VIERA AND HROTHGAR COMPLAINT MEGATHREAD

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Midareyukki

I have that.

Let me tell you how it works.

You know how metallic wire doesn't obviously fit your forehead if you just make an arch? So it just kinda hovers there like the world's worst Star Trek visor?

Yeah, it's that.

---

I had forgotten that detail. Well remembered.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Midareyukki

Random Modder: ...so I just flipped a metadata switch, here, have your ears back. Also Square Enix went from having 8 faces to 16 faces per Hrothgar clan. You can only change to your counterpart hairstyle, and even then, you're changing your whole head model, not just the hair. We'll see what we can do.

---

This just makes me feel so bad for the modders! Like they are that one person in customer service that is trying their hardest to help you with your problem, while SE is that one employee that plays on their phone all day and conveniently goes on breaks when a customer shows up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pip_Chick

This just makes me feel so bad for the modders! Like they are that one person in customer service that is trying their hardest to help you with your problem, while SE is that one employee that plays on their phone all day and conveniently goes on breaks when a customer shows up.

---

https://c.tenor.com/F_CQoppwZ1QAAAAC...nd-to-work.gif

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pip_Chick

This just makes me feel so bad for the modders! Like they are that one person in customer service that is trying their hardest to help you with your problem, while SE is that one employee that plays on their phone all day and conveniently goes on breaks when a customer shows up.

---

I'm not even joking when I say I know of one modder that messes around with Hrothgar hairstyles. They don't have any professional qualifications, just "I know how to do this and I find doing it cool ". Sometimes the process is easy and straightforward, sometimes they need to adjust the hairstyle a little to make it fit properly and not look like it's just detached from the head or something.

They don't let stuff just hang there, floating stiffly like wire on a bad wig. They don't turn your head into a peanut to pretend like stuff didn't get sloppily stretched to fit. They care. They are an amateur, but they put care into the stuff that they release, stuff that they aren't paid to do and took time that they didn't have to take to make.

Meanwhile this for Square Enix, with products with a certain quality like these, is such a rocket-science-impossible feat that they just give us stuff in that state and need to do the dumbest thing possible to our head models to make stuff work.

...I'll be cruel here. Really cruel. And I apologize because not only is it cruel-sounding, it's also cruel to say to someone who is Japanese. But no wonder they need to hire new people if this is the best they can do.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Midareyukki

I'm not even joking when I say I know of one modder that messes around with Hrothgar hairstyles. They don't have any professional qualifications, just "I know how to do this and I find doing it cool ". Sometimes the process is easy and straightforward, sometimes they need to adjust the hairstyle a little to make it fit properly and not look like it's just detached from the head or something.

They don't let stuff just hang there, floating stiffly like wire on a bad wig. They don't turn your head into a peanut to pretend like stuff didn't get sloppily stretched to fit. They care. They are an amateur, but they put care into the stuff that they release, stuff that they aren't paid to do and took time that they didn't have to take to make.

Meanwhile this for Square Enix, who's been able to give us stuff like this, is such a rocket-science-impossible feat that they just give us stuff in that state and need to do the dumbest thing possible to our head models to make stuff work.

...I'll be cruel here. Really cruel. And I apologize because not only is it cruel-sounding, it's also cruel to say to someone who is Japanese. But no wonder they need to hire new people if this is the best they can do.

---

can't direct link wikia images my dude.

QUESTIONS:

Before I start, I'd like to quickly let everyone know that these are hypothetical questions and nothing will come of it, our current starter armour for both Viera and Hrothgar are here to stay and no high demand will change that. These questions are just my way of interacting with the community & I love hearing people's thoughts and different opinions. :) Think of all of this as a 'what if' scenario.

#3
A question of 'do you agree, what do you think? While I don't know much about Hrothgars lore, I would have loved it if they could receive an outfit that we saw in X. The outfit is defining for the Ronso, and it would suit the Hrothgar in FFXIV, the colours are vibrant and it'd be a nice tribute to their ancestors/previous appearance. My friend actually wanted me to ask this question, he's pretty obsessed with this outfit and he's hoping it'll be obtainable at some point, even suggested it should be an unlockable 'legacy' armour. Personally, I'd just like Hrothgar to be able to keep their claws without the use of their starter handgear but I digress. While I do love the current Hrothgar armour, it'd still be nice for FFX fans to receive this one.

