Make FFXIV more like FFXI and less like WoW

I played UO for about 3years, WOW for 7 years,

So, to me, WOW is better than UO?no......

The more I played WOW ,the more I hate it,
Quit WOW because I got tired of the boring raids. got tired of the community
I felt I was working on some boring things,with callous people, not playing a game, not having an adventure.
not meeting new friends & doing some interesting/stupid things together.
the only thing I can do in game is go to dungeon, grind for the token,upgrade my gears & stand in the town.
& repeat these boring things when new expension come out.
just a waste of time

UO was like an adventure! so much wonderful memories,
I've stopped playing it, but I still love it
there are some magic in those games, that WOW is lacking

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Originally Posted by Amberion

As for FF games i would recommend... Well, I haven't particularly liked any of the single player once after 9. For me, the whole voice acting and not being able to change my characters name have made the game lose some immersion. ;)

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Have to agree with you there. That was one of the things I'd always enjoy from those other games. The player was essentially the character, regardless of the name you gave. Whereas the newer games makes the player not the character him/her/itself, but rather a facilitator to the overall story. You aren't part of the story, you're merely there for the ride.

Regarding your earlier comment about Doom and current FPS games, I'd play and have more fun with Doom. Actually, I still do from time to time. If I felt like experiencing an interactive FPS movie (linear play and pretty graphics), I'll hit up a CoD or BF game. If I want to play an actual FPS game (minor puzzle solving, secrets galore, badass music, fun and unique enemies, etc), I'll hit up Doom.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

Attitudes like that lead to a growing divide between gaming communities. We're all 'real' gamers. I don't think I can continue a discussion beyond that point if you're elevating one group above others so blatantly.

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You are perfectly knowing what I am referring to. The gaming mechanics like Duty Finder (LFG and LFR) gradually destroying the gaming community from the root. Do we really need Duty Finder? No, we do not. It is a tool created for casual playing, those who are not willing to invest time into mmorpg and to live into a virtual gaming community.

You can not ignore that fact that Blizzard and WoW has created a generation of gamers that want everything to be hand to them on a silver plate. This post WoW generation of gamers create very unpleasnt gaming experience for others. Self-proclaim to be a casual gamer with actual hardcore gaming mindset.

I liked FFXI for what it was at the time.

I would NOT, however, like to see very many of its systems implemented into FFXIV, simply because I don't think they could make the majority of them work for the current demographic that is targeted (example: Casual/Semi Hardcore).
That isn't to say I wouldn't like seeing "some" of the stuff that worked well in FFXI making it's way to FFXIV eventually.

As for WoW... I'd rather MMO developers actually attempt to steer away from that and finally make something original and fresh while creating system that work.

Too many MMOs strive for WoW's "perfection" as far as money making potential goes, but they completely fall flat in the delivery because: WoW already built that hill and occupies that slot at the top of the hill! Go make your own damn hill already and try something different!

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Originally Posted by vasdeferens

1. Incorporate some kind of 4 and/or 8-person party grind option similar to those found in FFXI as an alternative to FATE and dungeon-grinding

This I would like to see. Only partying for dungeons sucks. Give me some overland quests one needs parties for and not just FATEs. I mean, isn't that what FF is all about? A group of adventurers questing?

4. Make gear with lasting power. Adding useful set bonuses like increased radius on Flash or increased duration on Regen when you're wearing full artifact gear would be awesome

I am still wondering what we didn't get some special stat boots with each crystal we got. Would be neat, and fit. a +5 to STR perm etc. One for each. But nope. Wasted. I haven't gotten my full Artefact stuff yet as only level 47.

5. FFXIV needs a sense of community. It was a huge letdown to obtain all five pieces of artifact gear by myself over the course of 2 five-minute quests

Heh ah, I remember those 3 months getting raids and groups together in EQ2 for my Beastlord Epic. That made it so much more worth it. I am getting tired being solo.

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I do understand this game is relatively new. But they had alot out there to draw from. Bad enough there are minimal amount of quests. Ugh. But I will be around for a while.

To elaborate on my views on an individual basis, and illustrate why I think FFXI is a bad example for anything more than the broadest of inspirations, let me breakdown.

