Viera and Hrothgar Megathread

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Originally Posted by BiddyBatnana

They need to add more racial hair and the aesthetics ones. Then include hats for some of them. Wouldn't fix the issue but could be a temporary remedy for this curse.

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I think for Viera just adding the Modern Aesthetics would actually fix a huge part of the issue, more race exclusive hair and headgear would be the cherry on top compared to that.

Hrothgar is a lot more complicated because no matter how many hairstyles you add they'd still be locked behind a Fantasia in the current system.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

This feels like a pretty weird comment from him (probably translation). He gives a reason for Viera not being able to use stuff and that's because of the long ears. Is there a reason for Hrothgar not being able to get more stuff given other than the unique design? I ask this because several pieces prove they're willing to put in the effort for Hrothgar, one of which being the level 80 AF NIN helm, which actually conforms with the face perfectly and doesn't seem to clip at all.

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That's actually a really good question and once again highlights the problem of talking about these races as a single entity when they have different problems, limitations and proposed solutions.

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Originally Posted by Yencat

I think for Viera just adding the Modern Aesthetics would actually fix a huge part of the issue, more race exclusive hair and headgear would be the cherry on top compared to that.

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That's it for me! I just want to be able to use my mogstation hairs, that I PAID for, and the ones I took time to farm in game to get them. That WOULD make a huge difference in viera's customization!
And it would make me very happy
Regarding the hats... Again, I still don't understand the issue with clipping since it happens a LOT in other races, and in basically in any glam if I have long hair -shrugs-

So based off that interview hats and hair later until the missing genders are added? Male bunny worth it still?

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Originally Posted by Awha

So based off that interview hats and hair later until the missing genders are added? Male bunny worth it still?

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Yes. Looking forward to lionesses too :o

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Originally Posted by Awha

So based off that interview hats and hair later until the missing genders are added? Male bunny worth it still?

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It is, so no sense in being sarcastic.

That said, I don't see a single word about it being only after their full release in that German interview, only that they're working on the means to include everything.

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Originally Posted by Awha

So based off that interview hats and hair later until the missing genders are added? Male bunny worth it still?

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1- Missing genders is worth, always and forever. People who want to play MV and FH shouldn't be given the middle finger just because some aren't happy with the limits of a limited race they chose.

2- To make it clear, hair is something that seems to be 100% coming later and, just like he said last year, they are still looking into ways to make more headgear work for V/H. That's important because it's not a promise, it's simply saying they are still actively trying to figure out a work-around.

My theory? That it may be something that comes with the new Graphics Engine I'm fairly sure is coming sooner than later. After playing NGS Beta, looking at Blue Protocol dev and knowing that there's a LoL MMO coming I'm sure the devs know they need to do something big if they want this game to keep growing for the next decade and problems like hats-n-helms and/ or hair and character memory may be better tackled in a new engine that makes working on stuff easier.

But that's my 2 cents.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

They never even started working on hairs, and you'd think "well isn't it a little late to start having meetings to talk about how to allocate resources to actually create and add hairs for viera?". Seems to me it was probably just a "we'll get to it when we get to it" internally.

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Well, it only took about 30 minutes (self reported) to port the 2B hair to Viera so with 6 months till the next expansion...
But if we were to believe Yoshi-P, they were thinking about it for the last 6 months, according to the interview.


How to make the "impossible" hats work? They only need to make the hairs hat-compatible (and allow the ears to clip through), speaking for Viera only. What makes a hairstyle hat-compatible? It needs to have an alternative shape that gets switched on when wearing a hat, so your hair gets "tucked in" and doesn't clip through. They already have this "advanced" technology on pretty much every other hairstyle in-game. :p

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

1- Missing genders is worth, always and forever. People who want to play MV and FH shouldn't be given the middle finger just because some aren't happy with the limits of a limited race they chose.

2- To make it clear, hair is something that seems to be 100% coming later and, just like he said last year, they are still looking into ways to make more headgear work for V/H. That's important because it's not a promise, it's simply saying they are still actively trying to figure out a work-around.