https://i.ibb.co/nwT2Rx2/hrothgar-armour.webp

#4
Another question of do you agree, and what do you think? In an ideal scenario, I would have preferred if Viera had armor that was worn by those who reside in Eruyt village, the picture below shows what I would have liked the Female Viera to have as their starter gear. Please don't get me wrong, I do like Fran's armour, but the thing is it's unique to her character and only she was seen with it in XII, it does not represent Eruyt village where we allegedly came from. The way I see it, the colour contrast between Eruyt Village and Fran's armour resembles her disconnection from her old life... So personally, I think the metal-silver armour would have given us more individuality, as opposed to robbing Fran's wardrobe.

https://i.ibb.co/1bsdtt7/viera2-rend...an-d49hmd6.png

If anyone missed the previous questions, they're a couple pages back :) Feel free to answer those too if you like!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SherlottaEryut

QUESTIONS:

#1
Would people have preferred it if the Veena were the Foel Viera?


#2
I have also seen quite a few people suggest that our Hrothgar's should go and visit the chiropractor, it's made me curious how many actually like the hunch. What do people think of the Hrothgar's posture?

---

1- Yes. I can't see any differences between Ravas and Veenas, other than the skin color. It would be interesting to have sub races with more variations, as there is in the Hyur

2- I believe they tried to do an animalistic posture, but sincerely? I believe that a more upright posture would make them much more imposing.


I'll answer the other questions later XD

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Denji

can't direct link wikia images my dude.

---

Then I link the official Square Enix website for those same products. As well as the link to KH4's official announcement video in their Kingdom Hearts youtube channel. The effect is still the same: Photorealistic stuff? Totally doable. Viera and Hrothgar? Like building a perpetual motion machine.

I've heard from the guys over at Ubisoft who made Assassin's Creed 2 directly at a symposium in my friend's university say that the hardest thing about designing Ezio wasn't the character model, but the layered clothing. Hrothgar hair featuring ears comes nowhere near close as being layered clothing. No one is asking for Noctis levels of hair strands, especially not since Noctis himself is featured with play-do hair in this game.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/K002r6Sz4nY/maxresdefault.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SherlottaEryut

QUESTIONS:

Before I start, I'd like to quickly let everyone know that these are hypothetical questions and nothing will come of it, our current starter armour for both Viera and Hrothgar are here to stay and no high demand will change that. These questions are just my way of interacting with the community & I love hearing people's thoughts and different opinions. :) Think of all of this as a 'what if' scenario.

#3
A question of 'do you agree, what do you think? While I don't know much about Hrothgars lore, I would have loved it if they could receive an outfit that we saw in X. The outfit is defining for the Ronso, and it would suit the Hrothgar in FFXIV, the colours are vibrant and it'd be a nice tribute to their ancestors/previous appearance. My friend actually wanted me to ask this question, he's pretty obsessed with this outfit and he's hoping it'll be obtainable at some point, even suggested it should be an unlockable 'legacy' armour. Personally, I'd just like Hrothgar to be able to keep their claws without the use of their starter handgear but I digress. While I do love the current Hrothgar armour, it'd still be nice for FFX fans to receive this one.

https://i.ibb.co/nwT2Rx2/hrothgar-armour.webp

#4
Another question of do you agree, and what do you think? In an ideal scenario, I would have preferred if Viera had armor that was worn by those who reside in Eruyt village, the picture below shows what I would have liked the Female Viera to have as their starter gear. Please don't get me wrong, I do like Fran's armour, but the thing is it's unique to her character and only she was seen with it in XII, it does not represent Eruyt village where we allegedly came from. The way I see it, the colour contrast between Eruyt Village and Fran's armour resembles her disconnection from her old life... So personally, I think the metal-silver armour would have given us more individuality, as opposed to robbing Fran's wardrobe.

https://i.ibb.co/1bsdtt7/viera2-rend...an-d49hmd6.png

If anyone missed the previous questions, they're a couple pages back :) Feel free to answer those too if you like!

---

Even the foreheads on these viera models are normal sized, idk what went wrong when SE designed the Viera or if it's a bug with the way the new hair fits but I really hope they fix it.

Viera be lookin like:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...24/unknown.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...50/unknown.png

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Minthe

Even the foreheads on these viera models are normal sized, idk what went wrong when SE designed the Viera or if it's a bug with the way the new hair fits but I really hope they fix it.

