Tales from Duty Finder: Some make you laugh, some make you cry. Let's vent.

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Originally Posted by Aramina

Hoping against hope.

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I am personally just so confused at how anyone can bear to remain on the Internet, for any length of time, with such sensitive skin. Where do you find such magical corners of the Internet, where you never ever have to see anything that affects you negatively?

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Originally Posted by Miste

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*pats*

It will all be over on friday.

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Originally Posted by Mysterysword

I am personally just so confused at how anyone can bear to remain on the Internet, for any length of time, with such sensitive skin. Where do you find such magical corners of the Internet, where you never ever have to see anything that affects you negatively?

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I honestly have no idea. I editted my post a bit, but I will say again now. I have a daughter, you know... an actual child, that doesn't need to be coddled this way.

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Originally Posted by Aramina

an actual child, that doesn't need to be coddled this way.

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In my extended family, I know several children between the ages of 2 and 7. I am confident in saying that every single one last of them is more capable of following basic instructions than most of the people we're complaining about, here.

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Originally Posted by Mysterysword

In my extended family, I know several children between the ages of 2 and 7. I am confident in saying that every single one last of them is more capable of following basic instructions than most of the people we're complaining about, here.

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I am certain you are correct. :)

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Originally Posted by Mysterysword

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Originally Posted by Aramina

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lmao, good for you two I guess? I'm sure the extra salt wasn't that necessary considering you two made your points already.

Anyway, ran the Great Gubal Library last night as a DRK with a party that had a returning player that decided to roll it as a WHM. When it was time to confront the final boss it was pretty much smooth sailing up until the time came to stand on platforms to prevent adds from spawning which is was pretty necessary since Im waaay to squishy to tank all of them and the boss and from what it looked like the WHM had a little bit of a hard time healing throughout the dungeon. No biggie mind you, I 'm not easily flustered by stuff like that. The point came where we needed to have three people stand on two platforms with three circles on them in the last phase, one of our dps's was normally down for the count during this phase which left me, the other dps and the WHM available to complete the mechanic. Could tell the WHM was panicking during this phase and failed to stand with us so the adds spawned and we wiped. This happened about four different times and each time one of our other members kindly let the WHM know how that last phase worked and what to watch out for. Each time the WHM was pretty silent about it and blamed it on the orbs being placed haphazardly, which was also a good point but hardly the reason. Could tell that the WHM just wanted the trial to be over so by the time we successfully defeated the boss I gave them my commendation for being level headed and mature about the whole thing even though I knew no one was even remotely nasty about having to repeat the encounter several times. One of the few instances where repeating the same encounter didnt result in constant flaming between players so it was a nice change of pace. On a side note, I fucking love Great Gubal Library so the longer i got to remain there the happier I was in all honesty lol.

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Originally Posted by MarcouQ

lmao, good for you two I guess? I'm sure the extra salt wasn't that necessary considering you two made your points already.

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Oh I am so sorry, next time I will be sure to remember to ask your permission before posting to someone.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

It's a tone thing. Your tone comes off as condescending. That is why you need to prefix suggestions with jokes or emoji.

This is because you're the one who is impatient.
Hence, if the dungeon is going too slow for you, bite your tongue unless someone asks how to speed things up. Don't offer such advice unsolicited during the run otherwise arguments ensue.
People will consider help an attack if it doesn't come from a place of concern.

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http://i.imgur.com/zGMn53h.jpg?1


Please explain to me why my intentions were not clear? Yet she still says I was attacking her. I don't think I could have been any clearer than "I am trying to help you" ...I mean should I buy her dinner first to make her understand I mean no harm? She isn't a feral stray cat off the streets who needs to be tamed and taught human language and that humans mean her no harm.

If you want to ignore plain English stating "I am trying to help you" and still perceive me as a threat somehow even though I made no threats or insulted her then okay do it, but you are being ridiculous if so.

Where did I say the run was going slowly? (the DPS we had were excellent so everything was dying fast).

Next time read my post before you reply. I wasn't impatient nor did I care about the speed of the run.

Now please, if you have no story to share then this isn't the place for your long winded response trying to tear people down for attempting to help other players in a cooperative style game.

Here's mine for today: I went into this dungeon called 'Tales from Duty Finder' and the entire group was just bickering.


http://31.media.tumblr.com/81cb1bffb...ftodo1_400.gif

Wow what a lovely bunch of actual anger and salt to celebrate breaking 1000 pages. Seriously chill. I'll just comment on the healer bit since I saw a similar story a couple days ago from another player. Give advice when you see it's needed, say it nicely and succinctly. If they don't get it after at most the second time, drop it. Unless it's making the run drag on for an obscene amount of time, we'll live and go on to the next dungeon. It's not your job to make these people play better, as a member of the community it's your job at best to point them in the right direction. After that it's on them to improve.