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Originally Posted by Positron

Oh god, please no. At least, not in their forms. Don't get me wrong, I loved Limbus and Salvage (Dynamis and Nyzul? ...not so much), but the combination of sheer amount of time spent per run, with, most critically, the fact that with inter-run dependencies, only the people whose schedules allowed them to make it to EVERY SINGLE RUN ever had a significantly high chance of getting anything decent... I'd rather not see that in this game.

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Additionally, Dynamis, Salvage, and Limbus were simply raids. We have raid content, and will continue to have more raid content. The system we currently have, with multiple dungeons and raids sharing similar or the same currency base to work towards unified goals, works fine. It just needs more variety. This will come with time on its own. We don't need FFXI's specific style of raiding to duplicate this.

Sky/Sea: Yes and no.

Yes to open world endgame content zone where a feel of wonder and danger are appropriately mixed.
No to making a gated elitism playground (Sea) or a spawn-camping nightmare (Sky) in order to enjoy any of the content that should be readily available to players. That means removing bottlenecks that get compounded on by competition..


HNM: Odin and Behemoth already exist. This will be our template for HNMs for the foreseeable future. What I would like to see is that we go a different direction - actually more towards Guild War's encounters that hold multiple objectives to split the zerg rush down a bit and have players work together without forcing people to compete for participation. The forcing to compete for participation was the worst thing FFXI perpetuated. If something is that popular, it should accommodate it's popularity somehow, rather than make it horribly cutthroat on who actually gets to play that particular part of the game.

Alternatively, HNM Leves and guildhests would be very intriguing as well, if people are wanting a more reserved experience. Point is, there are other, better implimented both open world and closed/instanced examples to large world bosses to simply pull from FFXI's HNM systems.

2hr: No point. This was part of the 'downtime' mechanics that weren't necessarily good to have around. Even the 15 minute timer was griped upon heavily for many skills.The 2hr system itself perpetuated a problem that, to this day, still persists in FFXI. Instead, I'd like them to revamp the limit break system - creating individual limit breaks that each consume only one 'bar' of limit to create a unique, powerful effect based on the Job using it. More on this later, actually.

RSE: Why? If you're trying to pull more uniqueness to the races, why not something related like quests related to races digging into their lore and backgrounds. As far as Race Specific Gear, we walked into the world with RSE, I can see more vanity sets show up with vanity pieces, but you just namedrop this without any real reason or purpose for it. So I must post the question why.

Skillchains: Skillchains died in usefulness due to the way DPS worked. In order for Skillchains to work, they would have to be on the level of Limit Breaks in terms of usefullness.

This is where I pick up on the 2hr subject. Instead of one player using all 3 bars of the limit break - make it so that each bar could only be used by one player, and for the full effect, you'd need multiple party members using their Limit breaks together, in a sort of combined skill effect Ala Chrono Trigger. And that the overall effect of the limit break depended on the Role combination (and possibly order) of the Limit Chain activated.

This would function far more effectively than what the Skillchain system did, (which fell out of favor unless you were self-skillchaining). Additionally, adding more context and player sensitive objectives that could visually assist in filling the limit bar would be great (an indicator to show what contribute to the limit bar also would help a lot in encouraging these actions). But FFXI's Skillchain/Magic Burst system ver-baitum? No, that would not work well here - as we have no elemental system to exploit, and should not have one to begin with based off of existing systems, and a static team system will simply mean that it is exploited in the most efficient manor.

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Originally Posted by vasdeferens

4. Make gear with lasting power. Adding useful set bonuses like increased radius on Flash or increased duration on Regen when you're wearing full artifact gear would be awesome

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This. We need cooler gear/materia. Vitality + X is not interesting and gets old after a while. I want something more tangible, more unique. Frostbite, a sword from Toto dungeon, doesn't even have % chance to freeze on-hit...come on now SE.

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Originally Posted by Divinemight

You are perfectly knowing what I am referring to. The gaming mechanics like Duty Finder (LFG and LFR) gradually destroying the gaming community from the root. Do we really need Duty Finder? No, we do not. It is a tool created for casual playing, those who are not willing to invest time into mmorpg and to live into a virtual gaming community.

