#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

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Originally Posted by Mercury_Grey

The dps having some healing br ok

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So a team like the following is ok? : War, GNB, Monk, Picto, Dancer and RDM....

Sorry, but as a healer i feel just completly useless with a party like that.

Nerfing the tank and DPS party mitigation would get the job done too. Although ... we immediately get met with resistance and backlash if that is the only method we use ... >.> It was what ForsakenRoe mentioned, so she thought that buffing the encounter damage more would be accepted more or not noticed as much. It may seem like a roundabout way to fix the problem, but maybe it can add some more new mechs for us to have fun with if Square can pull it off. Plus using only a full on nerf might have unintended consequences of making the easy soloing stuff more harder than intended. The solo instances would be okay with that WoL self heal buff, but other stuff like solo Hunts, Treasure Chests and FATEs may be a different story.

I can see the other side of it where the tanks and DPS do want to help somewhat with the damage taken too. We could find a midway point where all the roles can do something to help solve a mech. These are some other ideas to consider too. We may still need to consider slightly nerfing some mitigations and self heals, but it might only be a small amount if the encounters are actually hurting the tanks and party members enough. After all, accidentally making the self heals as pitiful as the 1K critical Physick SMN GCD heal is not a curse I want to inflict on anyone.

1. Increase the frequency of tank busters

The fact that the tanks can kitchen sink cooldowns and still be fine is a problem I can read. Typically, tanks are supposed to stagger their cooldown use one at a time for longevity rather than taking almost no damage for 10 - 20 seconds, then suddenly get hammered afterwards. It may still have to be frequent enough so the tanks don't just simply provoke swap every minute and still kitchen sink it. If we do want swaps, Warcraft often times used a stacking vuln debuff that lasted maybe 30 seconds that required switching at around 3. The consequences for messing up the swap too early or not doing so usually involves taking more than double damage or flat out dying at a full stack debuff. Yes, the Warcraft Paladins were able to bubble off the debuff (Divine Shield) and right click it off immediately, but it was a 5 minute cooldown.

2. Increase the boss' auto attack damage

This can be a simpler solution to encourage more use of spells like Regen and Aspected Benefic to counter it. The occasional Sacred Soil -> Lustrate and Taurochole -> Druchole can work to help mitigate this if it is doing significant enough damage to worry about it.

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Originally Posted by Lorika

I don't understand why people want to add layer upon layer upon layer of mechanic to fix healing. It's not the first time iwonder why, but it's the first time i voice it.
i think all your idea aren't the solution at all.

You just want to add new code into a game know to have a spaghetti code for years.... It's asking for bug, lag, dev taking even more time to to things, risk of mistake making some fight too hard and being nerfed later, rendering thoses mechanic near meaningless on other fight, even more unbalance between jobs etc... etc...

Why wanting to take the risk to make things even worse when the answer, the solution, the fix is way more simple : Tank and DPS just need to have their mit, self-heal/heal and potency nerfed. it's the most simple and efficient way to fix healing.

SE just need to roll back on the powercreep they created.

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I don't think it's a good idea to consider 'SE can't code without making a spaghetti mess' as a factor in whether an idea has merit or not. If we did, nothing would ever get added again, look at how jank most additions to the game have been. Glamour as a system was a hack job back in 2.3 and we're still paying the price for its implementation, for example, and since then rather than fixing it to work better, they've bandaid fixed the storage issue with Glamour Dressers. Nor do I think 'what if one job is better at solving the mechanic than another' is a factor, because A: To avoid 'one job is better than another' you'd have to have every job be entirely identical in their designs, and B: SE has made situations where one job is clearly better than another at solving a mechanic quite regularly, so long as every job can clear I don't think it matters so much if one job has a slight advantage at a mechanic. Look at AST in P3S vs WHM (which actually brought AST play rates up to WHM levels for that one fight), look at a great many fights that have 5 tankbusters, where WAR (and only WAR) can Holmgang 3 of them (this happened again with M3S, so it's not like that was just a Stormblood thing).

