Please Reconsider MSQ Changes

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Originally Posted by linay

That wouldn't stop people kicking those who don't want to skip. In fact, it would make them want to kick more because they would want a party that go at their pace to help them.

With the way it is now, those who want to go ahead can start on the fight and those who wait patiently can join in if the fight has not concluded.

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With the way it is now, nobody should be going ahead, and can rightfully be reported for doing so.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

This is true and unfortunately what people didn't realize.

Castrum and Prae are big epic storyline dungeons for new players. The whole reason the roulette exists is to help the new players get a group and the reason they offer so many tomes is to reward players for helping out the new guys.

Unfortunately what happened was players saw it as a daily exp boost they were entitled to and kicked, ignored or left behind the newbies the entire thing was designed for, before snatching the "thanks for helping the new guy" reward and walking off. It's sad that Enix saw no choice but to literally force players to let the newbies enjoy their dungeon, but you can absolutely blame the players who said "we can kick who we like, it doesn't break ToS, difference in playstyle, watch it in the inn". Just because something isn't bannable, it doesn't mean it's fine. It created an issue that eventually required the devs to take measures and they did. There's a lesson to be learned here.

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The true nature of a person shows when there are no tangible repercussions for their actions.

I haven't read the entire thread, and I'm not going to cuz it's really long. But I wanted to briefly put in my own experience with this before cut scenes were unskipable.

I remember having a really bad time in these MSQ ques because the first time I was there I was so engrossed with the story and wanted to watch everything as it was basically a finale for the ARR storyline. I remember coming out of the cutscenes and no one was around. I didn't know where to go. No one was responding via party chat when I asked what was going on and where everyone was. I was literally lost. Though I didn't know what was going on at the time, eventually the party would get to the next progression area and a new cutscene would play for me. I ended up watching all of the cut scenes without even fighting any of the bosses.

Needless to say my immersion was completely destroyed. I was so shocked that I went to the general FFXIV discord at the time (don't know if it was some unofficial or official one) to ask about it. And the respond from them was just "Tough man. Watch the cutscenes in the inn." Which wasn't even really a real response to my particular issue. I SAW all the cutscenes. My issue was that what was supposed to be a finale to the story that I was really into was destroyed by conflicting interests of players just wanting to get through the instance ASAP and not caring about some newbies immersion.

So to be honest, and I absolutely KNOW I'm in the minority here, but I appreciate the changed forced cutscene viewing (with greater rewards), for the sake of those new people who are legit into this really quirky game. That being said, I do agree the best option would be to make those two quests run with NPC's instead of players. But until that time, I think the change is better overall than what it used to be.

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Originally Posted by IntrovertAnt

I haven't read the entire thread, and I'm not going to cuz it's really long. But I wanted to briefly put in my own experience with this before cut scenes were unskipable.

I remember having a really bad time in these MSQ ques because the first time I was there I was so engrossed with the story and wanted to watch everything as it was basically a finale for the ARR storyline. I remember coming out of the cutscenes and no one was around. I didn't know where to go. No one was responding via party chat when I asked what was going on and where everyone was. I was literally lost. Though I didn't know what was going on at the time, eventually the party would get to the next progression area and a new cutscene would play for me. I ended up watching all of the cut scenes without even fighting any of the bosses.

Needless to say my immersion was completely destroyed. I was so shocked that I went to the general FFXIV discord at the time (don't know if it was some unofficial or official one) to ask about it. And the respond from them was just "Tough man. Watch the cutscenes in the inn." Which wasn't even really a real response to my particular issue. I SAW all the cutscenes. My issue was that what was supposed to be a finale to the story that I was really into was destroyed by conflicting interests of players just wanting to get through the instance ASAP and not caring about some newbies immersion.

So to be honest, and I absolutely KNOW I'm in the minority here, but I appreciate the changed forced cutscene viewing (with greater rewards), for the sake of those new people who are legit into this really quirky game. That being said, I do agree the best option would be to make those two quests run with NPC's instead of players. But until that time, I think the change is better overall than what it used to be.

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I agree, it's a change for the best.