Thread title:
Tales from Duty Finder: Some make you laugh, some make you cry. Let's vent.

But be warned, if you actually do this someone will come along and accuse you of being salty!

Bolded for relevance.

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Originally Posted by Miste

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Miste, in my opinion, you did the right thing. I read your tone as helpful and the way you began showed you were trying to break the ice by not being so blunt to start the conversation. There was no judgement, just trying to help.

With that, my story is that we had a full FC group last night queing for Dun Scaith and we ended up never going after we waited for over 2 hours. So instead, we decided to form a cult to try to sell our souls for a queue pop.

http://i.imgur.com/FG29NWO.jpg

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Originally Posted by Miste

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http://i.imgur.com/Wyzdmzf.jpg
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On that other player's 'sometimes it doesn't drop off comment'.

It drops off every time I've clicked the button that I can recall, and if they accidentally double tap it...
They shouldn't be 'spamming heals', just 2 heals to try and keep the tank stable while they wait out the 5second lockout to turn it back off and then heal them properly...

To get this back on track I'd like to share a few mentor roulette stories - some encouraging, some making me question myself why I'm even doing this. Note that I'm queueing for all mentor roulettes as a scholar, always inprogress.

1) Sunken Temple of Qarn, NM - everyone is above level 50, the BLM is still new and running this for her mainquest. Since the whole group is german, explaining gets a little easier - understanding is apparently difficult for some people even if you're speaking the same language. I explain the first boss, the BLM still dies to doom (okay, okay, first time). Then the tank dies because no one except me was bothering with the adds and I was raising that BLM. I raise the tank, manage to kill one bee before it kills me and take the final sting from the other one. But we make it without a wipe, wohoo! Less wohoo on the second boss that I explained again - but the BLM didnt seem to understand the concept (they must have dealt with Titan already... right?) and kept attacking the boss instead of the soulstone. When I call it out again they stop doing anything for the two minutes it takes them to type "sorry, didnt noticed". Yeah for scholar dps! Last boss is surprisingly smooth... in retrospective: probably thanks to me being the person going into those "traps" to kill the "adds" inside...

2) Inprogress queue pops. 54 minutes ellapsed... oh boy, but hey, maybe just some bad luck on the final boss or something...?
Nope, Sohm Al HM, just the two DPS standing infront of the second boss. An hour into the dungeon and the second boss is still alive... promising! I ask what went wrong and... silence. I check out there gear - a crafted Hive-weapon (ilvl180) for the dragoon and a neverreap-drop (ilvl160) for the summoner. Oh boy... they probably failed the Dps-check and the properly geared tank and healer left or something like that. I mention their bad weapons, aks about the dps-check, offer to try having titan-egi tank this. Silence. I explain to them again that 30 minutes might not be enough to finish, judging by their potential dps. Someone votes Abandon and before hitting yes, I can at least advice them to get better weapons before trying again. Also: Queue cleared out of the inprogress-stuff, yeah for that I guess!

3) Inprogress The Vault - being greeted with "Finally!" and nothing else, as if it was my fault they had been waiting. At least the group is at the last boss which is a pain to heal when your dps cant dodge to literally safe their life. The bard doesnt know how to sing - neither Foes (when I'm able to dps during the first half) nor ballad (when I'm running out of MP because I had to raise the ninja two times - I cant heal through AoE+bleed+chain, sorry!). We make it somehow and I felt like I carried those asses HARD - still: no thank you, no commendations (not that I need them but hey... I carried their asses through that last fight!)

4) Gulbal HM - everyone but me is watching the cutscene and yep, all first timers! I know that because everyone actually said so in the chat, amazing! I already like those people! Consequently I tell them that I'll offer as much advice as they want - as in: I can give you advice or we can run blind and I keep my mouth shut. They decide they want to hear boss strats and they're actually waiting patiently for like a minute before each boss while I'm typing an explaintion ;_; No one complains, no one pulls early or gets nervous ;_, Beautiful! The whole run went a bit slow but as far as I can tell everyone actually enjoyed it and had fun - cant ask for more!

Time for me to add to this... but this is more of an apology than anything else.

