White Raven earring given out at The Rising event 2018

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Originally Posted by Eight

I finished the fight in 1.0 and forgot the earrings even existed sitting on retainer it's not like they are some sought after item that gives you an advantage. I also have Dalamud Horn sitting on my retainer that's completely useless, just let people enjoy the items.

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You can save some space and put both in the airmoire.

How many hints do you need, that SE dont need veteran players anymore?
1.0 items, veteran rewards - legacy tattoo in mog station coming soon!

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Originally Posted by Caitlyn

How many hints do you need, that SE dont need veteran players anymore?
1.0 items, veteran rewards - legacy tattoo in mog station coming soon!

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Your concluing that from a pair of earrings. Interesting.

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Originally Posted by Caitlyn

How many hints do you need, that SE dont need veteran players anymore?
1.0 items, veteran rewards - legacy tattoo in mog station coming soon!

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You may want to change that to not needing legacy players anymore. I would like to think that after 4.5 years and 4,000 posts we could count you as a veteran.

Regardless, I do expect to see everything in the MogStation at some point. The question isn’t “if” they add them anymore, it’s only a question of “when” do they add them.

Most people are new though. Veterans have their reduced sub costs. I'm sure you'd prefer that than Square Enix to give you one new cosmetic and then you back and charge you accrued subscription costs.

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Originally Posted by Tint

This topic is now longer than the topic about Pagos.

And yes, an item in a video game. People pay lots of money for items in videogames. Of course not for this specific one, but it tells us that virtual items are maybe more important for a lot of people than you think.

You are a high end crafter, yes? Who invests lots of time to get tons of gil back? What would you say when they just give everyone the same amount of gil you have, wich makes the gil completely worthless due to inflation and all your work spent is redundant now? Would you just shrug it off like nothing? So many weeks of hard work are gone. That was time of your real life as well. But at least you have the memorys of the fun materia melding, fun adjusting prices at the retainers, fun waiting for the mats to spawn, fun crafting this item you need for the final craft a few hundred times... well, you maybe really did had fun, who knows? You would not play this when it was not fun to you.

But would you shrug it off like nothing?

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I mean, I have pentamelded crafting gear and in 2-3 weeks, it'll be considered dated. Come a year from now, it'll all be rendered trash as the new expansion releases with far superior options. Meanwhile, it took five years before the White Raven earrings were re-released. So... probably not the best comparison to make.

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Originally Posted by Lubu_Mykono

Most people are new though. Veterans have their reduced sub costs. I'm sure you'd prefer that than Square Enix to give you one new cosmetic and then you back and charge you accrued subscription costs.

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We got a new cosmetic and I missed it??? Rats!

I don’t give a crap about the reduced sub fee. Some people go all kinds of crazy over that. If $5 per month is that much of a big deal, I think they may need to re-evaluate how they spend their money.

Is your question, would I trade the White Ravens maintaining their exclusivity in exchange for the abolition of my reduced sub and be back charged for the difference in sub? While I want to say yes, $300 isn’t much money to me, I suspect they will change that too since things change. Therefore, out of lack of trust, I would decline.

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Originally Posted by Istaru

We got a new cosmetic and I missed it??? Rats!

I don’t give a crap about the reduced sub fee. Some people go all kinds of crazy over that. If $5 per month is that much of a big deal, I think they may need to re-evaluate how they spend their money.

Is your question, would I trade the White Ravens maintaining their exclusivity in exchange for the abolition of my reduced sub and be back charged for the difference in sub? While I want to say yes, $300 isn’t much money to me, I suspect they will change that too since things change. Therefore, out of lack of trust, I would decline.

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5 ‎€ every month, over the course of 5 years (and counting) make a difference.
Your condescending attitude is great though, keep it up.

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Originally Posted by Odstarva

5 ‎€ every month, over the course of 5 years (and counting) make a difference.
Your condescending attitude is great though, keep it up.

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Thank you for your permission.

It’s an entire $300, you make it sound like a fortune. $5 per month at 12 months is $60 per year, at 5 years is $300, I won’t even ask for my $45 back. I spend over $100 per month on tea alone.

If I was so poor that $5 per month was a significant expense, I wouldn’t be spending $15 per month on a video game!

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Originally Posted by Istaru

Thank you for your permission.

It’s an entire $300, you make it sound like a fortune. $5 per month at 12 months is $60 per year, at 5 years is $300, I won’t even ask for my $45 back. I spend over $100 per month on tea alone.

If I was so poor that $5 per month was a significant expense, I wouldn’t be spending $15 per month on a video game!

