I feel bad for Tanaka. (Tanaka appreciation thread)

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Originally Posted by Ilean

QQ moar please!

And yes Suz, let's trade all our QQers for people who don't delude themselves into thinking this game ever had a chance to succeed under Tanaka.

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I'm not saying it didn't have a chance, I'm saying he released it in shambles and that he was going to rework the same things Yoshida-P is reworking right now.

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Originally Posted by Ilean

QQ moar please!

And yes Suz, let's trade all our QQers for people who don't delude themselves into thinking this game ever had a chance to succeed under Tanaka.

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would you explain where i QQ'd at all by stating i never said i wanted this game to be like xi? the way the member base is going you are trading active players for inactive players.

edit: btw suz this is exactly what i was talking about was the type of person that came into an appreciation thread. i was not trying to state you in particular, but you can only take so many of these direct insults before you respond to them.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

would you explain where i QQ'd at all by stating i never said i wanted this game to be like xi? the way the member base is going you are trading active players for inactive players.

edit: btw suz this is exactly what i was talking about was the type of person that came into an appreciation thread. i was not trying to state you in particular, but you can only take so many of these direct insults before you respond to them.

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I never insulted you nor Tanaka directly, I simply said the game he released was crap and that it was indeed his fault that it was such. Apparently you have ignored any source somebody has brought in proving so and you have brought in no sources of your own to support your refusals. Every post of yours is nearly baseless speculation and it's very tired reading your posts about how much you love Tanaka's game and how small of a chance you are willing to give Yoshida-P, who, according to you, is turning this into WoW, although none of the implemented changes have been moving us towards WoW and we haven't seen enough of the future changes to say that they are going to turn the game into WoW.

Now please change topic or stop posting, as the thread is being derailed further.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

i can appreciate the vision of where the game was intended to wind up, but in the same mind think it was in horrid shape upon release.

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that shows in one of my earlier posts i am not in love with tanaka nor the game as it was released. all i did was take up from the original developer in saying i wish the vision would have been completed. i was not the one that turned this into a bash tanaka thread to derail it and neither did you. that is why i apologized to you in the above post and stated i was not talking about you specifically, but the bashers in general.

I honestly believe Tanaka had a good initial vision, but according to a video that was previously linked by another user on the forums, Tanaka spent too much time on FFXIV's graphics engine, expecting the new engine's high-end graphics to make people flock to it (which we did) and support the game, but didn't end up give the world it's own style.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/vide...-vs-Aesthetics

I literally can't think of anything in the game that makes me say "Oh, hell yeah, that's Final Fantasy 14 right there." (Besides Dodo's perhaps..and Dodo's aren't particularly a style). He tried too hard to be different, even if it was ambitious, and it turned out to be a flop. Players didn't influence the game for 5 years, Tanaka did. Too much time on a graphics engine instead of perfecting the gameplay first and then making the touches on the engine.

Also, I think everyone needs to stop giving Yoshi-P crap until 1.18 releases. EVERYONE knows how hard they are working. It's kind of ridiculous that this needs to be said for the 100th time: They're reworking the entire system. That'll take some time and they STILL added stuff to help keep us entertained on the side until we got the real juicy stuff.

I'll thank Tanaka for his initial vision, and it took a lot of guts to look over his ego and step-down, taking full responsibility. If the management actually forced him to, I'm sure he would have quit. Gotta remember the Japanese have a way bigger sense of honor than Westerners do. I don't mind him collaborating with Yoshi-P in order to enhance the final product of the game, but I still think Yoshi-P needs to be given the proper time and respect before people start bashing his work thus far.

Square Enix blames Tanaka for their own ineptitude.

You let them blame Tanaka. You let them continue their ineptitude.

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Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX

I never insulted you nor Tanaka directly, I simply said the game he released was crap and that it was indeed his fault that it was such. Apparently you have ignored any source somebody has brought in proving so and you have brought in no sources of your own to support your refusals. Every post of yours is nearly baseless speculation and it's very tired reading your posts about how much you love Tanaka's game and how small of a chance you are willing to give Yoshida-P, who, according to you, is turning this into WoW, although none of the implemented changes have been moving us towards WoW and we haven't seen enough of the future changes to say that they are going to turn the game into WoW.

