Has anyone quit healing?

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

I actually want to try healing in Savage, P4S in particular seem'd quite hard on healers it looked fun to me.
Imo healing in most content tho gets old very fast, too little healing and too much 1 spam.

Then again if you make it as hectic as it is in P4S you alienate too many, I lost count how many times we wiped at the end of P1 because healers couldn't keep up with the raid-wide aoe or in P2 for the same reason.
There has to be an inbetween tho, I don't think that casual content should be completely braindead.
There is such a thing as so easy that it's no longer engaging, casual content should still be engaging otherwise it's probably not fun gameplay.

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So this comes back to the fundamental design philosophy of FF14: That damage is predictable. So, yes, stack on enough of it in p3s and p4s and it can be challenging in a certain sense. But it really comes down to just plotting CDs on a spreadsheet, or just doing the equivalent mentally. At 30s we use this, and 1:00 we use that, then for that really big hit at 2:00 we use this and that...

But this sort of design is why even in ultimates, healers spend the vast majority of their GCDs pushing one button.

And, yes, as another side effect, "casual"/mainline content then becomes completely braindead if the healer has even the faintest idea of what they're doing. (And making tanks self sufficient takes away even the little bit of maintenance heals you might have to do).

I wasn't originally in favor of upping the complexity of healer DPS because I'd rather be healing and have encounter design changed to facilitate that; but after years and years of asking it ain't happening so I'd take any gameplay that isn't hitting one button for the vast majority of GCDs. Except that isn't happening either so...

Well, here we are.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

So this comes back to the fundamental design philosophy of FF14: That damage is predictable. So, yes, stack on enough of it in p3s and p4s and it can be challenging in a certain sense. But it really comes down to just plotting CDs on a spreadsheet, or just doing the equivalent mentally. At 30s we use this, and 1:00 we use that, then for that really big hit at 2:00 we use this and that...

But this sort of design is why even in ultimates, healers spend the vast majority of their GCDs pushing one button.

And, yes, as another side effect, "casual"/mainline content then becomes completely braindead if the healer has even the faintest idea of what they're doing. (And making tanks self sufficient takes away even the little bit of maintenance heals you might have to do).

I wasn't originally in favor of upping the complexity of healer DPS because I'd rather be healing and have encounter design changed to facilitate that; but after years and years of asking it ain't happening so I'd take any gameplay that isn't hitting one button for the vast majority of GCDs. Except that isn't happening either so...

Well, here we are.

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This! I'm not asking for a full-on dps rotation but something that correlates to how healers are designed. If healers are supposed to be minimal healing and maximize uptime, then at least make the dps part feel....like it means something. The sheer fact that they have all healers with a baseline spam, dot, nuke is pretty telling.

I've noticed that for EW they're putting new abilities behind buffs (Devilment - Starfall Dance, SAM's Ikishoten, etc). They could easily do this with Chain, Astrodyne, Presence of Mind, Addersting procs.

I get they don't want to make a full combo but I feel like what we have is sad.

And on P3S and P4S... Personally I found 3 to be unbearable with the aggressive orange colors and the forced healing that needs to be resolved in 3 GCDs.

P4S isn't THAT bad. Well doorboss is annoying in the worst ways (long movement with healing). But the second half is a good challenge. They can make the damage hit as hard as they want but at the end of the day, healers aren't built to handle constant damage.

If they had to heal every GCD, you would be out of MP fast. WHM already can't handle Glare spamming without running OOM. AST and SGE would be the only two that could possibly handle that and even then.

Medica 1, Cure 2, Succor, Adlo spam is just as boring. Healing isn't just about HEALING. I really wish people would understand this but the devs certainly don't even if their philosophy is the opposite.

Old thread, given the first posts were in 2016!! :D

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I heal no matter the game. If I start a new MMO, I pick a class that can heal, no exceptions. In the rare cases I'm not healing, it's because my friends need a tank. And I pick the one of those that can heal. I've never been a fan of DPSing, and especially if I can't aid my party (SMN/RDM get a pass because they can Raise and RDM can heal in a pinch; all the tanks other than DRK can heal right now)

So I'm a healer born and healer main, even if I'm a semi-omni-main at this point that duals heal and tank and dabbles in SMN for PF when the tank and heal slots are full.

That said, healing needs work.

