All that BLU hate is just absurd

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Originally Posted by Tharnor

Read the whole post instead of taking one line out of context

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Yes, it perfectly describe your whole post.

Your ideas would in fact just be considered by many as rehashing old content... or are just what each expansion has been offering us (duty action, new markers and debuffs...)

edit : how bad or bland are your ideas : http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post4824544

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Originally Posted by Ceanaorsa

But what people complains, and do suggestion about is not this. it is the fact, the confirmed fact, that the blue mage is not a job, but a side content.
The fact we cant use it for PvP or raid content.

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And then again, who told you the devs had to deliver a regular job at patch 4.5 ?
They want to experiment - you don't like it, then yell at them or unsub to show your miscontent - in the future, they won't dare proposing you something different and will offer you the same thing everytime...
Yes it's side content, as useful as Lord of Verminion, yes. But it's still content, and some people will enjoy it.

Regular jobs are coming at 5.0, too bad for those who (wrongly) expected BLU to be one.

My biggest problem with it is no duty finder. For people who have a close circle of friends they play with it’s all good, but I’m not about to sit and wait in party finder for strangers to take pity on me and run old content that has no benefit for them. And that’ll be even worse as time goes on and BLU isn’t the shiny new thing as there won’t potentially be a bunch of blue mages in pf looking to team up together. I’m perfectly willing to wait and see how it turns out, and what, if any changes they will make. But if it’s a situation where you basically can’t sccess most of the job without a pre made group, then it’ll just be something that’s not for me. And yeah, for me something that’s a real job that I can play anywhere would have been a lot more desirable.

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Originally Posted by Tempest222

My biggest problem with it is no duty finder. For people who have a close circle of friends they play with it’s all good, but I’m not about to sit and wait in party finder for strangers to take pity on me and run old content that has no benefit for them. And that’ll be even worse as time goes on and BLU isn’t the shiny new thing as there won’t potentially be a bunch of blue mages in pf looking to team up together. I’m perfectly willing to wait and see how it turns out, and what, if any changes they will make. But if it’s a situation where you basically can’t sccess most of the job without a pre made group, then it’ll just be something that’s not for me. And yeah, for me something that’s a real job that I can play anywhere would have been a lot more desirable.

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But there will be other blue mages on party finder, as well as everyone who's already on party finder running old content for achievements or mounts or other collectibles, and if blue mage is going to be as OP as they say it is, then im sure those farming parties would love to have one with them.

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Originally Posted by Moogly

All that said, you still haven't played BLU yet...
People are making suggestions... on what ? 40 minutes of slides and a video ?
That's why it feels so absurd to me - talking about making something better... when no one has even played it yet...

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It's a concept known as inference. It's one of the greatest things our brains is capable of, the capacity to predict things based around precedent and logic. Meanwhile, people seem to want to defend the fact we're getting a job that's not a job by simply saying "We haven't tried it yet". Just like how I don't need to drink a bottle of bleach to know its a bad idea, I don't need to play BLU to know that a job that won't ever be able to access current content is a bad idea.

And lets not kid ourselves, the devs have a very long precedent of implementing side content to at best mixed reviews, and typically dead on arrival or close to it. See: Diadem 1 and 2, Lords of Verminion, half the Gold Saucer, half the PVP maps, combat guildeleves, Eureka (which is only survived by the fact it has relic tied to it, but has been a major point of contention due to how uninspired it is).

So when they say BLU is going to be its own side content instead of a fully fleshed out job, of course we're not expecting it to be done right to begin with, while we lose out on an iconic and fan-favorite job for everything else in the game.

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Originally Posted by Tempest222

My biggest problem with it is no duty finder. For people who have a close circle of friends they play with it’s all good, but I’m not about to sit and wait in party finder for strangers to take pity on me and run old content that has no benefit for them. And that’ll be even worse as time goes on and BLU isn’t the shiny new thing as there won’t potentially be a bunch of blue mages in pf looking to team up together. I’m perfectly willing to wait and see how it turns out, and what, if any changes they will make. But if it’s a situation where you basically can’t sccess most of the job without a pre made group, then it’ll just be something that’s not for me. And yeah, for me something that’s a real job that I can play anywhere would have been a lot more desirable.

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Again, it's making quite a lot of assumption before we even got anywhere.
I really don't think you'll depend on the pity of strangers to get grouped - I am pretty sure many people will be more than willing to do content with BLU in PF.
Don't think that PF is not for you, just try to get in some groups, it's not much different from matchmaking, especially for those low lvl content in which everyone is pretty much laid back and not tense as in a farm group.
As for the regular jobs we have them coming in less than a year - just be patient !