Now please change topic or stop posting, as the thread is being derailed further.

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so wait you don't think dungeon/raid is wow at all? yoshi said himself it would be a lot like them also -.- i bet they not even going to change it much.

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Originally Posted by Zenaku

so wait you don't think dungeon/raid is wow at all? yoshi said himself it would be a lot like them also -.- i bet they not even going to change it much.

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LOL, yoshi come up with original ideas? I'd like to see that! Lol.

It seems to me that a lot of stuff that was "difficult" (read: impossible) under Tanaka suddenly became realistic when Yoshida took the reins. Case in point: this forum. I remember Tanaka saying that they wouldn't be instituting official forums because the developers speak Japanese whereas many of the players do not. It just wouldn't work... But turn the game over to Yoshida, and here we are. Apparently they have these people called "translators" who can post messages from the development staff in English, French, and German. Voilà! :eek: Official forum.

I've enjoyed several games Tanaka has worked on, including FFIII and FFXI. But I think Yoshida has a good grasp of what FFXIV and its community need, and he makes things happen. The fact that we're posting on an official site with community representatives that read what we say speaks to that.

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Originally Posted by Zenaku

so wait you don't think dungeon/raid is wow at all? yoshi said himself it would be a lot like them also -.- i bet they not even going to change it much.

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He said they would be more Western, not more WoW. There were/are Western MMOs other than WoW, you know.

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Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX

He said they would be more Western, not more WoW. There were/are Western MMOs other than WoW, you know.

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It be more western which = WoW :) WoW is mainstream so when we talk about anything that is dungeon,raid battle ground and so on we talking about wow the rest are just wow clones. Aka Rift,aion and so on are just wow clone following what wow did.

Why can't FFXIV make dungeon more there own? not follow how western does it we going to get bored of it within the first few hours and everyone would be on here bi????? about it you wait and see.

For the love of god.. This game is not turning into wow, Wow is it's on Catagory that is declining as of late ( they still have alot of subs but they lost alot recently) so put a pin on the wow clone subject sheesh lmao!

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Originally Posted by Zenaku

It be more western which = WoW :) WoW is mainstream so when we talk about anything that is dungeon,raid battle ground and so on we talking about wow the rest are just wow clones. Aka Rift,aion and so on are just wow clone following what wow did.

Why can't FFXIV make dungeon more there own? not follow how western does it we going to get bored of it within the first few hours and everyone would be on here bi????? about it you wait and see.

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Everquest, Guild Wars, Ultima Online, we really don't know what he means by "more Western."

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Originally Posted by Vesperia

It must have been awful working beneath the tyranny of the Square Enix boardroom, slaving away day after day trying to meet a deadline, only to have customers hate your product in the end.

What a thankless task.

Well not anymore! Thank you Tanaka.

Edit: Can a moderator please forward our sentiments to Tanaka-san.

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Who said that even happened like that? For one, I'd like to know the real story. And two, I definitely have some things I'd like to pass on to Tanaka.

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Originally Posted by Kensaki

A thread appreciating the man who single handedly ensured this game was a failure. Keep on trucking white knights.

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LMAO

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Originally Posted by Rane

It seems to me that a lot of stuff that was "difficult" (read: impossible) under Tanaka suddenly became realistic when Yoshida took the reins. Case in point: this forum. I remember Tanaka saying that they wouldn't be instituting official forums because the developers speak Japanese whereas many of the players do not. It just wouldn't work... But turn the game over to Yoshida, and here we are. Apparently they have these people called "translators" who can post messages from the development staff in English, French, and German. Voilà! :eek: Official forum.

I've enjoyed several games Tanaka has worked on, including FFIII and FFXI. But I think Yoshida has a good grasp of what FFXIV and its community need, and he makes things happen. The fact that we're posting on an official site with community representatives that read what we say speaks to that.

