Not picking at you in particular, but the sentiment in general: because the hate management tool is not super-duper flasherific, that somehow trumps that it is in fact a new mechanic that only NIN can use? Or that some NIN are actually looking forward to its addition? Or that it can and probably will be of use to many a NIN?Quote:
Originally Posted by silentwindfr
And i can't stress that last bit enough. Shrug it off if you like, but there are a lot of bad tanks out there. And there are a TON more bad DPS that exacerbate the lack of good tanks. Hate management has needed some help for a while and i personally think NIN getting a direct hand in this is a very good thing.
RIP Ninja
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05-27-2015, 07:55 PMSpiritreaver1217
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05-27-2015, 08:00 PMsilentwindfrit don't change my statement, it was a skill that it was able to be added with a patch, it's not like they haven't done it before... not a skill for an expansion, i'm sorry... this situational tool is not about being flashy, but about the utility from it, the fact that it will simply give an escuse for bad tank to stay bad... sorry, a skill must'nt be used for cover for bad player... i'm sorry but this skill for me.... is not needed. until now, even with undergear tank or bad tank, i had always adapted my gameplay for never get the aggro. is not that hard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiritreaver1217
all of this is about the fact that the ninja didn't even get a raiton 2 or stuff like this, we simply did get piece of scraps that they did find because they had no time or capacity for find better mechanic to be added.
you want to know, i will not even be surprise that when they did design the ninja, they even not planned the skill added for the expansion, thinking that it was not important since the jobs was recent. and i find it quite rude for the player that did switch to offer so ridiculous skill. -
05-27-2015, 08:01 PMNalienI'm certainly looking forward to going balls to the wall aggressive right at the start of a pull and actually helping the tank as a result, rather than making their life harder and potentially dying if they suck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiritreaver1217
I can see it being useful for tank swaps as well, making them much more steady and removing the need for "Don't use Regen" that I see a lot because it can mess up various tank swaps/mob split mechanics. In a perfect world perhaps it's not useful, but sometimes shit happens, taking the hate off whoever currently has it and plopping it right onto the recently raised tank will be useful. Enmity reset isn't a mechanics I think we've seen in FFXIV yet, it was certainly prominent enough in FFXI for me to remember, could be useful for that too if they decide to add it in Heavensward.
Only reason to get upset over it seems to be the lack of anything else for Ninja. I'm sure they left out similar new skills for other Jobs, but the fact that they mentioned it for Ninja indicates they don't have much to offer Ninja. Why is that a surprise though? Ninja is already the worst Job as far as worthless skills go. So many are redundant outright or can be made so. Dancing Edge is worthless with a Warrior tank. They gave us the skills for stance dancing and did nothing with it... Hide is nice in PvP and good for a free Trick Attack on trash pulls, replaced by Sution otherwise though, using it to actually sneak past anything at 50 simply doesn't work. Sneak Attack is just out right pointless at the moment. How often does anyone use Hyoton outside PvP? Christ, this is a Job which got All Fours as a trait, that trait is absolutely pointless... They were struggling to come up with ideas for Ninja when they released it, figures they'd have the same problem for raising the level cap. It's kind of amazing that Ninja is as great a Job as it is, given how many Feint/Haymaker/Tri-Disaster level of worthless skill bloat it has... -
05-27-2015, 09:47 PMDuuude007It allows an overgeared dps to unload without concern for whether the monster will even think of turning.Quote:
Originally Posted by silentwindfr
Not every tank is on par with every dps. An i120 tank could easily struggle against an i130, let alone four dps, each potentially attacking a different mob. -
05-27-2015, 09:55 PMAdire
I was in WoD today with a Burtgang tank on the 5-headed dragon.
The tank pulled, I Shukuchi'd over as usual, weaved in my offensive buffs between my usual DE combo followed by a trick attack and kassatsu'd raiton and Aeolion edge combo. All hits crit, I ended up turning the dragon around towards the raid when I suddenly got aggro, they all scattered like cockroaches after being cleaved and caught in the massive AoE.
So I like the enmity dump skill. I'd like more exciting things added too, but I'm definitely aware of its usefulness. -
05-27-2015, 10:15 PMRiepahBut it's 100% useless if you're in a group with people who're both geared and competent enough for the content you're doing. And in any other content it's nothing 2-3 seconds of watching your aggro and auto attacking can't fix.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duuude007
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05-27-2015, 10:27 PMNalienThat's the appeal of it though. Rather than literally doing nothing for a few seconds and halting your DPS, you can continue pushing DPS to the limit with zero repercussions as far as enmity goes, if anything you're helping the tank by zerging from the word go. For 24 man content this will be a very nice addition, generally not statics there and things can get a bit crazy with the number of adds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Riepah
I can even actually see it being fairly useful for grouped content as well. Rather than waiting for the tank to establish hate on an add (which they may have to pull from afar) I can just rush it from the word go and slap my hate onto the tank. One tank strats become much cleaner as well. Been doing a lot of pony farming lately, with DPS tanking one of Garuda's sisters, since none of them have any enmity combos that can get a bit hectic and she can bounce around a bit. Nothing world breaking, but with this I could easily make one DPS the OT and make things much smoother.
This skill will be far from useless. Sneak Attack is useless (or at least it will be when they finally go back and adjust Demon Wall to be the same as all other similar type mobs they've released since). All Fours is useless. This has its place. I'm going to laugh so hard when changes in Heavensward actually result in tanks having a harder time with enmity. Heck, if they balance the stance dancing and new DPS output accordingly this could be an invaluable tool which lets a MT stay in DPS stance for longer, meaning overall higher DPS. This is basically a "Hey tank, don't worry about your enmity just yet and stay in Sword Oath/Deliverance/Darkside for a bit longer" skill when it comes to serious endgame, far from useless there. -
05-27-2015, 10:32 PMSongi
Still a waste of a new skill.
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05-27-2015, 10:43 PMDuuude007My THF/NIN is rolling in its grave by that statement.Quote:
Originally Posted by Songi
You don't DF, do you.Quote:
Originally Posted by rappa
Here, as in pre 3.0 content with full parties near i130 gear average? I'll buy that. But we can't expect that to always be the case, especially with all of the DPS potency boosts coming up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Songi
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05-27-2015, 10:45 PMrappa
Are you a tank and a ninja steal the aggro? Git gud
Who cares an undergeared tank on a random dungeon to farm tomestone is unable to hold aggro. You must focus on damage with similar geared players.