TLDR:
> Joined an in progress Saint Mocianne's Arboretum as WAR, 6 mins in progress
> Two new people
> No problem, I enjoy this dungeon for multiple reasons, and two of us are overgeared for the dungeon, so it should go smooth
> It goes very smooth, trash pulls are a going down pretty quick
> First boss, goes real quick, no deaths, no accidental getting hit with status ailments
> Honey Comb part, no problem, healer never ran out of MP, no deaths, no close calls
> Second boss goes down faster than the first one
> I look at the clock, it is getting close to 9:00 PM... which is wife agro time
> I let the group know before the last set of trash about incoming wife agro
> Right before the final boss, get agrod by wife
> Had to excuse myself for a bit, usually I am not gone for long
> End up going AFK for so long, I got timed out due to inactivity and recieved penalty (rightfully so, no disagreements on that part)

So, my apologies to the party I was with last night. It was great run... too bad I couldn't finish it with you.

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Originally Posted by Aramina

I weep for the world we live in.

P.S. There is no flipping tone in what she said. Maybe if people stopped thinking if anyone says more than "Hi!!! <3<3<3" that they are being attacked we may all be in a better place. My CHILD needs less coddling than supposed adults in DF.

Did you actually even read her post? She was concerned about the healer allowing people to die from being healed while the healer was in Cleric Stance. Nowhere did she say, or imply, anything was taking too long.

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If you've read her, or anyone's posts on the General forum, you know people around here are impatient. She was told to drop it by someone else in the party, that was where it should have ended.

http://i.imgur.com/fsFslFq.jpg

Everyone else: there is this thing called de-escalation. Try it instead of being rude or snappy when you don't like what you hear.

Miste may have thought she was helping, but what was the purpose of trying 6 times?

Edit2: If the person plays as bad as we all know they are doing, it's likely they've been told by every person they ever played with and are sick of hearing it.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

Miste may have thought she was helping, but what was the purpose of trying 6 times?

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Oh I don't know, maybe trying to avoid eventually dying? Or should she have just stood there and died so that no one would think the poor little healer was being mistreated.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

Edit2: If the person plays as bad as we all know they are doing, it's likely they've been told by every person they ever played with and are sick of hearing it.

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When the world all tells you the same thing, it's not the world that is the problem.

Simple solution: When everyone says you are doing x wrong. Start doing x correctly.

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Originally Posted by Aramina

Oh I don't know, maybe trying to avoid eventually dying? Or should she have just stood there and died so that no one would think the poor little healer was being mistreated.

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Just chill okay. The rules of de-escalation involve not being judgmental and positive re-enforcement. If you want people to listen, the passive-aggressive tone, and sass works against the idea that you want to help.

If someone says no, just drop it, and let things fail if they fail. People will not learn if you do not let them fail.

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Originally Posted by Mysterysword

Please be trolling please be trolling please be trolling.

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Y'all should know by now that my posts are trying to be helpful :P

I don't post things on the forums to try and change peoples minds. No, first rule of the internet, is that any information posted to the internet can not be trusted.

You will have people omit context, cherry-pick, straw-man, ad hominem, and call people names before any truth comes out.

Got a 7 minute in prog Dun Scaith, once I accepted I realised I had already... done it for last week. Whoopsie-daisy. But I'll stay, they're... on the crystal mobs. Okay?

The point I realised why the other DPS dropped (I assumed they were a caster, given that our party was two blms, another smn, a drg, ast... i think sch?). Was it because the team was slow? Nah, they were okay.
They dropped because the healers didn't raise. At all. AT ALL. The scholar tried, I suppose (only the cohealer), but during Scathach alone I tossed out at least 10 raises. Heals were slow and the lesser geared/newer people just dropped and... stayed dropped. Half our party was consistently dead until Diabolos finally died, and towards the end of Scathach I got cleaved by her being pulled into a weird direction from which I was dpsing the add. I was dead for 5 minutes flat, both healers had more than enough mp to raise me or the other two that had been dead (and before raised before dropping again by me) for even longer.


Like, I go in as summoner so I stay used to being a caster dps in preparation for Red Mage on Friday, and help out with raising because why shouldn't I, especially with AOEs coming out? But being the only person who raises, especially as summoner with much more limited MP...
Augh. I'll just skip on doing Dun Scaith today/tomorrow unless I get bored.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

Y'all should know by now that my posts are trying to be helpful :P

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This, oddly maybe, I actually believe. If I may give a small touch of (albeit unasked for) advice? You may get a little further if you approached things from a more neutral standpoint rather than immediately assuming people are intending to be aggressive. I am not a mean person, honest, but when I see people constantly claiming others are elitist/impatient/whatever even I lose my temper a bit.

This just happened: queued for leveling roulette as MCH, had that sweet 20 minutes DPS queue.