This is sounding a lot like the Eureka on release discussions already... Some people like it, some people hate it, and some people are telling others they can't hate it because they are being unreasonable and stuff.

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Originally Posted by Moogly

Broken expectations.

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I had no expectations, and I'm let down. I'd much rather a full job.

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Originally Posted by Moogly

We see rage thread, we see unsub thread, we see job reworking suggestion thread...

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Feedback. May not look like how you want it, but it's feedback none the less. I don't like the rage or "I'm going to unsub" threads any more than you do, but complaining about them only makes it worse because they start telling you that you are in the wrong because you can't tell them what they can or can't complain about.

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Originally Posted by Moogly

all about a piece of content that hasn't even been released.
People spent last months datamining every patch, each and every one building its own perfect fantasy of what a BLU should be.
It was more than obvious that SE was going to have a hard time pleasing everybody...

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Here's the thing about datamining. We can only do certain bits and pieces. It's impossible to get a full picture of it. What people thought BLU might be has nothing to do with the datamining. And yes, they can't please everybody. There are still some people who believe Sam and Ninja should be tanks. Can we do anything about them? Not really. But we can just shrug and say "Eh, kinda late to expect that now."

And yeah, people can complain about content that's not released yet. Because sometimes we're given enough information to know we won't like it. See Metal Gear Survive and how it was nothing that the fans wanted.

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Originally Posted by Moogly

Consider this :

SE didn't have to do it - YoshiP even was asked about BLU in the past, and he clearly said that knowing how BLU worked in previous FF, it would be hard to adapt it to a ffxiv job.
So I believe they did BLU the way they did it so that it would call to hardcore FF fans, by staying true to its nature. It wasn't aimed at raid fans, who already have plenty of combat class available - and will get even more with Shadowbringers (my guess is 2 : Gunblader/tank, and Dancer/healer)

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SE doesn't have to do anything with this game. So? This point makes no sense. And adding that in, I'd like to point out SMN how it worked in previous games wouldn't work in FFXIV. But it doesn't work like it does in other games. It works differently.

You can call it good in your opinion. But that's not how most of the people who are complaining are seeing it. And that's fine, it's a difference of opinion, we don't need people telling others "Oh well it's not how it's going to work" because we already know that.

And the fact of the matter is, there's a lot of people, like me, who like playing a huge variety of different classes regardless of level. And the fact of the matter is, there are just as many of us who do that as people who just want to take one job to 70/80 and that's it and they're happy doing that. They wanted to do that with BLU and they can't now. That's fine for those people to voice their opinions.

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Originally Posted by Moogly

It's still a work in progress.
If it works well, who knows what the 4.5 BLU will evolve into.

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I could say the same for you. How do we know it won't be bad and that it will not be fun or that it will be good and fun? And when it's out and if it's bad for the people who are fans of BLU, will it then be "unjust hate"? Because I feel there will be people who like it and will say that when too. And it's fine on either side to say what you like and dislike.

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Originally Posted by Moogly

People also complain about monotony : it's always the same thing every patch, 4 boss, a dungeon, more MSQ... HoH is just PotD, Eureka is just Diadem....
Now we get something completely new... I won't say it's an innovation in itself, since BLU mechs have been there for a while, but they're bringing something new, at least in ffxiv. When people just spit at any new idea the devs offer us, it makes me wonder if those people really know what they want... So once in a while you want something different from raid, dungeons, trials... What is it ? What better things could the dev spend their time on ?

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First off, that's kind of mean to write off the "reworking" threads as "spitting at any new idea the devs offer us" because it's clear they love the groundwork and want to improve it, or at least that's the idea I get from some of the threads I've read. I will also say that jobs were never really a thing people had problems with outside of how all classes have the same 2.5 GCD with little variation and not too much differences in terms of how they play.

Also, saying "you don't know what you want" to a playerbase who knows somewhat what they wanted isn't really a good thing to say. As for your little "what could they be working on" thing, there's quite a lot! Just post a thread asking "what content do YOU want from this game?" and there will be hundreds of answers each with different ideas.

Quick question. The bold there about the mechanics already existing... are you talking about other games? Or FFXIV? If FFXIV, I'd like an example of that.

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Originally Posted by Moogly

And people say it's solo content in a mmo game. Yes, no raid or matchmaking, but you run dungeons with a premade right ? So just get in PF (guess it should work) or get some friends to play with you!
Don't you guys have guilds ?