I hear a lot of people saying that 'the solution to make healers more engaging is to make us heal more'. The idea I posted would make people either heal more, or use Esuna more, both of which are 'what healers should be doing' according to some players. It being a separate system, I'd argue, would allow for more granularity on adjusting how much damage it does/how hard the fight is, not less. If SE were to just do a change like 'nerf healing power by 50%, nerf incoming damage by 25%' (such that we're effectively weaker at healing vs now), I think that runs at least the same risk of 'fight is too hard' (if not more), but also there's less dials to adjust to change the fight difficulty to a more satisfying level than current gameplay (but still clearable). Consider, as we get more gear currently, the healing challenge dissipates, because our heals get stronger AND the damage we take goes down (due to Defence/MagicDefence stats on gear). But an external mechanic like the suggested one, doesn't necessarily have to interact with the defensive stats. The mechanic that applies 50k of Aetherblight in Week 1 progression, could still apply 50k in full BIS, our healing power would go up, but the value to heal would not go down (unlike currently), making the content more resistant to 'being outgeared' in that regard

At this point, I don't even think complete removal of Tank/DPS party-mit/selfheal tools would solve the issue. Take WAR. Back in HW, they had Equilibrium (which they didn't want to use because in Deliverance it restored TP) and Inner Beast (which they didn't want to use because that's a Fell Cleave you're missing out on). If WAR were taken back to that point in terms of their party-mit/self healing capabilities, I don't think that really solves the Healer gameplay issues. Instead of using 5 of my SGE tools to get through a dungeon pull, maybe I use 7, or 8. But I have like 9 total tools, so my gameplay is still 'OGCD bullshit go' and then spam Dyskrasia. We can't just blame it all on BloodWhetting and the like, our own Healing kits are part of the problem too. I mean, look at DRK, back then in HW they had Dark Arts Abyssal Drain, which was functionally similar to what we now know as Bloodwhetting. But it wasn't really an issue back then, and it IS an issue now. What changed? How much extra stuff we have access to with an additional 40 levels of kit would be a factor I expect

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Originally Posted by Lorika

So a team like the following is ok? : War, GNB, Monk, Picto, Dancer and RDM....

Sorry, but as a healer i feel just completly useless with a party like that.

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That's a lot of healing and mitigation across that party, yes. Now imagine we remove all of the mits, and raidwide healing actions from that team. So, WAR loses SIO and Nascent Flash (they can only heal themselves with BW/Equil), GNB can only self-target Aurora and loses Heart of Light. Monk loses the Earth's Reply heal (it can keep Mantra since it's been there since ARR), PCT loses Star Prism's heal and Tempera Grassa (it can keep the self-shield), DNC loses Curing Waltz, Improvization and Shield Samba, and RDM loses Magick Barrier's 10% mit (it can keep the healing+ since it's basically another Mantra). Okay, with all of that stuff removed, how do I as a healer, tackle Worqor Lar Dor EX? TBH, basically the same, but I press a Medica3/Aspected Helios every now and then to keep up with the DOT.

So, after all of that, the net result of the changes listed is that our gameplay now includes an occasional Medica3 that wasn't there before. I don't think that'd really solve much. Plus, old content has been designed with those mits on non-Healers in mind, so removing them means having to go back and check old content to make sure it can be cleared with the changed job kits, and the added pressure on the healers to do all of the mitting/shielding, and that sounds to me like it might cause 'risk of mistake making some fight too hard and being nerfed later'

sry for doublepost the other one is very long

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Originally Posted by Tigore

Nerfing the tank and DPS party mitigation would get the job done too. Although ... we immediately get met with resistance and backlash if that is the only method we use ... >.> It was what ForsakenRoe mentioned, so she thought that buffing the encounter damage more would be accepted more or not noticed as much. It may seem like a roundabout way to fix the problem, but maybe it can add some more new mechs for us to have fun with if Square can pull it off.

1. Increase the frequency of tank busters

2. Increase the boss' auto attack damage

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We've seen in this very thread, many Tank players have not taken kindly to the suggestion that their fun (read: healing for their whole HP bar each GCD with Bloodwhetting) has to be impacted, in order for the Healer role to have more fun added to it. An external system would stand a much stronger opportunity to be accepted as a way to rein in the power level of these non-Healer actions, without directly reining them in via numerical tuning or outright removal.

Here's an example: Think about Interruptible Actions. The first pack in Dohn Mheg, you can Interrupt one of the enemies to prevent it from empowering one of the plant thingys. Or Hermes in Ktisis Hyperborea. If the Tank does the Interrupt, the amount of healing we have to do as Healers is directly affected, they do less damage because the cast was Interrupted and they didn't get a damage+ buff. But we never say 'damn that Tank's taking all the fun out of my job by Interrupting that add' because it's an external mechanic that is dedicated to being 'Tank gameplay'. So, if such a thing existed for Healers, an external mechanic that any role can try to participate in and help out, but only a Healer can truly resolve (EG a Tank can apply a barrier to block the effect on themselves, but they cannot get all 8 players every time it's applied due to the CD), then I think that stands to be much more accepted by all sides of the playerbase, as Healers would feel they've got a mechanic dedicated to their role to solve, and NonHealers would feel that they can use their utilities to help out at times (without solving the mechanic completely on their own). But EG: in a situation where A BRD clears their own Aetherblight because they used Warden's Paean on themselves, I expect they'll think 'hell yeh I was able to use this utility for this mechanic that's cool', not 'damn this sucks why can't I use this action on everyone and do the healer's job for them'