Got paired with a PLD, a BRD and a leaf WHM. I was pleasantly surprised by the leaf WHM going out of his way to DPS, this had everything to be a smooth dungeon run.

Then I noticed things were taking kinda long to die and I was the only DPS with aggro in more than 1 mob at the time, I started paying attention to the BRD and noticed he wasn't using his DoTs nor any AoE skills, all he would do is spam Heavy Shot and the ocasional Straight Shot. Told him to don't forget his DoTs and maybe AoE a little and got ignored. Just before the second boss the tank did a bigger pull and when I asked the BRD to AoE a second time the tank raged, told me to "shut the fuck up" and vote kicked me.

Of course I went to check the contact list and they are from the same server, probably queued together and kick anyone who even asks them to put some effort into playing.

Thank you for wasting 1h of my time with half a dungeon run and 2 queues.

Edit: forgot to mention that I checked the BRD search info, he mains BRD and is at level 55.

http://i.imgur.com/9OztnEt.png

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Originally Posted by TheAngelneer

Thank you for wasting 1h of my time with half a dungeon run and 2 queues.

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Just be content that at that rate of play they probably spent longer in the dungeon than it took you to take another queue :)

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

Edit2: If the person plays as bad as we all know they are doing, it's likely they've been told by every person they ever played with and are sick of hearing it.

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If they have heard the same advice ad nauseam, maybe they should consider actually trying it.

Sure, Miste was probably at least a smidge annoyed in this instance (given that they were trying to help), but there is no need for the tone policing. Nothing they said was even remotely out of line. If anything, I think Miste was more patient than she needed to be.

I'm sure if they healer continues to act in the same way, they are going to get it much worse with someone significantly less forgiving.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

If you've read her, or anyone's posts on the General forum, you know people around here are impatient. She was told to drop it by someone else in the party, that was where it should have ended.

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Again, no where in my post did I mention the run was slow or that I wanted it to speed up or anything remotely impatient. If anything my party members were actually the impatient ones since they couldn't stop for a minute to quickly chat about this issue of a healer healing with cleric stance on and running out of MP while doing so.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

Don't offer such advice unsolicited during the run otherwise arguments ensue.

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^ this mentality is so wrong. Why is help or advice a bad thing? Why does offering help or advice lead to arguments? People are turning it into a bad thing with their attitudes and responses when people chat to them.

It is a MMO. Massively Multiplayer Online game. Social & cooperative gameplay. This isn't a solo game.

Yet, we can't talk to one another about any concerns while trying to complete a cooperative piece of content. We can't offer help/advice or even ask questions of someone else because of players like this who immediately think we are attacking them if we do so.

"You asked a question to me? You are trying to give advice? You're trying to help me? No, you must be just attacking me! You are just being impatient! You're just an elitist! You're so rude!" as examples etc.

By the way, all your little labels are wrong except the last one. Yeah I was a bit rude at my last comment because of her claiming I was attacking her when I was just trying to help. You do eventually get fed up with that kind of attitude. Wasn't even an ounce of rudeness before that, just advice and being honest (maybe a bit bluntly so, but honesty none the less)

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

Miste may have thought she was helping, but what was the purpose of trying 6 times?

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I technically only tried twice to try to make her understand what I was saying about Cleric. Not six.

First part was the first conversation which I tried to explain in different words what I mean since she didn't seem to understand the problem (this only lasted like 2 minutes but typing some while pulling/killing)

Then 15 minutes later was the second time I tried to get her to understand she cannot sit in Cleric and spam heal me 20 times trying to get my HP to go up.

Two times isn't excessive not to mention I wasn't pushy about it since 15 mins went by before I said anything again. I just couldn't understand why she was healing with Cleric on half the time and seemed to not notice her heals were healing for pretty much nothing.

When you initiate a conversation and the other person you are talking to doesn't appear to understand what you are saying you try to clarify your issue in more words or different words to see if it helps them understand. It isn't me telling her the same thing six times. It is me clarifying what I was trying to say in two different conversations to try to get through to her so I could help her.

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Originally Posted by Smol

It just occurred to me -

Maybe that healer was actually SUPER HARDCORE!

Like, they were trying to artificially inflate the difficulty of healing in this game since it can be such a snoozefest.

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lol I actually did think of this at the first two pulls when she left Cleric on like the whole time and tried to heal me. It's funny you mention that I guess we kind of thought the same thing xD

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Originally Posted by Miste

Snip!

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It just occurred to me -

Maybe that healer was actually SUPER HARDCORE!

Like, they were trying to artificially inflate the difficulty of healing in this game since it can be such a snoozefest.

