Suggestion for Samurai

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Originally Posted by RileyNoxus

So I'm going to assume you have alts right? Because you only have drg unlocked for melee and only warrior high enough to bring into pvp

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Originally Posted by ShanaShirayuki

Nice non-argument. Clearly you have no idea what you're talking about; your lack of PvP experience matches your lack of reading comprehension.

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Nothing of substance and personal attacks. The good ol' FFXIV PvP forum experience at its finest.

How, pray tell, is DRG's playstyle anything remotely similar to GNB/WAR/PAL/DRK? Well, I guess if you had an answer, you would have said as much instead of going for the ad hominem approach. No reason to engage further with either of you.

As it ahs been said drg as no cc or stun adn you can guard our LB. so how is dragon super tanky and op again? now if i had all of my jumps and had multi charges on them and they gave you down for the count statutes for say 5 secs then we could maybe say drg is op and tanky.

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Originally Posted by Latarma

As it ahs been said drg as no cc or stun adn you can guard our LB. so how is dragon super tanky and op again? now if i had all of my jumps and had multi charges on them and they gave you down for the count statutes for say 5 secs then we could maybe say drg is op and tanky.

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Yeah, you don't have CC because you have the Ultimate CC... death. They nerfed the dragoon limit break instead of trying to fix it. The problem wasn't the damage it's that you can't see the damn thing or tell half the time which one is your team or an enemy team. A simple color swap would have done everything it needed.

Dragoon is pretty tanky to be fair. No other dps job can jump into the enemy team basically laugh off their damage then leave and continue to burst them from range.

I do think they should move away from the cast time melee on samurai. All it really does is create a massive gap between the skill floor and ceiling. You can see this when you play with/against good/bad samurai. Really good samurai are a massive threat, but there aren't that many of them running around.

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Originally Posted by Elfidan

Yeah, you don't have CC because you have the Ultimate CC... death. They nerfed the dragoon limit break instead of trying to fix it. The problem wasn't the damage it's that you can't see the damn thing or tell half the time which one is your team or an enemy team. A simple color swap would have done everything it needed.

Dragoon is pretty tanky to be fair. No other dps job can jump into the enemy team basically laugh off their damage then leave and continue to burst them from range.

I do think they should move away from the cast time melee on samurai. All it really does is create a massive gap between the skill floor and ceiling. You can see this when you play with/against good/bad samurai. Really good samurai are a massive threat, but there aren't that many of them running around.

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The strength of a drg lb is it forces people to either use a guard or take the damage or punishes people who already guarded. If you take a full power drg lb you are pretty much dead if you don't have an escape skill. Also the fact it comes up more often and it's kill potential is better than a samurai's lb Also don't forget you can't be targeted for up to 5 secs and if you hit a horrid roar after coming down you can tank all the damage coming to you

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Originally Posted by Geryth

Nothing of substance and personal attacks. The good ol' FFXIV PvP forum experience at its finest.

How, pray tell, is DRG's playstyle anything remotely similar to GNB/WAR/PAL/DRK? Well, I guess if you had an answer, you would have said as much instead of going for the ad hominem approach. No reason to engage further with either of you.

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I ask because looking at your character you don't even know how those jobs work yourself since you don't have them unlocked to being with. And to answer your question I know how the tanks work I'm actually good with them as the with the other jobs as well. So I'm talking from know how every job plays from in pvp granted I wouldn't bring them all into ranked myself for the benifet I'm not going to be better than someone who plays just that job up in crystal

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Originally Posted by RileyNoxus

The strength of a drg lb is it forces people to either use a guard or take the damage or punishes people who already guarded. If you take a full power drg lb you are pretty much dead if you don't have an escape skill. Also the fact it comes up more often and it's kill potential is better than a samurai's lb Also don't forget you can't be targeted for up to 5 secs and if you hit a horrid roar after coming down you can tank all the damage coming to you

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Not sure what point you're trying to make here. Dragoon Limit break was cut back pretty substantially which was dumb because it can be guarded or ran from. It doesn't kill anyone at full hp anymore not even black mage. Samurai limit break is a two-step process which counter plays many other two step attacks. It's super easy to land if you are paying attention to what people are pressing. The samurai limit break is fine as is in conflict. You can't always count on escaping after using a dragoon limit break. If I see the marker, I'm already hovering over my crowd control button.

Again, casting bar melee is a terrible idea.

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Originally Posted by RileyNoxus

I ask because looking at your character you don't even know how those jobs work

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You don't need to be in the driver's seat of every single job to have a sense of how they play or to know the basic roles of a job type or what kind of abilities enable certain styles of play. A couple hundred CC games teaches you a lot about the play style of each job both as enemies and teammates.

Notice I'm not the one who asserted that SAM should be played more like a tank, I only chimed in the rebuke the notion that DRG is a choice for a tank-style of play. It decidedly is not. And for that assertion I do in fact have the driver's seat experience. Regardless, access to a stun automatically opens up SAM to use it for a variety of purposes - peeling for a teammate getting focused or chased, securing a kill by denying recuperate/guard, zoning enemies out of pushing the crystal, trapping enemies in environmental hazards etc. That makes SAM way more flexible than DRG as far as how they can enable their teammates, and is a major reason it shouldn't be doing as much damage as some of the other jobs.

Might be a useless suggestion, but I'm going to put it out there anyway.

Mineuchi offers stun. Yet I overlooked the part where even if the stun can be negated the ability itself ignores guard. Why not give it a buff to where it's dealing 10% max hp instead of 10% current hp?

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Originally Posted by Mistress_Irika

Might be a useless suggestion, but I'm going to put it out there anyway.

Mineuchi offers stun. Yet I overlooked the part where even if the stun can be negated the ability itself ignores guard. Why not give it a buff to where it's dealing 10% max hp instead of 10% current hp?

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Not a bad start but I think they would just make it a set potency then that if anything. But overall all Sam is an all in job but lacks the defensives and life steal to stay in. It's like a horrible mix of skirmisher without the damage to back it up and a tank without the ability to stick in the fight and do much for long. If they want Sam to be a fake tank it needs life steal with chiten but to be a skirmisher it needs the ability to do massive burst in a short time

While I agree with various points in the thread to the point it may be a bit much to list every single one of them, I'd like to clarify what I meant earlier citing Samurai as a "pseudo tank".

When I define a tank, I define them by their access of crowd control abilities or alternate peeling abilities. In the case of Samurai, this means their access to stun [Mineuchi] and bind [Hyosetsu] as their available interuption/peeling tools. The fact it has [Hissatsu: Chiten] and lifesteal via [Oka] is just some level of tankiness. Jobs in this category for me are:
[Tank] Paladin, Warrior
[DPS] Samurai

Being "tanky" does not automatically define a tank, pseudo or real deal - being "tanky" while being a good DPS means you are essentially a Bruiser. You go in, do the hurt and either hold the ground or bail if you fail, but you have limited or no crowd control/peeling tools. Jobs in this category are:
[DPS] Dragoon, Reaper, Monk
[Tank] Dark Knight, Gunbreaker

Short: tanky =/= Tank, but a Tank generally is tanky.