As for 1: I've never understood why we have a CD of 25s on Provoke. If it were say, 10s, it'd allow us to have more fast paced tankswapping in certain encounters. Not that every fight has to have faster-paced tankswapping, but it'd be nice to have the design option available

As for 2: If an enemy were to apply 50% of their attack as actual damage, and 50% as the Aetherblight debuff, we could see a fight design where the tanks have to swap because of the building debuff, and once they swap, the tank who has aggro will be building up Aetherblight from taking autoattacks while the 'offtank' would be healing their own Aetherblight away with their selfhealing tools. And this would allow certain design elements, such as how WAR's Nascent Flash allows them to heal both their own Aetherblight, but also helps their co-tank's Aetherblight level stay lower (meaning they don't have to swap back as fast). Or Cover from an OT PLD could allow the MT to get some extra seconds to clear some of their Aetherblight (and not build more because the PLD's taking it), extending their time as the MT for a bit longer, etc.

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

Now imagine we remove all of the mits, and raidwide healing actions from that team.

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Where did i say remove?
I said nerf, it's completly different.

Roe was brainstorming an extreme example and said such an example would probably just barely help increase the healing we need to do by itself. We might also need to advocate the removal of some of our own oGCD heals and cooldowns in addition to the extreme nerfs on the tanks and DPS if we only go down the path to only nerfing. As such, increasing the encounter damage looked like a better idea to focus on first so the nerfs do not have to be severe.

As for the 25s cooldown Provoke, the only reason I can think of would be because the Warcraft tanks once started ping ponging a boss on a big arena when the boss was entering their damage plus phase. They understood that it was hell on melee DPS, so they started to burn through their defensive cooldowns first. Once both tanks did so, they started playing piggy-in-the-middle and favored ranged DPS more to reduce the effect this would have on the DPS. Blizzard had to add in a taunt immunity after maybe 5 quick consecutive swaps over time to prevent the boss looking foolish running back and forth. It was either that or make the boss fiendishly fast with the running.

Other than that, I would like to see some actual tank swaps for our encounters with 2 tanks. The off tank is 90% of the time just another DPS since they are just there in case something screws up to kill the main tank. We do have tank busters hitting both of them, but it generally just happens on the "final trial boss". Even our 12th normal final boss from our last expansion 8 player raid didn't really do anything specifically important for the off tank. I was able to use things like Nascent Flash on the main tank, but that was it and it likely compounded the issue even more with healers almost not needing to heal the tanks. Shirk and turning off tank stance was used quite often since I was able to out pace the threat of other tanks half the time. I elected to use the healing utilities like Nascent Flash more so when someone was getting raised.

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Originally Posted by Lorika

Where did i say remove?
I said nerf, it's completly different.

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I think their point was that to have a meaningful effect on typical parties' GCD healing usage, you would essentially need to nerf the likes of Shake it Off, Clemency, Divine Veil, Passage of Arms, Curing Waltz, Reply if Earth, etc., across that comp to the point that their holders would rather not have them bloating their bars at all -- i.e. effectively removing them.

Which then means the nerf/gutting/removal would be likely be an incomplete solution anyways (as even with the nerfs we'd still spend the vast majority of our time spamming Malefic) despite stripping a form of engagement from said jobs and reducing the number of ways non-healers can differentiate their support/utility from one another.

So we'd end up degrading gameplay elsewhere just to have less of an effect than we'd have by just... increasing effective sustain requirements with the least possible side effect (e.g., through a greater number of damage events rather than the damage of each event).

Then again, i said nerf, not nerfing to the ground
Since Shake it off was took an exemple, just revert back to the way it was at the start : without the group heal.
Remove the level 94 boost of Second wind, make some CD longer, remove some potency, remove some stack.

Make the skills still usefull, but less powerfull.

I mean, right now, eveyrthing is done for transforming FFXIV into GWXIV

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Originally Posted by Lorika

Then again, i said nerf, not nerfing to the ground
Since Shake it off was took an exemple, just revert back to the way it was at the start : without the group heal.
Remove the level 94 boost of Second wind, make some CD longer, remove some potency, remove some stack.

Make the skills still usefull, but less powerfull.

