Rphys: why slow walk casts (ala pvp) aren't a solution

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Originally Posted by Lyth

It's worth noting that the Magical Ranged DPS role is not called 'Caster'. It's called Magical Ranged DPS. Casts can be found on pretty much all other roles. All of the arguments against occasional casts or walking casts on Physical Ranged DPS just boil down to personal preference.

Discussing balance around 'difficulty' is subjective. There are different things that each role values in terms of 'challenge.' I think Snow makes a good point, in that Physical Ranged doesn't really have an identity currently. It's not really a 'support role', because even the likes of PCT has equivalent utility. It's not a 'damage role' either, 1% buff aside.

I can appreciate that any change to design direction is going to be met with resistance and naysayers. But there needs to be one in place for 8.0 at the latest. Otherwise, they might as well merge down Ranged into a single category and just standardize people replacing the Physical Ranged slot with a Magical Ranged.

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Yes they should, the idea of a support DPS is stupid as the whole concept is legacy design there should be Healers Tanks Melee DPS and Ranged DPS some ranged dps has cast times some dont.
(MCH should still be without same with BRD and DNC).

They all should have the potential to roughly do the same amount of personal damage, tuned around if they bring raid buffs or not.
As someone who brings massive raid buffs should probably have a bit lower personal damage and those who don't should naturally be a bit higher to keep things fair.

Jobs can still have job flavor using unique animations and spell effects without gimping / inflating their damage, job "identity" should not shaft their potential output be it raw numbers or due to gimmics.

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Originally Posted by mallleable

I did say dance steps are a pseudo caster mechanic. While you can still freely move around, they do ask you to intentionally take downtime in your rotation in exchange for high burst damage. The same logic applies to NIN Mudras as well. And yeah, not being able to cancel walking casts is a bit of a problem, but it's a mechanical problem, and not a job design problem, and so it could easily be developed. It's just a wrinkle that needs to be ironed out.

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I'm still not really sure how walking casts would prove that different from normal casts in effect though. It's casting, it prevents you to move enough to complete mechanics and you have to find instants casts or ways to play around it. Unless you make the speed debuff outright ignorable but then what would be the point of them?

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Originally Posted by Lyth

It's worth noting that the Magical Ranged DPS role is not called 'Caster'. It's called Magical Ranged DPS. Casts can be found on pretty much all other roles. All of the arguments against occasional casts or walking casts on Physical Ranged DPS just boil down to personal preference.

Discussing balance around 'difficulty' is subjective. There are different things that each role values in terms of 'challenge.' I think Snow makes a good point, in that Physical Ranged doesn't really have an identity currently. It's not really a 'support role', because even the likes of PCT has equivalent utility. It's not a 'damage role' either, 1% buff aside.

I can appreciate that any change to design direction is going to be met with resistance and naysayers. But there needs to be one in place for 8.0 at the latest. Otherwise, they might as well merge down Ranged into a single category and just standardize people replacing the Physical Ranged slot with a Magical Ranged.

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I don't think anybody disagrees that rphys has lost all identity by now and shares a similar diagnostic.

I don't want them however to dumb down the game anymore by making jobs even more homogenous but turning everybody into various shades of a caster. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind some casts like iajutsus on certain moves, but that's hardly gonna change anything.

We need to draw a clear line between occasional casts like that and casts on the actual filler/combos. That's two completely different worlds.

Some people want to fix the damage issue by introducing heavy cast times like it used to be in HW/SB, I want to fix it by refocusing on the core of the role, which includes the rotation styles and their intricacies, that's about it. If anything the fact that the very idea of cast times is extremely divisive or outright not shared at all by the actual rphys mains (but who knows I don't have a survey?), is pretty telling of what direction they shouldn't go for.

I wouldn't mind one of bards songs making the filler deal more damage but have a PvP cast, would be a fun add to something like Army's since Mages and Wanderers have a more engaging effect on your DPS.

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Originally Posted by Valence

I'm still not really sure how walking casts would prove that different from normal casts in effect though. It's casting, it prevents you to move enough to complete mechanics and you have to find instants casts or ways to play around it. Unless you make the speed debuff outright ignorable but then what would be the point of them?