Viera be lookin like:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...24/unknown.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...50/unknown.png

---

The males got the same problem with certain hairstyles :,)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Minthe

Even the foreheads on these viera models are normal sized, idk what went wrong when SE designed the Viera or if it's a bug with the way the new hair fits but I really hope they fix it.

---

it is very difficult to fix these hairs on the Vieras' head. I mean, look at the shape of the Vieras' head, it's so different from what we have today, so unique... It's not like modders can do it, it's that they must have a huge team to do it, and a lot of money left over.


yes, i'm being ironic

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SherlottaEryut

QUESTIONS:#3

---

3rd question, yes those are pretty iconic as well as Kimahri's outfit. If they would add them it could be from an X crossover event (and if they do, they could add a "fake" horn or a "broken fake" horn respectively as a headpiece for the outfit)

4th question, I didn't play XII, don't know anything about Fran or Vieras in general, but if what your saying is true then it would have been better to give them the normal or even a more tweaked version of Fran's outfit (something to resemble it, but not straight up copy it), you could put it that we had the same base outfit as Fran when we were in the village but used slightly different materials then her when revamping our outfits after we left, they could make it look kind of the same, but with different textures and/or accessories.

Or a small idea that I had a while ago of races sporting different outfits based on the clans they are from. That might be a lot of work and unrealistic, but it would be a nice touch (In my opinion).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SherlottaEryut

QUESTIONS:
#3
A question of 'do you agree, what do you think? While I don't know much about Hrothgars lore, I would have loved it if they could receive an outfit that we saw in X. The outfit is defining for the Ronso, and it would suit the Hrothgar in FFXIV, the colours are vibrant and it'd be a nice tribute to their ancestors/previous appearance.
#4
ld have preferred if Viera had armor that was worn by those who reside in Eruyt village, the picture below shows what I would have liked the Female Viera to have as their starter gear.

---

3- I'm neutral on this one. I don't like the armor we have, and I don't like this one very much either.

4- I'm also neutral. Particularly for me it wouldn't make much difference

Continuing my saga of ideas for Vieras helmets: Top hats!

Top hats would be hard to imagine, as letting the ears clip would look weird (only half the ear would show). And pretending they're inside the top hat would also be weird (because top hats aren't that big).

I saw a solution that I particularly thought was great: Put rabbit ears in the hat. I won't name names because I don't want the person to be harmed, but I must say that I just cut the top hat from a photo, the idea is not mine.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...296/tophat.png


And again, the "bugs bunny" solution would work in this case too.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...04/unknown.png

The problem I think you're going to run in there - and I'm not in any way defending Square on this end - is that in order to do something like that, any kind of "ears glued to the headgear" solution, you have to keep 8 copies of the hat in addition to the ones you already have (one for each Viera ear style, one for each Hrothgar skull.) That's gonna get cumbersome, and you might get some pushback developer wise.

I do think the hat's totes adorbs though.

(Also in before anyone makes a magician putting a rabbit back into a hat joke.)

I miss wearing Eureka elemental fending and maiming headgears :<

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kelev

The problem I think you're going to run in there - and I'm not in any way defending Square on this end - is that in order to do something like that, any kind of "ears glued to the headgear" solution, you have to keep 8 copies of the hat in addition to the ones you already have (one for each Viera ear style, one for each Hrothgar skull.) That's gonna get cumbersome, and you might get some pushback developer wise.

I do think the hat's totes adorbs though.

(Also in before anyone makes a magician putting a rabbit back into a hat joke.)

---

In the case of Viera ears they could just do what they did with hair, add a deformation to all ears and a flag on hats that would activate said deformation for the bugs bunny method, the other one looks very weird to me.. A bit unsure about the Hrothgar skulls, but didn't they change it so now they're all pretty similar?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HollowedDoll

In the case of Viera ears they could just do what they did with hair, add a deformation to all ears and a flag on hats that would activate said deformation for the bugs bunny method, the other one looks very weird to me.. A bit unsure about the Hrothgar skulls, but didn't they change it so now they're all pretty similar?

---

I'd... ...rather not go into it. At some point, I might run out of the pills.

It's weird... I remember when the latest hairstyles were released I went to check them out and two them with a part going down the side of the head went directly under the Viera ears and continued behind said ears.

Yesterday, I checked those same hairstyles again to see if I could actually get into them (because the part going under the hair really bothered me) and...it seems like both hairstyles were fixed. The part on both styles now stop directly in front of the ears instead of contuing right under and behind them.