I mean, right now, eveyrthing is done for transforming FFXIV into GWXIV

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Nerfing the regen off shake it off would do nothing to change the nature of the skill for example

That’s the problem here, damage is already so low that tanks and DPS having ANYTHING is going to immediately infringe on the healers

The only thing that would be “enough” to fix the healers with the current damage output is to delete everything off the non healers. Even with no regen (or even upfront heal) on SIO that’s one less GCD heal or mitigation the healer has to apply and with how little damage comes out that’s just less actions for the healer

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Originally Posted by Lorika

Then again, i said nerf, not nerfing to the ground

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Then you'd add maybe... 1 AoE heal per average minute, if that -- so, maybe up to 4% fewer casts spent just on Broil? Which is negligible.

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1. Since Shake it off was took an exemple, just revert back to the way it was at the start : without the group heal.

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The majority of its strength is still the initial mit.

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2. Remove the level 94 boost of Second wind

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Given Maim and Mend, this amounts to less than a Cure per fight.

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3. make some CD longer

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Then you run the risk of making it not an available tool at all against many sequences of attacks, which effectively removes its engagement. These matters quantize.

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4. remove some potency

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See #2.

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5. remove some stack

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I'm guessing you mean charges, as none have stacks. See #3.

You've noted that others have focused too much on messing with outlying opportunities instead of dealing with the simple, core issues, but you're doing the same thing here yourself. There's not enough sustain among the tools you aim to nerf, even if you were to remove them outright, to --in forcing that healing from healers instead-- reduce healers' portion of uptime spent on spammy or on-CD attacks to below some two-thirds in a typical fight.

So you will have have further homogenized and simplified gameplay among many non-healers... only to make a clearly insufficient difference, if any, among healers.

In terms of not using our healing GCDs I think the truckload of oGCD healing we've got is more the problem than anything else right now. I've tried healing Chaotic a few times, and some of the strats, the mixed item levels, and the amount of mistakes (towers) that can happen make it much easier to run out of oGCDs, and I've consistently had to resort to casted heals so my GCD usage has been quite a bit more mixed there. I'm sure I'm also overhealing quite a bit but I also don't trust a 24-player pug group enough to not do that.

It takes that much chaos to make the role engaging. Maybe if we learned another attack or two instead of yet another heal every 20 levels we'd have a better balance of skills.

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Originally Posted by Lorika

Then again, i said nerf, not nerfing to the ground
Since Shake it off was took an exemple, just revert back to the way it was at the start : without the group heal.
Remove the level 94 boost of Second wind, make some CD longer, remove some potency, remove some stack.

Make the skills still usefull, but less powerfull.

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As others have pointed out, the point I was trying to illustrate is, if we can outright remove these non-healer actions like SIO, Second Wind etc, and it has very little/no tangible improvement to our healer gameplay, then nerfing the actions (less removal of power compared to removing the actions) would have even less effect on our healer gameplay. It's not just that Shake It Off now heals for a total of 800p that is causing our healer gameplay to stagnate, it's the addition of things like 'here's a free 10% boost to healing to anyone in Asylum' or 'here's 500p of regen if you stand in Soil/Kera', or 'here's 2000p of healing that you can use versus multi-stacks/DOTs (Lilybell)'. That last one is especially egregious, as what used to be 'ok it's time to use Cure3 a couple of times', and thereby involved the slightest amount of MP management (can I afford Cure3 here or should I use Medica as it costs less), now it's 'use funny plant'

It's all well and good saying 'nerfing/removing Tank/DPS utility actions would make us have to press healing GCDs more' and while it might be true in the literal definition of 'is this statement true or false', a solution that decreases my Broils per minute from 22 to 21 (or even, let's say 18) is not really a 'solution' IMO, as even at 18 per minute that's 75% of my GCDs being used on the same action per minute

As for your example of SIO, removing the healing and making it just the barrier effect again, the reason they added the healing (specifically the HOT part, few people seemed to complain about the initial healing when that was added) was because SIO sucked, pretty badly, against Bleed-raidwides in Abyssos. Removing it entirely wouldn't solve anything for healers, and would just make WAR 'not as good' vs Bleed-Raidwides or Multistacks, leading to outrage from WAR players for no gain to anyone else. I agree that it could be changed in its effect though, so as to retain its current power, but change how it interacts with our HP bar. I'd make it like Panhaima, so rather than the barrier, 300p of healing and 5 ticks of 100p regen, I'd have it as the initial barrier, then 300p of healing once that barrier is destroyed, and 5 stacks of 100p barrier Panhaima style after the initial barrier breaks. This makes the burst heal contingent on timing, makes it thematic as the heal triggers when you 'shake off the damage' you took that broke the barrier, and the Panhaima style barrier protects from DOTs/multistacks without encroaching on Healer responsibilities (because if a stack is not consumed by damage and expires, it doesn't heal the HP bar of the person it was on, unlike the current regen)

Same for the Equilibrium HOT, 5 stacks of a self-Haima for 300p per layer, instead of 1500p of Regen

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Originally Posted by Azurarok

Maybe if we learned another attack or two instead of yet another heal every 20 levels we'd have a better balance of skills.