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"you can just run dungeons with a premade, right?" and here's my problem with BLU. I don't have friends who enjoy doing content below level 70. And on top of that, the few that do are less than 4. And nobody is going to go into PF just to see if some poor tank/healer will join them and get nothing from it unless they are actually leveling or just have a lot of patience.

And no, there are some people in this who have said they don't have an FC. So claiming "Don't you guys have FCs" sounds as out of touch as the guy from the Diablo Immortal launch thing.

Also, I'd like to run Crystal Tower raids with Blu. But that's not happening in my lifetime in PF.

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Originally Posted by Kaonis

It's a concept known as inference. It's one of the greatest things our brains is capable of, the capacity to predict things based around precedent and logic. Meanwhile, people seem to want to defend the fact we're getting a job that's not a job by simply saying "We haven't tried it yet". Just like how I don't need to drink a bottle of bleach to know its a bad idea, I don't need to play BLU to know that a job that won't ever be able to access current content is a bad idea.

And lets not kid ourselves, the devs have a very long precedent of implementing side content to at best mixed reviews, and typically dead on arrival or close to it. See: Diadem 1 and 2, Lords of Verminion, half the Gold Saucer, half the PVP maps, combat guildeleves, Eureka (which is only survived by the fact it has relic tied to it, but has been a major point of contention due to how uninspired it is).

So when they say BLU is going to be its own side content instead of a fully fleshed out job, of course we're not expecting it to be done right to begin with, while we lose out on an iconic and fan-favorite job for everything else in the game.

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And then again all this because you expected it to be a regular job.
And again, as I said, YoshiP did say it would be something different, shall it ever make it into ffxiv.

I am often told to respect people's opinion of not liking the job.

How about you respect YoshiP's idea of a BLU in ffxiv ?
He's the game creator : it is his view of the job in a ffxiv context - understand : he doesn't view it as a raid job.
He wants to make BLU some kind of extra content ? Yes, he has all the rights to.
Hate it as much as you want, that is your point of view, hate it as much as you dislike any other idea they've been proposing us... And let's just stick to raids and dungeons ? Or do you not like that content too ? What are you playing the game for then ?
Or would you admit they did have some good idea in the past ? Then it is not failure after failure, no one is perfect, and right now in the mmo market, they're not doing bad : I guess they know what they're doing.

Again, you all had too much expectations from it, all thinking it would be a regular job.
It's almost like you all put this on yourselves, which in the end feels more comical than absurd.

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Originally Posted by LauraAdalena

I had no expectations, and I'm let down. I'd much rather a full job.

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Well you got extra content - not a job. Too bad.
If you don't like 24 man - wait for 5.0 or unsub what can I say.

I won't lose time on the nitpicking like "SE has nothing to do with it (like YoshiP works for himself)", or "the bold about BLU mechs (like you know... learning spells from monsters)"

Again, your whole response is just another repetition of what people keep saying on and on - You guys are all visionary and know it will suck.
Well you know what : YoshiP doesn't give a dam - he has made his version of BLU and is delivering it patch 4.5, like it or not.

And the last line was clearly a reference to that diablo thing... guess I made it more than obvious to point point out the absurdity of all the whining.
I wouldn't have created that post if all that whining was after 4.5 release - even I would've contributed to feedback if I found some things could be done better... but that is only after leveling it to lvl 50 and getting the full experience of it.

I wouldn't be so cynical if we didn't see this exact same scenario play out multiple times already.

SE developers show a concept of some type of future change.

The players see what they see and react to it. Often negatively.

Then the White Knights show up and it's always the same, moving the goalposts:

* It's not released yet, judge it when it's released
The Forums are flooded with posts of "This is the exact problem of Job X, here's some solutions to fix it."
* Judge it at max level
These problems are still persistent or getting worse.
* Judge it in a Savage
* It's Fine you're Playing it wrong

Then, after 8 months, SE realizes something IS indeed wrong and does a minor fix.

LOOK AT SE! THEY'RE ACKNOWLEDGING US!! THANK YOU!

Meanwhile, the job in question is still not optimal.

Again, this has happened numerous times. SE simply doesn't care about feedback. They're going to release BLU exactly as they've shown and won't deviate unless it's extremely poorly received. I love a LOT about this game, but the developers are stubborn beyond belief.

Ultimately, I'll play it to max, get all the skills and never touch it again.