...No? Okay.

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Originally Posted by Smol

It just occurred to me -

Maybe that healer was actually SUPER HARDCORE!

Like, they were trying to artificially inflate the difficulty of healing in this game since it can be such a snoozefest.

...No? Okay.

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All these heal only healers actually had the perfect tool all along for their playstyle that would allow them to keep active for the entire duration of the fights!

Shame it's going away in a couple days...

:3

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Originally Posted by TaranTatsuuchi

All these heal only healers actually had the perfect tool all along for their playstyle that would allow them to keep active for the entire duration of the fights!

Shame it's going away in a couple days...

:3

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I am almost tempted to do this. FOR SCIENCE. (and boredom.. ok maybe all boredom)

Wow. 1006 pages before Stormblood even releases. I expect this thread to suddenly fill up with complaints about "lolSAM!" and "lolRDM!" during the first few weeks of Stormblood's release.

I wish I could say I didn't have any more "eye roll worthy" runs before Stormblood, but just a few weeks ago, I ended up having very questionable healers in a regular Zurvan run. (Not even EX, mind you)

The battle starts with the WAR in Defiance and I've joined the round as a PLD in Sword Oath. The WAR leaves Defiance on, but doesn't pull. After a bit, and not really wanting to just stand around wasting time, I turn on Shield Oath and lead instead. WAR is quick to react to the situation thankfully and turns on Deliverance. Phase 1 goes by without a hitch. (It'd better. It's rather easy)

Phase 2 is where the trouble begins, and Zurvan isn't even fully trying yet in this phase. Seems to me people tend to underestimate just how hard Zurvan hits, even on normal/hard mode. During the battle, I'm surviving just fine by rotating through my defense cooldowns and getting in a Clemency here and there to help keep my HP up there during forced down time. Everyone who's played as a PLD enough times though knows how much of an MP guzzler Clemency is. I can't keep that up forever.

After the first Soar, the problems start right here. I note that the healers are Cleric Stance DPSing while my HP is high. Good. I like healers that squeeze in DPS time. My HP falls to 50%. Still fine. Maybe these healers are skilled to the point of which the WHM is just waiting to use Benediction. HP falls to 25%. In a random Duty Finder party, this is where I'd expect heals to start being sent my way. I know people love the strategy of waiting until the tank is really low on HP before popping a Benediction and what not, but when I'm working with a total stranger I don't know and is my healer, I AM going to panic a bit if you still refuse to heal me at 10%-25%. I take another attack from Zurvan and note that the next attack WILL kill me, even though I'm in Shield Oath. I've already cycled through all my defense skills except Convelesance, which is being rendered useless because the healers (A WHM and an AST) STILL refuse to heal me. I finally panic and hit the Hallowed Ground button. (Is macroed to give a sound cue that I just went invicible for the next few seconds)

Sure enough, the next attack comes out that would have killed me if I didn't turn on Hallowed Ground. The healers STILL won't heal me! Phase 3 begins moments after I take the said attack besides, meaning I saved myself from one measly hit with a rather powerful cooldown... that could have been better used. Guess what the healers finally do after Zurvan finally jumps for the phase shift? NOW THEY HEAL! WITH BENEDICTION AND ESSENTIAL DIGNITY HITTING ME AT THE SAME TIME! You guys seriously couldn't have done that a few seconds sooner!? Now my Hallowed Ground is practically wasted.

As Phase 3 begins, at least the WAR is on the ball and helps with add management. (Probably noted the healers insistance on not healing) We get to the final set of adds, and I end up getting the aggro of both of the adds that attack on a regular basis. (The WAR is helping kill the add that drops the meteor with Fell Cleaves) Once again, despite using defense cooldowns to keep myself alive, the healers refuse to heal. They refuse to the point of which I die. To the adds. Finally they note I needed help and they swiftcast rez me... seconds away from Zurvan using his special. Rezzing into his special is of course a bad idea, especially since the healers are refusing to heal. Of course, by staying down, the rez buff vanishes after the special. Phase 4 begins and throughout the entire battle, the healers refuse to rez me again. And just start Cleric Stance DPSing again. (They don't even bother to AoE heal)

The WAR steps up to tank since I'm down. At first, it's going fine, as the WAR is carefully using their own defensive cooldowns to survive Zurvan. Clearly the WAR has noted the healers lack of desire to heal, as he/she never leaves Defiance after stepping up to MT. Inner Beasts. Vengence. You name it, the WAR is doing what he/she can to survive as well. Except it's now Phase 4, and Zurvan is now using Tyfring. Do the healers respond? NOPE! They just keep Cleric Stance DPSing. WAR uses Inner Beast and Equilibrium to get some HP back. Zurvan prepares another Tyfring. WAR ends up having to resort to Holmgang already. Do the healers respond to the fact that the WAR is only sitting at 1 HP?