Encounter design seems to be all about oGCD heals and predictable, but spiky, damage, and doing DPS the rest of the time. This makes many of the healers feel wrong, and causes a lot of imbalance. ALL of the healers have pretty boring DPS kits, with SCH probably being the most advanced because of Ruin 2 and Energy Drain optimization. Anyone who thinks healing is boring right now, I'd encourage to try SCH anyway since they have a lot of tools to wrap your head around and try to maximize use of. WHM is the worst since it's based on GCDs in an oGCD encounter design game.

I'd like healing to be more interesting, and don't mind a 1,1,1,1,2,1,1,1,1,1,1,2,... rotation for damage (since I don't care much for damage other than doing it as filler to help my party get the kill faster), but the design of encounters needs to focus on that. Right now, it isn't, putting healers in general in a weird place, and WHM, in specific, in a bad place.

I mained Scholar through ARR, Heavensward, and Stormblood. Shadowbringers saw me play healer much of the way through because... my RP main was a scholar, and the raid group needed a healer. Eventually I just couldn't take it anymore and went Warrior until I nearly quit the game entirely, the only thing keeping me around was the hope that something would be different and the new mechanics being added to NIN.

Now I main SMN because it's finally the visual theme I enjoy, though the simple rotation has me kinda petering out of content... but I think I can officially say that I'm not leveling a healer again until we at LEAST get our Stormblood DPS kits back.

I'll jump in and offer an alternative stance. I want to preface this with the fact that I understand completely why healers don't like the gameplay in the game.

As a person who would normally not touch healers with a 10 ft pole (The only exception in my long long list of MMOs I've played being Chloromancer in RIFT); I actually enjoy healing (normal content) in FFXIV. I haven't even stepped into more difficult content (at-level extremes/savage/ultimate), but I enjoy healing through dungeons way more than I would have thought that I would. I _think_ that is the goal with the design choices that Squenix has made with Tanks and Healers; to try to get people like me (DPS-only players) to be willing to jump into those roles and realize that they're not as "scary" as they seem to be.

Having a well balanced population is very important for group content and any design choices that move population balance closer to 50% DPS/25% Healer/ 25% Tank is good for everyone, it makes for much less downtime. Sure, it's a shitty thing to just look at the numbers since these design choices are decreasing very important, unquantifiable things like player satisfaction, job identity, and fulfillment. But if making those changes mean that more people are playing the roles, that is quantifiable and is something that is at least somewhat important.

So, people like me are likely the ones being catered to by these design choices, even though I'm not asking for them at all. I'm sitting here enjoying the occasional healer run but completely understand why people would stop playing.

I wouldn't say I quit healing. Just giving myself a little Handicap by doing it as a Warrior. Unless i am half way to brain dead and want to do some roulettes anyways, then I do at times pull out SGE again.

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Originally Posted by LeonKeyh

Having a well balanced population is very important for group content and any design choices that move population balance closer to 50% DPS/25% Healer/ 25% Tank is good for everyone, it makes for much less downtime. Sure, it's a shitty thing to just look at the numbers since these design choices are decreasing very important, unquantifiable things like player satisfaction, job identity, and fulfillment. But if making those changes mean that more people are playing the roles, that is quantifiable and is something that is at least somewhat important.

So, people like me are likely the ones being catered to by these design choices, even though I'm not asking for them at all. I'm sitting here enjoying the occasional healer run but completely understand why people would stop playing.

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And that is the reason why their healer design choice ultimately failed in achieving what they wanted: an increased healer population so the queues are reasonably fast on all roles.
Someone that would normally not touch healer with a 10 ft pole occasionally plays healer -- at the cost of a veteran healer quitting completely. They have sacrificed a large amount of veteran healers, players that don't just occasionally do something on healer but rather dedicated healer players that went healer for most of the DF things for many years and all for the sake of reeling in players that don't really want to play healer but are okay enough with it to occasionally do it.
Queue times for healers have been shorter than for tanks since ShB for the most part, despite what AIN might suggest when it was always the other way around pre-ShB.

They reel in baby healers and people that have been either unwilling or scared with a low skill floor but they fail to keep them for the lack of any long-term engagement while also driving away more and more veteran healers. The role currently offers nothing except instant invites.
It's not that healer mains don't know that players like you have stayed away from the role for one reason or another or that they don't want new players to take a liking to that role or at least give it a go every now and then. But getting ignored and ultimately sacrificed as a dedicated healer main that has been filling queues for years in favour or people that are not even interested in a role is a kick to the face. As a veteran healer main for years, you don't matter one bit.
That is their message. You're irrelevant. Go play Ultimate or something, just shut up, we're busy patting little Timmy on the back for finding his Cure button.

