Warning for "Grief" Tactics?!

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Originally Posted by Rokke

For the 2nd time in this thread: this rule does not refer to leaving an instance or duty by the “leave duty” button. This rule is referring to one going afk or for trying to bypass the lockout timer by closing theme and forcing others to kick you. That is why the rule goes out of its way to mention that disconnects and real life things that might pull you away from your computer/console. ie. If you cannot or do not want to do X, leave when you're not in combat, take your lockout punishment & allow others to find a new member.

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Do you work for SE? Please stop acting like you wrote the ToS.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

You didn't direct this at me but I'm going to give my take since I do agree with IDontPetLalas on their examples. Sometimes there's someone that just can't stay off the floor and they're affecting your ability to adequately support the rest of the party. In those rare cases, they may need to stay dead until SC and MP allow for a quick raise. I might also consider mechanics coming up that I'm afraid they will raise right into. There is a period of invuln after a raise but a lot of people immediately move and that drops. And then they drop right away again.

In regards to being in Narnia, if I have a ranged or BLM over there and the party is here and needs my support, they may get a pity regen but my place is with the rest of the party and I can't put them at risk if that person chooses to be out of heal range.

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Originally Posted by Senn

How many deaths would it take for you to stop raising someone? I'm only curious, not trying to start anything. It's just that I have no recent memory of anyone dying more than 3 times in any of my parties. I mean, even twice is kind of rare.
I'm not talking about savage/extreme, that's a different story.

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I honestly don't have a specific number, it really depends strictly upon the context. I also ask myself how I would feel, i can remember my first DR run (OI) and am eternally grateful to the very classy people who raised me without complaint. I can only assume that they could see that I really was doing my best.

Part of the context, and in fact the reason i said that the person was being selfish, is that there is a party to consider. What if a few people start to have a problems? I cannot spend all of my attention on one person. Sometimes that person can't just catch onto a mechanic, or has horrible lag, etc. Maybe they just need to watch from the floor or worst case- leave . I'm not going to criticize them. Anyone can have a bad day.

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Originally Posted by AbysmalDuck

Do you work for SE? Please stop acting like you wrote the ToS.

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Did you not read the quoted text? This rule in particular goes out of its way to mention that life will sometimes pull your away from the game at inopportune times and the random dc or step away will not amount to anything BUT if GMs check your logs and they see you regularly/conspicuously "disconnect" or "afk" you will be punished. There is no reason to spread misinformation on the tos.

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Originally Posted by LittleChickenNugget

ITT: People who are report happy are offended that OP stated they can become report happy too.

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No people are just not painfully oblivious to the simple fact that the OP spent a good part of the original post bashing people for being too coddled and whining about every little slight, whilst then subsequently stating that they shall do the same.

I don't care if they're report happy afterwards, and arguably neither does anyone else. You need to have an incredible amount of irony points to write something like this. There's a particular word associated with people that will wilfully engage in the same behaviour that they're noted for criticising other people about.

Personally I'm not report trigger happy. The only time I use the report function is at genuine discomfort and not for the sake of it. Just have a certain accountability behind your actions when someone inevitably does report the behaviour, and don't criticise people for the self-same behaviour that you're going to exhibit or engage in. It's really just that simple. It's very bold of you to assume that people are report happy versus people just wanting some level of accountability behind their own actions where appropriate.

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Originally Posted by Rokke

Did you not read the quoted text? This rule in particular goes out of its way to mention that life will sometimes pull your away from the game at inopportune times and the random dc or step away will not amount to anything BUT if GMs check your logs and they see you regularly/conspicuously "disconnect" or "afk" you will be punished. There is no reason to spread misinformation on the tos.

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It also goes as far to say that it is their discretion, so you interpreting it for others does nothing in the grand scheme of things. It also says "intentionally leaving the game or" not "intentionally leaving the game by disconnection or force closure". Or is the big word here. It is left open to cast a wide net and you are intentionally trying to reel that net in. Just let the ToS be the ToS.

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Originally Posted by AbysmalDuck

It also goes as far to say that it is their discretion, so you interpreting it for others does nothing in the grand scheme of things. It also says "intentionally leaving the game or" not "intentionally leaving the game by disconnection or force closure". Or is the big word here. It is left open to cast a wide net and you are intentionally trying to reel that net in. Just let the ToS be the ToS.

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The keypoint is quite literally:

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KEY POINT:
Since the game relies on internet connectivity, it is inevitable that there will be network disconnections or real-life circumstances which prevent you from playing the game. As such, simply disconnecting or remaining inactive in the game will not result in a penalty. However, if a report is filed, a penalty will be issued if the following types of situations are confirmed to be occurring repeatedly.

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Per this rule’s elaboration & examples:
If you are reported and the GM sees that this was a one off event you are fine because life happens. If you are reported and the GM sees that you disconnect or suddenly stop pushing your buttons frequently at the start of “undesirable instances” or when your alliance wipes several times or when your feast team is clearly going to lose then there are grounds for deeming it less innocent.

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Originally Posted by Rokke

The keypoint is quite literally:

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Correct, when you look at those, as pasted below:

Occurs right after entering a duty
Occurs when progress is not going well in a duty
Occurs when the team is about to be defeated in PvP

...none of them refer to disconnecting, AFK'ing, or quitting the game. So, then you would refer back to another part of the article that states "intentionally leaving the game or disconnecting from the server". One side says "leaving the game". This could be exiting duty or it could mean literally closing the game with Alt+F4. The second part says "disconnecting from the server". Well, disconnecting from the server could mean logging off or closing the game, since when you close the game you are in essence logging off.

All that is to say, again, you and I aren't SE. Us interpreting the ToS is meaningless in the grand scheme of things, but ask yourself, why would they say "intentionally leaving the game or disconnecting from the server" if both things meant the same thing.

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Originally Posted by Rokke

The keypoint is quite literally:


Per this rule’s elaboration & examples:
If you are reported and the GM sees that this was a one off event you are fine because life happens. If you are reported and the GM sees that you disconnect or suddenly stop pushing your buttons frequently at the start of “undesirable instances” or when your alliance wipes several times or when your feast team is clearly going to lose then there are grounds for deeming it less innocent.

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Oh well, you obviously want to die on this hill, so go make an alt and exit out of a bunch of duties and let's see who's right since you are so adamant.

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Originally Posted by AbysmalDuck

Oh well, you obviously want to die on this hill, so go make an alt and exit out of a bunch of duties and let's see who's right since you are so adamant.

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Easier to admit you’re wrong. It’s pretty clear they will consider the consistency. See if youre a serial disconnector. That’s already been explained to you. Be humble. Looks like you’re just trying to drag out an argument

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Originally Posted by AbysmalDuck

Occurs right after entering a duty
Occurs when progress is not going well in a duty
Occurs when the team is about to be defeated in PvP

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Just an aside, the inclusion of this in the ToS is why I stopped queing for MSQ roulette. I'm one of those monsters who fished for Prae in the morning; taking the penalty and cutscenes to do chores and go through work emails. The time investment to reward made my decision to use my time doing this, but I simply just don't do it anymore because rules are the rules.

I don't see a reason to religiously leave an instance otherwise, and I can count the duties that have gone so south that I had to bail on one hand. No, taking 10 more minutes to clear isn't a reason to bail. With that in mind, seeing someone with a history of eating the penalty is going to speak for itself when a GM looks at your duty history.

Still not convinced this is why the warning was issued, however. Not even sure most people are aware you can even report for this.