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For all the good it does the game! lol

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Originally Posted by Rane

It seems to me that a lot of stuff that was "difficult" (read: impossible) under Tanaka suddenly became realistic when Yoshida took the reins. Case in point: this forum. I remember Tanaka saying that they wouldn't be instituting official forums because the developers speak Japanese whereas many of the players do not. It just wouldn't work... But turn the game over to Yoshida, and here we are. Apparently they have these people called "translators" who can post messages from the development staff in English, French, and German. Voilà! :eek: Official forum.

I've enjoyed several games Tanaka has worked on, including FFIII and FFXI. But I think Yoshida has a good grasp of what FFXIV and its community need, and he makes things happen. The fact that we're posting on an official site with community representatives that read what we say speaks to that.

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Yeah for real! Excellent point! If we were under Tanaka's rule, well, we wouldn't even be having this conversation would we! There would be no forum to have it on. Very striking when you think of it that way.

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Originally Posted by Nuru

Yeah, the same product with the rushed release.

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That's funny, because I paid for a full game. Tanaka basically made really pretty chair legs that could potentially have been base for a nice chair (with the ammount of work needed to be put into it outnumbering the one that was actually done), and sold them to me as a finished product.


Then he balanced them inbetween the ground and my asscheeks and watched as I wiggled in agony trying to make them work as a real chair.

I can't believe people are making a tanaka appreciation thread. Did the guy have good ideas? Sure. But the ass sold us an unfinished product. It was so unfinished the new head designer isn't ready to charge the players to pay a monthly fee.
Where has tanaka said he felt the game was unfinished and a bunch of faceless suits forced him into releasing it?

And even in that case, tanaka himself stated he designed the awful launch UI. And that was pretty much the one complete thing on XIV.

Rushed release? Get a grip, there was a lot wrong on xiv due to tanaka's lead that had nothing to do with time, and so very little right.

He didn't "sell you an unfinished product", SE did that.

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Originally Posted by Vesperia

He didn't "sell you an unfinished product", SE did that.

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He was xiv's game producer.
You know what the new game producer says? That he doesn't feel XIV is up game standars to charge for it and that they won't charge players until he feels it is. who decides when a game is up to par to be commercializable? Could it be... the... oh I know,

the game producer.

Tanaka was the producer, and by taking that role he was responsible for the shitty state the game ended up in. All the crap about it not being his fault is irellevant.

Also; ten year old can have a "vision" of how he wants something to be

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Originally Posted by Rane

It seems to me that a lot of stuff that was "difficult" (read: impossible) under Tanaka suddenly became realistic when Yoshida took the reins. Case in point: this forum. I remember Tanaka saying that they wouldn't be instituting official forums because the developers speak Japanese whereas many of the players do not. It just wouldn't work... But turn the game over to Yoshida, and here we are. Apparently they have these people called "translators" who can post messages from the development staff in English, French, and German. Voilà! :eek: Official forum.

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This is exactly what I think, and is also why FFXI is so much better without him leading it, too. Case in point: Recently new key NPCs that were previously only in the main city of current (jeuno) have been moved to the three other cities to try and spread the population a bit. Now, in Windurst the NPCs were moved to a somewhat inconvenient place because of 'game limitations' or something, and people complained. The Tanaka response would've been "It's not possible", whereas the current dev team went "We'll move them to a better position, but they will not be able to perform xxx task (that no one really uses".
It's that kind of compromise and understanding of the player-base that could really turn around SE's MMOs.

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For all the good it does the game! lol

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You're clutching at straws now, the forums are a fantastic addition.

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Originally Posted by Vesperia

He didn't "sell you an unfinished product", SE did that.

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I'll give you that, but at the same time he was the reason a lot of things happened that people complained about:

-Surplus
-Market Wards (I know it's a 50/50, but still)
-No traditional FF classes/Lack of uniqeness for each class
-Making DoL/DoHs classes that can participate in the main story
-Poorly optimized game that require a ton of system resources
-Bad control/button scheme
-Laggy UI due to it being server side instead of client side

All of these things (outside of the optimized game, but I'll get to that in a bit) were part of Tanaka's vision and in no way some kind of accident. So I really don't see why people are trying to call the guy a genious for all of that crap.