My theory? That it may be something that comes with the new Graphics Engine I'm fairly sure is coming sooner than later. After playing NGS Beta, looking at Blue Protocol dev and knowing that there's a LoL MMO coming I'm sure the devs know they need to do something big if they want this game to keep growing for the next decade and problems like hats-n-helms and/ or hair and character memory may be better tackled in a new engine that makes working on stuff easier.

But that's my 2 cents.

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You're in denial.

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

1- Missing genders is worth, always and forever. People who want to play MV and FH shouldn't be given the middle finger just because some aren't happy with the limits of a limited race they chose.

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No, genderlock is never worth it, and people don't give the finger, they want the same thing as all other races already existing in the game : choice to make male or female, haistyles, hats. That's it.

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Originally Posted by Awha

So based off that interview hats and hair later until the missing genders are added?

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It doesn't actually say that anywhere in the interview, in fact he doesn't even mention female Hrothgar.

Sooooo hopefully not?

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Originally Posted by BiddyBatnana

You're in denial.

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In denial about ... what? YP literally said they're working on a graphics engine update in the future.
I think they could find away around these problems someday and the chances of doing that in a new graphics engine overhaul for this game seem pretty good seeing as even games like GW2 have figured this stuff out (and that game came out around the time this one did).

IDK what I'm denying lmao

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Originally Posted by Foudroy

No, genderlock is never worth it, and people don't give the finger, they want the same thing as all other races already existing in the game : choice to make male or female, haistyles, hats. That's it.

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I have no clue what you're trying to say buddy, but go off if ya want.

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

In denial about ... what? YP literally said they're working on a graphics engine update in the future.

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To add to this, it seems people took his comment about this a bit too literally.

It'll probably happen at some point but it's not currently planned.

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To put it very clearly, we are not currently working on a redesign of the graphics engine. In a previous interview, I said that we were going to look into the issue and that we might do it one day but I did not say that we were going to do it for sure, there may have had a misunderstanding within the community. Also, with all the graphics we have produced over the past ten years, that would be a huge mountain of work, and unfortunately it would keep us from working on the patches. So we are considering it, but we are not currently working on it.

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From here: https://www.jeuxvideo.com/news/14119...-questions.htm

EDIT : My bad, I misunderstood and read it the opposite way, sorry nvm

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Originally Posted by Foudroy

@reivaxe You said that is ok to not have the missing genders and people must stop complain about it and be happy with limited race ? I just say people want to get a complete race, with both genders and not half limited race

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That's... absolutely not what reivaxe said. Not even close.

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Originally Posted by Amnmaat

The slippery slope of the ad hominen pyramid never fails.
You went from criticizing people's tone towards the devs straight to ad hominen by avoiding the topic and attacking a person's authority to question and discuss the lack of hairstyles and hats/helmets for female Viera (and Male Hrothgar). It doesn't matter if they're aware of the request/feedback, people are free to discuss and bring it up; Square enix's customers are not their enemy, they're stakeholders. That's management 101.

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I didn't know that responding to a comment and clarifying what I was thinking with what I wrote is equal to "avoiding the topic and attacking a person's authority to question and discuss".

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Originally Posted by Yencat

I'm familiar thanks, but your repeated use of the word nagging makes it sounds like we have some sort of direct line to the devs and are bothering them by not just being quiet and patient. I'm sure they'll be just fine if we keep posting or nagging about it here.

This is also the first 'detailed' answer they've given about it in almost 2 years that gives any sort of insight into what the plan is or how far they've progressed so whatever you want to call it, people are going to discuss it and be either excited or slightly annoyed.

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Yes, I agree that my choice or wording could've been wiser.
It probably would've been better if I said "constantly bringing it up", sounds less... nagging. haha.

And well.. I wasn't clear enough about the amount of times they've made a comment about it. When I said "something they've said so several times" I was actually refering to SE statements in general over the couse of various things, not just about the hair.
That was a blunder on my part.

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Originally Posted by Evergrey

I didn't know that responding to a comment and clarifying what I was thinking with what I wrote is equal to "avoiding the topic and attacking a person's authority to question and discuss".
Especially since that response wasn't directed to anyone but simply me clarifying.

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Its what he does, you get used to it and learn to laugh at it.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Its what he does, you get used to it and learn to laugh at it.