Now, I could see SE maybe allowing for skipping if you form a full 8 man premade for them with no random people, but barring that, this is the lesser of two evils.

The ideal solution I think, would be to rework these two 8 man dungeons into solo instances with a trial fight for Ultima Weapon and Lahabrea at the end, but as that would take a lot of time and money, the current status quo works a good enough solution without redoing the whole thing.

An easy fix would be a vote system during the first cutscene.

Everyone gets to vote on watching them or skipping. If one person voted to watch, it remains how it is.

Voting would be anonymous.

Abandon option disabled since it's only those 2 dungeons.

Anyone that leaves is subject to the leaver queue penalty. The intent would be to discourage people harassing one person enough to leave to bypass the penalty.

At this point everyone going into those dungeons would expect the cutscenes, but would be plesently surprised if they get the skip.

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Originally Posted by Typhoria

An easy fix would be a vote system during the first cutscene.

Everyone gets to vote on watching them or skipping. If one person voted to watch, it remains how it is.

Voting would be anonymous.

Abandon option disabled since it's only those 2 dungeons.

Anyone that leaves is subject to the leaver queue penalty. The intent would be to discourage people harassing one person enough to leave to bypass the penalty.

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Its only an easy fix if the system is able to handle voting and playing alternate versions of cutscenes - and I don't think it is.

Then they also need to be able to selectively disable the vote abandon and/or kick (another thing that may not be possible).

And the final result.... the people who don't want to be there just disconnect form the game, preventing reinforcements, and they can't even be kicked.

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Originally Posted by Typhoria

At this point everyone going into those dungeons would expect the cutscenes, but would be plesently surprised if they get the skip.

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That's how it could have always worked - except people had to voluntarily wait, and didn't, which is what led to the enforced cutscenes in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Lissyl

It might be difficult to justify a 'difference in playstyle' when no actual playing is allowed. 'Being new' is not a style, it's a state of being.

As a player who hasn't quite hit these two yet, y'all make me very nervous.

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Don't be nervous, what you see here on the forums is merely an overreaction of a very minor portion of the comunity.

I run those everyday for tomes/leveling alt classes, and I can't even remember last time I saw anyone being rude to newcomers. It's usually a quiet run, with one or another player complaining about cutscenes, wich usually gets ignored or teased.

You have nothing to worry about man, just do it! :D

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Originally Posted by Typhoria

An easy fix would be a vote system during the first cutscene.

Everyone gets to vote on watching them or skipping. If one person voted to watch, it remains how it is.

Voting would be anonymous.

Abandon option disabled since it's only those 2 dungeons.

Anyone that leaves is subject to the leaver queue penalty. The intent would be to discourage people harassing one person enough to leave to bypass the penalty.

At this point everyone going into those dungeons would expect the cutscenes, but would be plesently surprised if they get the skip.

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Vote may be anonymous, but it's really easy to spot the new player on his first time tho. It will be the one with less than 4kish hp in case of DPS or less than 6kish in case of tank. Even if it isn't, you bet everyone would think it is and that poor player would suffer the retaliation.

The simple fix would be if there is a new guy bonus it locks it into view cutscene mode if there isn't one then cs should be skip automatically that would be the best method however if the cs are skipped the reward should be lowered including exp

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Originally Posted by Typhoria

An easy fix would be a vote system during the first cutscene.

Everyone gets to vote on watching them or skipping. If one person voted to watch, it remains how it is.

Voting would be anonymous.

Abandon option disabled since it's only those 2 dungeons.

Anyone that leaves is subject to the leaver queue penalty. The intent would be to discourage people harassing one person enough to leave to bypass the penalty.

At this point everyone going into those dungeons would expect the cutscenes, but would be plesently surprised if they get the skip.

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And if you get the version without cutscenes you will of course get less than half of the standard rewards.

This is the thing I do not think most people complaining about the cutscenes get - the only reason why the MSQ roulette gives such good rewards is as compensation for the runs taking such a long time. Make the runs quicker, and the rewards will be lowered.