You can not ignore that fact that Blizzard and WoW has created a generation of gamers that want everything to be hand to them on a silver plate. This post WoW generation of gamers create very unpleasnt gaming experience for others. Self-proclaim to be a casual gamer with actual hardcore gaming mindset.

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If you think Blizzard and WoW created that generation of gamers, you're sorely mistaken and ignorant of the larger picture. You neglect to acknowledge the fact that the gaming community has exploded in population in the last fifteen years, and MMOs are not the sole culprit to this. Matchmaking existed in Halo, and other FPS and grouped multiplayer games as well.

You paint a very dangerously broad brush about the varying and complex issues about entitlement and declining maturity in the gaming community. And that you try to pin anyone who grew up previously to that generation as 'true gamers' it's quite frankly appalling to me because I feel that this accusatory attitude you take with it means you wash your hands of your contributions to the problem as well. This is our community, and if you wish to speak for the community then we also need to take responsibility of the community. This means assuming a conduct that's productive to the community. This looking down thing is not helping the problem you're citing. The fact that you're supposed to not wash your hands of this due to disliking features such as the duty finder, and try to actively participate in making such encounters as pleasant as possible is in fact contributing to it.

What Square Enix could do to help is offer more easily accessible social tools to enable players to engage one another better, not remove tools that make the game more accessible. What we can do is engage the community in a positive manner and get people out of their social shells. Our self-defensive reflexes from being part of the older generation of games keep wanting us to push away from something we should have been welcoming guiding towards for years. We perpetuate this problem as well, and rather than stare at it bitterly, we need to be proactive in helping turn it around.

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Originally Posted by InVizO

Lol I love this thread. You can really see that FFXIV is a conglomerate of old veterans and a ton of noobs to MMORPGs in general. The hardcore players in this thread are clearly shown supporting an FFXI based game

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This is generally what I've seen from XI players. They where stuck in a world very very separated from the rest of the MMO world, then come demanding this game be like XI which in all actuality is what 1.0 was; which failed miserably. My biggest worry is that SE will listen to them.

2.0 is a HUGE improvement - but I'm concerned about the quality of life problems (bad netcode, lack of transparency from SE, gil spammers/hackers, etc). I've cancelled my sub for now. Will come around in a few months and see if things have been cleaned up.

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Originally Posted by ufufu

This again? FFXI sucked, let's move past it.

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Clearly you never played, you've only heard about the horror stories from people who have.

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Originally Posted by vasdeferens

-snip-

Now think of those wonderfully humongous zones with the teleport capabilities FFXIV has available and you've got a winning combination

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FFXI's zones are dull in comparison to FFXIV's zones. Ronfarue, Saruta, etc. Were all incredible looking back in 03'. But go back to them. Look now. They're dull. They don't have much in the terms of life to them, and look a lot like FFXIV's 1.0 version zones if you made them smaller and took out the copy-pasta. Pretty, but quite empty.

Also, if you gave FFXI's players FFXIV's run-speed, you'd burn through those zones rather fast too. Ease of transport does not make theses zones less vibrant or amazing - your impatience does. Take the time an LOOK. FFXI forced you to look because it took forever to get anywhere of note. FFXIV is full of places of note and it's difficult to take it all in unless you stop yourself to just see it.

I actually want to do a video series where it takes the time to just show off these places to people, because we walk past it all so easily.

Go on, talk a walk; soak it in. The zones are so much more than what you give them credit for. Only thing I'll agree with you is the reduced sense of danger in them. And honestly, that's fine by me, if you run in the wrong direction, you still can get yourself killed.

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Originally Posted by Preypacer

Yoshi-P disagrees with you. His assessment of why XIV 1.0 did so poorly (in large part) is because one of Tanaka and co's main goals was to make XIV as unlike XI as possible and ended up with "not much of anything".

They obsessively tried to steer XIV away from XI, and it blew up in their face.

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You're paraphrasing incorrectly. What Yoshi was citing was that FFXI focused on being a good game for its timeframe and age, it played off of the refrences of games recently before it and did so in a Final Fantasy Style.