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oh, I am well aware of it. But thanks. I appreciate it.

Just give me the male vieras hairstyles. Take resources from one place (looking at you - stickermode, tripletriad cards, fishing or gilsinkmounts) and give it to someone willing to port existing hairstyles to female viera. Oh and while you are at it, give us the option to have darker eyebrows than hair...it looks damn silly when my vieras eyebrows disappear whenever I go blond.

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Originally Posted by Awha

So based off that interview hats and hair later until the missing genders are added? Male bunny worth it still?

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I have mixed feelings. Bunny Boys and Tiger Ladies were never promised, hairs were.
Even though I don't think it's it makes sense having a gender locked race in 2021 so...

On one hand we will have a race complete gender wise, but still incomplete regarding their customization.
I am happy that people are going to be able to live their Bunny Boy/ Tiger Lady fantasy tho!

It still baffles me the fact that the mod community were able to fix the issue in like what, two weeks after? I don't use mods, I will never use. Also I know that XIV dev team does have A LOT on their shoulders, but c'mon 2 years already passed.

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Originally Posted by PurinSato

Even though I don't think it's it makes sense having a gender locked race in 2021 so...

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It makes sense but for lore reasons only. They could have done something similar to Asari from mass effect or the gerudo from zelda. If you make a child with a Viera you are 100% sure to get a female Viera child (maybe with some "unique traits" depending on the father). Hrothgar could have been the same.
But if you don't care about thoose types of lore, yeah it sucks.

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Originally Posted by Juzjuzz

It makes sense but for lore reasons only. They could have done something similar to Asari from mass effect or the gerudo from zelda. If you make a child with a Viera you are 100% sure to get a female Viera child (maybe with some "unique traits" depending on the father). Hrothgar could have been the same.
But if you don't care about thoose types of lore, yeah it sucks.

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Even by lore reasons it doesn't make sense. Remember, for one of the miqote clans, the males never leave the village. Yet we see them all the time. There is always an exception, the world never works in absolutes.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Even by lore reasons it doesn't make sense. Remember, for one of the miqote clans, the males never leave the village. Yet we see them all the time. There is always an exception, the world never works in absolutes.

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If Viera didn't have male and didn't need males in the lore right now (and go outside to make babies), seeing no males make sense imo. For the miqote clan i agree the world doesnt work in adsolutes, so why all the races have to reproduce in the same manner? xD

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Originally Posted by PurinSato

It still baffles me the fact that the mod community were able to fix the issue in like what, two weeks after? I don't use mods, I will never use. Also I know that XIV dev team does have A LOT on their shoulders, but c'mon 2 years already passed.

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"Were able to fix" is a pretty loud word tbh. Half of what they do requires turning off some graphical settings in game because it breaks models, another part clips so badly in animations that it's painful to look at even with clipping we already have as it is, and with some haircuts Viera ears are just flying above the hair.

Mod community is nice and all, but they do things in their free time that they're free to spend however they like and they don't have any responsibility for whatever their creations break (in some cases they can break the game entirely to the point of the need to reinstall it from scratch). SE workers have schedule and responsibility for consequences so no, comparing one to another isn't really valid. I understand the annoyance, but just because we pay 13 euro doesn't mean they have to work themselves to death - crunch culture in gamedev is already bad enough, no need to make it worse.

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Originally Posted by Juzjuzz

It makes sense but for lore reasons only. They could have done something similar to Asari from mass effect or the gerudo from zelda. If you make a child with a Viera you are 100% sure to get a female Viera child (maybe with some "unique traits" depending on the father). Hrothgar could have been the same.
But if you don't care about thoose types of lore, yeah it sucks.

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Oh I don't play with male characters, so I would be fine without bunny boys.
But I do understand that the contrary happens, people who only play male and want to be a bunny so...

But if we go with the lore, cat boys wouldn't exist in the game either tho

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Originally Posted by Halivel

"Were able to fix" is a pretty loud word tbh. Half of what they do requires turning off some graphical settings in game because it breaks models, another part clips so badly in animations that it's painful to look at even with clipping we already have as it is, and with some haircuts Viera ears are just flying above the hair.