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Recently, I've been thinking (to myself) about this whole "healer DPS kit" thing in two ways:

1. Animations matter. PCT's filler pseudo-combo, PLD's Atonement (as of Dawntrail) and Blade pseudo-combos, these are all mechanically 1-1-1, but the animations vary and thus distract from the mechanical simplicity. For healers, I think there's a relatively easy win to be had here, even if it doesn't address any core issues.

2. It's about "dimensions" or "building blocks" or "interactions", not literal attacks. PCT shows us how we can have an interesting DPS kit without relying on a large number of buttons. Pseudo-combos certainly help with that, but I think it's also helpful to look at the leveling experience:

• Lv.30 First motif.
• Lv.50 Second motif.
• Lv.60 Subtractive palette.

Each of those adds what I might call a new "dimension" or "building block" that breaks up PCT's 1-1-1 filler. The healers don't need to copy PCT's literal mechanics, but their leveling experience should similarly introduce a new dimension or two to the DPS kits.

The closest we currently have on healers might be WHM's Afflatus Misery (Lv.74) and AST's cards (Lv.30), both which I feel are underdeveloped as DPS mechanics. Dawntrail gave the healers new damage actions, but not a new dimension.

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Originally Posted by AmiableApkallu

1. Animations matter.

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I've voiced this quite a few times but I'm not a fan of PCT's 1-button combo system since Water in Blue functions to add gauge, and I have a harder time tracking where I am in the combo with it. I do want earth and wind spells back on WHM, but I prefer their purpose to not be just for flavor on a spam button also.

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2. It's about "dimensions" or "building blocks" or "interactions", not literal attacks.

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It doesn't necessarily need to be a new button, it can be traits or adjusting what we currently have and when we learn them too. Like with WHM I wish we'd have Afflatus Misery at least within the same expac as when we unlock lilies, learned Glare~GlareIV as a proc skill from using casted heals (with 100% proc rate when used with Thin Air) instead of it replacing Stone, gotten a trait that grants stacks of Glare with PoM, then a trait to shorten PoM's recast to 60s.

@ Lorika

I understand that you want the simplest solution possible so the healers are fixed quickly. Our problems are more deep rooted than the WAR taking our role though.

The relative damage thrown out to the parties obeying dance mechs still feels like it's barely over what occured for ARR and Heavensward. We have more dance mechs, yes, but the damage they deal to the party is "not reliable" so to speak. The goal is to take zero damage from them still. We probably have double to triple the healing output we did compared to ARR as well.

We can still keep some dance mechs. I understand they are there to hold everyone accountable for paying attention the best they can... With some forgiveness for first timers and lag. The Devs may need to take notes from the trial perma DoT, the multi hit tank buster in our current Savage and the level 95 final dungeon boss. More damage needs to be unavoidable if they want us to use the higher healing power given to us.

Since Max HP is currently capping how we can do this, they may need other methods to bypass this like multi hits, raising Max HP and using special mechs like Roe's Aetherblight. Maybe even use debuff enfeeblements when we are in a fight that shrinks us as an example. A certain boss in the World of Darkness Alliance Raid comes to mind here >.>

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Originally Posted by Tigore

A certain boss in the World of Darkness Alliance Raid comes to mind here >.>

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Getting belly is the most fun part of this raid :p
And you get a damage down debuff when you are under Mini

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Nerfing the regen off shake it off would do nothing to change the nature of the skill for example

That’s the problem here, damage is already so low that tanks and DPS having ANYTHING is going to immediately infringe on the healers

The only thing that would be “enough” to fix the healers with the current damage output is to delete everything off the non healers. Even with no regen (or even upfront heal) on SIO that’s one less GCD heal or mitigation the healer has to apply and with how little damage comes out that’s just less actions for the healer

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I wouldn't call the damage "low", if it were actually low you wouldn't need things like SiO, Reprisal, Addle, Feint or Shield Samba to get through raid wide AoEs without someone kissing the ground.

