "Like" so you can get your shinies.

Most likely my votes will go towards the people who look like they're performing their role the best.

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Originally Posted by Orophin

Most likely my votes will go towards the people who look like they're performing their role the best.

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It's your call.

Basically, it's a system that allows the community to reward people who behave the way they feel is most apropriate in DF, and thus set "general models" to what kind of people FFXIV's players like to play with.
As to *what* it is that the community as a whole like the most, we will know when we see the result of MIP.

Its a good idea in the intent of it. MMOs are missing repercussions/rewards for actions by players to give them incentive to be better(not just skill but attitude). But I don't think this mvp system will have enough reward or be used correctly often enough to have any real impact. The vote kick system if not too limited will have more of an impact(still not enough)

Sitting in jueno for 6 hours because you either were a bad player or had a bad attitude now that was incentive to be better. Sitting for months in town crafting because no decent LS will take you, that's incentive. Getting that item that .01 percent of the server have, that's incentive.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

so only 1 person can be mvp? ah good pre made 3 man party we don't ever vote we have 100% chance of one of us being mvp cause you can't vote for yourself and we vote for noone then if they vote (since they don't have to) noone but us can be mvp rinse repeat till either noone goes into dungeons solo or we all have gotten enough points for our items and we never have to do it again.

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Your idea won't do much for you anyway:

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The MIP feature can only be used when you are playing solo. This is both for the voter and the person that is being voted for.

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So you and your three friends won't have the option to vote, the other two randoms can vote on only the other. So in essence your 3 will never get an MIP vote, and the other two will tie making them each get a vote, or no one get MIP from that run.

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Originally Posted by DragonFlyy

So you and your three friends won't have the option to vote, the other two randoms can vote on only the other. So in essence your 3 will never get an MIP vote, and the other two will tie making them each get a vote, or no one get MIP from that run.

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The other one won't be able to vote for anyone at all. Four-man parties, not five.