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Originally Posted by LeonKeyh

I'll jump in and offer an alternative stance. I want to preface this with the fact that I understand completely why healers don't like the gameplay in the game.

As a person who would normally not touch healers with a 10 ft pole (The only exception in my long long list of MMOs I've played being Chloromancer in RIFT); I actually enjoy healing (normal content) in FFXIV. I haven't even stepped into more difficult content (at-level extremes/savage/ultimate), but I enjoy healing through dungeons way more than I would have thought that I would. I _think_ that is the goal with the design choices that Squenix has made with Tanks and Healers; to try to get people like me (DPS-only players) to be willing to jump into those roles and realize that they're not as "scary" as they seem to be.

Having a well balanced population is very important for group content and any design choices that move population balance closer to 50% DPS/25% Healer/ 25% Tank is good for everyone, it makes for much less downtime. Sure, it's a shitty thing to just look at the numbers since these design choices are decreasing very important, unquantifiable things like player satisfaction, job identity, and fulfillment. But if making those changes mean that more people are playing the roles, that is quantifiable and is something that is at least somewhat important.

So, people like me are likely the ones being catered to by these design choices, even though I'm not asking for them at all. I'm sitting here enjoying the occasional healer run but completely understand why people would stop playing.

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To add to what Rilifane mentioned, I also have to ask the question of, have you ever even tried healing in Stormblood or earlier? How would we even know if the old ways would've put you off to healing since you never got the chance to experience it? They keep pushing for easy and accessible, but I blatantly disagree that cutting DPS and CC actually accomplished either of those things. What keeps new or learning healers playing like crap is a combination of poorly designed foundational healing and just failing mechanics. There has never been a failed dungeon run because a casual healer casted Miasma instead of Physick in the history of this game.

Since that fateful day of being told to just play ultimate to feel alive when healing, I have finally given up on healing. I came into this game a healer in ARR and slowly I was losing the will, with every expansion post HW (rip my favorite AST period) seeming to dumb down the jobs making them more the same, feeling just plain bored doing savages because after you LEARN the fights, you end up healing less and spamming 1 button more. It is mind numbing, and it seems to never change.

After we were told to "go play ultimate if you want more engaging healing" I felt unseen. In that same live letter they went over how they are making the game more inclusive to people who play alone, I am one. I pug savage only, I don't have or want a static, what hope do I have to do ultimate? Sure I could PUG that too every once in a blue moon one shows up on PF but in the end I know it would devolve into 1 button spam. I even saw someone solo heal Alexander Ultimate, so what is the point? Healers feel like an after thought.

But anyways just wanted to add my voice somewhere to hopefully boost the number so the dev team can maybe see not everyone is fine. I quit healing and it sucks that I had too because I love to heal, but I can't enjoy it how it is now.

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Originally Posted by LeonKeyh

I'll jump in and offer an alternative stance. I want to preface this with the fact that I understand completely why healers don't like the gameplay in the game.

As a person who would normally not touch healers with a 10 ft pole (The only exception in my long long list of MMOs I've played being Chloromancer in RIFT); I actually enjoy healing (normal content) in FFXIV. I haven't even stepped into more difficult content (at-level extremes/savage/ultimate), but I enjoy healing through dungeons way more than I would have thought that I would. I _think_ that is the goal with the design choices that Squenix has made with Tanks and Healers; to try to get people like me (DPS-only players) to be willing to jump into those roles and realize that they're not as "scary" as they seem to be.

Having a well balanced population is very important for group content and any design choices that move population balance closer to 50% DPS/25% Healer/ 25% Tank is good for everyone, it makes for much less downtime. Sure, it's a shitty thing to just look at the numbers since these design choices are decreasing very important, unquantifiable things like player satisfaction, job identity, and fulfillment. But if making those changes mean that more people are playing the roles, that is quantifiable and is something that is at least somewhat important.

So, people like me are likely the ones being catered to by these design choices, even though I'm not asking for them at all. I'm sitting here enjoying the occasional healer run but completely understand why people would stop playing.

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Hmmm, very curious to know what you enjoy about healing in dungeons and normal raids, since there's nothing to heal. And that odd tank that you come across every full moon in ilvl 100 gear doesn't count.

