SAMURAI SHOWDOWN

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Originally Posted by DWolfwood

Not really sure anyone forgot. In fact, there are other examples, but not sure what you're getting at. I myself want people to consider why we can or cannot have both a Shogun and Ronin job in the game rather than all the petty "Sam is a DPS because Yoshida said so" which isn't even true and the, "can we discuss more 'original' tanks in a SAM thread please?"

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What do you mean? This whole topic is all of us discussing what Samurai could be. You made it with that intention, so that's what I'm getting at. Nothing at all says "Yoshi-P must strictly adhere to historically accurate samurai when making a class." Dark Knight and Dragoon don't even exist, so there's no reason Samurai in a fantasy MMO have to be anything. They could be as unrealistic as his team wants it to be. It's fun to discuss either way.

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Originally Posted by Tanathya

You guys can't think outside the box is all I'm getting out of all of this. Not everyone, and especially those who say heavier armor = tanks only, and tanks = heavy armor only. Can I (we) have some much, much needed variety, please?

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If you deviate too from what a samurai is then it is no longer a samurai.

Variety is nice but not at the cost of the base idea.

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Originally Posted by Handheld

If you deviate too from what a samurai is then it is no longer a samurai.

Variety is nice but not at the cost of the base idea.

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Which has absolutely nothing to do with what I said.

In the FF franchise, what makes something a job is their signature abilities and to a certain degree (ones more than others), their weapons. Prime example is DRG, you can't call something a dragoon just because they wield a spear if you're not gonna give them Jump. Now, about this tank vs DD argument going on, stop this "heavy armor means it's only allowed to tank". By that logic (and the logic used before and after XIV), something wielding a big-as-me sword should be a massive damage dealer (and in this case, it really should've been), same with a great axe user. They already did that to DRK, which I'm not getting into *again*, let's not turn another armor user into a tank just because it uses armor. Let's focus on the weapon (which, mind you, is what this game is supposed to focus on, based on the Armoury system, and not the armor).

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Originally Posted by Jhett_Magnum

Er no, not to a science, but please enlighten me. I'm just curious about all this, because this job peaks my intrest more than RDM now.

Haha I knew trying my hand at lore would be catastrophic.

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The cometary was about that Anime pics that people was posting, maybe I should be more specific.

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Originally Posted by Xlantaa

The cometary was about that Anime pics that people was posting, maybe I should be more specific.

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Yeah it's whatever the Japanese decide they are - however they decide to represent them - as they no longer exist.

However a few key points would be they were essentially well trained soldiers that followed a certain moral code called "Bushido" and were weapons experts in several forms of combat including hand-to-hand martial arts.

All that said there is no, real, true "Samurai" nor is there a real, true, "Knight" as many-a-video and paper have explained. It's far too broad a term over far too broad a time period to say any one thing is a "proper" Samurai or Knight. There are just several incarnations over periods of time.

I feel like samurai is gonna be that charging heavy hitter DPS. I'm thinking along the lines of Jack from Type 0. Its attacks will be possible to charge by holding the skill down. Well some weapon skills will be chargeable. I also think Samurai will be more focused on crowd control. Something equivalent to SMN. Maybe primarily debuff and DOT based to fill in for the time while charging the attack. Also no flank/rear bonuses
I.e.
Shooting Star has a base potency of 290 has a 3 stage charge increasing potency by 200 for each stage.

Banishing Blade chargeable inflicts curse(lowers stats like virus)

Dragon Fang oGCD places 100 potency dot aoe to surounding targets for 18 sec enhanced 30s


Concentration/Focus chargeable attacks get a fourth stage.
Reflex- critical hit rate goes up.

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Originally Posted by Ciri_Wolf

What do you mean? This whole topic is all of us discussing what Samurai could be. You made it with that intention, so that's what I'm getting at.

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All you said was:

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Edit: Also, everyone seems to conveniently forget the series has already had a clothed Samurai without armor. Auron.

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So, I just don't really know what you're getting at here. Are you saying that because Auron, a character that is an homage to Ronin, wears light armor, that we should get a light-armored Samurai? Like I said, no one has forgotten any of this. One could say that you've forgotten that he's not specifically a Samurai, but an homage, whereas Cyan is quite literally a samurai in FF6, but it just so happens that in that universe, he wears knight armor. Auron was a warrior monk if you really wanna get into it.

Samurai have inspired many ideas for FF over the years, and there's a big variation between the Ronin types and the armor-clad types. None of it is any reason why it shouldn't be DPS or Tank. Everyone is too caught up in the little things instead of just looking at whether this game can handle 2 Samurai. Are there any DPS who after getting a Ronin job, would be pissed if they announced a Shogun tank? "Why?" is my question.

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Dark Knight and Dragoon don't even exist, so there's no reason Samurai in a fantasy MMO have to be anything. They could be as unrealistic as his team wants it to be. It's fun to discuss either way.

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Just for the record, Dark Knights and Dragoons are fantasy interpretations of real life things. I'm not saying things have to be historically accurate, and I've never said that because that would be boring. What I've done is bring in factual evidence when people make false, outrageous claims about "real life."

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Originally Posted by Krissey

All that said there is no, real, true "Samurai" nor is there a real, true, "Knight" as many-a-video and paper have explained.

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Samurai and Knights were a definable thing. Yes, they all had armor. The thing is, they didn't wear this armor all the time. It was almost exclusively reserved for the battlefield in the case of samurai. Things do get more complicated when you realize that the samurai were real people and could fall on hard times if they or their lord lost a battle, and they could thus be forced to sell their armor sometimes to make ends meet if they were no longer formally a samurai. In samurai culture, the "soul" of the samurai was his sword and many would rather die than sell it, some however would rather live than keep it. Samurai and Knights who no longer served a lord would lose their status, but like we say in the US about Marines as an example, "once a marine, always a marine," one could argue that they were still Samurai and Knights in all but title.

As for correct representations, yes there are tons of ways to portray them. My question is, do you think that if we got a Shogun tank, would a Ronin DPS be too much, considering we'd have a Samurai tank and two eastern DPS already?

I feel it's best suited to a medium-armored melee DPS (same as DRG). I see a lot of people taking things outside of the Final Fantasy context here...they, as far as I'm aware, universally use katanas in all other Final Fantasy games. They're not going to have bows, or some obscure Japanese weapon.

Also trying to imagine a Samurai in the existing shared tank gear is kinda...weird. Not that it couldn't happen because of that.

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Originally Posted by DWolfwood

All you said was:



So, I just don't really know what you're getting at here. Are you saying that because Auron, a character that is an homage to Ronin, wears light armor, that we should get a light-armored Samurai?

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What I'm getting at is that FFXIV's Samurai doesn't need to be heavily armored since FF series has already done Samurai without it. We could get either. And why would anyone be pissed if both DPS players and Tank players got a samurai class? That's a moot point anyway since Yoshi-P isn't going to do it, anyway. If we had it my way, there would be 2 samurai classes like you proposed. It won't happen so there's not a lot to discuss. I've also never used any of my reasoning to prove Samurai could or could not be DPS or Tank.

Samurai's key ability in all FF games has always been Bushido, or Zanshin. (Shin-Zantetsuken maybe?")
You can expect some sort of lineup of abilities from Samurai here.

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/L...#Katana_Skills