Wanderer's Palace Discrimation

Good to hear this isn't an exploit.

Guess we can put it down to "Interesting use of game mechanics".

I've run this dungeon twice with PUGs and both times we managed to finish under 20 minutes. As long as MNK is fast on the tab-targetting and keeps buffs up, single target damage brings down targets fast enough to not interfere with the speed of the dungeon by a lot.

My thought: Stop looking for parties with ludicrous standards.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Please understand that using this strategy is not in any violation of rules and you will not be subject to penalties for playing this way.

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This is going to be the next Dark Devices, isn't it?

If I get DF wp group with MNK I would instant quit . rather take a 15 min debuff and watch TV than group with MNK .

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Originally Posted by Grailer

If I get DF wp group with MNK I would instant quit . rather take a 15 min debuff and watch TV than group with MNK .

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Wanna be "elitist" prick.

OP, if your FC doesn't want to run with you then you need to find a new FC and LS. I run WP with the MNKs in my FC all the time.

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Originally Posted by Grailer

If I get DF wp group with MNK I would instant quit . rather take a 15 min debuff and watch TV than group with MNK .

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LMAO get over yourself, Probably just mad cause you can't keep hate off a MNK. People need to stop hating on us MNKs.

I see that this is yet another game where I'll have to stay away from elitists, the bane of modern gaming. No problem. :P

I do WP regularly with a DRG and either a SMN or a BRD. We finish between 17-18 minutes most runs.

We have a MNK in my coil group who stresses me out, and I've finally had to ask to hold back in turn 4 because he can out-threat me if he goes all out (might change when I get more i90, he's almost full i90 now himself).

Seriously... 18m WP runs can be done with any party combination. Hell did a 19m WP run last night with SCH, WHM, DRG, PLD.

I find it interesting how ignorant people are of the capability of good melee players. Its sad really.

MNK gets a bad rep in WP because it's not BLM or BRD I guess. I roll a MNK alt and I feel like they shine in AK with the right gear ....better to stay out of the WP AoE fest.

WP speedrun tiers:

10-12 minutes: God tier
12-14 minutes: Great tier
14-16 minutes: Good tier
16-18 minutes: Low tier
18-20 minutes: Bottom tier
>20 minutes: Not a SR

I don't want to waste time with people who think 18-20 minutes is a good WP SR.

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Originally Posted by Lucipurr

Any Monks here also facing discrimination for this? This may apply to SMN / DRG and for AK too. Its always "LF BARD/BLM DPS" in shout, fc, or LS. It takes me hours to find a party but even that, I'm constantly getting kicked in WP after 1 run.

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Originally Posted by Lucipurr

Why is everyone here mad at me? (Except 1 or 2) I was stating the unfairness..


You don't even know me in RL. I'm 15 so I do free time. I don't want to see a person with 5 level 50s saying that.

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I apologize, your right, I don't know you but I was totally unclear who I was directing the comment to. Not to you but to the "speed freaks" who think racing through dungeons will make things better.

I support your OP, PPL shouldn't "poo-poo" someone else's game!
I'm a Monk too and I approve this thread!

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings,

Though this will not really address the core discussion in this thread (apologies for deviating the topic slightly), I've been noticing here and in other locations that players are calling the use of the boss rooms to lock monsters out an exploit. Just to clarify, the development team is of course aware from a specification standpoint about the strategies for Wanderer’s Palace (and other places) that involve using boss rooms to lock out regular monsters, and they have no specific plans to address this currently. In the future there is the possibility that this changes; however, we’ll be keeping it the way it currently is for now.

Please understand that using this strategy is not in any violation of rules and you will not be subject to penalties for playing this way.

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Please, don't take this as a complaint, but what makes that any different from those speedruns that made you change Amdapor Keep some time ago? Just curious to know what has changed >.<

I'm talking about this. In my opinion, locking monsters behind the boss room's wall is actually even worse than tank suicide, and that's why I'm asking if something has changed as to make you decide to keep this one as it is.