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Originally Posted by Teno

Hmmm, very curious to know what you enjoy about healing in dungeons and normal raids, since there's nothing to heal. And that odd tank that you come across every full moon in ilvl 100 gear doesn't count.

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A lot of new or learning healers rely on the GCDs before their OGCDs and overheal like crazy. For example, something I notice very often when paired with a SCH or another SGE in something like Trial roulette is that many of them cast Succor/E. Prognosis after every attack or mechanic. It irks me because not only does it lower their overall damage output and waste their MP, but it invalidates my Addersgall usage.

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Originally Posted by Teno

Hmmm, very curious to know what you enjoy about healing in dungeons and normal raids, since there's nothing to heal. And that odd tank that you come across every full moon in ilvl 100 gear doesn't count.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

A lot of new or learning healers rely on the GCDs before their OGCDs and overheal like crazy. For example, something I notice very often when paired with a SCH or another SGE in something like Trial roulette is that many of them cast Succor/E. Prognosis after every attack or mechanic. It irks me because not only does it lower their overall damage output and waste their MP, but it invalidates my Addersgall usage.

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Yep, always seem to notice these whenever I get into the mood to queue as tank. There's plenty of people that will spam Cure/Benefic/Physick/Diagnosis, overhealing massively most of the time... and failing to step up the healing if you do w2w in a dungeon that allows some of the bigger pulls and do actually need some curative power backing you up. (While not playing Warrior of course, lol).

The game doesn't really give any indication or feedback along the lines of "Hey you're overhealing by 80% and the tank's self heals would pick up the 20% if you'd let it."

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Yep, always seem to notice these whenever I get into the mood to queue as tank. There's plenty of people that will spam Cure/Benefic/Physick/Diagnosis, overhealing massively most of the time... and failing to step up the healing if you do w2w in a dungeon that allows some of the bigger pulls and do actually need some curative power backing you up. (While not playing Warrior of course, lol).

The game doesn't really give any indication or feedback along the lines of "Hey you're overhealing by 80% and the tank's self heals would pick up the 20% if you'd let it."

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It gets even worse to watch when said behavior lead to a wipe, then all they could think of is something as trivial as "My Freecure didn't proc :(" or "I need to heal bigger :(" (in which case, it's always mean not efficiently).

To answer the question, I just did with 6.1. Healed since I started back in Heavensward. Already feel way more accomplished as a Red Mage dpsing and occasionally getting to heal again to recover from near-wipes. It's super nice being able to either prevent or emergency reverse disaster still while being able to play the game. Oh and people thank me now. Wild!

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

It gets even worse to watch when said behavior lead to a wipe, then all they could think of is something as trivial as "My Freecure didn't proc :(" or "I need to heal bigger :(" (in which case, it's always mean not efficiently).

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And it's not even only new or learning healers doing it. I often encounter it with people that have multiple healers at 80+.
They waste MP on overhealing like crazy, spamming aoe heals back to back when everyone is already near full and regens are still ticking but when things go sideways or you give them something to heal like a nice w2w, they're just completely overwhelmed and spam their weakest single target heal they can find. No ress or hard ress at the worst time and 2-3 more people die while they calmly finish their 7s cast, absolutely no priority for healing to prevent more chaos/ deaths, all powerful tools completely forgotte etc.

I encountered signifcantly more healers that spammed Cure I/ Physick/ Benefic I/ Diagnosis in ShB and EW dungeons in w2ws than healers that just used a couple of strong GCD heals in addition to their oGCDs until it felt safe to dps again. And that's not a hyperbole, I kept track. Only two of them adjusted their gameplay when I said that using their stronger version would make their life easier if I really take a lot of damage and that they don't need to worry about a skill having a cooldown, they're not just for emergencies and help to keep things under control.
One healer even doubled down on what they did wrong.

Don't really see the point in policing how people heal when the main complaint I've heard is lack of engagement. I'd say let em play how they want and let them reach the wall they want. If you're still healing somehow you gotta at least feel like you're doing you in the process, yknow? In general I think it's less than helpful to get mad at things like wipes or slip ups. People learn through mistakes, let them make them.

Ehhh, I get it, because it's related to the role getting dumbed down in a roundabout way. See, when Black Mages freestyle blizzard wizards, that's fine. It's a choice, it's probably RP, and they're doing less damage. But who cares, they're having fun.

