Even SE staff hates Warriors...

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Even SE staff hates Warriors

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Yeah, stop hating Warriors! And while you're at it, stop hating Mages, Melee DPS, and Goldsmiths!

SE hates Mages
Why-does-SE-hate-melee-dps?
SE hates Goldsmiths


It's like they hate EVERYTHING!

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Originally Posted by Twiddle

Paladin fine as is.
Warrior fine as is.
Problem: people play Warrior like a Paladin, and as such superimpose restrictions on the WAR which should not be there. Even Yoshida said the same thing. That both WAR and PLD respectively are working as intended, and they can not nerf or boost a job based on people's bad playing method. I was looking at a parser, and a war in full ilvl 60 armor and garuda weapon was doing x1.5 the dmg of a relic/dl dps in the party. Because he optimized his rotation. It's hard to believe but you can in fact do coil and titan, in minimum requirement armor and still face roll. AS long as you optimize your job.

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I partied with a PLD. He was in full DL with just relic and so was I except I was wearing DL STR acc. The parser said he did more DPS, but I know he didn't optimize his rotation because the whole fight he was in PT chat saying "lol warrior"

Fact of the matter is, when it boils down to it, gear for gear, and at this point of time, you know who you want to tank.

Stop it.

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

Yeah, stop hating Warriors! And while you're at it, stop hating Mages, Melee DPS, and Goldsmiths!

SE hates Mages
Why-does-SE-hate-melee-dps?
SE hates Goldsmiths


It's like they hate EVERYTHING!

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You should go check out a youtube channel call Nature Hates You.

Yeah.. basically hate is all around.

Lol One skill..even though there is a delay on it. Hallowed Ground! <3 it! ^^

i dont get it, war and pld are both a joke in pvp

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Originally Posted by Twiddle

Paladin fine as is.
Warrior fine as is.
Problem: people play Warrior like a Paladin, and as such superimpose restrictions on the WAR which should not be there. Even Yoshida said the same thing. That both WAR and PLD respectively are working as intended, and they can not nerf or boost a job based on people's bad playing method. I was looking at a parser, and a war in full ilvl 60 armor and garuda weapon was doing x1.5 the dmg of a relic/dl dps in the party. Because he optimized his rotation. It's hard to believe but you can in fact do coil and titan, in minimum requirement armor and still face roll. AS long as you optimize your job.

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Just quoting for attention. Enjoy the lulz with me guys.

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Originally Posted by calamityz

Just quoting for attention. Enjoy the lulz with me guys.

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Am happy your happy, yet i see no reason for the lulz! Warrior is fine as is, so is Paladin, i have both at 50, i use the same armor on both, and i have relic on both. What i do differently is that i play them as separate jobs, while most kiddies here play them alike. You don't play BRD and MNK alike, why would you for WAR and PLD?

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Originally Posted by Twiddle

Am happy your happy, yet i see no reason for the lulz! Warrior is fine as is, so is Paladin, i have both at 50, i use the same armor on both, and i have relic on both. What i do differently is that i play them as separate jobs, while most kiddies here play them alike. You don't play BRD and MNK alike, why would you for WAR and PLD?

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Oh please dear adult, enlighten us with your ideas of what warriors should do to differentiate themselves from "paladins". Should I hold my axe between my legs or run around in circles instead of standing there like a paladin?

Due to playing a lot of 50 WAR PLD and WHM I have to say I pretty much stopped playing WAR due to respect for my healers. Even some of my well geared relic friends make me cringe when I have no choice but to spam cures. I love these jobs and though I don't want to see a huge improvement(in 1.0 WAR literally -replaced- PLD and PLD wasn't wanted anymore) just a slight defense boost would be lovely.

the wraith system needs a revamp, non of the abilities seem worth the 5 wraiths. i can use inner beast, yay, and i get a free cure II, but i gotta get those stacks again cause that healing loss is too much. for having limitiations and making sacrifices for using abilities none of them seem to feel really powerful. I guess if I'd say what i want for my QOL buffs for war
Thrill of battle - needs more added to it, as it is now its just a cure II on a long timer make it heal a bit, then each hit restores 10% of damage lost or something,
Vengence - over all weak, needs something else to it. make increase the amount of damge parried to 30% for 10 seconds or
wraith system needs to be tweaked to make skills use different amount of wraiths, or revamp the system or buff the abilities to make them more powerful. you give up too much to use an ability

blood for blood, add in flat amount + percentage, right now pretty weak, you get about a cure 1 1/2 over 30 seconds, negliable.
My thoughts, im a pretty scrub warrior but im a big fan, i just feel like they need a little extra.