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Originally Posted by Yshnal

Please, don't take this as a complaint, but what makes that any different from those speedruns that made you change Amdapor Keep some time ago? Just curious to know what has changed >.<
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The noticeable difference between the previous AK speed runs and current wp is that most of the trash is being killed legitimately. The previous AK speed runs just skipped large portions of the dungeon by training the monsters and hiding. WP monsters are being killed quickly with a few being locked out. Also, the door triggers are still being activated by parties in wp speed running.

@Alyko... sure if its a competition. We're not trying to break any records here. Finishing in 17m vs 15m is not going to make or break anyone's night. You only need 5 WPs to cap after Turns 1, 2, and 4. So the total time saved between god tier 10m runs and a 17m run is about half an hour per week. Is that really worth class discrimination? Shit I probably get 2 runs finished in the time it takes people to put together that 'god tier' group.

Meh done a 12 min WP as MNK quite a few times although group compisition helps it certainly doesnt change much, perhaps you should stop playing with bads.

oh that nice, i always do Speed Run on WP with my trusted FC/LS mates, and sometime even teach them if they want to. Else i still do regular runs sometime, but like wise there are times that i will have to Speed Run it several times because of reset ><

And yet again, forums keep bashing Elitist when there are also ppl OUT THERE that use this and are not Elitist Jerks at all. And completely screwing us over who dont even bother with Elitist jerks and kept to our self.

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Originally Posted by Grailer

If I get DF wp group with MNK I would instant quit . rather take a 15 min debuff and watch TV than group with MNK .

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ignorant deuchebag

Very surprised that they are not going to change this. Doing WP in 12 mins with that lock out is what i've been doing. I mean I guess i'm happy that we can keep doing 12 min runs but i'm just surprised lol.

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Originally Posted by Lucipurr

Any Monks here also facing discrimination for this? This may apply to SMN / DRG and for AK too. Its always "LF BARD/BLM DPS" in shout, fc, or LS. It takes me hours to find a party but even that, I'm constantly getting kicked in WP after 1 run. My average runs are 25 minutes and even my fc's officers kicked me bc the runs are supposed to take 10 minutes. I'm using the 50 and 130 potency aoes but seems like it's not enough apparently.

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i play with any one! some want blm mostly for speed runs i have never seen any asking for bards i would happily go with ANY melee class i enjoy the run

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Originally Posted by Yshnal

Please, don't take this as a complaint, but what makes that any different from those speedruns that made you change Amdapor Keep some time ago? Just curious to know what has changed >.<

I'm talking about this. In my opinion, locking monsters behind the boss room's wall is actually even worse than tank suicide, and that's why I'm asking if something has changed as to make you decide to keep this one as it is.

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That sounds like a big massive complaint to me. And who cares if it's not any different from other speedruns that they changed? they should have never "fixed" Amdapor Keep in the first place.

They have to fix this somehow. When 2.1 comes, we might have an option for WP and AK from the new dungeons that's coming, and hopefully they aren't as aoe centric. That might be enough to fix this....

Most people here seem to think it's totally right that BRD and BLM (and SMN works well too) is the only one getting SP groups... How can you think that ?!

It's not like you wont find a group though. You don't have to do speedruns, even though it's faster, you don't really need to do it that fast. You will just run out of content like all other elitist players that QQ's about having nothing to do.

And also... Leave the FC of yours. Why would you stay with people that kicks you from their group ?

I'm regularly a part of 12 minute WP runs. I don't see a reason to discriminate against monks; our AoE is fine.

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Originally Posted by Luso

The noticeable difference between the previous AK speed runs and current wp is that most of the trash is being killed legitimately. The previous AK speed runs just skipped large portions of the dungeon by training the monsters and hiding. WP monsters are being killed quickly with a few being locked out. Also, the door triggers are still being activated by parties in wp speed running.

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As far as I've seen, the only things that are being killed are those mobs locking the path (tomberrys) or that drop oil. The rest of them are simply ignored and carried to the wall, then blocked there. Those that die are simply collateral damage while killing the ones that I said.