A healer spams their cures and wipes people, you might get unreasonably mad party members. Said unreasonably mad party members eventually trickle to forums. There they moan and whine that healers "aren't healing", that they didn't make it through leveling roulette because of "that damn healer", Square hears them and goes "golly gee, they must not have healed because they were doing too much damage!", as is the (often incorrect) DPS standard opinion on why healers fail at their jobs. So they dumb the job down even more.

I'm not sure with or without that kind of chatter it would change much. I mean, it's not like people here posting makes any difference. :P

Also people getting mad at the healer are already the ones giving them "advice", in my experience.

another thing that irked me about the homogenised job design: why does fouchenault get his own unique rescue? and why do tanks still have rampart instead of their unique mitigation

job flavour and playstyle can be so much more of they try ><

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Originally Posted by Recon1o6

another thing that irked me about the homogenised job design: why does fouchenault get his own unique rescue? and why do tanks still have rampart instead of their unique mitigation

job flavour and playstyle can be so much more of they try ><

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Then we have Ranged DPS with Shield Samba, Tactician and whatever BRD's is called, when all do the same thing.

Yes, I quit the role.
I'm done.

On paper, it doesn't bother me to do dps during "dead times" when I play healer.
BUT if the game asks me to spend the majority of my time doing dps in 99% of the game content, then : no (regardless of what my dps options are)

Besides, I have a big concern on how the mp jauge is integrated in the gameplay now.
It's simple : even when I actually have to focus on healing (in that 1% content), I pretty much never have to look at it...

To me, mp management is essential in the interest I have to play healer in the first place.
If the game allows me to spam constantly my biggest heals without having to worry at all, then again : no. It's mindless.


Now I'm trying to find interest in the tank role, but if it doesn't match with me, I may go play something else...

From a healer main since Heavensward

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Originally Posted by Grann-Goro

Yes, I quit the role.
I'm done.
-snip for brevity-

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Have you considered black mage? I was just trying to think of jobs with MP management and... well, for SMN and RDM it's a nonissue except if you're trying to rez just after being rezzed or spamming a bunch of rezzes. But for black mage, there's actually a minigame to it at least.

But unfortunately if you don't like it, well, you won't really find that kind of "using this big move now means I can't later" style of resource management in FF14 generally. FF14's all about uptime and constantly attacking.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Have you considered black mage? I was just trying to think of jobs with MP management and... well, for SMN and RDM it's a nonissue except if you're trying to rez just after being rezzed or spamming a bunch of rezzes. But for black mage, there's actually a minigame to it at least.

But unfortunately if you don't like it, well, you won't really find that kind of "using this big move now means I can't later" style of resource management in FF14 generally. FF14's all about uptime and constantly attacking.

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While BLM has MP management it’s more of a sequencing barrier than an actual resource to be managed. Anyone seeking more attrition will find better healer gameplay in FTL. It’s why I value Energy Drain as much as I do. The nominal DPS tax is literally the only thing that makes me care about being efficient at all.

I know most WHM quit healing during the dungeon.

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Originally Posted by Anienai

I know most WHM quit healing during the dungeon.

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My friend died as a healer on the 2nd and last boss of the new dungeon at around 60-70% each. We killed the bosses without him.

Why bother healing when the most threatening thing in dungeons are the trash packs?

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Originally Posted by Grimoire-M

While BLM has MP management it’s more of a sequencing barrier than an actual resource to be managed. Anyone seeking more attrition will find better healer gameplay in FTL. It’s why I value Energy Drain as much as I do. The nominal DPS tax is literally the only thing that makes me care about being efficient at all.

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Indeed. But that's why I noted attrition just isn't really a thing in this game - it just doesn't fit the design. Hence why TP is gone completely and MP only serves to limit rezzing.

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Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

My friend died as a healer on the 2nd and last boss of the new dungeon at around 60-70% each. We killed the bosses without him.

Why bother healing when the most threatening thing in dungeons are the trash packs?

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One of the reasons that I'd argue making Phoenix Downs usable in dungeons, increasing the amount you can carry, giving them a cooldown, and giving them out for free when completing certain daily tasks like roulettes would be a much more effective way of making the healing role actually more accessible rather than just throwing more OGCD heals on top of the pile, neutering the frequency of damage taken, and continuing to ignore the clutch GCD heals inexperienced healers rely on.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Hence why TP is gone completely and MP only serves to limit rezzing.

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Indeed, but why have MP to limit the usage of one spell only ?? It makes no sense !