I'm so sick of people who have zero endgame experience on Warrior saying that the class is fine. Here's a quote for those of you I'm talking about; "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt."

I think people taking part in this discussion are talking about different instances. WAR is completely fine up to tomestone farming and it can be used in all endgame but if PLD is an option for a coil run, or even Garuda or Titan, no one would ever pick WAR instead. It's simply because PLD is the safer option, they do take a lot less damage which is a significant advantage with mobs that have high damage crits or just hit hard and often. And that's where I believe the problem is: WAR doesn't have anything against PLD, PLD takes significantly less damage.

My WAR is in AF1 with some Hoplite bits, got a WHM/SCH friend who heals me through AK easily on both classes.
Why the hell are you spamming Cure IIs at the Warrior? Regen ticks for 350 when i have Infuriate, sometimes 400 if she starts hitting buffs or i hit a cooldown. The big guys hit me 1k a pop, which is partially restored by a Regen tick, then a Storms Eye/Path and then an Inner Beast if i don't see a Cure I being cast and I'm under 70%.
I realize AK isn't exactly endgame, yet the final boss barely dents my HP (6100) except with Rotten Breath which hits for 1700 ~ 2000. Which i immediately drop a Storms Eye boosted Inner Beast for +1000 ~ +1400, followed by Infuriate when its up, or just 15 seconds to get my stack back if i know the Eye Beams aren't coming.
If you're on Hyperion, I'll gladly run AK with you.

Also, since +Damage buffs don't boost Limit Break Damage, Why are you assuming -Damage buffs will work too? If you see someone in PvP blowing a Limit Break (and lets face it, if you miss THAT cast, you deserve to get hit) interrupt it, and use your own.
Looks like the LB will be a key component to getting wins. Do it right and get a solid kill, screw it up and open yourself to the other teams LB and a potential loss. Won't be the only decider, but most likely a good one.

well looks like they plan to discuss balancing of both Warrior and Dragoon at the live letter tomorrow. Clearly this topic got enough complaints that they're finally addressing it ＼(^o^)／

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Originally Posted by Nukocafe

well looks like they plan to discuss balancing of both Warrior and Dragoon at the live letter tomorrow. Clearly this topic got enough complaints that they're finally addressing it ＼(^o^)／

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Source? Because you just made me really curious. LOL


Also, I think there is a few things that people seem to forget and/or ignore when it comes to the PLD and WAR.

People are constantly saying that you can't play them the same, but why is everyone trying to heal them the same? Another thing loosely tied to that. One thing I have noticed with many, if not most, healers is that they tend to spam heal too much. I literally waste 2k+ IB's all the time in everything up to Garuda from a spam heal. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind it being topped off at all times, but at times, it really isn't needed. and it wastes my IB heal. I have also never had a healer OOM on me unless I was intentionally trying to run through everything in a dung, or because DPS cannot seem to avoid Ifrit's rushes. I remember when end game required precision on everyone's part. It's too bad WAR brings that feeling back, but PLD makes it WoW style.

The other thing I find odd is that all these parses and numbers are being tossed around, and while some of it is new, some of it is outdated. I wish we could just trash ALL old data and start fresh.

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Originally Posted by C-croft

Source? Because you just made me really curious. LOL.

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From last nights test broadcast - It's in JP but here's the vid link http://goo.gl/G2Xpk5 7min mark they talk about how they will discuss regarding job balance and mention WAR and DRG during that part.

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Originally Posted by Hanabira

But... the drg used a limit break on the war.. im pretty sure if he hit the pld with that, he'd be dead too

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Hallow Ground.. then PLD just laughs at the DRG as the animation finally comes to an end.

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Originally Posted by Reinheart

From last nights test broadcast - It's in JP but here's the vid link http://goo.gl/G2Xpk5 7min mark they talk about how they will discuss regarding job balance and mention WAR and DRG during that part.

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Woot! Thank you Reinheart!

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Originally Posted by nekochen

Hallow Ground.. then PLD just laughs at the DRG as the animation finally comes to an end.

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Until the PLD realizes s/he has been lag duped and blew Hallowed ground for nothing.

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Originally Posted by CurlyBruce

Add in that Morale is going to be a PVP stat that either a) reduces damage taken from players or b) increases damage dealt by players implying that PvP damage will be nerfed somewhat.

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I'll guess Morale will increase PvP damage. They can't possibly nerf PvP damage, it would end up being impossible to kill anyone without limit break. It was hard enough in the short beta they did. If for some reason you left the WHM alone they could keep the party alive with their eyes closed, that 15 secs you just spent wailing on someone could be cancelled out by a single Cure II.