Mod community is nice and all, but they do things in their free time that they're free to spend however they like and they don't have any responsibility for whatever their creations break (in some cases they can break the game entirely to the point of the need to reinstall it from scratch). SE workers have schedule and responsibility for consequences so no, comparing one to another isn't really valid. I understand the annoyance, but just because we pay 13 euro doesn't mean they have to work themselves to death - crunch culture in gamedev is already bad enough, no need to make it worse.

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I have no idea how mods work since I don't use them.
But it's not only 13 euros, a lot of people, including me, buy mogstation items, fantasias. Proly most of the players have more than 2 retainers. I mean it is opcional, but still. We are supporting the game you know?
It was just a basic vent, nothing else, I don't mean to harm anyone. Still the interview gave me hope!

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Originally Posted by PurinSato

I have no idea how mods work since I don't use them.

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I don't either, but I was exposed to the community and saw some things that I wish I didn't see. Sometimes they want you to bleach your eyes. That said, I wish I didn't know about mods existence altogether, they're cursed. I avoid screenshots tags in twitter already, because 99% of what there's posted is just...... bad in too many ways.

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Originally Posted by PurinSato

But it's not only 13 euros, a lot of people, including me, buy mogstation items, fantasias. Proly most of the players have more than 2 retainers. I mean it is opcional, but still. We are supporting the game you know?

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Well, I do as well. Have solid half of the Mog bought and 4 additional retainers. Thing is - these money go to the company and financial department. I highly doubt the the staff itself has any noticeable profit from these additional spendings, and as such I tend to be more sympathetic with developer team themselves, because they're just normal people no different from us.

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Originally Posted by PurinSato

It was just a basic vent, nothing else, I don't mean to harm anyone. Still the interview gave me hope!

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Valid. I do hope that his "I hope to have some good news soon" is soon and isn't another 2 or 3 years because it's totally possible. :")

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Originally Posted by PurinSato

Oh I don't play with male characters, so I would be fine without bunny boys.
But I do understand that the contrary happens, people who only play male and want to be a bunny so...

But if we go with the lore, cat boys wouldn't exist in the game either tho

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Yeah it sucks for some players haha but i'm not against gender locked races. I was fine with just female viera tbh.

Because of the Mithra right ? I wasn't there when catboys didn't exist but i think i could have just created a Hyur even if it's a bit boring. If i'm going to ffXI i'm playing Hume and nothing else if i want a male haha. Many games with other races like mass effect lets you play human only, i had fun with that.

I think the main problem is when one gender just looks better than the other. In FFXI Mithra look fine imo, close to female Hume but you won't like Galka if you don't like looking like Hulk.

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Originally Posted by Juzjuzz

Yeah it sucks for some players haha but i'm not against gender locked races. I was fine with just female viera tbh.

Because of the Mithra right ? I wasn't there when catboys didn't exist but i think i could have just created a Hyur even if it's a bit boring. If i'm going to ffXI i'm playing Hume and nothing else if i want a male haha.

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Miqo'te (female only), Roegadyns (male only) and Highlanders (male only) used to be genderlocked in 1.0, so in FF14 already. They were released as complete races in 2.0 due to community feedback.

Ironically enough, just like with Viera and Hrothgar, there was the very same gang of people "but muh lore", "we don't need eye candy", "they better spend resources on something more useful" and all the other arguments against "missing genders" release that were said during last two years about possible Male Viera and Female Hrothgars. History pretty much repeated itself. The only difference is that community is far bigger now, so this time the outcry was also far louder.

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Originally Posted by Halivel

Valid. I do hope that his "I hope to have some good news soon" is soon and isn't another 2 or 3 years because it's totally possible. :")

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Doesn't Japan have like one of the highest life expectancy in the world?
If so, they might not meassure "soon" like we do.

/joking

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Originally Posted by Evergrey

Doesn't Japan have like one of the highest life expectancy in the world?
If so, they might not meassure "soon" like we do.

/joking

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You know what, considering that Viera can easily live for 240+ years and even longer, you might be onto something here. :D

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Originally Posted by Halivel

Miqo'te (female only), Roegadyns (male only) and Highlanders (male only) used to be genderlocked in 1.0, so in FF14 already. They were released as complete races in 2.0 due to community feedback.