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Again, it's an aesthetic/game feel difference which is fine actually. It's the difference between taking the time to aim a weapon vs. taking the time to cast a spell, and translating those ideas into job mechanics. Both incur a brief moment of downtime, but I would think that if one is dexterous enough, one would be able to think on their feet while using a ranged weapon while spell casting requires one to stay focused for longer. And yeah, actions that increase movement speed can mitigate some of the movement penalties of walking casts which adds a layer of strategy on how to maintain uptime in a fight which isn't really present in the magical ranged role. On a strategic level there would be a difference.

And, really, and truly all fights are designed with caster uptime in mind. Some fights might be trickier than others, but there are no fights where a caster cannot resolve them. The movement restriction is not a problem.

We tried Cast timers in HW 3.XX and people hated it.

https://youtu.be/kbvv0rgrT4k?si=5gyEtyVk82rxg-B-&t=86

The reality is the job system as a whole needs a redesign for 2026

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

We tried Cast timers in HW 3.XX and people hated it.

https://youtu.be/kbvv0rgrT4k?si=5gyEtyVk82rxg-B-&t=86

The reality is the job system as a whole needs a redesign for 2026

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I mean, not saying the Wanderer’s Minuet cast times did work, but I’m pretty sure there’s a literal universe between them and what people are actually for lol.

Heavensward literally turned every existing Bard weaponskill into full casts lazily overlaid over an rng-contingent, proc heavy skill set that already featured cast times on the songs themselves. I think they made them 1.5s at some point during the expansion, but even then you could get like 1 proc off between casts while Bloodletter sat there resetting during your casts, laughing at you because charges didn’t exist back then.

What people are asking for is the PvP style 1.5s walking-casts, which were designed specifically the PvP toolkit in mind (which is probably the only reason it actually works). I think when people are asking for ‘cast times’, they’re referring to these specific ones and for the necessary adjustments around them to be made as necessary. Nobody wants to go back to Heavensward Bard, not even me (I’d take the song cast times back though lol)

I mean, I think they’d be kinda cool in PvE. But would they actually work? All signs point to a hard no lol

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Originally Posted by Connor

I mean, I think they’d be kinda cool in PvE. But would they actually work? All signs point to a hard no lol

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What signs? The only reasons I can see that could prevent them being added to PVE is a lack of vision/imagination or an unwillingness to make them work. They aren't like the one shot K.O. moves or the other broken mechanics that are present in PVP, they are just simply a new type of action mechanic.

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Originally Posted by mallleable

Again, it's an aesthetic/game feel difference which is fine actually. It's the difference between taking the time to aim a weapon vs. taking the time to cast a spell, and translating those ideas into job mechanics. Both incur a brief moment of downtime, but I would think that if one is dexterous enough, one would be able to think on their feet while using a ranged weapon while spell casting requires one to stay focused for longer. And yeah, actions that increase movement speed can mitigate some of the movement penalties of walking casts which adds a layer of strategy on how to maintain uptime in a fight which isn't really present in the magical ranged role. On a strategic level there would be a difference.

And, really, and truly all fights are designed with caster uptime in mind. Some fights might be trickier than others, but there are no fights where a caster cannot resolve them. The movement restriction is not a problem.

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It essentially boils down to player's preferences. I am not interested in uptime considerations, DDR mechanics and whatnot, and that's why I play rphys.

Also what that person said above, it's already been tried in HW and people hated it. This is not very different in reality.

Yeah, slow casting or any casting is a no-go for me, my brain sees it as downtime or delay due to a bad connection it's just no.
No matter how long or short the cast is it completely clashes with the reason I play MCH.

All instant casts almost no downtime and rapid game play adding cast times will completely kill the flow of the job.
I love how the single target MCH plays keep it as is, just up the damage.
Maybe add some more robots for fun and expand our abilities to work better in AOE, as our AOE gameplay is dog water.

So other than our low damage and jank AOE, MCH is damn near perfect in single target, and I would not want it any other way

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Originally Posted by mallleable

What signs? The only reasons I can see that could prevent them being added to PVE is a lack of vision/imagination or an unwillingness to make them work. They aren't like the one shot K.O. moves or the other broken mechanics that are present in PVP, they are just simply a new type of action mechanic.

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PVP walking wouldn't work in PVE because of one key factor; interrupting cast time. As some who plays caster this is one key feature that is need in PvE content. If you are targeted by mechanic and stuck in a walking animation, you're going to get hit were as Caster stop casting and can run out of the way.

RPhy is in a tough spot because they lost their purpose. The main job was to restore TP/MP and buff. SB killed that concept and they never fixed the problem. Everyone job buffs based on a skill now and RPhy got the short end of the stick with movement tax.