I would call it "too infrequent" because once you've made sure to survive the AoE in the first place there is nothing else happening for a good minute.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

I wouldn't call the damage "low", if it were actually low you wouldn't need things like SiO, Reprisal, Addle, Feint or Shield Samba to get through raid wide AoEs without someone kissing the ground.

I would call it "too infrequent" because once you've made sure to survive the AoE in the first place there is nothing else happening for a good minute.

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Which is bizarre, because occasionally they have a flash of design where they do 'small damage amounts, but very fast' like Barb EX, but so often they seem to end up just falling back to the tried-and-tested (and thoroughly worn out at this point) design of 'raidwide damage hits you for 115% of your Max HP (forcing you to use multiple mitigations to barely survive it), then nothing really happens for another 30s'. Like, look at M4S, after the second big raidwide (the Wrath of Zeus after the Witch Hunt stomps), which happens at 1:40ish into the fight, you have until 2:15 before the spread/stack damage of 'stand in the safe corner for Electrope Edge' hits you. That's 35s of the boss doing nothing but autoattacks vs the MainTank, and channelling random castbars which don't do damage, instead only setting up aspects of the mechanic (eg Electrope Edge summons the cubes in the corners, Witchgleam is the lines toward the cubes that we can simply avoid standing in, etc), but during this time even the MT isn't taking damage because the boss is busy casting.

They should consider having bosses have an invisible add that handles doing the autoattacks, such that when the boss starts a castbar it doesn't stop autoattacking the MT for 5 seconds at a time. I remember P3S had such a thing, where whoever was 2nd on threat would get autoattacked by the little black orb thingys while #1 on threat would get attacked by the main boss, so it'd be something similar to that

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Originally Posted by AmiableApkallu

lol. At one point, I had a mind to file that as a bug report. (But then, doing my day job when I'm not actually at work struck me as Not Fun, and I let it drop…)

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I tried... :p:p:p

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Originally Posted by AmiableApkallu

I tried... :p:p:p

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At least with Seraphism removing Male Au Ra jaws entirely, it was limited to one race, one gender of that race, and possibly one specific jaw shape/face option etc. Very specific conditions that may have somehow slipped past QA

But with this Medica 3 animation, it's like this on every race, every gender. The only way for it to have got through like this is that either they didn't test it at all, or that it's somehow intentional that it's just two old animations stitched together

I'd chalk that one up to pure ignorance.

I'm sure a modder would know better but I believe the game has casting animations and executing animations as separate things, and just blends the animations when the cast finishes and the spell goes off. So it uses the same cast animation as Holy and Glare and switches to the execution animation used for Regen and such. They must've never bothered to make an actual animation for it and just went with the usual healing spell one. They probably should've just gone with HolyIII's.

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Originally Posted by AmiableApkallu

I tried... :p:p:p

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It might be better to attach a gif or link/record a video when reporting what you believe is bugs to better communicate it? (I don't have WHM at 100)
It got chucked in insufficient info then they probably didn't understand/see what you meant rather than 'working as intended' which means it truly is a feature not a bug?

As someone who used to gpose back when I was in HW/SB alot of casting/combat animations look kinda cursed....

I always try to include pics/vids and detail my bug reports because I don't know if I'm communicating it properly, I don't know if the person reviewing the bug understood what I meant. Sometimes, even when thorough, it gets chucked into working as intended despite it not making much sense. I'm guessing those fall into nitpicks rather than bugs.

Edit:
In the insufficient information forum the stickied thread is
Bug reports that do not follow the report template or are lacking the required information will be moved here.

Example
This is technically a nitpick despite being thorough but felt like a bug (chucked into working as intended), copium that graphical update to eulmore will fix it
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...elicts-Eulmore

Actually a bug
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-when-blinking
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ed-to-his-head
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...pper-La-Noscea

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Originally Posted by Azurarok

I'd chalk that one up to pure ignorance.

I'm sure a modder would know better but I believe the game has casting animations and executing animations as separate things, and just blends the animations when the cast finishes and the spell goes off. So it uses the same cast animation as Holy and Glare and switches to the execution animation used for Regen and such. They must've never bothered to make an actual animation for it and just went with the usual healing spell one. They probably should've just gone with HolyIII's.

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You are correct. The game does have separate casting & release animation.

I’d concur it’s a good excuse to reintroduce Aero III’s release animation considering how they both has the same floating casting animation. All that’s left is to replace the Cure/Regen release animation into the good ol’ cane twirling animation.

But I’m sure somewhere within SE are screaming “Aero III is just a fever dream. It’s not real. Forget about it pls.”