Just delete MP completely, put a cooldown on the rez spell with 4 or 5 charges, and bam : same gameplay, easier to balance, and easier to run for the game program.

Things have reached such a point with this dumb game design we don't have anything to lose anymore...
Oh, and healers who keep asking for still more free heals will all be happy in the same process.

In fact, it may not even be needed to put any cooldown at all on the rez spell, and just have free and unlimited rez spells.
White mage pretty much already has this, since thin air has the same cooldown as swiftcast (this feels so, so stupid....)
The enrage mecanic is already there to prevent victory if there are too many deads anyway.


EDIT : Wait, I have an even better idea for you "game designers" : banish death and rez spell completely and make the game this way :
if a character HP drop to zero, this character gets stunned for a few seconds, then he raises automatically with a dps debuff !
Better, right ? *sarcarsm*

No matter how badly they Bork up the role, it's the only role with different healing spells. So I will play it.

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Originally Posted by Laerune

No matter how badly they Bork up the role, it's the only role with different healing spells. So I will play it.

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I dunno, tanks have a lot of healing these days. For example, Warrior has Bloodwhetting, Nascent Flash, Equilibrium, Shake it off...

I mean, you can love or hate MP, but that design really isn't a healer-specific issue. And trying to introduce it to healers only would just cripple them.

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

I dunno, tanks have a lot of healing these days. For example, Warrior has Bloodwhetting, Nascent Flash, Equilibrium, Shake it off...

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and PLD has enhanced Blade of Faith, Truth, and Valor which cures themselves. And Confiteor and...

i resign as Scholar from 2.0 ARR to now it is too boring, broil broil is simply too much toil ......healing isn't a challenge anymore and no thanks to ultimate. I am now full time Red Mage and it is so much fun. As this is the forum post for quitting healing sadly for now I do and it feels liberating to let go.

Healing has become more frustrating to play as we delve deeper and deeper into "content that can be healed entirely without losing dps" because other players' mistakes and the lack of action from cohealers quickly removes the enjoyment of playing optimally.

Bumping this thread back to the first page; After having resubbed, I tried all the healers again to see if maybe it was just burn out, and I still feel the same way that I did back when I posted in this thread a few months ago, and my decision to quit healing wasn't the wrong one. It is still the same boring 1 button mess with very little to heal.

I've been playing healers in PVP recently and they're all very fun there for what the mode is. It's interesting to me as a SCH player that they embraced some of the roots they've tried hard to move it away from in PVE with the DoTs and plague/disease, especially giving it a new AoE skill called Mummification. SCH, as far as I'm aware, is the only job with two DoTs in PVP (well, 1 DoT and a debuff, but it reuses Miasma's DoT icon) which shows that in some form, it's still considered apart of SCH's identity somewhere; I just don't understand why our PVE kits specifically have to be so bland across all the healers while they manage to play differently in a similar amount of buttons in PVP.

PVP has shown that they're capable of coming up with great ways of retaining job identity while managing "button bloat." Why are we not afforded this consideration in PVE content? Why are we consistently the one role where they seem to put no care into how we have fun in the content that we play this game for? Please, just let there be some communication here. We "complain" because we love the game. Contrary to what a lot of people seemingly think, healers don't hate to hate, we just know it can be so much better if you'd take the time to listen and talk with the people that love this role and want it to be the best it can be. I get that balancing an entire role that none of the developers seemingly enjoy is a complicated task, but please start considering the players' fun first and foremost. After all, if it's not fun - why bother?

The only time I play healer these days is in PvP because shockingly, it seems like the PvP Job Designers were allowed some degree of freedom and creativity.

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

The only time I play healer these days is in PvP because shockingly, it seems like the PvP Job Designers were allowed some degree of freedom and creativity.

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But healers in PVP aren't really healers. Don't get my wrong they're fun in their way... but... yeah.

Also, pve can't really expand into the same spaces pvp does. Having jobs with lots of CC just doesn't work on a game so centered around scripted boss fights. Having MP support and similar doesn't work for the same reason - when the fight is exactly the same every time, either you need extra MP all the time, or classes are self sufficient and need it none of the time. It was also a huge pain to try to convince people Repose and Fluid Aura were useful is Eureka/Deep Dungeons/etc and shouldn't be erased (and that battle was still lost).

pve healers just can't go in the same directions.