Agreed for me and most of my fc its a case of if we don't need exp then the reward is not worth the hour it takes however that said shadowbringers gonna be making us do that msq roulette again

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Originally Posted by IntrovertAnt

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My first time experience was similar except that my group finished so fast I almost timed out of the instance in the middle of a cutscene. After the change to the cutscenes I was finally able to experience this content the way it was intended.

There are some interesting fixes suggested in the thread but tbh if one involves taking away the cutscenes and increased rewards just because I'm not new anymore then I don't want it. There are enough fast roulettes to do for experience and poetics. You don't need to do this one if the rewards aren't worth waiting out the cutscenes.

More and more people in this roulette who simply cannot be bothered to sit through the cutscenes, are now simply leeching off of those who want it over with. People decide to AFK, unable to vote kick them for being in combat. They all get the same rewards for doing absolutely nothing. Others are also abusing the loophole of disconnecting/reconnecting to the game, to skip cutscenes and pressing onward.

My suggestion is to allow non-skippable cutscenes IF there are ACTUALLY FIRST TIMERS in the instance. If that's too complicated or hard to code, make a main scenario roulette that has skippable cutscenes that shares the seem daily reward lock-out.
If that is also too hard/complicated to code, remove cutscenes all-togehter like it usually was, or change up the instance in the first place, rebuilding it from scratch.

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Originally Posted by ArcIgnis

My suggestion is to allow non-skippable cutscenes IF there are ACTUALLY FIRST TIMERS in the instance.

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I'm pretty sure we addressed this somewhere in the 100+ page thread.. But this would possibly encourage kicking 1st timers or leaving if 1st timers were in the run.

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Originally Posted by ArcIgnis

If that's too complicated or hard to code, make a main scenario roulette that has skippable cutscenes that shares the seem daily reward lock-out.

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Why? It's in the roulette to allow people progression clears and story completion. The actual rewards for doing it are pretty minimal without the huge roulette boost and there's no reason to give the boost if you allow skipping, this would create a crazy shortcut to leveling. Simply don't do this roulette if you aren't ok with the time investment vs the rewards.

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Originally Posted by ArcIgnis

If that is also too hard/complicated to code, remove cutscenes all-togehter like it usually was, or change up the instance in the first place, rebuilding it from scratch.

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.. usually was? It has always had the cutscenes since release. I also wouldn't consider going back to rework this a worthwhile investment of time vs working on new content everyone will enjoy. We've constantly been shown a limited resource pool for development being a thing with FFXIV, lets not sacrifice another instance or storyline to fix something that's easily ignorable and avoidable if you don't want to experience it more than once.

Sure I'm repeating this but...

The rewards are specifically tailored to it's long duration due to the cutscenes.
If you allow cutscenes to be skipped, in any capacity, then you have to reduce the rewards.

This means you effectively have two different options.
Long duration, big rewards.
Short duration, less rewards.

People will likely roll the roulette intending to get one or the other, and then when they get the one they don't want, will leave/kick to get the one they do want.
If it's two different options, then you may as well make that two different roulette options to ensure you roll for the content you want.

This then defeats the point of MSQ roulette, which is purely to fill queues for newbies.

As it stands, you know the roulette will take a considerable amount of time, you know what you're getting into, so you decide whether that's worth it.
If people are disconnecting to skip cutscenes, report them.

Pretorium (the longest one) is about 45' of time to complete.
A little bit more than two times the average 20' DF run (I'm sure someone then will post about "all my runs are 10' or less" in his dreaming server...).
Rewards are threefold+ the normal.
If you still complain, you have failed or skipped your math class.

As I see it the only way to fix it without punishing new players is making it a solo dungeon.
As it has been mentioned several times: if you make the cutscenes skippable if no new players are present, they will get kicked. I have seen players get kicked before the change for asking to watch the cutscenes.
While in theory it sounds as if lower rowards with skippable cutscenes and higher rewards with non-skippable cutscenes sounds like both are equally fine, one simply being faster than the other but the net reward gain/time is the same, in practise most people will aim for the short version to free up time for other things.

Solo dungeon or keep it as it is.
People know what's coming when they choose that particular roulette.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Sure I'm repeating this but...

