Dear Healers who don't DPS

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Originally Posted by Maeka

*enters dungeon*
*Tank mashes sprint button and grabs 3 packs of mobs*
*I catch up to the almost dead tank and give him Benediction*
*I get locked into chain-casting Cure2, not having enough time or MP to do anything else*

How again was I supposed to DPS?

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I don't think anyone expects you to DPS in such a situation. If you're spamming heals unable to do anything else, that's fine (though your tank could be bad, not popping any cool downs).

What people have a problem with are healers who stand around doing nothing, or spam healing when little to no damage is happening. It's not "DPS all the time", it's "DPS when you have the time".

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Originally Posted by Kyrph

Ever since I have gotten to the 315 -320 Ilevel, I have been able to survive a lot easier is dungeons allowing me to stay in dps stance the entire dungeon (even in Ala Mhigo). As a WAR I have access to a lot of great CDs and though I take more damage, I usually am never in any threat of dying so I pull 2 groups when I tank. I rather the healer focus on keeping me alive a bit more when I am dps stance while I put out the damage they would of done by spamming berserk, overpowers and decimates every pull even doing more damage than some dps. I usually get 2-3 player commendation every time I do the expert dungeons so I guess some healers prefer this more.

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I'm starting to see 310+ geared tanks in the Expert Roulettes who can actually do DPS stance and stay alive and it is nice. Far better than last week when I'd see tanks who were only in the 290s and requiring constant Cure2 spam because they were biting off more than they could chew without constant help.


The last three Expert Roulettes in a row had good tanks that could actually pull two groups of mobs and leave me enough time to squeak in an Aero III and a Holy per pull and then a few Stone IVs once we got down to the last 2-3 mobs, and their larger HP pools make Benison more powerful too, to boot!

It isn't that I don't want to DPS, it's just a lot of times with the multi-pulling craze, it's difficult to find time and not endanger your group. I don't like seeing tanks dipping to 50% or less before I even start curing because I know it's going to take several cures to get them back up to a comfortable level that allows me to cast a DPS spell and them NOT fall over dead in a large pull.

Now on bosses... yes, I DPS plenty on bosses, especially in the first 20% or so because the boss is tame enough that simply casting Regen on a decent tank is enough, and I can Aero and Stone away without having to worry much.

EDIT: RE:Elleia: Ahh, okay. I was just making sure lol. And no, I don't like to stand around doing nothing, UNLESS a tank has run my MP into the ground and I'm like <50% MP with either Lucid on cooldown, or I'm expecting another large drain to MP soon so I want to rest my MP a bit when I get a chance, or there's only one mob left with like 50% left on it... that single Stone IV is not going to make the dungeon any faster, in fact, the mob will die before I even finish casting it lol.

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Originally Posted by Kurando

It's not a DPS's responsibility to heal or tank (some of them do have the kit for it), so how is it that a healer HAS to DPS just because it's available to them.

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It's the responsibility of all party members to actively use their abilities in as effective way as possible. I assume you're able to understand the difference between being effective and not. Healer casting heals when the heals are needed is being effective. Healer doing nothing or casting heals when the heals aren't needed is not. At that point, healer can become effective by casting DPS spells. DD using their most effective DPS skills is being effective. DD spamming 1 skill over and over is not, and a DD using healing abilities is (in most cases) even less effective than that. Of course, if for some reason a DD casting healing spell is the most effective way to help your party, they should do that. But it's significantly less common than how often a healer can be effective by doing DPS. Hope this clears it up. :)

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Originally Posted by Taika

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I would also like to add, PLDs who refuse to cast Clemency even though it would be a huge help. I've run into a few PLDs who think Holy Spirit is their only MP spell they have other than Flash, which is rather weird because Clemency is obtained way before HS. There are times that a couple DPS will stand in bad or unavoidable AoE happens and I sure wouldn't mind the little extra padding and the tank is standing there with full MP who is wailing away with GB or RA, and I'm like "...dude. You have full MP... mind helping me out here for a sec?" ... nope. He's gonna keep meleeing.




Whatever. I can heal without his help, but a pld tank who does throw out some Clemency and knows when/how to is nice. I also love seeing Vercures popping up on my screen too. It just shows a team-oriented player who is not afraid to use a GCD to soften the burden, and hey. If we, the team, get people back up faster, I can throw more DPS too. *shrug* Now, I am not familiar with RDM enough to know how much resources/prep/etc Vercure takes but I have seen a few willing to cast it so it couldn't be that bad.

I do know, however, Clemency tends to be a Commendation Machine, lol. I remember this one Shisui where the healer got hit by every single dance from the 2nd boss (the one that has the chests that turn you into an old lady) and I Clemency'd them before they could even think about reaching for their heal button... happiest healer ever. Didn't even have to do much of any healing the whole fight, lol.

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Originally Posted by Cynfael

I think the situation has improved somewhat, but no, an inactive healer is usually not the tank's fault.

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I didn't say inactive. I said that healers don't generally DPS if they don't feel like they can and keep the party alive. Sure, you'll have those who don't but most do. It's boring otherwise. I can find better ways to do nothing than go into a dungeon. xP First couple pools, I'll test the waters. If the tank goes from 100% to near 0% constantly, then I'm not going to DPS the rest of the dungeon (for the most part.) My job is to keep people alive, not DPS. Healing comes first.

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Originally Posted by Taika

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So where exactly does it say that it's everyone's responsibility to do such things? Is there some strict small print that I missed that states players need to adhere to it? Nah, that's what I thought. You can often get the same results without using everything at one's disposal, I assume you are capable of that occasionally, hmm?
Every class has actions that allow them to branch from their designated role, but this is not an expectation nor should it be enforced. The idea of being effective works in some situations but you are missing the point that everyone has their own play style and it is not for us to police or dictate what they do. This is going back to OP who only wants DPSing healers so they can have quick run, it's like someone asking to watch the cutscenes in 8man MSQ but being told to use the PF. It's essentially the same situation in that if you want a run to go a certain way, going in to DF and expecting everyone to play your own way comes across as arrogant. At the end of the day whether it's effective or not, there are more than one person in the party and success can be obtained without crying about a little lack of DPS. Sure that clears that up, but no doubt some unnecessary comment coming up...

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Originally Posted by Kurando

So where exactly does it say that it's everyone's responsibility to do such things?

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It's implied when you're part of a team, you do things to benefit the team.

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Originally Posted by Kurando

This is going back to OP who only wants DPSing healers so they can have quick run,

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No, I'm asking for all players to use their full kit and not be lazy. A faster run is the result of that.

Dear SE, please Nerf healer dps and shut this argument down once and for all. Plzkthnx.

Also buff boss damage substantially to compensate and increase mob HP so healers need to watch their mana and heals.

Or Nerf the power of healing spells so that healers have to devote more time/MP to performing their main role. Either option works.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

Dear SE, please Nerf healer dps and shut this argument down once and for all. Plzkthnx.

Also buff boss damage substantially to compensate and increase mob HP so healers need to watch their mana and heals.

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Although I understand how you feel. I don't think nerfing healer dps would really solve much. It would end up creating more problems since soloing content as a healer would become a lot more tedious. Also a good portion of the healing player base enjoys dpsing so although it is not needed for most content giving them option is better than not having it at all right?

WHM is probably the best healer for dungeons. When you're watching Netflix and the good part is on, you can't be bothered to heal your party members. Benediction is your perfect answer when you look back over to see your tank nearly dead. There's far too many shows to watch for healers to be required to participate in more than 10% of the dungeon.