... you guessed it. They just keep DPSing. The WAR promptly dies. This happens as the WAR happens to be standing on a blue circle for the colored meteor mechanic, resulting in a failed mechanic. My FC mate, the BLM, promtly dies to this. (Guess who didn't get healed as well?) Zurvan promptly turns to the NIN and quickly chews through the NIN as one of the healers swift rezs the WAR. (They STILL won't rez me) The WAR does his/her best to snap aggro back to him/her and keep Zurvan off the party. Zurvan simply prepares another Tyrfing and KO's the WAR again. (Guess who didn't get healed again?) Finally, someone calls out the BS on the healers part. (The NIN, who got chewed quickly)

"Healers, for the love of god, ****ing heal your bloody tanks!"

One of the surviving DPS replies "Forget that for now! We need a healer LB3!"

Healers finally snap to their senses and are FINALLY AoE healing, while Zurvan is now looking to chew through the WHM. Said surviving DPS repeats "Healer LB3! Now!" One of the healers finally respond and uses the LB3. Interestingly enough, the WAR insists on being the MT here despite me being up now as well and the WAR is still suffering from "Weakness". I go along with it and activate Sword Oath. Zurvan readies another Tyrfing to lay into the WAR. The WAR thankfully responds with defensive cooldowns. What are the healers doing as the WAR is reduced to 10% HP?

DPS DPS DPS DPS DPS DPS DPS DPS DPS

In my head: "Umm... healers? You guys gonna heal the WAR here some time today?"

DPS DPS DPS DPS DPS DPS DPS DPS DPS

Me: ...

https://cdn.capcom-unity.com/capcom-...8.png?v=252900

I... can't believe... this is actually happening...

Now that I have 0% trust left in these "healers", I activate Shield Oath and use Provoke to get heat off of the WAR, who responds by turning on Delieverance. Just in time too as Zurvan starts preparing another Tyrfing at this moment. What are the healers doing?

DPS DPS DPS DPS DPS DPS DPS DPS DPS

I activate Sentinel in combination with Shield Oath to mostly negate the Tyrfing damage. I'm now reduced to about 35%-50% HP. What are the healers doing?

DPS DPS DPS DPS DPS DPS DPS DPS DPS (They haven't even bothered to heal the WAR)

*Flips the "Great Healer DPS Debate" table in my head in absolute rage*

I start using Clemency to keep myself alive, thankfully long enough for Zurvan to die. What do the healers do the moment the battle is over? They very promptly run out of the room without a word.

... ... ...

I'm willing to agree with what someone else said earlier in here. There ARE no good healers left in this game. This experience has taught me that the hard way. The only random healers I seem to get anymore in DF are the ones who are shy about DPSing... or are DPS obsessed to the point of where they forget the primary point of the job they signed up for. Going into Stormblood, I'm going to see if I can convince my FC mate that we should go back to the "Tank and Healer" combo we were doing earlier, JUST to avoid situations like that in the future.

I never want to hear "Healers who don't DPS are the worst players in existance!" in any way ever again. IMO, healers who refuse to do their primary duty by any means are worse then the healers who don't DPS. This is just another reason why I point accusing fingers at both ends of the "Healer DPS debate" table. I'm tired of the extremists on both ends of this debate, and it's getting worse with each and every passing day as it seems to be leaking more and more into the battles in the game itself.

I'm serious. Through that entire battle, there were many moments where healing was needed, and it never came. Instead, they kept doing this:

DPS DPS DPS DPS DPS DPS DPS DPS DPS

I will never un-see that battle now. People are dieing. Healing is needed to survive certain mechanics. What are the "healers" doing?

DPS DPS DPS DPS DPS DPS DPS DPS DPS

*Jumps off a cliff screaming "I DON'T WANT TO LIVE ON THIS PLANET ANYMORE!"*

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Originally Posted by TruebladeNuke

Snip!

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Obligatory "but did you clear?" here.

I'm being facetious, of course. Even us crazy pro-DPS poops never suggest healers shirk their primary duty - that being healing.

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Originally Posted by TruebladeNuke

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I never want to hear "Healers who don't DPS are the worst players in existance!" in any way ever again. IMO, healers who refuse to do their primary duty by any means are worse then the healers who don't DPS. This is just another reason why I point accusing fingers at both ends of the "Healer DPS debate" table. I'm tired of the extremists on both ends of this debate, and it's getting worse with each and every passing day as it seems to be leaking more and more into the battles in the game itself.
...