I think that what made some people think that it was an exploit (it isn't, as clarified by Camate) is that it's a somewhat similar method to path locking a boss to kill it easier. But anyway, the fact is that the dungeon is not being completed in a "fair" or apparently intended manner (for the player), so to speak, and that's what makes it so similar to the tank suicide method from the original AK.

But you're right, maybe what you said is the same reason behind the devs decision. It would be nice to know it if they could clarify it a bit, though.

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Originally Posted by Bufkus

That sounds like a big massive complaint to me. And who cares if it's not any different from other speedruns that they changed? they should have never "fixed" Amdapor Keep in the first place.

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Well, it isn't. It's just curiosity, as you yourself are saying that AK shouldn't have been changed. The fact of the matter is not if it should or shouldn't be changed, but why one was changed while the other one won't (at the moment). It's as simple as that. They can choose to not answer it telling us what they think is different as to not require a change, but I don't think that I'm doing anything wrong by asking an honest question politely :/

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Originally Posted by Lucipurr

Any Monks here also facing discrimination for this? This may apply to SMN / DRG and for AK too. Its always "LF BARD/BLM DPS" in shout, fc, or LS. It takes me hours to find a party but even that, I'm constantly getting kicked in WP after 1 run. My average runs are 25 minutes and even my fc's officers kicked me bc the runs are supposed to take 10 minutes. I'm using the 50 and 130 potency aoes but seems like it's not enough apparently.

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Your FC sounds like a bunch of bleeps...maybe time to find a new FC.

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Originally Posted by Gangaloo

Sadly, it seems like MNK just gets screwed on WP speed runs.

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TP issues when spamming any kind of AoE - and poor AoE at that. Painful class is painful right now.

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Originally Posted by Mikedizzy

10 minutes is BS...no one is doing that...I don't care if they are all super geared or not.

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Pro-tip: not all the trash needs to be killed. My record is 9:45 as DRG BLM WHM PLD

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Originally Posted by Reiterpallasch

This is what happens when people cry for nerfs to speedruns. Not the optimal class with aoe (since we have to kill everything now, derp)? Too bad, back of the line. Speedruns didn't go away, but instead adapted to the newly "improved" dungeons.

There was a time when class didn't matter, because people just skipped mobs and killed the bosses. But people were against that and cried "nerf! nerf! nerf!".

You got exactly what you guys asked for, and I'm perfectly content with that.

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Agreed.
/10Char

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Originally Posted by Gamemako

This is going to be the next Dark Devices, isn't it?

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Sounds that way. "the game mechanics are working as intended" didn't last very long there now did it?

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Originally Posted by carlos777uk

TP issues when spamming any kind of AoE - and poor AoE at that. Painful class is painful right now.

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Painful because they're not good at EVERYTHING? I love playing MNK as it is, if every DPS class was as good at every kind of damage as the other classes the game would be even more of a clone-fest as it already is.

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Originally Posted by glim

well we did it in 11 minutes..

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your signature makes me want to laugh forever. hahahahahaha thank you.

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Originally Posted by Grailer

If I get DF wp group with MNK I would instant quit . rather take a 15 min debuff and watch TV than group with MNK .

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Your math needs review...

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Originally Posted by Lucipurr

Any Monks here also facing discrimination for this? This may apply to SMN / DRG and for AK too. Its always "LF BARD/BLM DPS" in shout, fc, or LS. It takes me hours to find a party but even that, I'm constantly getting kicked in WP after 1 run. My average runs are 25 minutes and even my fc's officers kicked me bc the runs are supposed to take 10 minutes. I'm using the 50 and 130 potency aoes but seems like it's not enough apparently.

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On my server I've seen SMN burn Wp runs all summoners, no tanks, No heals.

