Seperate the Grind from Item creation

While I'm not totally on board with the solutions that the OP presented, his basic idea of "separating the grind from item creation", or in other words, separating a tedious activity from one that requires more concentration and skill, is a valid concept that needs to be seriously considered.

Given that the crafting materials have been lessened due to "parts" being taken out , when I see the word grind when talking about the crafting system my mind replaces "grind" with "this takes effort". Whats the point the point of having a crafting system that is automated , talk about boring and unrewarding.

i wonder if factory workers (in RL) hate the boring and repetitive work that is undertaken to mass produce products. the fact is crafters are the richest ppl in the game and they do this boring work coz it makes them rich. you can't have it both ways

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Originally Posted by heavenswrath

Given that the crafting materials have been lessened due to "parts" being taken out , when I see the word grind when talking about the crafting system my mind replaces "grind" with "this takes effort". Whats the point the point of having a crafting system that is automated , talk about boring and unrewarding.

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Well, unfortunately pressing standard synth 5-10 times does not "Take effort". Time sink does not = Effort.

I'd rather be discussing new ideas at this point rather than eluding to the fact that you did not read the whole post but, The system I proposed would not be fully automated, the time and effort of making actual items would be greatly enhanced if that was all the Crafting system was required to focus on.

The assumption that the crafting system must function in the same way that the battle system does in terms of grinding is unnecessary. Maybe it could be included, but how can then resolve how boring the current system is?

How about leveling up a craft through a chain of quests? Give each class a deep storyline that is similar to the main missions we have right now...You have to have a DoW or a DoM class leveled to X in order to unlock the next quest.

Blacksmith example

Billy the legendary blacksmith is known all through the land for his amazing craft. He is in one of the city states looking for a thief that stole one of his prized weapons. You bump into him as he confronts the thief and help him defeat the thief (You need to be at least level 10 to win the fight.) He thanks for your help and as a reward takes you on as a disciple, something he hasn't done in over twenty years. Becoming this unlocks novice rank..which lets you craft things rank 1-10 in blacksmithing.....easy starter quest.

At level 20 in DoW or DoM you get a new quest.
Your master needs a list of items for an order or whatever....the items are not tradable...and can only be crafted. The mats needed to craft them drop from specific monsters in the game and the mats are not tradable...so you have to hunt them down yourself. After you complete the list....you turn them in and get a CS of your master teaching you some new methods...a few scenes of you building different stuff...maybe breaking stuff and him yelling at you...after your all done.. your the next level of crafter and can now craft stuff 1-20.

I think you guys get my point.

Is it "easier" than what we have now? Yes.....is it more entertaining? I think so.

Leve's to earn guild points could ask the player to mass produce some items..AND THE LEVES DO NOT SUPPY THE MATS... so this would cause the player to make items at their current level range and once the leve is complete...they get to keep the made items and most likely sell them in the wards....giving incentive to create low mid and high level items and fill the wards.

Cons to this idea.

Less mass producing an item 324232325232323 times...which could be used to sell on the market wards to other players. But people aren't really doing that right now anyways.

People complaining that this method is too easy...and their grind to getting all the crafts to 50 the "hard way" was for nothing and there for if it was hard for them it has to be hard for everyone else.

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Originally Posted by Sypherblade

How about leveling up a craft through a chain of quests? Give each class a deep storyline that is similar to the main missions we have right now...You have to have a DoW or a DoM class leveled to X in order to unlock the next quest.

Blacksmith example

Billy the legendary blacksmith is known all through the land for his amazing craft. He is in one of the city states looking for a thief that stole one of his prized weapons. You bump into him as he confronts the thief and help him defeat the thief (You need to be at least level 10 to win the fight.) He thanks for your help and as a reward takes you on as a disciple, something he hasn't done in over twenty years. Becoming this unlocks novice rank..which lets you craft things rank 1-10 in blacksmithing.....easy starter quest.

At level 20 in DoW or DoM you get a new quest.
Your master needs a list of items for an order or whatever....the items are not tradable...and can only be crafted. The mats needed to craft them drop from specific monsters in the game and the mats are not tradable...so you have to hunt them down yourself. After you complete the list....you turn them in and get a CS of your master teaching you some new methods...a few scenes of you building different stuff...maybe breaking stuff and him yelling at you...after your all done.. your the next level of crafter and can now craft stuff 1-20.

I think you guys get my point.

Is it "easier" than what we have now? Yes.....is it more entertaining? I think so.

Leve's to earn guild points could ask the player to mass produce some items..AND THE LEVES DO NOT SUPPY THE MATS... so this would cause the player to make items at their current level range and once the leve is complete...they get to keep the made items and most likely sell them in the wards....giving incentive to create low mid and high level items and fill the wards.

Cons to this idea.

Less mass producing an item 324232325232323 times...which could be used to sell on the market wards to other players. But people aren't really doing that right now anyways.

People complaining that this method is too easy...and their grind to getting all the crafts to 50 the "hard way" was for nothing and there for if it was hard for them it has to be hard for everyone else.

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I think adding quests to unlocking progress as a crafter is a good idea. It reminds me of the plans to unlock "Job" abilities.
-That addresses a lot of the resentment that crafters are a "second tier" class.

Streamlining the grind with guildleve/marks is another good idea. It would add some purpose to grinding out 100 of some item.

:)

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Originally Posted by grandm

i wonder if factory workers (in RL) hate the boring and repetitive work that is undertaken to mass produce products. the fact is crafters are the richest ppl in the game and they do this boring work coz it makes them rich. you can't have it both ways

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I can actually tell you that if the products that the factory workers made were thrown directly into the trash (Vendor'd), they would find the job much more unbearable.

Think of a job you have had where you are unable to appreciate the results of your work. The fact that they can take pride in a well made finished product that they put their skills into, such as a new car, makes the process enjoyable for a large number of people. Sure it's not like sex, drugs and rock n' roll, but it can be satisfying.

That is the aspect of Crafting that I would like see instilled in the new design.

I'm also going to say that crafting/gathering needs grinding like any other class. But it should be much less tedious, it should take less time to pop up the crafting windows and each grinding craft shouldn't have 5-15 mini trials for the craft to be completed.

However, if crafting and gathering are classes which are just as important as all others then there should be more events for these classes, there should be an alternative to the same grind all the time with good xp rewards like for instance those that DOM and DOW have.

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Originally Posted by Celtodeno

I can actually tell you that if the products that the factory workers made were thrown directly into the trash (Vendor'd), they would find the job much more unbearable. The fact that they can take pride in a well made finished product that they put their skills into, such as a new car, makes the process enjoyable for a large number of people. Sure it's not like sex, drugs and rock n' roll, but it can be satisfying. That is the aspect of Crafting that I would like see instilled in the new design.

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in a perfect world this sound lovely but in the real world you do the job your paid to do, regardless of what happens to the finished product. the fact is in this game you make 99 dodo leather farm dodo skin for 0 cost and mine alumin for 0 cost and sell them at 2k each and make close to 200k (this is just an example please don't go all nazi on me about the numbers) the point is that is 200k you have just made for very little effort. sure it has taking you some time to do this, but lets not complain it's boring when it bassicly free money

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Originally Posted by Dreamer

No. Doing this would turn crafters into a second tier class. They're a primary class, and should be treated accordingly. Make the crafting process more fun and the grind isn't a problem.

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Crafting should never be a primary class in any MMO.