Maybe the devs noticed that mistake with the Viera hair and fixed it with one of the emergency maintenances.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fukuro

The males got the same problem with certain hairstyles :,)

---

u_u yeah. All ported hairstyles which show the forehead look like that. It's too bad, I really liked some of them on other races.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SherlottaEryut

QUESTIONS:

#1


#2

ETC

---

#1
Yes. But I also wish they had done this with the Au Ra and made made one version tall and buff and the other short and dainty. Instead they divided it along gender. Au Ra are massively popular, however, so if Xaela had checked the "Elegant and Amazonian" boxes I have to wonder if the demand for Viera would have still been there.

#2
Big Yes on changing it/making the hunch optional. I just wish that all the races default posture was to stand straight. (M Viera slouch, M Miqote have their heads down, F Au Ra arch their backs to the point that it gives me flashbacks to being scolded by my ballet teacher, etc)

#3
Sure, but I would prefer that is wasn't race specific, and at least all males could equip it (better if everyone could have their own Ronso outfit!).

#4
Hot Take, but while I think Fran is awesome, I've never liked the skimpy outfits on XII's Viera. The Battle Lingerie just makes me roll my eyes (the shoes can have their uses in glams). That said I know a lot of people do like it. What I wished had happened--since all of these answers are wishes that probably never will--was that F Viera had gotten a XIV style starter set like the males, and that Fran's armor had been in Bozja. We really didn't need three recolors of Penelo's awful XII outfit. That way everyone could have used it and it would have been dyable for those who want a different color. :D But then I suppose ppl would be upset about the job lock. :( Solution: make it a Treasure coffer drop from one of the instances or for currency.

In the spirit of the Thread:
While I'm here pls fix more hats for Viera and Hrothgar. At the very least make Job Armor, Mogstation and Event headpieces past and future equipable.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Naria

#1
In the spirit of the Thread:
While I'm here pls fix more hats for Viera and Hrothgar. At the very least make Job Armor, Mogstation and Event headpieces past and future equipable.

---

A good chunk of job head gear shows hair so that's a no go until they make the hairs work properly, at which point 90% of headgear also becomes a non issue. No excuse for any helmets that hide hair though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HollowedDoll

In the case of Viera ears they could just do what they did with hair, add a deformation to all ears and a flag on hats that would activate said deformation for the bugs bunny method, the other one looks very weird to me.. A bit unsure about the Hrothgar skulls, but didn't they change it so now they're all pretty similar?

---

I agree that a lot of people wouldn't like the method of putting ears on the hat (a pity, because I really liked the idea).

So I believe the "bugs bunny" method would be the most effective. As you said, just put a "deformation" like they do with hair, and that would solve the problem of most helmets. Apart from that it would be faster to make 4 models of ears, than to arrange all the helmets (excellent solution for the lazy SE)

The problem with the "bugs bunny" method is that it leaves the only visible feature of the race (ears) hidden. Okay, it would still have the characteristic nose, but from a distance, a viera would look like a hyur, or elezen.


I know they changed the hrothgar skull, but unsure if they're all the same now

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adamantini

I agree that a lot of people wouldn't like the method of putting ears on the hat (a pity, because I really liked the idea).

So I believe the "bugs bunny" method would be the most effective. As you said, just put a "deformation" like they do with hair, and that would solve the problem of most helmets. Apart from that it would be faster to make 4 models of ears, than to arrange all the helmets (excellent solution for the lazy SE)

The problem with the "bugs bunny" method is that it leaves the only visible feature of the race (ears) hidden. Okay, it would still have the characteristic nose, but from a distance, a viera would look like a hyur, or elezen.


I know they changed the hrothgar skull, but unsure if they're all the same now

---

Hmm, I don't agree on it being hidden, I mean personally I would be in favor of just turning them off with some of them if it meant we could wear hats, but this method still leaves them visible just altered, so it would be a much better one. I imagine the kupo knit cap would look really cute with it. That said it does require more work than just fixing hairs and changing a few flags, so unfortunately I'm not having a lot of hopium.

Also, Viera have a diff body type than either Elezen or Hyur, especially males, plus their hair would be visible as well for some of these hats, so I don't think you wouldn't be able to tell them apart.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HollowedDoll

That said it does require more work than just fixing hairs and changing a few flags, so unfortunately I'm not having a lot of hopium.