It’s amazing that even though aero 3 they refuse to admit exists they still won’t use its twirling cane animation for literally any other skill

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

It’s amazing that even though aero 3 they refuse to admit exists they still won’t use its twirling cane animation for literally any other skill

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https://i.gyazo.com/9193694db3735403...afd9e8e20a.png

(It's Krile at the start of Tower of Zot, an Endwalker dungeon)

Not to mention Y'shtola uses it when healing 6.x dungeons, including cane twirl and all

Well a little Q&A happened http://blog.livedoor.jp/umadori0726/.../62052668.html

Here was this little tidbit right here

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Q8: Will we have rework on WHM?
Answer: On your question on WHM rework, it's hard to define what exactly rework is. While there will be adjustments, if you're asking about what will be changed, then we are considering a lot of changes including other jobs as well. While this will take a while, we plan to make it a reality one day

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Make of it what you will.

Isn't this the same dev team that has "reworked" several jobs by now? And they can't define "rework"?

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Originally Posted by Alice_Rivers

Isn't this the same dev team that has "reworked" several jobs by now? And they can't define "rework"?

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Alternatively, we could think about it in reverse: IIRC they referred to the NIN change of 5.1 (making Ninjutsus GCDs to avoid the clipping issues the job had to battle) as a rework, and all in all that was quite small a change (in the scope of the entire job kit). If that counts, but they aren't sure that the term 'rework' applies to their plans for WHM, it could be that their planned changes for WHM are so few/so small, they don't rise to the level of 'rework' (specifically, SE's definition of the word), and instead fall under 'standard patch changes/numerical balancing changes'.

In which case, the response is PR speak for 'well, no, we will buff WHM a bit, but we won't be deviating from the design we've given it', so we can look forward to another few years of WHM being inflexible, one-track-focused on HPS and little else, lacking mitigation options, and generally being outshone by AST on pretty much every measurable performance metric.

But, since their idea for the AST rework was to effectively 'make it not-AST' to an extent (by removing the inherent randomness of drawing cards from a deck), I dunno what they'd even do to WHM with a DT-AST amount of reworking. Maybe it'd end up with single target buffs called Bravery and Faith that you alternate between each minute, that buff the damage of a Melee and a Ranged by 6% for 15s

1016 padges and nothing more then a dead horse being necrobumped again and again by trolls who are borded out of their minds

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Originally Posted by george357

1016 padges and nothing more then a dead horse being necrobumped again and again by trolls who are borded out of their minds

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Can't really call that necro, the thread barely touched 2nd page.

Anyway, congratulations on 1K+ ; let's hope there'll be no need to reach 2K ^^

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Originally Posted by Calysto

let's hope there'll be no need to reach 2K ^^

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Either it will reach the 2k or it will be nuked and a #2 will be created instead
And no, i'm not pessimistic, i'm realist :p

I’d say 8.0 is still like, a year and a half away, this thread reaching 2000 pages is chillingly plausible lol.
What else are healers supposed to during the 3 years of downtime/filler spam they get every fight lol

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Originally Posted by Connor

What else are healers supposed to during the 3 years of downtime/filler spam they get every fight lol

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Heal on my holy priest instead.

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Originally Posted by NamiRocket

Heal on my holy priest instead.

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I love how GW2 has the opposite thing where multiple spec-setups that aren't a designated healer (which only Druid is) end up being healbots. And here we have 4 designated healers, none of which ever spend GCDs healing if they can avoid it.

Heck, even the 'Healer' role in a minigame for OSRS, which is very hamfistedly implemented because OSRS isn't built around the trinity, can feel more engaging than Healer here.

At Level 1 in the role (of which there are 5), you heal for 5 HP each time you use your healing potion flask on an ally. Each 'heal' instance can only occur once per 'tick' (actions are processed once per 0.6s), effectively giving you a GCD of 0.6s. Your flask can only hold 4 charges of 'healing', and must be refilled from a pool at the south of the arena when it runs out. The last wave of the minigame has a boss that summons adds (once per 6s, with a maximum of 4 adds active at once), each of which can hit you for up to 7 damage. Additionally, the boss itself can hit you for up to 13, and attacks everyone at once. For players who come in unprepared in terms of defences, trying to just get one run on each role done for a certain reward (a chestpiece we call the Fighter Torso, that boosts your melee damage a little bit), it's easy for them to get torn to shreds by the rapid attacks in the final wave.