The rewards are specifically tailored to it's long duration due to the cutscenes.
If you allow cutscenes to be skipped, in any capacity, then you have to reduce the rewards.

This means you effectively have two different options.
Long duration, big rewards.
Short duration, less rewards.

People will likely roll the roulette intending to get one or the other, and then when they get the one they don't want, will leave/kick to get the one they do want.
If it's two different options, then you may as well make that two different roulette options to ensure you roll for the content you want.

This then defeats the point of MSQ roulette, which is purely to fill queues for newbies.

As it stands, you know the roulette will take a considerable amount of time, you know what you're getting into, so you decide whether that's worth it.
If people are disconnecting to skip cutscenes, report them.

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Incentivizing people to just afk because they're so sick and tired of having to watch the exact same cutscenes over and over again on a daily basis is just bad game design.
The whole thing is just outdated at this point, they should just make it solo:able or let people vote at the start if they want to skip the cutscenes ( and make it so that you need 80% or something to say yes, I dunno ).

Yes yes, poor new players and all that.
But that's how it is.
In WoW the entire world of the game changed drastically and there is A LOT of content ( including story content ) that is no longer available or no one does it anymore.
I have loads of stuff on my original character that no one can get anymore because I played in Vanilla.

I don't think that everyone should have these rewards that basically feel mandatory dangled in front of their faces and be forced to sit through the same cutscenes over and over again which chances are every single person in the raid has already seen regardless just because some new people might not have seen them before.
MMO's are an evolving genre, they don't stay stagnant.
If you join later on you're going to miss content in every other MMO.
And I get that this is story content ( altho again this is a thing in WoW too ), but you can still watch the cutscenes regardless at any time if you want.

And you're also not experiancing it how it was intended to begin with which is an argument that people keep making.
It was never intended to be this thing that people just sprint through as quickly as possible, and the fights don't even really have any mechanics at this point they're just tank n spank.
The entire idea that people should '' get the intended experience '' is a thing of the past regardless of whether you force people to watch the cutscenes or not.

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

Pretorium (the longest one) is about 45' of time to complete.
A little bit more than two times the average 20' DF run (I'm sure someone then will post about "all my runs are 10' or less" in his dreaming server...).
Rewards are threefold+ the normal.
If you still complain, you have failed or skipped your math class.

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I honestly think that this is sorta just totally besides the point.
The problem is that the rewards are so good that you basically feel forced to do it, even if you don't want to.
And it's just bad game design because you feel forced to do something extremely boring that can eat up around an hour ( queues are a thing too ).
I don't think that basically holding super buffed up rewards hostage like this for the sake of making players participate in something extremely outdated is good game design.

Maybe it's a personality trait or something.
But I feel really forced into doing it every day because the rewards are so good.
I have a hard time rationalizing not doing it even tho I really hate it and don't want to do it and feel as if I am about to flip over my desk if I have to watch the cutscenes one more time.
I think that if a game makes you feel that way then it's poorly designed, especially when it's a repetitive daily thing and not a one time thing or a weekly.

Which btw, is another idea too.
If it was a weekly where you got an even bigger reward it wouldn't be as painful.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

Incentivizing people to just afk because they're so sick and tired of having to watch the exact same cutscenes over and over again on a daily basis is just bad game design.

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Then don't run the roulette?

You can cap on weekly tomestones in 2 or 3 days doing just Expert and 50/60/70 roulettes.
There's levelling up, but you can gain a level with the other roulettes each day, and that's not going to matter anyway once you get your jobs to 80.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

The whole thing is just outdated at this point, they should just make it solo:able or let people vote at the start if they want to skip the cutscenes ( and make it so that you need 80% or something to say yes, I dunno ).

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So people who vote no can be kicked?

Like I said, if you have two options, whether by voting, or by the presence of newbies, or whatever, then you may as well have two roulettes so you can choose which one to go into without messing about with voting or anything. At that point, you're not going to get people doing the one roulette that actually matters.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

The entire idea that people should '' get the intended experience '' is a thing of the past regardless of whether you force people to watch the cutscenes or not.

