The mentality of a silent newbie healer/tank in trials/alliance raids...

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Originally Posted by AlexionSkylark

Most people kkep quiet because they are afraid of getting KICKED OUT over being new.
And true honesty? their fear is not unjustified.

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I feel like it's certainly unjustified. At the beginning of all new content I run I say something like "Hi all! o/ First time for me, I'll try not to suck!" and I have never been kicked for anything that could be related to that. I may only be one person but I've also seen tons of new people announce themselves and never seen a votekick option pop up for them once it became available.

Also I know I use 'you' a ton, it's meant as a generalization, not aiming anything at you personally Alexion :D

I think people manufacture this toxic enviroment that they see themselves in. If you go around calling everyone elitists and problematic that is going to reflect in your experience. If you go into new content open to cretique and with a desire to succeed with your party you will see that come back to you more often than not. It's like driving a new kind of car - suddenly you see those cars everywhere! It's 'cause you're looking for them though.

I think the OP has the right of it here and I wish more people were open about their newness. I know in terms of wanting a blind run I do ky best to respect these people (when they speak up that is) and I'll generally give someone two wipes (that aren't my fault, if I wipe us it's on the house) before I exoect them to take some advice. I have never encountered a blind runner who wouldn't take advice after that.

I just wish everyone would stop acting like this game is some cesspool of toxic waste - most people don't care that you're new and aside from them the majority will enjoy helping you. Yes, we have a small group of bad apples but they most certainly don't ruin the bunch.

Generally speaking If I'm new. I might not say anything. There's many reasons. One might simply be I don't want a 5 minute conversation before each boss I just wanna go in and try it.

Another one is I might simply be coughing it on my sofa with my control pad and we'll my keyboard simply doesn't reach that far or probably isn't even connected and people are always on such a rush that even he 10 seconds it might take to say hey guys first time here using the ps4 touch pad and the first boss is already pulled..

I'm generally a quick learner very rarely watch any videos read any guides much prefer to figure things out for myself. Videos and stuff tend to be a back up if one particular thing just doesn't make sense to me. A video may clear it up.

There's also the fact that most content is tuned so low i could make a hundred mistakes and still clear it with ease. 99% of the game is face roll you really don't need to know much at all.

If I'm joining the other 1% of content then I'll be joining a practice / p1 learning party in partyfinder in which case it should be pretty obvious that I'm new to the fight.

But then people don't read pf descriptions anyway. The number of players that join a practice party and leave after the second wipe cos theu expected a clear.

When I first started on the ps3 I never talked because I didn't have a keyboard and didn't understand what the macros were for because it was my first time playing a mmo since warcraft back when it was brand-spanking-new (no expansions and auction house only in ironforge). Most people didn't notice and those who did just called me names like mmo culture is some super obvious and easy to grasp concept. I still eventually figured things out at my own pace and bought a keyboard though because I enjoyed the game and wanted to improve.

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Originally Posted by DracotheDragon

Some people myself included enjoy going into a fight for the first time blind and learning by doing its Just the way some people find enjoyment in this game

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And that's great! So long as you are doing it with other like-minded individuals. However, if you had the opportunity to educate yourself, and chose not to, and then inflicted yourself on seven other people who now have to carry you through the content, that's where it begins to become less admirable.

As I see it, going into a fight blind is forgivable if:
- The content is new. Like, less than a week old.
- The content is very forgiving, like a dungeon, or non-Ex Trial.
- All other participants are aware of your newness and agreed to indulge it before entering the instance.

Seriously, it's not that hard to put a group together that will be happy to run the content with you blind. Just dropping in on a party at random, though? If you're LUCKY, they will explain the contents to you, which will ruin your "learning the fight" just as much as if you'd researched the fight. If you're unlucky, the party will disband after a few wipes, and you've just wasted the time of seven other people just to indulge yourself. If your methods for finding enjoyment in this game rely on sacrificing the enjoyment of others, then they are bad methods.

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Originally Posted by Lazaruz

I dont think what OP meant was letting people know that they're new to excuse "ignorance" of mechanics, but rather not having first hand experience with the mechanics.