As for the optimized part, let's face it: XIV could have been a lot less demanding on system resources, however due to Tanaka refusing to listen to people (Which he has a good track record of) do you really think he'd even give 2 sh*ts about the system if he was still the head honcho for the game?

Tanaka recognised those issues just as much as you did. But unlike you, Tanaka was under pressure to release early and so couldnt just hold back on release to fix them

I'd like to see actual proof of that. Since removing Surplus sure doesn't seem like it'd be that hard to do.

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Originally Posted by Corrderio

I'd like to see actual proof of that. Since removing Surplus sure doesn't seem like it'd be that hard to do.

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What's wrong with surplus?

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Originally Posted by Vesperia

I'm just trying to make Tanaka not feel so bad, and let him know that there are still people who appreciate his work and know it's not his fault the game is bad, even though he did the noble thing and took full responsibility.

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Tanaka will prolly never know about this thread cause like in alpha and beta he NEVER read and NEVER cared about forums.

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Originally Posted by Vesperia

What's wrong with surplus?

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Other than the fact that I've played LNC only 3 days in the last 30 and I'm already at about 40-50% surplus? >_>

ITT: LEAVE TANAKA ALONE!!! ; ;

http://jamiedubs.com/fuckflickr/data...tney-alone.jpg

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Originally Posted by Ilean

His vision was worthless

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How can you call his vision worthless when you don't know what it was? Sounds like blind rage. Which has happened alot with this game.....

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LEAVE TANAKA ALONE!!! ; ;

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I think I'll pass.

hmmm says "Tanaka Appreciation Thread" not shit on man who no longer effects you. You kiddies need to grow up.

My respects to Tanaka I've enjoyed many a game due to your creative urges, more artists should follow your example and take risks instead of worshiping the almighty dollar. You got guts Tanaka.

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Originally Posted by Vesperia

All you guys are supposed to do is say thanks to Tanaka. Is that so hard?

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We're not supposed to do anything. Considering the course of the conversation, I'd say this is the part where 'you're supposed to' concede he really is totally out of touch with the MMO genre, and prety much led the game to the state it's in now.

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What's wrong with surplus?

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Good lord, not even going to bother anymore, the white-knighting is too much.

It's funny how Vesperia wants an answer (with a topic redirection) on why it sucks which is most complete and comprehensive, but nobody is gonna tell her =D

I neither know why, but know this: Yoshi-P said he was gonna get rid of it.

Dont care much for Tanaka, he got what he deserved. Made a game for himself ignoring everyone elses opinion.

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Originally Posted by viion

Dont care much for Tanaka, he got what he deserved. Made a game for himself ignoring everyone elses opinion.

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As it turns out, this is not an uncommon practice for success.

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Originally Posted by Walt Disney

I am not influenced by the techniques or fashions of any other motion picture company.

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Originally Posted by Walt Disney

I do not like to repeat successes, I like to go on to other things.

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I still hold the belief that if his vision was complete, it would have been a completely different story. But he's gone now, and we should encourage Yoshi to make a game we can all love and still distinctly feel Final Fantasy. When the battle system is done, he may move on to work on things that Tanaka would have liked to introduce, or maybe he'll add something completely different. It's still too early to tell.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

As it turns out, this is not an uncommon practice for success.




I still hold the belief that if his vision was complete, it would have been a completely different story. But he's gone now, and we should encourage Yoshi to make a game we can all love and still distinctly feel Final Fantasy. When the battle system is done, he may move on to work on things that Tanaka would have liked to introduce, or maybe he'll add something completely different. It's still too early to tell.

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Dude i don't mean to be rude or anything but you don't make much sense. How could the battle system have been more completed then it is now? The game mechanics are pretty much done and are complete in regards to his vision. He wanted it to be this way. But in the end it just sucks and it's boring.

And if you're going to give me any arguments about how he was going to complete it, keep in mind that nothing can be changed! We are talking about completing a system here so it's all about adding stuff. The spells suck visually and they suck in practice too. Every ability feels the same to me. Whatever ability i chose to use feels the same... it's like it doesn't matter much what i do. No real buffs too in this game... combat involves very little strategy.