FFXIV used FFXI as pretty much its ONLY Groundwork, and pushed itself too far to be unique from FFXI without any outside inspiration to fill the gap. What was left was a game with more flaws than FFXI had and little in terms of redeeming value, because 'we could just fix it later! We're Final Fantasy!' was the hubris at the time.

It had as much to do with being ignorant of the world around them as it was pushing so far as way from FFXI that it lost what it meant to be a Final Fantasy game.

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Originally Posted by Althea

This is generally what I've seen from XI players. They where stuck in a world very very separated from the rest of the MMO world, then come demanding this game be like XI which in all actuality is what 1.0 was; which failed miserably. My biggest worry is that SE will listen to them.

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No, it was expressly their mission that ffxiv (1.0) be a different game than xi. SE can only gain from learning what made xi special.

Problem is if I wanted FFxi then would rather they just have improved the graphics. For this I would rather have something new and unique.

Edit: took out the royal we lol

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

FFXI's zones are dull in comparison to FFXIV's zones. Ronfarue, Saruta, etc. Were all incredible looking back in 03'. But go back to them. Look now. They're dull. They don't have much in the terms of life to them, and look a lot like FFXIV's 1.0 version zones if you made them smaller and took out the copy-pasta. Pretty, but quite empty.

Go on, talk a walk soak it in. The zones are so much more than what you give them credit for. Only thing I'll agree with you is the reduced sense of danger in them. And honestly, that's fine by me, if you run in the wrong direction, you still can get yourself killed.

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Actually I have done just this and find just about every ffxi zone to have more to them than any 1 of ffxiv's.

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Originally Posted by Redemption

Actually I have done just this and find just about every ffxi zone to have more to them than any 1 of ffxiv's.

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Then we have an impasse of opinion, one I'll gladly engage you on further.

I've found that the only difference between FFXI zones and FFXIV zones, aside from the obvious graphical differences is more open read (dead) space on behalf of FFXI zones, and that varied from zone to zone. You can compare East Sarutabaruta directly to Central Shroud alone and there's no comparison, Shroud has so much MORE there. Honestly, we can start enumerating notable locations based off of zone if you like.

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Originally Posted by Preypacer

Yoshi-P disagrees with you. His assessment of why XIV 1.0 did so poorly (in large part) is because one of Tanaka and co's main goals was to make XIV as unlike XI as possible and ended up with "not much of anything".

They obsessively tried to steer XIV away from XI, and it blew up in their face.

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Hmm. This it's kind of ironic in my head, because XI players are being reminiscent of mob grinding parties - and I know that was a HUGE deterrent of 1.0. That, and the extreeemely slow combat system.

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Originally Posted by Preypacer

I love how you undermine your own arguments like that. Do you even realize you're doing that?

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When you're misconstruing my argument, yes. But that's warping someone else words, something you're trying to accuse me of while at the same time doing yourself.

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You're seriously comparing 2003 graphics to 2013 graphics as some kind of argument. You said it yourself.. in 2003 (and even after), XI's graphics looked fantastic. Shall we return to this topic and see what you feel about Thanalan and La Noscea compared to current graphics of 2024?

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I'm comparing zone design in concept, accounting for the graphical differences. That's why I acknowledged that we ooed and awed over much less, yet become hypercritical of something that, in actuality, has accomplished much more.

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And you're ignoring the context of my answer. I know what Yoshi-P said and I understand why he said it (that's why I said "in large part").

My response was to someone stating that XIV tried to be too much like FFXI and that's why it failed. That is factually incorrect. They were not trying to emulate XI. They were trying to move away from it.

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You ignored the premise of my counter argument that I said right at the beginning, you're paraphrasing him incorrectly - ignoring the entire context of HIS statement to favor your argument.

He wasn't talking about moving too far away from FFXI as an independent entity as the source of his problem. He said we moved too far away from what FFXI was in the context of the genre, and he illustrated what FFXI was at its core - a game that reflected an age of MMOs within the scope of Final Fantasy.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

Then we have an impasse of opinion, one I'll gladly engage you on further.

I've found that the only difference between FFXI zones and FFXIV zones, aside from the obvious graphical differences is more open read (dead) space on behalf of FFXI zones, and that varied from zone to zone. You can compare East Sarutabaruta directly to Central Shroud alone and there's no comparison, Shroud has so much MORE there. Honestly, we can start enumerating notable locations based off of zone if you like.