I can understand why though. Healers in MMO's have always been problematic and either very hard to kill or required heavy downsides to balance. FF14 PvP loosening the impact of the trinity, while still keeping a little of the flavor works better imo.

But while PvE healers can't go in the same direction as PvP, the point is more that PvP jobs are more designed with fun in mind. WHM with a gap closer, giant laser beam and instant Cure III on a proc and whatever are changes we could only ever dream of in PvE, where we're essentially playing the same bland job as we did in ShB with a few QoL tweaks and Overheal plant on a ridiculously long cooldown. Or AST in PvP getting things like Doublecast while PvE gets Astrodyne that is basically just a fluff Lucid Dream.

Obviously they can't go nuts in PvE and balance is more important, but PvE healing could still seriously do with a good dose of fun injected into the toolkits, instead of such a high focus on "not making it stressful" and bland efficiency.

Balance is absolutely a detriment to the game.
Meta slaves loose their collective shit if their favourite job is like x% below some else's. Or they operate under the assumption that everyone plays perfectly therefore you don't need [x] ability. Now all we have left is [increase DPS by x%].

It's high time we discard that unrealistic goal of achieving perfect balance. We've seen where it leads for two expacs.

>>>>> And, no, it doesn't mean go from one extreme to the other. <<<<<

But I'd happily play a weaker class if it is fun to play. Many jobs aren't, I'm sorry. Especially in conjunction with brain-dead content.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

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PvP healers are healers, let's get rid of this misconception once and for all. Being a healer doesn't necessarily mean you are a healing totem whose only life purpose is to heal people once they take 1 HP damage. Healers heal, buff, debuff and mitigate. PvP healers can do all of that.

PvP understands that the game revolves around DPS and designs healers accordingly. Good healers - crystal rank good - know how to get the most out of their skills and will do exactly that. A WHM, for example, has Cure II, Cure III, Protect, Aquaveil and Temperance (+ AoE Regen) and Afflatus Purgation. A good WHM will use the tools at its disposal to maximum effect, which means defeating your enemies and protecting your party.

PvP healers work because DPS and healing (as an umbrella term which includes heals, buffs, debuffs and mitigations) work together and not separately as in PvE. You DPS because you need to kill your enemy and because DPSing unlocks tangible benefits.

No one is asking for PvE kits to become 100% copies of the PvP ones. We are asking for PvE to be fun and engaging again and there is a lot of inspiration to be taken from PvP. Saying that the two modes are completely different just exposes the same short-sightedness and blandness the devs decided to embrace in ShB.

What speaks against:

- Deployment Tactics becoming a core SCH skills which can be used to spread Galvanize, Biolysis, Chain Stratagem and Protraction?
- Expedient granting Recitation so SCH can get more free healing?
- Eukrasian Dosis granting a shield to your Kardia target?
- Addersting being generated once the Kardia shield is depleted?
- Toxicon becoming an oGCD?
- WHM getting Seraph Strike and Afflatus Purgation?
- AST getting different cards again?
- AST getting Doublecast?

Why can't SGE get Mesotes as a regular skill in PvE at level 82, instead of Krasis which is completely forgettable? Make it a ground AoE skill that reduces damage by 10% for anyone standing in it, granting the buff Mesotes. Once damage is mitigated, Mesotes changes to Lype which deals damage over time to enemies standing in the circle. Surely this is better than Krasis and works perfectly fine in PvE?

Why can't WHM get Seraph Strike instead of Divine Benison? It can have the same potency as Stone/Glare, act as a gap closer, grant Protect to nearby enemies and allow an use of Cure III as on oGCD. If the skill is too powerful, you can remove protect or maybe make Cure III weaker than its GCD version.

Why can't WHM get Afflatus Purgation as the level 80 capstone, replacing Temperance? Still same potency as Glare (with AoE damage), so you don't use it as a DPS skill only, similarly to Pneuma or Macrocosmos. Deals damage to enemy in a straight line and grants Temperance (could be 10s). 60s cooldown. This is surely better than Temperance and works perfectly fine in PvE? It reduces Glare spam a bit (even more if you give WHM Seraph Strike too) and it introduces a choice between Seraph Strike and Afflatus Purgation (one requires you to be in melee range and party members are required to be nearby, the other one gives you more freedom in terms of positioning).

This is the direction PvE healers need to go and this is also how you encourage casuals to DPS as a healer because they can see that DPSing is not something that evil elitists force them to do, but something that contributes to their healer duties in a direct and tangible way.