Puppetmaster Job for Final Fantasy XIV (2. Job for PUG)

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Originally Posted by Tonkra

I dont see that.

As i said i would design the puppet pets differently to other "regular" pets we have in FFXIV now. These you just take them out and they spam their standard skills automatically. Therefore i would add that "heatometer". Everypuppet skill creates more or less amount of heat. If you reach overheat your puppet isnt able to perform any actions for a huge period of time.

so that it prevents you to use CURE for example regularly and spammy like e.g. the fairy of the Scholar.
That these puppetskills are used as manual commands instead of the auto spam system (with endless MP) which we have with all pet in FFXIV as for now.

i would like to have MORE control and more significant damage for the pets instead of an auto spam system.

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You did not read what I said carefully. I said it would be extremely gimp or extremely op, there is no way to balance that to be a middle ground. Pup would either be over wanted, or not wanted at all (Given way we currently heal, that strongly suggests, in order to make it any kind of meaning of useful, you are running pup with 2 other DPS and tank, same with making it be tank mode, it would be 3 dps and a healer.) Look at the titan failure we have.. it can't take any hit while in low DFs you can make it tank, then again you can run 4 dps in low dfs so its whatever I suppose.

Again there is a reason RDM does not heal in this game and you think giving 2 different healing pets would bring balance? I would just advice focusing on one role, if you want your suggestions be taken more seriously by the dev team. (I would suggest making it DPS only)

You do not need to "spam" heals in this game:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBgM...youtu.be&t=562

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Originally Posted by Hamada

2 different healing pets would bring balance?

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And i think you dont get me. What im not asking for is an other elios fairy scholar pet that spams a heal endlessly because the pet has no MP bar.


Moreover that you limit the frequency of your puppet skills in this example by a "heatometer" - more or less a reversed MP bar:
http://fs5.directupload.net/images/170602/6zttqzrg.jpg


The numbers etc. are just examples... in this example CURE I would generate 25 heat (points). The heat bar goes from 0 to 100 points. If you reach 100 points your automaton overheats and cant perform skills. so that when you spam 4 CURE spells in a row that you would end up with your pet in "overheat" mode where it cant perform any actions furthermore. (if you spam your puppet's skills and dont manage the heat right). Thats even how it worked in FFXI, when you spamed your commands to your Puppet it ended up being overheated so that it couldnt perform any actions furthermore.

So a WHM PUPP wouldnt replace a SCH fairy at all.. the WHM Puppet adds up damage to the puppetmaster itself through Auto-Melee-Attacks and in between of those it is able to perform spells from time to time (NOT CONSTANTLY) (Aoero for low damage) or heal in tricky situations (CURE I). but in contrast to other pets like "Garuda egi" "Elios fairy" it wouldnt be able to spam these.

Having a pet class where the pets spells / weapon skills do actually matter concerning their power, a pet class in which you command your pet directly.
i myself love petclasses and Summoner is a REAL disappointment to me because the pets are real trash. you summon them and all they do is spam automatically.

do you get what i want?

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Originally Posted by Hamada

You did not read what I said carefully. I said it would be extremely gimp or extremely op, there is no way to balance that to be a middle ground.
Again there is a reason RDM does not heal in this game

if you want your suggestions be taken more seriously by the dev team. (I would suggest making it DPS only)

You do not need to "spam" heals in this game:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBgM...youtu.be&t=562

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Shorted my post, I already had a reply to that.

What you want=/= what the devs can do. THEY CAN'T BALANCE MULTI-ROLE JOBS! SMN and SCH is proof of this, RDM not having heals is proof to this! The game play of FFXIV =/= FFXI. They eve took away healer LB from BRD, should be another clue with that. You can't just throw in a half bake ideas of "limiters' and hope it works. Hell they had to completely remove PvE abilities in PvP because they can't balance them in PvP.

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Originally Posted by Hamada

Shorted my post, I already had a reply to that.

What you want=/= what the devs can do. THEY CAN'T BALANCE MULTI-ROLE JOBS! SMN and SCH is proof of this, RDM not having heals is proof to this! The game play of FFXIV =/= FFXI. They eve took away healer LB from BRD, should be another clue with that. You can't just throw in a half bake ideas of "limiters' and hope it works.