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Ok, looking at Central shroud the only 2 locations I can think of with any real meaning are the manor and tam-tara. Everything else there so far as I could tell was filler (comparable to your dead space). There are more points on the map, they just are all empty soul-less trash. For example the mirror planks and the sanguine perch. Who even knows these exist? I found more character in the pond with the 2 special malboro in it than most of the named locations on the map. Now east saruta, just about every location in that zone is tied into an understanding of the world with the most notable points being the haurtoto ruins (both inner and outer) as towers giving a sense that the world is connected (this dungeon lies beneath the ground you stand on) which is something I didn't get from any dungeon in ffxiv despite them actually being located in the zones. The quests feel far more involved in the zone and exploring it as well. Placement of monsters was also better tuned to a worldly feel and not the floating blobs they are here (ex: undead spawning at night) with actual nms (rare monsters rather than timed events). It all made a very tied together experience where ffxiv is more like a slide show, pretty colors and no substance... its like eating a pound of cardboard.

Most people fail to understand that FF11 was built on a shoestring budget of 16mil.
It's LONG since broken even (2002) - before it was even released in the US.
So it's pretty much just the overhead of the servers and whatever skeleton crew they have still putting out content for the game. Of course they're going to keep 11 alive until the drain on their pockets is greater than what they can rake in from 11 players.

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/squ.../1100-2901481/

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Originally Posted by Leknaat

Most people fail to understand that FF11 was built on a shoestring budget of 16mil.
It's LONG since broken even (2002).
So it's pretty much just the overhead of the servers and whatever skeleton crew they have still putting out content for the game. Of course they're going to keep 11 alive until the drain on their pockets is greater than what they can rake in from 11 players.

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Well since they developed this game twice, I guess that can't be true for FF14!

Anyhow, it was crazy to even try to redevelop the game with the same name, as opposed to cutting and running from the 1.0 disaster. But they made it work in my opinion. And I think they made it work by copying WoW, as they've freely admitted. I don't see why some of the 11 veterans don't want to admit that. WoW at its peak perfectly balanced hardcore and casual.

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Originally Posted by Dliver

Well since they developed this game twice, I guess that can't be true for FF14!

Anyhow, it was crazy to even try to redevelop the game with the same name, as opposed to cutting and running from the 1.0 disaster. But they made it work in my opinion. And I think they made it work by copying WoW, as they've freely admitted. I don't see why some of the 11 veterans don't want to admit that. WoW at its peak perfectly balanced hardcore and casual.

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WoW did not perfectly anything, what it does is make a middle ground where the majority are comfortable but fails to completely satisfy either demographic.

FFXI budget or not was still one of the most successful MMO out, FFXI had far more a life and soul of its own than ffxiv currently has, each zone was always full of life, wether it be questing, partys, missions, fishing, logging etc. Was ALWAYS something to do on ffxi, ffxiv what do you have? an easy fate grind to 50 and 2-3 dungeons to spam til u max darklight or myth gear, side being ur relic which is just a small extra to do.

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Originally Posted by ruzoko

FFXI budget or not was still one of the most successful MMO out, FFXI had far more a life and soul of its own than ffxiv currently has, each zone was always full of life, wether it be questing, partys, missions, fishing, logging etc. Was ALWAYS something to do on ffxi, ffxiv what do you have? an easy fate grind to 50 and 2-3 dungeons to spam til u max darklight or myth gear, side being ur relic which is just a small extra to do.

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But I suspect 11 didn't start with a full end-game either?

As soon as we have PvP and casual raids the game will be a lot more lively.

Will try and respond to a couple of these:

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Originally Posted by vasdeferens

4. Make gear with lasting power. Adding useful set bonuses like increased radius on Flash or increased duration on Regen when you're wearing full artifact gear

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I believe this is coming at some point. Yoshi-P mentioned that they deliberately kept gear stats simple because they wanted the game to be as balanced as possible at launch. However in the future you can expect more interesting effects from your weapons and gear.

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Originally Posted by vasdeferens

2hr abilities or something similar

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2hrs were a bad idea in XI and would be here.

