How I wish Eureka was

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Originally Posted by KaldeaSahaline

What do you think? Good ideas? Bad Ideas? Fun? Not Fun?

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Apart from the effects carried by mobs, there doesn't seem to be quite enough depth or impact from the elements to warrant their complexity. I'd wager that using the elements alike to a generated-spent resource instead would allow for more impact during whatever events or conditions one would be looking for that impact, therefore seeing greater presentation even with the same, on average, power. I love the weather patterns, though some (such as Heatwave) seem like they could use some fleshing out for more apparent impact.

Overall, I'm fond of any idea that allows for greater depth of play and increased available difficulty (with proportionate reward, in line with the games general skill-output curves in side-content), but I don't think this addresses any of the more basic issues with Eureka, which are to me the areas of, essentially, forced dead space, mostly due to the leveling curve.
- Optimal leveling, unless NMs die very, very slowly, requires what amounts to afking, especially due to the late access to mounts. Players create dead space.
- Once NM packs are outleveled, they're generally skipped. Portions of the map become dead space.
-- Even if an upper level wishes to go back and help a lower level group so they can level without essentially afking most of the time, s/he so penalizes their exp rewards that it's never worth it. Again, dead space. (To be fixed in next patch, maybe.)

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Originally Posted by Remedi

There is a bse of foundation for criticism about eureka and relics in general, which is that usually savage raiders are considered excluded from them by the dev team.
As such I think that is fair to ask the dev team of making the raiders care about them somehow

Think about it as Potd it gives contents to a broad spectrum of ppl.

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Yet non Savage raiders are left out of Savage. (It's too hard for them often enough.)

Raiders have one thing, everyone else has something else. Simple.

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Originally Posted by Adeacia

Yet non Savage raiders are left out of Savage. (It's too hard for them often enough.)

Raiders have one thing, everyone else has something else. Simple.

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No one is really left out of Savage, every player has a chance to try it. It's the player themselves that determines whether something is too hard or not worth the effort personally. But, every player can try Savage if they really want to. It's just a memorization of certain routines and mechanics that takes time and patience to get through. It is hard, I won't lie, but it's all dependent on the motivation and determination of that said person.

For the longest of times, I wasn't a Savage raider because I felt that I couldn't do it. Then, I started to try it and realized that I was more afraid of my own failure from not understanding the mechanics right away and less that the fight was just too hard. I was more afraid of making the other players around me angry than trying harder to improve. Once I let all of that stuff go and found people to do it with that we're also having a good time with me while learning? Savage became less hard and more fun.

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Originally Posted by KaldeaSahaline

Do you by any chance have any input on the actual mechanics therein? Good? Bad? in between?

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Theory crafting like this is fun and all but with the content already basically set in stone, I doubt they will take any of these ideas into account. They may already have plans for some of this stuff, if so, excellent, you have a few neat ideas. If not, well I hope you arent setting your expectations based on this being implemented, if so I'm willing to bet you will be disappointed.

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Originally Posted by Adeacia

Yet non Savage raiders are left out of Savage. (It's too hard for them often enough.)

Raiders have one thing, everyone else has something else. Simple.

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Would agree if the difficulty was gordias or midas, but they've started dropping that to make it more for everyone, there's also some savage streamers that like to help ppl to get first kills. I'd say that by now savage is open enough to the point that not doing it is more of a personal choice.
On reddit there's a guy from a user that was made to essentially help ppl with starting savage even from the basic psycological aspect of it, which is something I admire, it makes me feel like the community can be helpful to one another.

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Originally Posted by Remedi

Would agree if the difficulty was gordias or midas, but they've started dropping that to make it more for everyone, there's also some savage streamers that like to help ppl to get first kills. I'd say that by now savage is open enough to the point that not doing it is more of a personal choice.

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I don't believe this. I've seen way too much complaining about PUGs, especially 07 and up, to believe even easier savage is accessible for all. I notice a lot that people who do savage seem to really underrate their skill and overrate the easiness of content in this game, which makes it hard for them to accurately comment on how hard something is for people not in their cohort.

