Not Happy With The New Changes

I'm personally glad with the changes, especially the RNG removal

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Originally Posted by JonBigwood

Yes, we'll have to wait and see. They said leveling up would be easier. Also there will be very difficult crafts so that people that get the best gear and melds have some satisfaction.
I hope the cry babies don't make us get very difficult crafts (for very desirable items) on which we lose extra expensive mats a few times until we succeed because of RNG. People complained about raids being too easy, then a difficult raid comes, then a ton of raiders quit because it is too difficult for them. We'll see where the difficulty is in the new difficult to craft items to come.

The fact that there are less ability slots needed on the bar is a good thing, there were too many. There is a total change, we'll have to learn how to use abilities again and adapt to the new situation.

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“Cry babies “ huh, lol.

Ignoring the passive aggressive behavior, you clearly did not read the Dengeki interview with Yoshida carefully. He said endgame recipes will require a proc to complete. In other words, they will not be easy to do, they’ll be RNG dependent. I’m not making this up. He literally said it’s required.

Also, nobody is going to complain about crafting this time...at least not the hardcore or vet crafters. This was desired since 4.0 ruined crafting with prudent touch. Desirable items being locked behind some sort of difficulty is what’s needed. Badly. It shouldn’t be like it is now. Where you can just arbitrarily craft anything you want with no consequences...that’s silly and ridiculous.

By the way, my previous post was a false alarm apparently. I thought endgame crafting was ruined due to 100% guaranteed moves...but endgame requiring PROCS, now? And they’ll likely raise stat requirements higher? That’s great.

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Originally Posted by JonBigwood

I hope the cry babies don't make us get very difficult crafts (for very desirable items)

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That's the most priceless line I've read in a while. Cheers for the laugh.

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Originally Posted by CookiesNCreams

“Cry babies “ huh, lol.

Ignoring the passive aggressive behavior, you clearly did not read the Dengeki interview with Yoshida carefully. He said endgame recipes will require a proc to complete. In other words, they will not be easy to do, they’ll be RNG dependent. I’m not making this up. He literally said it’s required.

Also, nobody is going to complain about crafting this time...at least not the hardcore or vet crafters. This was desired since 4.0 ruined crafting with prudent touch. Desirable items being locked behind some sort of difficulty is what’s needed. Badly. It shouldn’t be like it is now. Where you can just arbitrarily craft anything you want with no consequences...that’s silly and ridiculous.

By the way, my previous post was a false alarm apparently. I thought endgame crafting was ruined due to 100% guaranteed moves...but endgame requiring PROCS, now? And they’ll likely raise stat requirements higher? That’s great.

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Why is RNG == difficulty?

If I don't get the procs I need, that's not difficulty, it's just bad luck. If those procs are required to complete the synth, then getting them or not is not a matter of player skill or responding to anything.. it's just a matter of a dice roll.

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Originally Posted by Callinon

Why is RNG == difficulty?

If I don't get the procs I need, that's not difficulty, it's just bad luck. If those procs are required to complete the synth, then getting them or not is not a matter of player skill or responding to anything.. it's just a matter of a dice roll.

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Their entire crafting system seems to be just math and equations (in terms of code, anyway) and there doesn’t seem to be any technically possible way to make it skill based. That is kind of annoying to be honest...but, they choose to make endgame harder, and normal recipes easy still. I honestly see no problem with that. That’s good.

I agree that RNG is not really “hard” since it’s random. But the only way they can make it “hard” is by adding RNG, because I doubt they are going to re-code so many variables in the crafting system. Why do I doubt it? Because they went back to rng again. They didn’t go the skill route. So, logically, that tells you the only way to make it “hard” is by adding rng again.

To me, the answer is simple. If you’re too afraid to take the risk of losing expensive mats or you can’t be bothered to actually think about what you’re doing during an endgame craft, then quite frankly, I don’t think you should be doing endgame. You should stick to normal recipes. Which, there’s plenty of normal recipes that can be profitable. Yoshida is a good guy for listening to hardcore and vet crafters this time, I honestly didn’t think he would do that. :)

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Originally Posted by CookiesNCreams

Their entire crafting system seems to be just math and equations (in terms of code, anyway) and there doesn’t seem to be any technically possible way to make it skill based. That is kind of annoying to be honest...but, they choose to make endgame harder, and normal recipes easy still. I honestly see no problem with that. That’s good.

I agree that RNG is not really “hard” since it’s random. But the only way they can make it “hard” is by adding RNG, because I doubt they are going to re-code so many variables in the crafting system. Why do I doubt it? Because they went back to rng again. They didn’t go the skill route. So, logically, that tells you the only way to make it “hard” is by adding rng again.