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Originally Posted by Twiddle

Paladin fine as is.
Warrior fine as is.
Problem: people play Warrior like a Paladin, and as such superimpose restrictions on the WAR which should not be there. Even Yoshida said the same thing. That both WAR and PLD respectively are working as intended, and they can not nerf or boost a job based on people's bad playing method. I was looking at a parser, and a war in full ilvl 60 armor and garuda weapon was doing x1.5 the dmg of a relic/dl dps in the party. Because he optimized his rotation. It's hard to believe but you can in fact do coil and titan, in minimum requirement armor and still face roll. AS long as you optimize your job.

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A tank's primary functions are to A) hold enmity and B) not die. Currently the PLD can hold hate well enough so that A) doesn't matter in most situations save AoE threat, and the number of situations where WAR's AoE threat capacity is going to make much of a difference is very limited. And a PLD is currently much better at B). DPS (as a tank) is a secondary function and is less important than the first two, which makes a WARs better DPS (in tank stance) a relatively minor bonus.

It's not about different playstyle, it's about math. Go check out the Tank forums and find one of the comparison threads that have an extensive breakdown of the 2 classes and the abilities they get (try to ignore all the "i feel" posts, most of that is garbage).

I'll not get into the specifics (they've been gone over in that forum enough) but the basics are that a PLD requires, due to shield oath + shield block + rage of halone + superior defensive cooldowns, a lot less healing to stay alive in any situation where there's a lot of incoming damage (any situation where anybody's going to care). And a WAR's self healing, no matter how many offensive stats you stack (offensive stats usually come at the cost of defensive stats, so it's not a straight bonus here), cannot close that gap. And thus people will much more often prefer a PLD because it's just a safer tanking option (especially when dealing with new or difficult content) no matter how much skill the WAR has.

And to further throw salt in the wound, there are a number of end game fights where PLD specific bonuses (no cooldown stun, a silence, ability to massively reduce incoming damage) are extremely desirable, while there are few if any fights that cater to the WAR (higher actual HP, not to be confused with effective HP, a healing debuff, better AoE threat, and maybe 10-15% extra optimal DPS in tank stance).

We just need more adventurers taking the role of Warriors, just so they can say they tied it. PvP will seperate the men from the mice and all honestly, its based off play-style. (well, pvp wont play the same as pve so nvm)

Warriors can DPS and hold hate because of it. It's not the same with Paladins. With Warriors large HP pool(VIT) they make a good alternative tank but it need, it needs to be healed, wars need healing, more healing power than PLDs. With Plds, WHMs...OMG WHMs... if your PLD tank is losing HP so quick in the fight, he's a very bad PLD(no def) tank. (period)

We need more warriors because their ability to hold hate and tank is based off VIT and STR. That's my own point of view, my own assessment and perspective, please carry one with the discussion. I also think, that Wars are good backup tanks + DPS(DDs) in case there's a need for crowd control. That is all. :)

made me laugh.

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Originally Posted by Amyas

Yoshi-P said War was 'very powerful' and that players haven't researched enough when asked about if they were going to 'fix' warrior during the TGS live letter.

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Right, because Yoshi-P is going to admit that WAR is underpowered/in need to tweaks in a Q&A event aimed at new players/potential customers. It'd be bad business to do so, even before you factor in the Japanese's whole "outer face" thing.

So we have 2 of our 3 coil groups past turn 4 with a WAR tank, does that mean we are doing something wrong or there are just too many bad WAR out there?

No one is saying anything can't be done with WAR, that's not the issue, WAR can be used in any content (I have no coil turn 5 experience so can't talk about that). The problem is, there's no reason to pick WAR over PLD for pretty much anything and when given a choice, people will always pick PLD over WAR because it's the safer option (because PLD simply takes less damage from every single hit and is not in as much danger of going down because of multiple crits in a row, for example). The problem is, WAR desn't have any advantage over PLD when PLD has a clear advantage over WAR.

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Originally Posted by Riyo

So we have 2 of our 3 coil groups past turn 4 with a WAR tank, does that mean we are doing something wrong or there are just too many bad WAR out there?

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Love that argument.
Nobody said it's "impossible" to beat the current content with a warrior tank.
It *is* possible, but by choosing to do so you're shooting yourself in the leg.
Just as it's possible to complete 8-man fight with 6-7 people, wear bikinis for armor and so on. Fun in it's own way, probably, but not really working as intended.

Warriors are squishy .

I always feel on the brink of death with warrior .

But with Paladin it feels so much more like a tank .

btw I have both 50 war and paladin . I prefer using war for off tanking , paladin for tanking boss.