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Which is why I always argue that they should be doing something useful to the group with every gcd, not that they 'should dps'.
It just happens to coincide that the most useful thing once people are healed is to dps...

In my opinion, that argument is horrendously mislabeled.
It's the people standing around idle that are the problem.

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Originally Posted by TaranTatsuuchi

Which is why I always argue that they should be doing something useful to the group with every gcd, not that they 'should dps'.
It just happens to coincide that the most useful thing once people are healed is to dpes...

In my opinion, that argument is horrendously mislabeled.
It's the people standing around idle that are the problem.

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Preach it, sister!

Story:
Had another awesome Aery run (wtf, am I in the Twilight Zone?) Tank says he is new so I tell him I will give him important details on the boss fights unless he wants to go blind (he says hell no!) and off we go. Give a little 1-2 line description for all bosses and wham bam we are done. Not the speediest run I have had but since he said he was new and was receptive to help on the bosses it was all good. :)

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Originally Posted by Smol

Obligatory "but did you clear?" here.

I'm being facetious, of course. Even us crazy pro-DPS poops never suggest healers shirk their primary duty - that being healing.

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I imagined that went through their heads as we didn't wipe, lol.

But still... for a WHM to never even bother tossing out a Regen on the MT... that should tell you something. D:

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Originally Posted by TruebladeNuke

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I'd like to think that I'm a good healer, so there are some of us still left. :(

That being said, wow. Those are a couple of the worst healers I have ever read about. I'm very pro healer DPS, but I will say the worst healers are those who do not heal. I really dislike healers who stand around idle in between heals, but they aren't nearly as bad as healers who never heal.

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Originally Posted by TruebladeNuke

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This is why many of us purposely characterize our arguments around utilizing your full toolkit. A healer who refuses to DPS is a bad player while a healer who only does damage is an idiot. Some people care more about their parses than actually keeping the group alive. I came across a 99% tank when Dun Scaith first released who utterly refused to tank. He literally watched as Diabolos torn through multiple DPS and healers when the other two tanks, woefully undergeared compared to him, went down. He never touched Grit, which would be fine... if he could establish aggro without it. He couldn't. And we eventually wiped. Like the healers you endured, they're all complete morons. Better to chalk this up as "bad players in DF" than a counterpart to the healer DPS argument. That being said, I do agree. Healers who won't DPS are certainly better than healers who won't heal. That's just... why even play the job if you won't utilizes it's core features? I'm guessing they were going for a parse run; like the tank I mentioned.

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Originally Posted by TruebladeNuke

DPS DPS DPS DPS DPS DPS DPS DPS DPS

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I am pretty sure those "healers" where actually trolling hard and nothing else :/

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Originally Posted by TruebladeNuke

ye gods

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You need a grappling hook to get over that wall of text. The "DPS DPS DPS" was more annoying than the healers themselves.

To be perfectly honest, they don't sound that bad to me? The very fact you got through Zurvan says they can't have been that awful; I've seen healers who don't even touch Cleric unable to pull that off. It seems more like you're cheesed off you had to push yourself as a tank instead of doing your 1-2-3-mitigate rotation and relying on them to carry you through. Yes, they timed it badly on some occasions, but I admire them for trying to help push damage. The fact you saw Soar in the 1st/ 2nd phase suggests DPS wasn't fantastic, which they may have been trying to compensate for.

Lazy healers who stand around and do nothing are everywhere and enough of a problem already, so please don't use one negative experience to try and act as if DPS-happy healers are anywhere as near as common.

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

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Sounds like you didn't read it all. Aside from the "DPS" segments being thrown in for humor, I'm pretty sure I fully explained why those healers needed to shape up. I'll cover the key points here again once more before dropping it here, as I have no intention of allowing myself to get involved into a debate on here.

1: The WHM never bothered to use "Regen" period. Not even a "Medica II" until things started to go to hell. "Regen" is a WHM's literal best tool for allowing themselves time to squeeze in DPS. Yet he never used it. I'd say the same of the AST, but he was in Nocturnal Stance.

2: The healers refused to heal even as it got to the point where the next AUTO attack would kill me or the WAR. They had several seconds to turn off Cleric Stance and get the HP back up to shape when the WAR Holmganged and when I used Hallowed Ground. Not a single heal spell went off on the WAR during those few seconds of Holmgang time. And they only healed me AFTER Zurvan jumped, when I would have been dead if I didn't use Hallowed Ground.