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The role of PUPP in FFXI is clearly a damage role... the PUPP performs H2H damage which adds up with the damage of the pets...

or is PLD a healer because he has the abillity to heal? nor does it make a PUPP a healer when he uses a WHM puppet that casts a cure every 10-30 seconds... in the end of a day its a damage dealer. And SMN and SCH are a proof of what?

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Originally Posted by Hamada

They eve took away healer LB from BRD

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Of course because he isnt a healer maybe? In the end of the day he is a dd with group buffs.

Fancy, but there are three major flaws.

The biggest one is that according to Yoshi, base classes are being removed by 5.0, meaning that the PUG approach kinda goes out the window. Sure, there could be some possible lore connection between it and monk, but the branch job concept not only won't happen again, but will eventually be guaranteed not to work again.

The second flaw is that in order to create another pet job, the current pet control system must be fixed. MCH gave an answer of the totem-style "set it and forget it" system, but this probably won't cut it for a job like Puppetmaster.

Lastly, as proven multiple times now, just because something was one way in FFXI doesn't mean it has to be the same way in FFXI. In fact, that's usually a good thing.

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Originally Posted by Kazrah

Fancy, but there are three major flaws.

The biggest one is that according to Yoshi, base classes are being removed by 5.0, ...

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Originally Posted by ReplicaX

You are missing the simple point of my post. It would have to be a Job not tied to a class and its own unique skillset. I am not discouraging PUP in XIV at all.

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Hey everyone who isn't reading the thread... we've moved past this shared class idea on page 2, keep up. If the OP wants to edit the title of the thread that would be helpful.

Throw that class system away, it's dead, buried.

The way I see a Puppeteer/Puppetmaster system working is either in:
a) They can summon ONE puppet of any class they already have at level 30+ or is in the party and do "mimic", hence access to the main DPS and Utility skill of those, but don't use MP or TP, just have a meter for how fast they cast before overheating and a different puppet needs to be switched in.

b) They can summon a group of puppets of any class set, each additional puppet cuts the "Control" (heatometer) meter by the additional puppet. So if you bring in 3 Tanks and 2 DPS puppets, each puppet will have 1/5th the control bar. Once a puppet is destroyed it can't be resummoned until a CD ends. Or a puppet can be dismissed before it's destroyed and have a shorter CD. Each puppet has a minimum of one skill. Level 30 will have only I, Level 50 will have II, Level 60 will have III and Level 70 will have IV versions of the skills.

In either case, play balance is an issue, since in A it acts as a kind of wildcard, where as in B it's more like the "Lord of Verminion" game. If you are forced to only use DPS puppets, the other puppets will never be used except in solo play, thus having the same "not using all the tools in the toolbox" argument.

If no puppets are summoned, the player defaults to PUG-style animations with "unaspected kick/punch", and "repair puppet" actions. Essentially the same as not using skills on any other role.



At any rate, another solution entirely is to just have more variety of puppets and pick jobs that was in FFV or FFX-2's dressphere's at pseudo-random (eg summon a DPS puppet at random from a pre-selected list) and all the puppets are unlocked through the job storyline. Like instead of "summon a puppet" it's "change puppet's costume"

From FFX-2:
Gunner
Thief
Warrior
Songstress
Black Mage
White Mage
Gun Mage
Alchemist
Dark Knight
Samurai
Lady Luck (Gambler)
Berserker
Trainer (Beastmaster)
Mascot (in FFX-2 this was Moogle, Cactaur and Cait Sith)
Festivalist
Psychic
Freelancer (default)

Freelancer is the "no skills, just punch and kick"

From FFV:

(DPS Melee)
Knight
Dragoon
Samurai
Mystic Knight
Berserker
Monk

(DPS Caster)
White Mage
Black Mage
Time Mage
Summoner
Blue Mage
Red Mage

(Utility)
Thief
Ninja
Ranger
Beastmaster
Chemist
Geomancer
Bard
Dancer

(Special)
Gladiator
Oracle
Cannoneer
Necromancer

Freelancer
Mime


Hence if you pick a "DPS clothes" for the puppet's clothes, it will switch to one these which have their own skills. Probably too much work for developers but hey, they put all that effort into the minion system, it seems like all that logic is already in the game and just looking for a way to use it in the dungeon without forcing players to hunt for minions.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

Hey everyone who isn't reading the thread... we've moved past this shared class idea on page 2, keep up.

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The 2nd post of the thread killed off the shared class idea, keep up.