As for making relics harder, I really don't think hard + long grind will be nice for many people. Making them more involved...idk, that just makes people rely on third party guides really.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

I don't believe this. I've seen way too much complaining about PUGs, especially 07 and up, to believe even easier savage is accessible for all. I notice a lot that people who do savage seem to really underrate their skill and overrate the easiness of content in this game, which makes it hard for them to accurately comment on how hard something is for people not in their cohort.

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If were talking about Guardian and God Kefka here, well, that's the point. They're mimicking what happened with the last Savage Tier. You have the first two fights somewhat challenging to get your feet wet, they're not super easy, but they're not insanely difficult either. And then, you have the last two fights that spike up the difficulty for the ones who really want that harder challenge, especially for the weapon. Most of the Savage fights just rehash what the game already has taught you in terms of mechanics. The thing that has most people that are stuck on Guardian is Virus...because only a few people remember Allagan Rot from Coil. It also uses the "finger cursor" mechanic from Argath coupled with another mechanic that doesn't want you to move. It's all just another song & dance pattern that you need to memorize.

God Kefka's difficulty is mimicking Neo Ex-Death which is fair, you get a weapon out of the fight. It's fair to expect a stronger difficulty and a lot of effort for the best ilvl weapon so far at endgame. I don't think my static will get to God Kefka which is fine, getting through Guardian would be a surprise and achievement enough because that's more than I thought we'd get through.

But, again, the game isn't preventing you from trying Savage, only yourself by saying that you can't do it.

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Originally Posted by Sigma-Astra

If were talking about Guardian and God Kefka here, well, that's the point.

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Well, no, from the scuttlebutt even 05 is a pain for many people. It's just, well, to assume even now its easy enough that people are only locked out by choice is a bit much. They made it better, but it's still overall something that doesn't really attract casuals to do, and it's hard enough to prevent friends from doing it together if they have different skill levels. It's just now it's not destroying everyone raiders and casuals alike, like Alex did.

I think they could test this by making the last fight of this tier on casual as hard as low-end savage, and I think we'd see then how skill varies among people.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

Well, no, from the scuttlebutt even 05 is a pain for many people. It's just, well, to assume even now its easy enough that people are only locked out by choice is a bit much. They made it better, but it's still overall something that doesn't really attract casuals to do, and it's hard enough to prevent friends from doing it together if they have different skill levels. It's just now it's not destroying everyone raiders and casuals alike, like Alex did.

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Well, it's not really assuming? I'm speaking from personal experience as one of those casual players that didn't want to do Gordias, Midas, or Creator. I thought that they were insane. I still think that those fights are. But, Deltascape and Sigmascape thus far have been incredibly more easier than the past Savage tiers. And yes, you're right, the Phantom Train is a pain in the butt, it's a pain in the butt for me as well, but, it's not impossible. We got a newbie healer through it for their very first clear, got the same healer through the painting (which is significantly easier for BLM imo).

They're not super easy, but they're not super hard and impossible either. The people that choose not to do it have their own reasons and that's fine, but, to say that Savage is locking them out? How can content lock a person out when everyone with the ilvl is free to try it just to see if it's for them or not. Nothing hurts you from trying, nothing is stopping you from trying except yourself.

I'm running through Savage on BLM. I'm already severely gimping myself as it is.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

I don't believe this. I've seen way too much complaining about PUGs, especially 07 and up, to believe even easier savage is accessible for all. I notice a lot that people who do savage seem to really underrate their skill and overrate the easiness of content in this game, which makes it hard for them to accurately comment on how hard something is for people not in their cohort.

As for making relics harder, I really don't think hard + long grind will be nice for many people. Making them more involved...idk, that just makes people rely on third party guides really.

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Free to not believe it, but the fact is that savage is much more pug friendly than before anyway and mind you I don't mean braindead easy, the simple fact that it's even puggable in some form it's just miles better than what gordias and midas were for the raiding scene.

And about relics I'm not saying that it requires to be hard and long, imagine you get to floor 100 with pugs on potd and you get like 50 anemos crystals, you get to floor 200 solo and you get a weapon complete (ofc this is just an example because solo floor 200 is bonkers with RNG) But in short the harder the content the greater the progression the less the grind and viceversa.