Ironically enough, just like with Viera and Hrothgar, there was the very same gang of people "but muh lore", "we don't need eye candy", "they better spend resources on something more useful" and all the other arguments against "missing genders" release that were said during last two years about possible Male Viera and Female Hrothgars. History pretty much repeated itself. The only difference is that community is far bigger now, so this time the outcry was also far louder.

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True but i still think genderlocking for lore is fine as long a the race is created to live like that. If it's just "the other gender is there but they are just rare/hidden/somewere else", ppl will ask for it. Ofc making too mutch genderlocked races is a bad idea and i think it's better if you guive them a look that will pleace a specific niche if you want them to be rare.

But the best option is to stop with the rarity/genderlocking of playable races in the lore. You can do that with beast races aniway. Otherwise you have to know how the players will react to it.

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Originally Posted by PurinSato

Oh I don't play with male characters, so I would be fine without bunny boys.
But I do understand that the contrary happens, people who only play male and want to be a bunny so...

But if we go with the lore, cat boys wouldn't exist in the game either tho

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I would have been perfectly fine without male viera. I would have liked to have been able to play my veena AND look forward to seasonal events, AND hairstyle rewards. They probably created like another eight hairstyles for male viera, female viera could have had one or two, I'd say. Female hroth will be lovely, because if they look like furry femroe, relatively only like two people will play them, and that's yet another race they have to maintain.

The best mods are the ones where they just port something that already exists ingame to another race, for instance I saw one for a short Au ra style that was ported to viera and it looked really great.

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Originally Posted by Halivel

"Were able to fix" is a pretty loud word tbh. Half of what they do requires turning off some graphical settings in game because it breaks models, another part clips so badly in animations that it's painful to look at even with clipping we already have as it is, and with some haircuts Viera ears are just flying above the hair.worse.

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This is not entirely true. Custom hairs might clip badly and some aesthetician hair mods need to be adjusted slightly to reach the base of the floating ears properly. But the big viera hat mod simply goes into item metadatas and clicks the checkbox to turn the hat on for viera, simple as that and then 85% of in game headgear looks perfectly fine. There are then additional mods out there which add hat mode 3d models to viera hairstyles so that they don't clip when wearing a hat.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I would have been perfectly fine without male viera. I would have liked to have been able to play my veena AND look forward to seasonal events, AND hairstyle rewards. They probably created like another eight hairstyles for male viera, female viera could have had one or two, I'd say. Female hroth will be lovely, because if they look like furry femroe, relatively only like two people will play them, and that's yet another race they have to maintain.

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I agree it seems weird to me to add more to the workload so to speak. Fix what you have then move on, just adding more is a quick way to burn out your staff, unless they are just going to port the male hairs over to female, and vise versa. Even then it still seems silly to me focus on one thing a at time if you cite work load as one of the issues as to why they are “limited” in the first place.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I would have been perfectly fine without male viera. I would have liked to have been able to play my veena AND look forward to seasonal events, AND hairstyle rewards. They probably created like another eight hairstyles for male viera, female viera could have had one or two, I'd say. Female hroth will be lovely, because if they look like furry femroe, relatively only like two people will play them, and that's yet another race they have to maintain.

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You should see this one twitter artist's renditions of Fem Hroth...they are BEAUTIFUL T_T

fan rendition of the *REAL*& Queen Gunnhildr
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E2tNP5DV...pg&name=medium

please make hrothgirls look like actual female animals and not that digusting trope of giving them the animal face, but human eyes and lips


ew ew ew ew ew

Good Morning Bunnies and Tigers just bump this up cuz we all deserve more customization in our Vieras and Hrothgars

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Originally Posted by Awha

I agree it seems weird to me to add more to the workload so to speak. Fix what you have then move on, just adding more is a quick way to burn out your staff, unless they are just going to port the male hairs over to female, and vise versa. Even then it still seems silly to me focus on one thing a at time if you cite work load as one of the issues as to why they are “limited” in the first place.

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I actually dont think they will port over the male hairs to females....which is sad.