---

Just the fact that they would now set a precedent that headpieces are expected to work for viera - meaning extra work - is more so why I see it not happening. At least not anytime soon.

Don't lose hope, folks. I will leave here an image as a symbol of our dreams

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...08/unknown.png

(just to remind: yes, I got it from the internet. No, I don't give credits so as not to cause problems for the authors)

Just let our ears clip. I miss wearing helms :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Minthe

Even the foreheads on these viera models are normal sized, idk what went wrong when SE designed the Viera or if it's a bug with the way the new hair fits but I really hope they fix it.

Viera be lookin like:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...24/unknown.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...50/unknown.png

---

yes please fix giant forehead

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bunnycake

Just let our ears clip. I miss wearing helms :(

---

all of us, my friend... all of us...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RecoveryPotion

yes please fix giant forehead

---

My enormous fivehead raises my intellect from 1 to an entire 2, please don't take this away from me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bunnycake

Just let our ears clip. I miss wearing helms :(

---

This. But just get rid of the dam messing hair tufts around the ears when they clip through.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Soge01

This. But just get rid of the dam messing hair tufts around the ears when they clip through.

---

Currently, if they let everything clip in a really s**** way, it's already an advance. It seems that SE has already earned the money they wanted, and they don't want to make any more effort.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Minthe

This is from the game:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...24/unknown.png

And this is I'm assuming a modded picture:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...50/unknown.png

But look at that difference, the forehead proportion is so much better!!! PLEASE FIX GIANT FOREHEAD ON MALE AND FEMALE VIERA T_T

---

Modders do us a justice I wish SE would notice

I also just wanted to say that all races should get same support. At least I don't get why SE is not able to adjust for example the hats, over time.

There are already adjusted versions outside of lots of hats and helmets. Is there no possibility to talk to those who already did the work for free?

In my opinion it also would be totally okay to just hide the ears, when it makes sense or would look strange otherwhise. If we see it from a roleplay perspective..., and you are a race that is very humanlike, but has differences on the head, than it's totally normal, that it's not possible to identify the race perfectly when someone wears for example a full armour.
And it makes no sense, to make a hole in the armour to let the ears come out.
Unless you want them to get choppied off. xD
Next example is not FF14 but..., when you see a warrior in a fullarmour, you can't say if it's an elf, and orc or a human. SE should not focus so much on 'let the ears be visible'.

Games likes FF14 are a lot about 'style, glam, selfexpression, and so on...' So adjusting these things for all races should have a high priority in my personal opinion. I really hope that SE is going to think about it. :3

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adamantini

Currently, if they let everything clip in a really s**** way, it's already an advance. It seems that SE has already earned the money they wanted, and they don't want to make any more effort.

---

Is that why it looked like they angrily wrote the Aesthetician would work on Hrothgar on the patch notes? "Darn, now we can't squeeze the 2% of the playerbase for fantasia money. Oh well, good while it lasted."

/j

There are no excuses for simply hiding the ears. As I've said before, I've seen a single person make all helmets usable for Hrothgars, and now he's doing the same for Vieras (both female and male). And it's not a simple job of just clipping or hiding the ears, but yes, this one person is modeling the helmets, so they're very well made.

As you can see, even the recent PvP helm, which alias the only race you can't wear are the Vieras, was very well modeled by this person.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...62/unknown.png

Now how can a giant company like SE tell me it's not possible? Even though it's a lengthy job, and some helmets are released patch by patch, there's no excuse not to do it.

I was sort of smh while building this glam. https://ffxiv.eorzeacollection.com/glamour/159929/rebel Not only does the hat have adjustments for miqote ears. The adjustments are decorated....

I would rather have ear holes than ear socks. Miqo ears can still show earrings when their ears stick out. For some reason viera ears don’t. I wish they would at least change that. That hat in that glam is from HW times. They don’t really do miqo ears on anything anymore. The ears just disappear. I think the only new thing that gives ear shape is the reaper hat.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Moonsprite

I would rather have ear holes than ear socks.

---

Don't have to worry, miqo'te get neither anymore. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LuciaMirain

I was sort of smh while building this glam. https://ffxiv.eorzeacollection.com/glamour/159929/rebel Not only does the hat have adjustments for miqote ears. The adjustments are decorated....

---

miss the old SE. The new SE is cutting off all ears, even in the old races.