It's one thing for someone to tell you how to do a mechanic, and it's another entirely to actually be the one at the controls and having to do the mechanic correctly

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This! I may not play tank, but as I'm still new I try to read up on mechanics on new dungeons/trials (occasionally even watch videos) before going in. Even then, I've run into my fair share of mistakes from missing a cue for a mechanic in the chaos of a fight because I wasn't used to dealing with it yet. But I'll usually say something right from the start to let people know I'm new, and most of the time everyone's pretty understanding.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

It's not off, at all. SE loves to make instant death mechanics that aren't always easy to read in the middle of the chaos of battle. If you aren't really good at reading and reacting on the fly, you're going to be on the floor a lot, and SE massively punishes healers in particular if they die , by loss of MP and things like the fairy and aetherflow stacks for sch. In content where you specifically make learning parties its ok, but in repeatable "just hard enough" content its bad. That's the way the game is.

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Context matters. Before the quoted part, I also wrote:

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Originally Posted by tinythinker

Not everyone can or does play regularly or do instances regularly, and if you unlock a lot of things, it can be hard to recall when you've been away. Not everyone gets a returner crown (on a few days, off a month, etc) and even when they do they still may be re-learning after it expires. So saying you are returning or rusty is important.

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I was, perhaps unsuccessfully, pointing out common situations where "Just watch a video" isn't helpful or appropriate. Rusty returners may have unlocked a lot of stuff and subsequently forgotten a lot of it. If I unlocked 20 dungeons, but some of them I've only run once or twice and the others I've forgotten a lot about after a long absence, then yes, as I wrote, I should say I am rusty or forgetful. Absolutely. Give the DF group a heads up. I did this the other day with some 4.0 dungeon that I only ran once back in early access.

My intent then was to say that for that foggy returner, having to sit through 20-30 guides before getting into a roulette is off. Mostly if people just say "Oh, on this next boss watch for X and do Y", the rusty player will be fine. Same with new players who don't remember everything the second or third run. I wasn't addressing players who prefer to experience content blind on their first run or people who are brand new and don't speak up. Other people also should speak up at times. I hope that makes sense? :)

I do agree with you wholeheartedly about those hard to spot mechanics if you are new or can't recall parts of a run. This summer I was in some dungeon and got a green or grey marker over my head and ran to the side to drop off whatever was coming. Apparently that was a stack marker. Oops. I apparently hadn't been in that run often or for a long while.

Anyway, sorry if my earlier post was unclear. And if not, I do get what you are saying.

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Originally Posted by MoroMurasaki

I think people manufacture this toxic enviroment that they see themselves in. If you go around calling everyone elitists and problematic that is going to reflect in your experience. If you go into new content open to cretique and with a desire to succeed with your party you will see that come back to you more often than not.

I just wish everyone would stop acting like this game is some cesspool of toxic waste - most people don't care that you're new and aside from them the majority will enjoy helping you. Yes, we have a small group of bad apples but they most certainly don't ruin the bunch.

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Yes and no. I wrote a FFXIV blog on elistist/scrub, and that mentality can be toxic from either perspective. I agree that I haven't seen people kicked left and right for being new or making a few mistakes. I also agree that I've seen some really nice and helpful people. But I've also come across a fair share of really rude people, moreso in mid to late 2017 than early 2016. I was actually very impressed when I first got here how pleasant DF was as a new player.

It also matters how well you do your job and what the expectations of other players are. Many want to go as fast as possible to get their roulette done because they are bored and just want the reward. Others see it as a matter of pride or ego. Whatever. Mostly though it seems to be one person in a group that gripes if that comes up. A lot of the pressure likely comes from inside the new or returning or nervous player, from fear of failure, fear of rejection, or fear of letting people down. If you put a few really rude/mean players per week (or sometimes in a day!) on top of that DF will take on an ominous feel. It may also depend on continent and data center in some cases in terms of how people behave or react.

If I'm going in blind I don't say anything because i don't want spoilers (even when it comes to mechanics)... I usually only do this for dungeons and alliance raids... for 8man raids and ex fights I generally watch a guide first... but I always experience content as a dps first either way

If I'm new, I will say so. Every time. Sometimes people will go ahead and give a summary, sometimes they don't. Makes no difference to me, really...I learn fairly quick. Now, if it's an Ex primal or something I will always, and I mean ALWAYS watch a video beforehand. Then I will join a practice party or make my own. Watching vids is hardly mandatory, but no matter what you are (tank, healers or dps), simply let people know you're new. That's all. And if you don't want spoilers, also say so.

It's weird how people used to explain fights but now nobody ever does.