3: This isn't even EX. This is NORMAL Zurvan. You know... the one you can get in Trials Roulette?

4: Please drop the "Skip Soar" thing here. That's not the point here. Also, doing Soar's mechanic isn't as hard as people make it out to be anyway. Especially on normal/hard mode.

These two healers weren't even actually TRYING to heal... until things went to hell for a bit. How does a WHM go an entire battle in Duty Finder without ever touching Regen? It's their best tool for allowing themselves time to DPS... along with Holy when it comes to mob control. I'm honestly with some of the other people who responded on this matter. It sounds like they cared more about their parse over actually doing the job they signed up for. Squeezing DPS in is the icing on the cake to Tanks and Healers. More so for Healers then Tanks. (As damage happens to be part of the Tank's rotation, especially after they've already secured aggro and get to start busting out things like Goring Blade) If all they care about is how much damage they're doing, they should be playing as DPS jobs. Not healers.

It's one thing to endure healers that won't DPS. But I can, and WILL, kick "healers" who refuse to even remotely touch their healer toolkit.

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Originally Posted by Faliandra

the real question is....... when did things like that start happening?I remember when I was a noob player in 3.1 at the end of 2015. And I've done wrong EVERYTHING possible. Like...I was the lvl 37 conjurer who thought its ok to do the whole "lvl arcanist to 15 and become a whm" later
because at no point, the game EXPLAINED to you WHY you have to pick a second class or forced you to do it. It's just "boom, lvl 30 quest, requirement: arcanist lvl 15" in your face.
So the reason why I eventually did it is because I started struggling with heals sometimes and people questioned why I wasnt a WHM.

Then I became a WHM and threw around Regen happily just to be told by the tank to not do it during pulls.

When I lvled BLM, I initially was a Fire III spamming BLM because despite reading tooltips, I didnt understand the whole Astral Fire/Umbral Ice buff thing for some reason.
And a nice guy in a dungeon then quickly explained me a basic rotation. Took 2-3 minutes, but I was able to improve my dps output instantly.


Point is, back then, whenever I was a first-timer, in 99% of all cases, I didnt even have to ask for boss strategies...people were courteous enough to shortly summarize what the boss does
and always offered helpful advice for basic rotations and rules like "dont use Regen before the pull" etc. And I was grateful and LISTENED. Nowadays, its become a rarity that people even want or accept help. All the nice and helpful people seem fed up with people refusing help and stopped caring.

I dont understand why people are like this.
I didnt even ask for help and people were so nice and helpful to me and I appreciated it. How can you NOT appreciate this? Its what made me fall in love with this game even more: the friendly, helpful community.
And I'm convinced that same community is still present, but keeping a low profile cos theyre tired of the new influx of the "dont tell me how to play" generation of players.


Just...why?

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My friend sees the same thing, ofc it will look nice to someone accepting advice, you can go a few pages back when I tried to help someone with healing and the replies that got. Why people act like that I got no idea.

During late 2.0 people where really abusive to healers, if you did not overgear and kept up with the mega pulls, even when you remind them to slow down, the general base didn't and kicked or harassed healers.

Now it is like people expect to be carried. who knows why that general tone changed.

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Originally Posted by Miste

^ this mentality is toxic. Why is help or advice a bad thing? Why does offering help or advice lead to arguments? People are turning it into a bad thing with their toxic attitudes and responses when people chat to them.

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Can't say that to people just report them.

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Originally Posted by TruebladeNuke

snop

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Admittedly after the sixth paragraph my attention began to wane. But the fact that it's Zurvan NM is a plus in their column, tbh. You need even less healing.

I'm not saying they were perfect or even good, regens at least are certainly a good idea, but I stand by what I said. I admire players who push damage and make some mistakes far more than "let me stand around in case you need healing in 40 seconds." And I know sometimes, when the damage is negligible, I'll stay in Cleric and hope the tank has the common sense to heal/ mitigate themselves when necessary. Unfortunately, few do.

I don't think they were making any kind of statement in regards to DPS, ignoring healing or proving a point, they just saw an easy trial and thought it'd be all right to be Cleric happy. You made it through, and when *cough did hit the fan, they brought it back, so like I said, it can't have been too terrible. It's hardly something to get so worked up over.

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Originally Posted by TruebladeNuke

DPS DPS DPS DPS DPS DPS DPS DPS DPS

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Yeah, I had one of those the other day. Had to toss out Mage Ballad before we even hit the first boss. Then they posted a parse, and I laughed. Of course they were doing alot of damage. They were spamming AoE DPS spells. And the healing was definitely on the light side.