The fatigue system is horrible and looking at all the threads around you will see how the majority hates it. Even before the game was out and Tanaka was discussing the fatigue system, everyone was against it. Guess what? he decided to add it anyways and people hate it.

The armory system... pick and chose every ability you want across the board and make yourself a custom class. The idea at it's core is interesting but the execution is really bad. He should have really seen this coming. Doing that will result in all classes being the same in the end. He should have added some restrictions and don't tell me he was going to because that is CHANGE not COMPLETING something.

You don't come up with a broken game based on your bad decisions and then say well it's incomplete. Not it's not incomplete. The only incomplete things about what he tried to do is the content and he was so sure that we would end up enjoying all his systems once we got dungeons and stuff to do in game.

Do you think so many people would have voted for an extreme change if all that needed to be done is tweakings to complete Tanaka's work? SE are not idiots, they would rather tweaks stuff quickly then change everything start from scratch, which takes months and generates hate from the community because of the long wait time.

Tanaka screwed up. HE thinks so himself, SE thinks so, Yoshi-p does too and all the community(leave a few here and there) think so too. People make mistakes, we are human and so is Tanaka, He did a mistake and he payed for it.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

As it turns out, this is not an uncommon practice for success.

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Tanaka could possibly be a Disney, and fail just as much as he succeeds, learning from each failure and applying it to his later work. However, he could just as easily be a George Lucas, putting out passable products when he's listening to others, utter shit when he's listening only to himself, and learning absolutely nothing along the way. Both methods will make you seem successful; only one will make you look like a genius.

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Originally Posted by Quanta

Tanaka could possibly be a Disney, and fail just as much as he succeeds, learning from each failure and applying it to his later work. However, he could just as easily be a George Lucas, putting out passable products when he's listening to others, utter shit when he's listening only to himself, and learning absolutely nothing along the way. Both methods will make you seem successful; only one will make you look like a genius.

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Because he wanted to make something different then FFXI he did not apply anything he learned from that game. Because he wanted to be different from WOW, he did use anything from that game either.. even stuff that are common in all mmorpgs.

It's like if Honda tried to make a car but not use anything the other car companies do. How impossible is it to do that? And even if you succeed somehow... would you even call it a car?

Love how this Thread turned from appreciating Tanaka to the "Tanaka or Yoshi" Thread lol *giggles a little* >.>

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Originally Posted by Corrderio

I'll give you that, but at the same time he was the reason a lot of things happened that people complained about:

-Surplus
-Market Wards (I know it's a 50/50, but still)
-No traditional FF classes/Lack of uniqeness for each class
-Making DoL/DoHs classes that can participate in the main story
-Poorly optimized game that require a ton of system resources
-Bad control/button scheme
-Laggy UI due to it being server side instead of client side

All of these things (outside of the optimized game, but I'll get to that in a bit) were part of Tanaka's vision and in no way some kind of accident. So I really don't see why people are trying to call the guy a genious for all of that crap.

As for the optimized part, let's face it: XIV could have been a lot less demanding on system resources, however due to Tanaka refusing to listen to people (Which he has a good track record of) do you really think he'd even give 2 sh*ts about the system if he was still the head honcho for the game?

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1.) Surplus is only a problem for people who only want to play one or two classes all the time in order to rush to max rank.

2.) The market wards in their current form work very well.

3.) The goal of the system (in my opinion) is for you to make your own class, not have the game define it for you.

4.) DoL/DoHs participating in the main story? See #2. We're not defined by our classes or discipline.

5.) Agreed, to a point. I've played games that were much worse in this regard.

6.) I've never had an issue with the controls.

7.) Agreed 100%.

That being said, people need to realize that Tanaka has simply been selected to be SE's scapegoat for this situation. The issue was simply that he was given a deadline that he simply couldn't meet. The real fault with this lies with SE's upper management who were arrogant enough to think that the game could stand on brand name alone at launch to give the developers enough time to finish it while selling customers what was essentially an alpha product.