Warriors actually scale better with gear and the dev team that cleared coils turn 5 used 2 warriors. My FC is on turn 5 in coils and we use warriors just fine. They arent as weak as you think they are, its just not easy mode tank and spank like PLDs.

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Originally Posted by Taika

No one is saying anything can't be done with WAR, that's not the issue, WAR can be used in any content (I have no coil turn 5 experience so can't talk about that). The problem is, there's no reason to pick WAR over PLD for pretty much anything and when given a choice, people will always pick PLD over WAR because it's the safer option (because PLD simply takes less damage from every single hit and is not in as much danger of going down because of multiple crits in a row, for example). The problem is, WAR desn't have any advantage over PLD when PLD has a clear advantage over WAR.

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WAR has an easier time AOE tanking than PLD. WAR does more AOE damage than PLD.

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Originally Posted by Grailer

Warriors are squishy .

I always feel on the brink of death with warrior .

But with Paladin it feels so much more like a tank .

btw I have both 50 war and paladin . I prefer using war for off tanking , paladin for tanking boss.

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One of the things I notice with a lot of content in this game is their are universal applications but each class is pigeon holed in to specific roles. It starts very early and it's rigid. I'm sure Warrior has a core function but they play like healer. You need them in specific application and when you don't need them, you don't need them at all. Warrior will shine when you need an Add's tank that can still put the add's down while tanking them. After that they are dead weight.

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Originally Posted by Ksenia

One of the things I notice with a lot of content in this game is their are universal applications but each class is pigeon holed in to specific roles. It starts very early and it's rigid. I'm sure Warrior has a core function but they play like healer. You need them in specific application and when you don't need them, you don't need them at all. Warrior will shine when you need an Add's tank that can still put the add's down while tanking them. After that they are dead weight.

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Our WARRIOR tank in our FC was able to tank TITAN HM better than our PALADIN tank. Our Paladin tank is a decent player, but we haven't had trouble getting through any content yet with our WARRIOR. If you think WAR is dead weight, you're bad.

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Originally Posted by Reinheart

Off topic but on the video @ 1:02 DRG is fighting PLD?? I thought DRG is in PLD's team or PLD & DRG fighting a invisible WAR? Since next scene they show them both attacking the WAR.

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well obviously it is a free for all

everyone just celebrates when they kill the warrior and acts like that is the end so everyone knows how much SE hate warrior

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Originally Posted by Riyo

So we have 2 of our 3 coil groups past turn 4 with a WAR tank, does that mean we are doing something wrong or there are just too many bad WAR out there?

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You've got WARs tanking double dreadnaughts? I hear that's pretty tough. You must have some pretty sick healers.

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Originally Posted by FallenHero

Warriors actually scale better with gear

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They get better inner beasts with gear and a couple hundred extra points worth of thrill of battle.

Does that match how much better PLD scale with getting hit harder? (coil hits pretty hard, no?)

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Originally Posted by Tenku

Our WARRIOR tank in our FC was able to tank TITAN HM better than our PALADIN tank. Our Paladin tank is a decent player, but we haven't had trouble getting through any content yet with our WARRIOR. If you think WAR is dead weight, you're bad.

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Ending the reply with you telling me I'm "bad" says you aren't looking for a discussion, you just want to pick a fight.

So feel free to troll me some more, little forum warrior.

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Originally Posted by Tenku

WAR has an easier time AOE tanking than PLD. WAR does more AOE damage than PLD.

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And currently AoE tanking is limited to what, AK/WP trash packs where even a MNK/DRG can "tank" given enough healing?
Every single serious boss fight is built towards PLD tanks, not to mention they bring more utility to the raid via silence, no-CD stuns, damage interception and superior defensive cooldowns, including invulnerability for burn phases.

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

You've got WARs tanking double dreadnaughts? I hear that's pretty tough. You must have some pretty sick healers.



They get better inner beasts with gear and a couple hundred extra points worth of thrill of battle.

Does that match how much better PLD scale with getting hit harder? (coil hits pretty hard, no?)

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The healers will be healing you to full regardless and the larger health pools are nice, PLDs damn near get 1 shotted sometimes. It starts to even out a little more at ilvl90.

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Originally Posted by Amyas

Sounds like a personal problem to me. Healers I've had in AK have no problem keeping me up while spamming holy in cleric's stance :P

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I never said he died, I just said he was hard to keep his HP up. ):< considering the large amount warriors already have.. what I thought was bad was actually only a small portion of his HP. and I am anal about people not being topped off.

WARs are so rare now. a lot of tankers play both PLD and WAR but 90% of them will play PLD as their main job.

I'm in that group, I have both leveled and have not even touched my Warrior. Have no plans to level a relic on it either because it's just not worth it over PLD.