MCH vs BRD (And why MCH need serious help)

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Originally Posted by Pence

Reasons not to play MCH:

Low DPS.
One of the hardest jobs to play.
Lack of support compared to BRD.
L70 skill is the Dissipation of Stormblood.
Severely punished for overheating.
Turret RIP is just a DPS RIP

Reasons to play MCH:

You sometimes get a cool gun. But get stuck with a lunchbox.

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Easy fix (both on SE's part, and on the players' part if you learn to work the overheats properly)
It's really not. It's actually easier now.
I find the changes made to MP/TP regen questionable personally, but it's less that MCH lost anything, but that BRD was simply given more now.
I've felt from the start Flamethrower was overhyped, but as a heat management tool, it has its use. Priority-wise, it's the last tool I'd use.
If you use it right, you're really not punished for it.
Could be stronger, kinda niche. I'd rather have Grenado Shot back.

I'm fully expecting a lot of BRD/MCH leapfrogging this expansion, but time will tell. I'll stick with it no less.

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Originally Posted by Shunye

except if you actually look at the good mch's. the best bards vs the best mch, the dps difference is 60. people on the forums need to stop acting like the sky is falling.

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Range of the top 100 FFLOGs of each class for Susanoo Ex

"MCH: 3083-3660 DPS
BRD: 3419-4451 DPS"

Edit: The 4450 was fed balances, actual highest is 4098, still a large gap but not as significant.

I'm fine with them buffing MCH a bit, but please be careful this time. Nobody wants the ridiculous 2 ranged meta again.

I think, more than overreacting, a much better thing at this point is to brainstorm: What's an area MCH specifically needs improvement? How can it be improved (and without homogenizing it to simply be just like BRD)?

We can sit here all day and throw parses and complain, but let's get some viable feedback going. What needs fixing. How do we fix it. What can we add or change or remove. Devs are watching. Make something happen.

Brd is very RNG-dependent right now. One try brd can do 4k dps, and crush mch, next try brd does 3500 (pressing "same" buttons!), and mch may outperform him. Probably you are comparing "best try" brd dps against "more stable" mch?

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

I think, more than overreacting, a much better thing at this point is to brainstorm: What's an area MCH specifically needs improvement? How can it be improved (and without homogenizing it to simply be just like BRD)?

We can sit here all day and throw parses and complain, but let's get some viable feedback going. What needs fixing. How do we fix it. What can we add or change or remove. Devs are watching. Make something happen.

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I'm bad at ideas so i was just kinda hoping they'd figure it out ...xD

MCH utility is pretty bad and it'd probably be a lot of work to add a bunch in so at this point I think they should just raise potencies for skills and/or maybe make Hot Shot and Gauss Barrel 10%.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

We can sit here all day and throw parses and complain, but let's get some viable feedback going. What needs fixing. How do we fix it. What can we add or change or remove. Devs are watching. Make something happen.

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It's a nice sentiment and all but we really shouldn't have to fix the jobs for the devs. We're not looking at a class that someone found a neat little trick or quirk that the devs never thought of. We're looking at several classes that have such fundamental balance flaws in them that you have to seriously question if the devs are either entirely ignorant of how to balance a class or just flat out don't care. They said they didn't release a new tank or healer specifically to balance them and those are the two most screwed up roles of all. How can they fail that much?

You can notice the devs preference for BRD than MACH by their Role Skill animation. BRD gets a nice Flute animation, MCH gets a... Body Shake/Seizure animation :/

First thing's first: I want Lead Shot back. Or ANY kind of DoT. BRD has 2, even SAM has 1. I know most physical DPS lost their DoTs but I can think of no reason Lead Shot had to go.

Next, we could use better AoE options. I'd prefer the target-based aoe of Grenado Shot, but I can work with Spread Shot's cone. The Bishop turret didn't need the Flare treatment as it already deals lower potency damage than the Rook. Flamethrower isn't terrible as an aoe, but it isn't great either. I'm more likely to use it as (my lowest priority) heat management tool than I am for actual damage. Turret Overload is also currently underwhelming for a 30 second price. Increase the damage or decrease the downtime. Also please lower the volume of Spread Shot, it's a bit loud and annoying.

Cooldown needs to be an off-global cooldown. Everything else about it is fine.

That's a few things I can think of while here at work.

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Originally Posted by Yorumi

It's a nice sentiment and all but we really shouldn't have to fix the jobs for the devs. We're not looking at a class that someone found a neat little trick or quirk that the devs never thought of. We're looking at several classes that have such fundamental balance flaws in them that you have to seriously question if the devs are either entirely ignorant of how to balance a class or just flat out don't care. They said they didn't release a new tank or healer specifically to balance them and those are the two most screwed up roles of all. How can they fail that much?

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But that IS what we do every time. Especially where and when we feel/know something just doesn't work as intended. Otherwise Ranged Physical would still have cast times.

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Originally Posted by Blazinhart

You can notice the devs preference for BRD than MACH by their Role Skill animation. BRD gets a nice Flute animation, MCH gets a... Body Shake/Seizure animation :/

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I do find that kinda uninspired. How about using the animation of the PvP Skill "Report"? Or reusing the Grenado Shot animation and throwing out a little device that we fire to break and create the MP/TP pulse?

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

I do find that kinda uninspired. How about using the animation of the PvP Skill "Report"? Or reusing the Grenado Shot animation and throwing out a little device that we fire to break and create the MP/TP pulse?

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I think the animation used in "Promotion/Promote" where MCH raise his hand and press a button would be perfect