To me, the answer is simple. If you’re too afraid to take the risk of losing expensive mats or you can’t be bothered to actually think about what you’re doing during an endgame craft, then quite frankly, I don’t think you should be doing endgame. You should stick to normal recipes. Which, there’s plenty of normal recipes that can be profitable. Yoshida is a good guy for listening to hardcore and vet crafters this time, I honestly didn’t think he would do that. :)

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Ok but you didn't answer the question. You're looking for skill-based crafting, and I've seen you in other threads saying that just adding RNG isn't adding skill. I agree with that. But then what?

My problem here is that you seem to be arguing both sides at the same time:
- Adding RNG doesn't make crafting more skillful
- Adding RNG adds difficulty and skill to crafting

Which is it?

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Originally Posted by Callinon

Ok but you didn't answer the question. You're looking for skill-based crafting, and I've seen you in other threads saying that just adding RNG isn't adding skill. I agree with that. But then what?

My problem here is that you seem to be arguing both sides at the same time:
- Adding RNG doesn't make crafting more skillful
- Adding RNG adds difficulty and skill to crafting

Which is it?

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RNG is not skill.
RNG is, however, difficult, in its own way.

You don’t know if you’ll be lucky or not when competing in a contest. Why? Because there are other competitors better than you. That makes it difficult to win the contest.

You don’t know if you’ll be lucky or not when crafting endgame. Why? Because the procs are not guaranteed to happen. You could fail it. That makes it difficult.

The term “difficult” is really easy to understand. Not sure why there’s so many people trying to uncover some sort of “secret” to it. dif·fi·cult
/ˈdifəkəlt/
adjective
needing much effort or skill to accomplish, deal with, or understand.

That is the definition of the word difficult. Crafting needed much effort to accomplish, therefore it was difficult. To argue otherwise is nonsense, that is the definition of the word. Did it take skill? No. Did it take understanding? Only if you wanted to improve your HQ chances. But it was difficult because of the large amount of time/effort needed.

But now? Buy a few NQ materials for like 20,000 gil on the market, click a one button macro you found online and bam, 100% guaranteed you get a piece of end game crafting gear that can be used by all crafting classes. A few minutes of effort right now get you what would have taken dozens of hours to get back then.

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Originally Posted by CookiesNCreams

RNG is not skill.
RNG is, however, difficult, in its own way.

You don’t know if you’ll be lucky or not when competing in a contest. Why? Because there are other competitors better than you. That makes it difficult to win the contest.

You don’t know if you’ll be lucky or not when crafting endgame. Why? Because the procs are not guaranteed to happen. You could fail it. That makes it difficult.

The term “difficult” is really easy to understand. Not sure why there’s so many people trying to uncover some sort of “secret” to it. dif·fi·cult
/ˈdifəkəlt/
adjective
needing much effort or skill to accomplish, deal with, or understand.

That is the definition of the word difficult. Crafting needed much effort to accomplish, therefore it was difficult. To argue otherwise is nonsense, that is the definition of the word. Did it take skill? No. Did it take understanding? Only if you wanted to improve your HQ chances. But it was difficult because of the large amount of time/effort needed.

But now? Buy a few NQ materials for like 20,000 gil on the market, click a one button macro you found online and bam, 100% guaranteed you get a piece of end game crafting gear that can be used by all crafting classes. A few minutes of effort right now get you what would have taken dozens of hours to get back then.

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Hmm, so I'm reading your definition here and it doesn't mention luck. I believe my concern was that RNG is luck and has nothing to do with skill or effort. Unless your definition of difficulty just means bashing your face into something over and over again until it happens to come out just right irrespective of anything you actually did. That's not difficulty, that's luck.

luck
/lək/
noun
success or failure apparently brought by chance rather than through one's own actions.

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Originally Posted by CookiesNCreams

RNG is not skill.
RNG is, however, difficult, in its own way.

But now? Buy a few NQ materials for like 20,000 gil on the market, click a one button macro you found online and bam, 100% guaranteed you get a piece of end game crafting gear that can be used by all crafting classes. A few minutes of effort right now get you what would have taken dozens of hours to get back then.

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I think you forgot why everyone hates RnG though.


Crafter A crafts 20 hrs a week and after a month has nothing to show for it. - well and good, it's "difficult".


And then Crafter B logs in, crafts for 2 hrs a week and in a month, has 3 or 4 of the super rare item and you can't convince them it was ever difficult. It wasn't for them because RnG.

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Originally Posted by Callinon

Hmm, so I'm reading your definition here and it doesn't mention luck. I believe my concern was that RNG is luck and has nothing to do with skill or effort. Unless your definition of difficulty just means bashing your face into something over and over again until it happens to come out just right irrespective of anything you actually did. That's not difficulty, that's luck.

luck
/lək/
noun
success or failure apparently brought by chance rather than through one's own actions.

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If you’re wanting something...and that something is gated by, I dunno, luck? That means it’s difficult because you have something in your way. Easiest way I can explain it to you.