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This is still a Final Fantasy game. Story comes first, people want to experience the story as it was intended, not to watch cutscenes jumbled up in the Inn.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Then don't run the roulette?


So people who vote no can be kicked?

Like I said, if you have two options, whether by voting, or by the presence of newbies, or whatever, then you may as well have two roulettes so you can choose which one to go into without messing about with voting or anything. At that point, you're not going to get people doing the one roulette that actually matters.


This is still a Final Fantasy game. Story comes first, people want to experience the story as it was intended, not to watch cutscenes jumbled up in the Inn.

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You're just making up excuses and rationalizing poor game design.
I don't think that '' don't run the roulette '' is a good argument at all, especially not considering the rewards that we're talking about.
You're basically handicapping yourself by not doing it, and you shouldn't have to do that just to not go through this huge time sink slog on a daily basis. I think that's a very simple-minded way of looking at it and is just a way to hand-wave away issues and concerns...
I really don't see why this is hard to understand.

I also don't really think that people who vote no would be kicked, and I think that it should be set after people have voted so even then you wouldn't be able to revert it regardless of whether you kick them or not.
And I dunno about your experience with the game, but in my experience at least with the community I don't believe that people would give them crap for it. Especially not since I think that it'd be quite rare ( because the overwhelming majority of people have already done it a billion times before ).
I wouldn't, regardless of how much I don't like this thing.


And again I don't think that this whole '' experience the story as it was intended '' holds much water either.
Because you're not.
The fights basically have no mechanics and everything happens so quickly ( it's just the cutscenes eating up all of that time ).
Like are you being real here?
Are you really going to sit here and tell me that it was intended to play out the way in which it does in the roulettes nowadays?

It's almost like saying that if there was a roulette like this in WoW where people went through ICC only without having to do any mechanics or anything where you just rushed through it all quickly and tank n spanked everything = '' experiencing it how it was intended ''.
Are you actually missing out on anything if you watch it at the Inn than if you just sprint to the boss and tank n spank it in 1-2 minutes and then repeat again and again? What exactly are you missing out on that you wouldn't get by just doing it and then watching the cutscenes at the Inn?
What exactly is it that you're missing out on?

And even so you only do that one time, and how many in the group is it that haven't done it before?
It's very rare that you get grouped up with someone who haven't done it before, and after you've done it you'll be stuck in the endless cycle with the rest of us.
Why should 95% of people have to suffer through it on a daily basis just so that one or two people can rarely '' experience '' it '' how it was intended '' ( but not really ) only to then be stuck in the same cycle as everyone else afterwards?

Like I think that people are just trying to rationalize this so that they can hand-wave peoples concerns away instead of actually acknowledging that it's poorly designed.
Yeah, this is an FF game. But it's also an MMO and you're playing with other players.
MMO's aren't single-player games and you have to think about things in the context of a group of people trying to enjoy the game together.
If 9 out of 10 people aren't enjoying it for the sake of one person there is a problem.
One person wanting to sit through the cutscenes instead of watching them at the Inn just so that we can get back to sprinting to the next boss and fight it for 1-2 min before rince and repeat means that a whole bunch of people have to waste their time for the sake of one person who I don't even think is enjoying it to begin with even with how it is right now and who will just be the same as the rest of us afterwards anyways.

No, we know it's designed poorly. They've admitted as much themselves. but that's why it has to have it's own roulette.
If it was designed well, without loads of cutscenes in the middle of a dungeon, then it could be bundled into any other roulette and this wouldn't be an issue.

But none of your proposed 'fixes' are any better than what we already have, and we've explained why.

And "95% of people" do not "suffer" through this every day.

I've already mentioned there are better ways to get tomestones, exp is fleeting while you're levelling, and besides that, a minority of players even bother with MSQ roulette, and some of them, if not most, don't mind it.
It is not so rewarding that you can't make do without running it at all.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

You're just making up excuses and rationalizing poor game design.
I don't think that '' don't run the roulette '' is a good argument at all, especially not considering the rewards that we're talking about.
You're basically handicapping yourself by not doing it, and you shouldn't have to do that just to not go through this huge time sink slog on a daily basis. I think that's a very simple-minded way of looking at it and is just a way to hand-wave away issues and concerns...
I really don't see why this is hard to understand.