The big problem XI had with these abilties (particularly with fights considered the highest difficulty) is that they had to be designed with the assumption that every player will use them, which placed an unnecessary constraint on what they could do with encounter mechanics without having players just bypass them through overpowered abilities.

ahh but I don't know about you, but spamming the same dungeons for gear gets so boring, I agree there is time for ffxiv to improve but id rather it not take the same route WoW and FFXI have currently tread seeing it has lead both games to a place many players do not like

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Originally Posted by ruzoko

ahh but I don't know about you, but spamming the same dungeons for gear gets so boring, I agree there is time for ffxiv to improve but id rather it not take the same route WoW and FFXI have currently tread seeing it has lead both games to a place many players do not like

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Exactly.

I think there needs to be a distinction between WoW at its height - WoTLK - and WoW in the time of Pandaland and free epics and free gold and a dead world, though.

We get PvP up and offer both hard-core and random matchmaking. Then we get casual raids alongside the hardcore. And this game's casual content is a lot like the heroic dungeons of old, in my opinion. It seems like a good balance, to me anyway. But yeah, the content isn't there yet.

id prefer they take bits (if they were set to do it a wow/ffxi game) of each game at their prime find out what it was in each that players loved so much and somehow incorporate it into ffxiv not saying a copy/paste but in a way it works for 14

This is a duplicated thread that got deleted some time ago. Why post this shit again OP?
How long did it take FFXI to get Sky, Sea, Dynamis, Limbus etc? It took years okay. FFXI was absolute shit before Rise of The Zilart expansion.

Now compare FFXIV:ARR launch with FFXI launch. FFXIV:ARR beats it by far in terms of content, accessibility, and replay.

Bring back BCNM, KSNM, ENM, ZNM, ISNM, etc? You can't bring back things that is not in this game in the first place.

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Originally Posted by ruzoko

ahh but I don't know about you, but spamming the same dungeons for gear gets so boring, I agree there is time for ffxiv to improve but id rather it not take the same route WoW and FFXI have currently tread seeing it has lead both games to a place many players do not like

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My problem with WoW is they're adding an exp bonus potion to their cash shops in Asia. How long before more pay to win trappings show up in their cash shops in their US market.

There's nothing to say you 'have' to spam dungeons. I only go when my FC drags me along.

I'm not in a rush for mytho gear. It's the same ilevel as Coil gear and pretty much the same stats except maybe accuracy/parry might be flipped statwise etc etc.

Crystal Tower is supposed to gear people for Coil. Coil reduces the dependance on the 300 mytho cap per week... yeah no rush that I can see since I'm also expecting a drop in the cost of the materials needed to craft the ilevel 70 gear in 2.1 as well.

At the earliest Coil/Mytho gear becomes obsolete like 6 months down the line from now - whenever 2.2 rolls around. That's plenty of time to take it easy D:

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Originally Posted by Andrien

This is a duplicated thread that got deleted some time ago. Why post this shit again OP?
How long did it take FFXI to get Sky, Sea, Dynamis, Limbus etc? It took years okay. FFXI was absolute shit before Rise of The Zilart expansion.
Compare FFXIV:ARR launch with FFXI launch. FFXIV:ARR beats it by far in terms of content, accessibility, and replay.

Bring back BCNM, KSNM, ENM, ZNM, ISNM, etc? You can't bring back things that is not in this game in the first place.

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again ur looking at it through a narrow view, never did I say bring those back and again the launch of ffxiv ARR is a 2nd re-launch they learned from previous mistakes

I read some of this thread, but i'm switch it up with this thread. http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...rom-1.0/page29

Support the good things we lost in 1.0 and hopefully a dev with take this thread into consideration and remember us 1.0 veterans who stuck in for so long!

I'm just curious with all the people complaining about XIV and how it NEEDS to be more like XI, why aren't you just playing XI? It's still available to play and they still put out content regularly. You know what I remember about XI. I remember how you had to grind everything right out of the gate from lvl 1-50 (yes I played XI before the NA release with Rise of Zilart). I remember how difficult it was to create a pt as a DD, sometimes sitting around for weeks in Jeuno and even after rolling a tank it wasn't much of an improvement. I realize the FFXIV isn't for everyone, and I certainly agree that there needs to be more content, difficulty, and a sense of community, but I don't want to see another FFXI.