OPTIMAL setup for a WP SR is PLD, BRD, BLM, WHM.... sorry if people get butt hurt, that's just the way it is... I have tried running with other jobs, a geared WAR can sub for a PLD but that's about it. If you don't run a BRD for songs then after pulls you are waiting around for 3 mins for mana, OR you PLD goes oom during pulls and BLM pulls hate and dies, WHM goes oom trying to heal BLM and PLD, PLD dies, WHM dies, 4th guy is sitting there thinking, man these people suck.... so ya

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Originally Posted by magicninja999

OPTIMAL setup for a WP SR is PLD, BRD, BLM, WHM....
[...]
If you don't run a BRD for songs then after pulls you are waiting around for 3 mins for mana, OR you PLD goes oom during pulls

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1. Your optimal setup is correct for generally accurate reasons.

2. The magnitude of mana management for the Paladin is pretty far off of what you're claiming. As long as the PLD knows wtf they're doing, they can adapt to not having a bard song and will only have to wait around for mana for ~15 seconds max during the entire run. However, this does require a learning curve.

The overall lighter strain on PLD mana management also enables them to use more sprint, though, which also reduces total clear time by a few seconds -- probably 10-15s from that component.

A total ~30-45s penalty for not having barsong for the PLD is not going to make or break a WP run, however.

Give us DRGs and Monks better aoe. Problem fixed.

Monk has bad AoE. Dragoon has 'ok' AoE. Bard has 'ok' AoE, but has Ballad, so because everyone runs a Paladin, they get a pass.

WP is just a bunch of AoE. If you can't do it well, you don't get preferred treatment in going there. People want the fastest, easiest runs, that is no surprise.

Monk, and to some degree Dragoon, have the AoE they do because they have good ST damage. You can't have everything. Sorry, the primary dungeon for farming philo right now is AoE-centric, it won't always be that way. But, for the time being, if you are a Monk, you are ill-prepared to perform as well as other classes in WP.

As an SMN, to some degree, I feel your pain. I get stereotyped in much the same way as Monk, though a bit less deserving of it.

At some point in the future, I'm sure there will be some 'prime dungeon' for farming of some other currency, and it will be a bunch of ST fights. All the BLMs and BRDs will be whining about how they can't get a group, blah blah blah, while the monks are all sitting pretty.

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Originally Posted by CyanDvai

Wanna be "elitist" prick.

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Somebody says they don't like to play with MNKs, so you instantly attack and insult them? Absolutely disgusting.

I believe every DPS it s worthy in it s special way, my main/favorite DPS it s SMN but I enjoy BLM too I use it as my "relax" job since it s pretty much press a macro and let the numbers flow LOL!. My second Char main is BRD not because it s OP I like my brd for how you can use it and moves. My third char it s a SCH and even when people rather run as whm if they have a sch I rather SCH everyday. Even that I have Relic+1 on my first 2 chars I can t care less about SR people worry so much about clearing shit ASAP and 2 min later whinning about they have NOTHING else to do for the whole week lol but it s their choice I guess. Altho I understand if people don t want certain classes for certain situation as you choose a job to use people have the right to choose the job they want into their group/party to do stuff with don t expect to be loved by everyone all the time because you want to stick with 1 role/job forever when others rather pick another one, it s just "preference".

As many mentioned it s better to build your own group or start making friends to go with than randoms/DF forever in the long run it s more enjoyable to play with people you like even if it takes "longer" than speedrunning forever with people bitching about everything all the time. GL to your Mnk and the other "unwanted" jobs you guys have no problem it s just that AoE isn t your thing as the other jobs might not be as powerfull on 1 target as you guys are so cheers :)

Yea general consensus is PLD, BLM, BRD and WHM. PLD is the preferred tank for everything, but a WAR works as well. BLM is required for AOE sleep and Flares. BRD for mana songs and they also do good AOE DPS as well. WHM is preferred because of Holy Spam, although I think SCH would work too. For me runs are usually 13 min with a random pug group. But the fastest WP SR is a little over 8min, they have a youtube video up somewhere, pretty crazy. If you dont take a BLM / BRD, it can push the time to like 25min or so which is double the time so most people dont like it. My only advise is to gear up a PLD, BLM, BRD or WHM just for you weekly Myth farming.