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... Nobody forces anyone to play the game a certain way. The rewards were increased to encourage people to run it. If you don't want to run it the way it is, you don't deserve the rewards. If you're gonna min/max your XP per second, this is the price. Don't buy the ticket if you don't like the ride. The entire problem is a perception one. You aren't forced to even play the game, let alone run this one dungeon. Handicapping what exactly?

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

I also don't really think that people who vote no would be kicked, and I think that it should be set after people have voted so even then you wouldn't be able to revert it regardless of whether you kick them or not.
And I dunno about your experience with the game, but in my experience at least with the community I don't believe that people would give them crap for it. Especially not since I think that it'd be quite rare ( because the overwhelming majority of people have already done it a billion times before ).
I wouldn't, regardless of how much I don't like this thing.

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considering people were kicked merely for suggesting taking time to let sprouts watch the cutscenes at least without smooshing it all together in an incomprehensible gobbledygook, i think you're wrong. I imagine loading in to a blue message that says "Vote skip or kick" wouldn't be unheard of. And honestly if you vote skip, the rewards should drop appropriately. You aren't paying the price, why should you get the payoff?

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

And again I don't think that this whole '' experience the story as it was intended '' holds much water either.
Because you're not.
The fights basically have no mechanics and everything happens so quickly ( it's just the cutscenes eating up all of that time ).
Like are you being real here?
Are you really going to sit here and tell me that it was intended to play out the way in which it does in the roulettes nowadays?

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The idea is at least people get to watch the whole cutscene. In the rushing days people would get glimpses of the cutscenes as people burned through every boss. You'd be 4 minutes into one and POOF, new cutscene.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

It's almost like saying that if there was a roulette like this in WoW where people went through ICC only without having to do any mechanics or anything where you just rushed through it all quickly and tank n spanked everything = '' experiencing it how it was intended ''.
Are you actually missing out on anything if you watch it at the Inn than if you just sprint to the boss and tank n spank it in 1-2 minutes and then repeat again and again? What exactly are you missing out on that you wouldn't get by just doing it and then watching the cutscenes at the Inn?
What exactly is it that you're missing out on?

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Context, setting, pacing. You actually get to see and fight the boss that walked up behind you or dropped from the sky. You get context as to WHY cid is riding Magitek now and what he did to get it. Where it all happens as opposed to "well.. now we're in an elevator of some sort.... somewhere.. "

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

And even so you only do that one time, and how many in the group is it that haven't done it before?
It's very rare that you get grouped up with someone who haven't done it before, and after you've done it you'll be stuck in the endless cycle with the rest of us.
Why should 95% of people have to suffer through it on a daily basis just so that one or two people can rarely '' experience '' it '' how it was intended '' ( but not really ) only to then be stuck in the same cycle as everyone else afterwards?

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They don't have to do it, they can do other things. MSQ roulette is a choice, not a requirement to enjoy the game.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

Like I think that people are just trying to rationalize this so that they can hand-wave peoples concerns away instead of actually acknowledging that it's poorly designed.

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Even the developers admit it was poorly designed, that's why they never made dungeons like that again and created a huge incentive to "suffer" through the long cutscenes.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

Yeah, this is an FF game. But it's also an MMO and you're playing with other players.
MMO's aren't single-player games and you have to think about things in the context of a group of people trying to enjoy the game together.
If 9 out of 10 people aren't enjoying it for the sake of one person there is a problem.

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And that problem is the 9 people who queued for something they didn't actually want to do and then they're gonna complain about it.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

One person wanting to sit through the cutscenes instead of watching them at the Inn just so that we can get back to sprinting to the next boss and fight it for 1-2 min before rince and repeat means that a whole bunch of people have to waste their time for the sake of one person who I don't even think is enjoying it to begin with even with how it is right now and who will just be the same as the rest of us afterwards anyways.