I am not sure how I feel, I still have FFXI account and recently a FFXIV (I restarted, started when it was first released). In one month, yes 1 month. I finished story line, finished most all quest in game, made relic, and have most philosophy tone gear, starting to work on mythic tome gear and coil. That is it, in one month I am at the point where I am "End Game" which is limited by entry timers(coil) and the 300(myth) point cap. I am not even a hard core player. I work M-F about 50 hours a week, and have 3 busy teenage kids I have to run all over. Play a couple hours a night before bed after dinner, and a few hours on the weekend if nothing else to do. I loved the fast pace the game moved at following the story line, and all the quest making it interesting. Also in that month I leveled the support jobs for my job abilities.

Now I just have no desire to log in; Coil group on weekend, and after weekly point reset do some speed runs for 300 myth tomes. That is all I have to look forward to, beside getting online and randomly chatting. Feeling a little disappointed I guess. FFXI has update soon but I am sure it will amount to a few kills of a couple new bosses and possibly updating a relic or 2, then what? I really do not feel like playing both games, but neither game seems to offer a full plate which means playing both as SE alternates updates, which I am sure they do purposely. Or finding a new late night hobby before bed to do.

@ Gogatsu390
don't reply with this please ^ seen too much of this and read through the thread before you post things, you clearly only read the last few posts and decided to jot that down

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Originally Posted by ruzoko

@ Gogatsu390
don't reply with this please ^ seen too much of this and read through the thread before you post things, you clearly only read the last few posts and decided to jot that down

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I did read through the thread. I wasn't aware that I'm not allowed to post my opinions on the public forums.

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Originally Posted by Gogatsu390

I did read through the thread. I wasn't aware that I'm not allowed to post my opinions on the public forums.

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really doesn't seem so with how the last posts were about ffxiv going its own direction using whats best of the 2

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Originally Posted by Gogatsu390

I'm just curious with all the people complaining about XIV and how it NEEDS to be more like XI, why aren't you just playing XI? It's still available to play and they still put out content regularly. You know what I remember about XI. I remember how you had to grind everything right out of the gate from lvl 1-50 (yes I played XI before the NA release with Rise of Zilart). I remember how difficult it was to create a pt as a DD, sometimes sitting around for weeks in Jeuno and even after rolling a tank it wasn't much of an improvement. I realize the FFXIV isn't for everyone, and I certainly agree that there needs to be more content, difficulty, and a sense of community, but I don't want to see another FFXI. Also for those that didn't play FFXIV 1.0 it was a lot like FFXI with similar combat style and menu layout and it was considered so difficult to cope with that SE tore it down and rebuilt it. Just saying.

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The reason I personally am not playing ffxi is because ffxi is not ffxi anymore, its something else that was all to recently made worse by the application of ideas learned from our very own yoshida. I remember all the same things you do from ffxi, I also remember a lot of the more important fun times that came with that. People always are very quick to say "this was something I didnt like" but it was part of the journey, I remember the hard time I had getting my Dark Knight AF helm... It took me quite a while trying to get some people to help and then I had to climb the maze to actually get to the fight but it was all for fun. Why do people expect to never have to do this?

Furthermore, why is it somehow not ok to have another ffxi styled game? There are already tons of wow-wannabe games out, so what exactly is not ok about 2 - 3 ffxi alternatives?

FFXI was the best of the best. It was the top of it's class. It was 5 star fine MMO dining while on a luxury cruise ship. World of Warcraft was McDonalds. FFXIV is Waffle House. And don't get me wrong. I love Waffle House for what it is.

But there's a massive amount of people who want a REAL MMORPG. These games today are just single player games with tacked on multiplayer options. They are Diablo with more people in the room. They have no substance. MMOs use to feel like an alternate universe you could really live in. Now they are just Call of Duty with swords and magic.

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Originally Posted by Redemption

Furthermore, why is it somehow not ok to have another ffxi styled game? There are already tons of wow-wannabe games out, so what exactly is not ok about 2 - 3 ffxi alternatives?

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Because they don't make money.