Over 36 RL hours farming my last Atma and counting

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Originally Posted by Roris

For procs and damage rolls? Sure. For quest progression? Nah, there are much much better ways to do progression, many which have already been mentioned in the feedback thread.

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Well SE obviously think differently, and I tend to agree with them.

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Originally Posted by Parodine

random =/= fair.

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Technically speaking, random is completely fair. Everyone has the same depressingly abysmal chances, but some people get lucky. What random isn't, is equal, because of the fact that some people get lucky and finish early, and others are unlucky and have to put in many times the amount of effort to get the same thing, or may never even get it no matter how hard they work at it.

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Originally Posted by Djeserit

Lol. No.

Do 50 fates in a zone, you get an atma.

THAT is fair.

Do anywhere between 1 and 1000 fates in a zone and you might get an atma is not.

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So many people confuse fairness and equality. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather the grind was the same for everyone and luck was removed from the equation, but I can't pretend it's not fair, because it is. It's just not equal. I'm still only 3/12 myself, after having put in 31 hours, 23 of those before seeing my 1st drop.

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Originally Posted by Themis

The chance to obtain an atma following a FATE is the same regardless of how many FATEs you did previously. It's not a cumulative thing, it's a completely independent event.

If it has a 5% drop rate, that's only an average of 1 in 20. But it's a 1 in 20 chance, on average, every single time. It would be great if probability worked on the concept that, by the 20th event you will guarantee get the atma. But, no, it doesn't work like that. All it means is that, if 1000 people participated in a single FATE, and you gathered the results of who got one and who didn't, you would expect ~5% of those players (ie, 50 of them) to have obtained an atma. It could be drastically more or less, because that's only 1 event. Repeat that over 10000 events (or FATEs), and you would start to see closer to an average of ~5% of players getting a particular atma.

So it doesn't matter how long you spend doing it, it's simply probability or luck. That's why you can get people who have all 12 in 4-5 hours, and some who haven't got 1 in 30+ hours. Thus, why there is no point in farming ad exhaustium and complain about how the system is unfair etc. Of course it's unfair; the drop rate is absurdly low. But at least SE can predict that only a small percentage of the player base will actually progress to stage 2.

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Exactly.

I'm kind of glad I brought up the fact that many people don't understand how this works, because Jinko proved that I am right. Now maybe those who read this thread won't spend hours upon hours grinding only to get themselves in a tizzy and resort to venting on here.

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Originally Posted by KenzieLynch

That depends on how you look at it, really. RNG is in many ways the MOST fair you can possibly get in a game of this type, that's why it's so often used.

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Lol. No.

Do 50 fates in a zone, you get an atma.

THAT is fair. Everyone has to do the same amount of work for the same reward.

Do anywhere between 1 and 1000 fates in a zone and you might get an atma is not.


Synonyms for fair
adj impartial, unprejudiced
candid
civil
clean
courteous
decent
equal

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Originally Posted by KenzieLynch

Well SE obviously think differently, and I tend to agree with them.

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I love Final Fantasy too, doesn't mean I have to come up with silly justifications for every bad decision they make. I got my Atma on Monday, it was still a badly designed quest that only rewarded my luck, it's just plain bad.

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Originally Posted by Calyanare

Technically speaking, random is completely fair. Everyone has the same depressingly abysmal chances, but some people get lucky. What random isn't, is equal, because of the fact that some people get lucky and finish early, and others are unlucky and have to put in many times the amount of effort to get the same thing, or may never even get it no matter how hard they work at it.

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Apologies, you're right in that the RNG is fair in one aspect.

However, the effort that some people have putting out for it is extremely disproportionate. And that disparity is why it feels very unfair. There is no skill involved. It's just luck. Which is rather frustrating to many people, as you can imagine.

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Originally Posted by Djeserit

Lol. No.

Do 50 fates in a zone, you get an atma.

THAT is fair. Everyone has to do the same amount of work for the same reward.

Do anywhere between 1 and 1000 fates in a zone and you might get an atma is not.

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Everyone has the same drop rate, everyone is rolling a dice. It's fair as long as the same rules apply to everyone.

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Originally Posted by KenzieLynch

Well SE obviously think differently, and I tend to agree with them.

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Neither of which, makes it right.

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Originally Posted by KenzieLynch

Everyone has the same drop rate, everyone is rolling a dice. It's fair as long as the same rules apply to everyone.

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Seriously. I mean, its just like the lotery. We dont all go up in arms and complain when someone wins 50 million dollars when they had the same 1 in 10 billion chance to win.

Atma was not intended to be farmed, it was intended to be gradually obtained over time. The fact that the wave and tidal wave equipment and high allagan gearbis a testament to this! Get your atka when you get it, farm your tidal wave weapon (which is vastly superior to the atma weapon for at least 4500 myth and three quests or more following your attainment of it).

well as long as we are arguing semantics,
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fair
fair (adj.)
:agreeing with what is thought to be right or acceptable
:treating people in a way that does not favor some over others
:not too harsh or critical

*stirs the pot*