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No they don't. They don't even need to touch the roulette. Don't do the roulette if you don't like how it goes. It's not a surprise, it's not required, there's no XP "wave" you gotta ride to be competitive in this game.

Every single one of your problems could be solved by not doing the roulette and doing the other.. what.. 8? Or fates, or PoTD, or HoH. Stop acting like someone is holding a gun to your head.

They could, exclusively for those main scenario duties with a cut scene lock, implement some trusts, and nerf the trash mobs and remove the roulette.

Would make it more immersive for the newbies, and not feel underwhelming when they finally get to the conclusion of ARR and everything is just being burnt within seconds.

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Originally Posted by Emmanellain

They could, exclusively for those main scenario duties with a cut scene lock, implement some trusts, and nerf the trash mobs and remove the roulette.

Would make it more immersive for the newbies, and not feel underwhelming when they finally get to the conclusion of ARR and everything is just being burnt within seconds.

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This is the only thing that would work if you ask me.
But... there will be those who mourn the loss of the MSQ roulette rewards, those who don't mind running it.

While it would be great to have these retooled into solo instances, with maybe keeping Ulitma Weapon as a trial, the current situation is fine.

You don't HAVE to run msq roulette. Ever. There are other ways to get poetics, other ways to get exp. The rewards are as high as they are BECAUSE of the time investment. If you're going to gripe about it, just don't run it. And allowing people to skip cutscenes again would mean having to nerf the rewards because the runs would be fast again. If they implement cutscenes only being unskippable if someone is new, that could lead to people being kicked so people can finish faster.

Running Prae is annoying. I get it. I hate having Gaius and Lahabrea monologuing for so long. But if I don't feel like dealing with it, I can just NOT RUN THAT ROULETTE. Just as i don't run frontline roulette or alliance roulette on days I don't feel like dealing with them.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

Maybe it's a personality trait or something.
But I feel really forced into doing it every day because the rewards are so good.
I have a hard time rationalizing not doing it even tho I really hate it and don't want to do it and feel as if I am about to flip over my desk if I have to watch the cutscenes one more time.
I think that if a game makes you feel that way then it's poorly designed, especially when it's a repetitive daily thing and not a one time thing or a weekly.

Which btw, is another idea too.
If it was a weekly where you got an even bigger reward it wouldn't be as painful.

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Not poor design poor impulse control.

Ideally they woukd retune the fights to be solo-able for a level 50 and make it a solo instance. The cutscenes already make more sense as solo. The “canon” of these dungeons is that it’s just you or maybe you and cid. So just make the gameplay match that and remove them from roulette.

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Originally Posted by Makeda

Ideally they woukd retune the fights to be solo-able for a level 50 and make it a solo instance. The cutscenes already make more sense as solo. The “canon” of these dungeons is that it’s just you or maybe you and cid. So just make the gameplay match that and remove them from roulette.

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Actually the "canon" stated in the leadup is that you're leading a unit of adventurers into the castrum, thus the rare chance to see your party members in cutscenes.

(Don't think too hard about why they're not afterwards, I guesss...)

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

Even the developers admit it was poorly designed, that's why they never made dungeons like that again and created a huge incentive to "suffer" through the long cutscenes.

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Honestly, i come to think that that isnt true at all, ppl made it hell, the dungeons with story for the final was Epic and id love having that every expension. Sure the pacing is off and some stuff could be talked during our way but still... 8 man dungeons would be epic.
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Originally Posted by Kuroka

Honestly, i come to think that that isnt true at all, ppl made it hell, the dungeons with story for the final was Epic and id love having that every expension. Sure the pacing is off and some stuff could be talked during our way but still... 8 man dungeons would be epic.
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For a single player game it would be fine. (with the cutscenes skippable.)

For a multiplayer game, not so much. Especially given that, the way this game is designed, it relies on roulettes to keep people running old content so that new players/alts have an easy time getting into duties.

There's a very good reason they haven't repeated this mistake, and why all long cut scenes now play before or after a duty.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Actually the "canon" stated in the leadup is that you're leading a unit of adventurers into the castrum, thus the rare chance to see your party members in cutscenes.

