Dreamers Wish List

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Originally Posted by Gemina

It's up to your party to give you a reason to use them. Your GCD heals are there to still give you a healing resource should you exhaust your oGCD heals on the derpy. It also shouldn't have to be said that some healers require for them to use their GCD heals to build a resource (Toxicon, Misery), or execute one of their mechanics (Spreadlo, Horoscope). Please stop playing this trite game of pretending these situations don't exist.

Also, you don't have a DPS rotation as a healer. You have somewhat of an opener (particularly on AST). Every healer has at least five offensive skills, and you should be using them. You have a filler spell, and the rest are situational. These situations are, but not limited to: you're on the move, you use it on CD, timer needs to be refreshed, resource dump. This requires management.

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Yup let us defend the anemic healer gameplay, and ignore at the core that for the most part we spend most our time spamming 1 DPS skill because anything more would be far too complex. You are right now calling our spam our dps skill a rotation was far too generous and wrong on my part. A guild mate also told me something similar, play with bad players if you want to use more gcds on heals. Idk call me crazy just does not sound like fun, I personally rather have meaningful healer gameplay or at the very least a more complex dps kit as a healer. Sure week one clears are fun to heal and ultimate prog was a blast to heal through. I get the nature of scripted fights lead to a mapping out of gameplay and if that is how it needs to be then would be nice if they just gave healers a more complex dps kit so we have something else to optimize and strive for while also keeping the party alive.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

And when was that proven? Are you thinking of P8S where they already admitted they made a mistake setting the boss HP value in the first place because when they do it, it's really a guess on their part based on past testing experience?

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No, it was mathematically proven for E8S. That was during ShB expansion. It was when someone asked to rebalance savage damage to not require healer DPS. In one of the posts, someone mentioned healer DPS was optional, but it was refuted. P8S is not the first instance of being unable to clear without healer DPS, but P8S is more of a job balance issue. E8S was just mathematically impossible to clear without healer DPS due to the top DPS limit on release. I'll have to look through the threads since this was a super old one.

Edit: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...aler-dps/page6

I'm quite sure it came up multiple times in the healer forum discussions and other healer thread posts, but I'm honestly not in the mood to comb through over 300+ pages for a more detailed analysis breakdown. Though you can find plenty of people saying how healer DPS was already a thing way before E8S.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

I Every healer has at least five offensive skills, and you should be using them. You have a filler spell, and the rest are situational. These situations are, but not limited to: you're on the move, you use it on CD, timer needs to be refreshed, resource dump. This requires management.

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As for AST, I can only count 3: Malefic (ST), Gravity (AoE), Combust (DoT). Unless you count buffs as offensive skills rather than support skills and Macrocosmos as an offensive skill instead of a healing spell on a 120 cooldown, I can't figure out the other 2.

Is there like some sort of secret offensive skills that healers have that I haven't unlocked yet somehow? I'm genuinely curious and want to know if I've been actually missing out this entire time. Am I out of the loop or something? At this point, I'm just desperate for anything to break up the monotony.

Macrocosmos and Lord of Crowns both do dps. With Malefic, Combust, and Gravity, that makes 5.

Edit: Also Earthly Star. So 6, I guess.

• Unlock the glamour restrictions on all jobs. Leave artifact gears alone though, they can stay limited.
• Dye storage, like our shard/crystal/cluster storage.
• The ability to change to other DoH job(s) without having to exit the crafting log interface.
• The ability to use glamour plate to swap glamour when a duty is ready to commence.
• Giving healers their own gameplay loop in their downtime outside 1 button press for 80%+ of time. Or better yet, have one of the job designer play through MSQ as a hrothgar healer. No job swapping allowed. Instead of telling people to try healing, how about they try it out themself?

EDIT: On 2nd thought I'll leave the rest of the healer salt for relevant threads.

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Originally Posted by Bobby66

Yup let us defend the anemic healer gameplay, and ignore at the core that for the most part we spend most our time spamming 1 DPS skill because anything more would be far too complex. You are right now calling our spam our dps skill a rotation was far too generous and wrong on my part.

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See? This is what you guys do in order to try an establish an argument. You spin things around, and warp reality in a away that makes healing sound far worse than what it actually is. I did not ignore that there are situations where you are spamming your filler spell, and I specifically said that healers don't have a DPS rotation. I really hate repeating myself, and if this is the angle you are going to use then this conversation is already over.

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A guild mate also told me something similar, play with bad players if you want to use more gcds on heals. Idk call me crazy just does not sound like fun, I personally rather have meaningful healer gameplay or at the very least a more complex dps kit as a healer.

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This is also false. Players are humans, and humans make mistakes. This does not make them bad players. However healers who immediately deem other players as bad players because they have to toss them a GCD heal not only blatantly shows their toxicity and intolerance, but it also shows their inability to compromise. You might want to take this into consideration when it comes to having "meaningful healer gameplay"

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Sure week one clears are fun to heal and ultimate prog was a blast to heal through. I get the nature of scripted fights lead to a mapping out of gameplay and if that is how it needs to be then would be nice if they just gave healers a more complex dps kit so we have something else to optimize and strive for while also keeping the party alive.