In addition to all of that, though, the Healer STILL has to do damage to enemies. Their job is to target enemy Healers and feed them poisoned food to poison them (and spamming it causes instant poison damage, to speed kills up). The 'correct food' also cycles once per minute, and so you have to watch out for what is called out by the Defender role player as the correct item to use. Additionally, the Healer has to call out what they're seeing is the correct bait for the Defender role to use for their part of the fight (baiting Runners into traps)

Point is, even in an MMO that doesn't have a dedicated Healer role in 99% of the gameplay (it's literally one minigame), healing gameplay in that one instance feels far more hectic and engaging. And I think there's several aspects that feed into why that's the case.

Number one is that the healing flask is singletarget, and the damage occurs to all players, making it AOE. We in FFXIV have so much access to, not only AOE healing, but strong, cheap, accessible-often AOE healing, that it's easy to counteract the incoming damage even if it is AOE in nature.

Secondly, our 'damage rotation' in OSRS has the bare minimum of 'dynamism' to it, by reacting to which food is the correct one to poison the enemy. In FFXIV, it does not matter what enemy we fight, we press Glare. There's no 'choose between Stone/Aero/Water based on what element is empowered currently' or similar, it's just 'press this one button, and press it a lot'.

Thirdly, there's been constant reductions in interplay between us, and our allies. In OSRS, the Healer calls out what the Defender uses for Bait, the Defender calls what the Healer uses to poison the enemy. The Collector calls what style of attack to use as an Attacker, and the Attacker calls what Egg colour is safe to pick up as Collector (to then fire from a cannon to help whichever role is struggling, I guess D/H/A/C would be like Tank/Heal/DPS/Support). In FFXIV, however, the more healing and mitigation that non-Healer roles get, the more it feels like they can simply replace the Healer entirely. We see this occur in EX roulettes already, with players running 1 WAR and 3DPS to speed up the runs. In OSRS, while it is possible for anyone to use the Cannon and use Red Eggs to damage and kill any straggling enemies (eg a Runner got past the traps), not only does it require a Collector specifically to load the cannon (only Collectors can pick up the eggs without them exploding), but the cannon also doesn't replace any of the other roles because you need all four roles to do steps to prepare the 'final weapon' to tackle the last boss, and not having a role means the fight is simply impossible

TLDR point and click medieval cookie clicker game figured out how to make Healers feel relevant and required back in 2007

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

TLDR point and click medieval cookie clicker game figured out how to make Healers feel relevant and required back in 2007

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You can go even more back in time. the first GW for exemple. After all the healer, monk, could heal while attacking or using conditioning healing (in fact there was, at some point, a farming meta build with monk, with which you were almost naked with very low HP but you were constantly healing and protecting yourself while attacking)

But around 2010, a lot of dev tried to get rid of the holy trinity, or to render it less immportant (GW2 being more or less the lead of this trend)
They didn't want an heavy setup like on the old school MMO (like on Lineage II were a full xp group of 10 person with 1 tank, 1 off-tank, 1 healer, 1 buffer, 1 crowd controller and 5 DD.... And with a buffer that only buffed every 30 minutes and after that was sitting for mana recovery until the next buff session).

Right now, was i'm seeing, is FFXIV leaning more and more on the GW2 style.

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Originally Posted by NamiRocket

Heal on my holy priest instead.

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Got to admit, I laughed.

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

They should consider having bosses have an invisible add that handles doing the autoattacks, such that when the boss starts a castbar it doesn't stop autoattacking the MT for 5 seconds at a time. I remember P3S had such a thing, where whoever was 2nd on threat would get autoattacked by the little black orb thingys while #1 on threat would get attacked by the main boss, so it'd be something similar to that

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That would certainly help at least a bit. You can see glimpses of it in M4S phase 2 where there are actually longer stretches of the boss just auto attacking both tanks and them actually dropping quite a bit.
Granted it's still pretty easy to handle with things like Bloodwhetting and Rampart completely free to use on autos (since you never need the latter for the buster), but that's more than the rest of the fight asks of you.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

That would certainly help at least a bit. You can see glimpses of it in M4S phase 2 where there are actually longer stretches of the boss just auto attacking both tanks and them actually dropping quite a bit.
Granted it's still pretty easy to handle with things like Bloodwhetting and Rampart completely free to use on autos (since you never need the latter for the buster), but that's more than the rest of the fight asks of you.

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Yeh, one part that comes to mind is during Chain Lightning, where the boss stops autoattacking to 'cast' Chain Lightning to start the telegraphing process, but while the 8 jumps are revealing where each safespot will be, she's autoattacking. One of the few times where micromanaging the faerie's position as a SCH feels rewarding (moving it into range to Fey Union the tank for that part)