(Don't think too hard about why they're not afterwards, I guesss...)

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I wonder did our 'buddies' also get magitek armors to ride away from the explosion at the end?

I just headcanon it that Gaius and then Ultima Weapon killed them all, leaving the WOL as the sole survivor of the mission.

Its kinda interesting that debate over the cutscenes of the two final MSQ dungeons of ARR is still ongoing. Maybe if they expand the trust system a bit over time this could finally be put to rest forever. New players could experience the story as it was intended in all its glory without the bosses dying before they realize whats going on, which might help some actually improve over all if NG+ doesnt. Could potentially allow a vote for cut scene skips in the duty and keep the rewards if the new people want to do with groups instead of trusts. Or this debate could go on til the death of the game... who knows.

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Originally Posted by Hawklaser

Its kinda interesting that debate over the cutscenes of the two final MSQ dungeons of ARR is still ongoing. Maybe if they expand the trust system a bit over time this could finally be put to rest forever. New players could experience the story as it was intended in all its glory without the bosses dying before they realize whats going on, which might help some actually improve over all if NG+ doesnt. Could potentially allow a vote for cut scene skips in the duty and keep the rewards if the new people want to do with groups instead of trusts. Or this debate could go on til the death of the game... who knows.

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Thats what people continue to fail to comprehend without it being a roulette that has no scene skipping allowed the rewards simply will cease to exist.

My canon is Gaius trying to recruit a short woman in a chocobo suit that holds the power of the universe.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

I also wouldn't consider going back to rework this a worthwhile investment of time vs working on new content everyone will enjoy. We've constantly been shown a limited resource pool for development being a thing with FFXIV, lets not sacrifice another instance or storyline to fix something that's easily ignorable and avoidable if you don't want to experience it more than once.

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I dunno, I'd really want to be able to recommend the game to new people without having to warn them about ARR's quality not being representative of the quality of the rest of the game.. (Not that that game needs an influx of player at the moment).
Also, the contention around those 2 duty really dims what's essentially the capstone of ARR's story arc

Honestly, SE should just spend the time to make a Trust setup for those two run so new player can enjoy it without being rushed.

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Originally Posted by Emmanellain

They could, exclusively for those main scenario duties with a cut scene lock, implement some trusts, and nerf the trash mobs and remove the roulette.

Would make it more immersive for the newbies, and not feel underwhelming when they finally get to the conclusion of ARR and everything is just being burnt within seconds.

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I fact, it would be SO satisfying to beat the wack out of Gaius with Thancred, Y'shtola, Papalymo and Yda.. Why not add Raubhan, Kan-E-Sanna and Merlwyb..

At the least, I think if there's no new players running it for the first time then it shouldn't be locked from cutscene skips.

But I'm sure that's a suggestion that's been around for years, and if they haven't conceded to that one yet then they're not likely to for it or anything else.

I did the the two dungeons the first time two days ago. Outside of skipping cutscenes or not (of which I have no real opinion), I think it would also have helped if the dialogues during the cutscenes were not at auto-speed but left manually controlled. Everyone reads at a different speed while keeping the same immesion level. The auto-speed (for lack of a proper name) felt also sometimes "choppy in that I wasn't sure if it was intended to be so or if I had lag.

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Originally Posted by Ardox

I dunno, I'd really want to be able to recommend the game to new people without having to warn them about ARR's quality not being representative of the quality of the rest of the game.. (Not that that game needs an influx of player at the moment).
Also, the contention around those 2 duty really dims what's essentially the capstone of ARR's story arc

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ARR's big problem isn't those two MSQ though, their quality is fine and if you're at that part in the story it's actually interesting. Their implementation is just horrid for replay. When I warn people about anything when joining the game it's the desert of filler between ARR and Heavensward. THAT really could be lost or at least condensed with little to no impact on the story.

So far when I've introduced people to the game it's not the MSQ gruesome twosome that they balk at , it's that nothing under 60 seems to be a challenge at all. If they spent anytime at all on reworking old content I'd want them to make ALL old duties more challenging by at least heavily scaling gear.