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If you're doing Savage and Ultimate prog, you really need to realize something: not everyone participates in this content, and most players are nowhere near as good at the game as you are.

Does this make sense to you? Do you understand that the game does not revolve around you, or the small subset of players who actively engage in the game's toughest content? The only way DPS rotation will come to healers is if the floor raises, not when the ceiling shatters. If you really want it, then stop complaining, get your butt into prog, and help the healers who are struggling. Despite the "OMG 1 button rotation, healing sux, reeeee!" Most of the game's healers struggle to juggle this and healing requirements when there is threat level that requires them to do it. Even I can admit that I do not take AST into difficult content because I have to drop the cards completely when things heat up, and that means I am not playing optimally by giving DMG boosts every 30s.

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Originally Posted by AnotherPerson

Well, no. The part where they said they don't include healer DPS when setting boss HP values? That was already proven false when the top parsers who play perfectly in the encounter still cannot beat the boss before enrage because there's still a big HP gap that can only be met with healer DPS, regardless of how much more they try to optimize.

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The devs are probably going to have to revisit this at one point or another. Especially since they, themselves stated that the game's top players are much better at the game than they are. This was stated way back during HW, and there was a lot of problems with savage raiding back with Gordias and Midas iirc. I have never done current savage content, so there is a lot I am oblivious to when to comes to the values they set, and the struggles groups have with clears. But I am curious to see how these groups (including the dev team) performed, how much boss HP was left, how often they wiped to mechanics, etc. With P8S, I believe they stated something along the lines that they just added like 2% HP to the boss to compensate for the discrepancy between their skill and player skill. Nothing about not including healer DPS. So I'm over here thinking, "Where do you even get that 2%?" It was obviously a gross overestimation of player ability. If I was to go off of Barb EX which is the toughest content I currently try, I would say healers without question need to DPS to facilitate the clear. Required though? I am just not sure.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

white knight extraordinare rambling from Gemina as usual

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That's a lot of words to say "I am bad at the game".

There is a reason why you are only squealing about some mystical morals in General. The moment you show your nose in something like healer forums you get laughed out with factual arguments.

Even in reality the healer gameplay loop is anemic outside of very niche situations. Dismissing that point you do realize you are saying things must stay this way cause the general player base simply cannot handle anything more, and it is the job of the community the raise players skill level up so they can handle a more complex kit? As per your example about the skill floor, I never understood this.

Take your AST, you find it chaotic at times and I am sure many others also find it chaotic, it is also the case many others do not. Let me ask how does the average player suffer if they raise the ceiling? They do not have to reach the peak others even come close to clear they content they desire, they can choose to ignore the aspects of play they find stressful or complicated. Those who wish to get more out of healing role legitimately have very niche situations that push them and our general optimization while fun at the core just because a game of how few GCDs can I use on healing and how many more dps GCDs I can throw out. That is the goal / core gameplay loop of healing in FFXIV.

Your stance seems for more intolerant cause you are saying instead of giving players the option by doing top down balance we should leave the players that wish for more out if the role in the dust because some players find current healing gameplay loop engaging enough.

I get the whole idea of raising the floor, but that is a developers job not the communities. To raise the floor you need to increase general difficultly for normal content. Yet if you raise the ceiling you provide room for people.to.grow if those so desire while still allowing those to wish to stay a certain level the freedom to do so. Raising the ceiling offers choice while raising the floor forces everyone to get better. Which is more intolerant, and which shows a lack of compromise?

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Originally Posted by Gemina

See? This is what you guys do in order to try an establish an argument. You spin things around, and warp reality in a away that makes healing sound far worse than what it actually is. I did not ignore that there are situations where you are spamming your filler spell, and I specifically said that healers don't have a DPS rotation. I really hate repeating myself, and if this is the angle you are going to use then this conversation is already over.

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Dia Assize Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Dia Benison Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Assize Glare Glare Glare Plenary+Rapture Dia Glare Glare Glare Tetra Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Dia Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare.

Yum yum, it's SO fun. You guys just get it twisted and don't understand how fun spamming one spell hundreds and hundreds of time in an encounter is. You just don't understand the genius behind Square Enix's design. It's too 4d chess for you evil Savage raiders. How dare you ask for more to do in your downtime. Don't you know you might...offend a Sylphie? The nerve.

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Originally Posted by PirateRyanG

New team brought in.

Fresh blood.

Fire Yoshi-P. He has taken the game as far as he can.

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Okay I bite.

If that is the case, who would you bring in to replace Yoshi-P? So, you would fire the staff as well including Foxcon and Soken? What reason do you want him to be gone for? Believe me, I been here since 2014 and I can tell you I dont think there is not too many that can replace Yoshi-P (If he replaces a person like Hiromichi Tanaka and you can check out what he did in his career, like I say the list would be very very short) I would love for him to give up one of his positions and concrete on the other.

For the original question, I would unlock all of the glam (heck, you can make a questline out of that for the DOL/DOH and their contributions during the final days at the end of it, getting a glamour stone that can use for all equipment as long you have the level for it ), Add more flavor for the healers and other things.