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https://media1.tenor.com/images/802d...itemid=3457590

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Originally Posted by Caitlyn

How many hints do you need, that SE dont need veteran players anymore?

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I think they are (some of) the veterans that must accept that five years are a fair time to get "exclusive", instead.

Now times are changed, this is not 1.0 anymore, and they have to deal with it. And them clinging to how much epic and beautiful 1.0 was, and I don't even know how much other good things 1.0 had, totally discharging the FACT that the so-called wonderful/epic/great 1.0 were to make SE bankrupt.

If SE didn't made the effort (and the risk) of make 2.0, all those whining veterans were to keep that "exclusivity" in their screenshot lying somewhere in their hard disks.

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Originally Posted by Istaru

Thank you for your permission.

It’s an entire $300, you make it sound like a fortune. $5 per month at 12 months is $60 per year, at 5 years is $300, I won’t even ask for my $45 back. I spend over $100 per month on tea alone.

If I was so poor that $5 per month was a significant expense, I wouldn’t be spending $15 per month on a video game!

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This is just sad.

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

I don't even know how much other good things 1.0 had.

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I’m going to do you a solid here and help you out.

The most coveted unavailable items would be:
The legacy Chocobo
The legacy Goobbue
Dalamud’s Horn
The legacy tramp stamp
Hermès Sandles

Oops, I almost forgot the most important thing of all. I hope you’re sitting down for this part. You get to save $5 off your sub!! We had to pay for that privilege back in 1.0, but you’re here now and you want it, and by golly you should have it too!

There was a thread asking for these things to be added to next year’s Rising event. I was going to add a link for you, but I don’t see it now. I suggest you make a new one. If the devs see enough requests, they will quite literally give you anything that you ask for. Seriously.

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Originally Posted by ErryK

This is just sad.

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It is sad that people still see that someone has something they covet and they can’t stand that they don’t have it.

Personally, SE could give everyone a $9.99 sub and I seriously wouldn’t give a :poop:.

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Originally Posted by Istaru

There was a thread asking for these things to be added to next year’s Rising event. I was going to add a link for you, but I don’t see it now. I suggest you make a new one. If the devs see enough requests, they will quite literally give you anything that you ask for. Seriously.

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To be fair, I think that thread was made to mock the very people who would seriously ask for something like that. lol

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

To be fair, I think that thread was made to mock the very people who would seriously ask for something like that. lol

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I agree, and though I was someone unhappy about them giving out quest rewards, I decided I just don’t five a guck anymore. I actually had a couple giggles from it.

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Originally Posted by Istaru

Thank you for your permission.

It’s an entire $300, you make it sound like a fortune. $5 per month at 12 months is $60 per year, at 5 years is $300, I won’t even ask for my $45 back. I spend over $100 per month on tea alone.

If I was so poor that $5 per month was a significant expense, I wouldn’t be spending $15 per month on a video game!

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Mighty expensive tea, if you burn 100 dollars a month on it.
You're making assumptions on how well someone is or isn't and I don't see how that is part of the argument at all.

Some of us care about how much we spend, regardless of how little you think it is.
By your own admission, you'd just as well spend 200 $ on a game that would normally be priced at 60 simply because it doesn't inconvenience you.

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After giving it some deeper thought though, I can't rightly argue that it is a big expense. But the point remains that it is by far the best reward legacy players have, for it is the only one that has any monetary value, in the form of a discount. It's still money you can spend elsewhere.

Maybe the earrings mean more to you.
To some of us, it really doesn't.

So to reiterate, I'd happily give up these event earrings if I'd get a retroactive refund, and got a discounted sub.
Would you be willing to give up your discount, to keep the earrings an exclusive? :b

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Originally Posted by Odstarva

Would you be willing to give up your discount, to keep the earrings an exclusive? :b

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I pretty much said so here:

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Originally Posted by Istaru

Is your question, would I trade the White Ravens maintaining their exclusivity in exchange for the abolition of my reduced sub and be back charged for the difference in sub? While I want to say yes, $300 isn’t much money to me, I suspect they will change that too since things change. Therefore, out of lack of trust, I would decline.

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I would decline only out if a lack of faith in them honoring it. No amount of money can change how I feel about that. Shame on me for ever believing them. They are a company and getting money is all that matters. They decided that they had little or nothing to lose by giving them away. That is their choice. I used to think higher of them than EA or Activision. My fault, lesson learned. I won’t trust them like that again.

I will say one last thing about the money part. I understand the monetary value thing and you are correct. That has tangible value. I also firmly believe that if you are poor enough that $5 is that significant, spending $15 on a monthly fee for a video game may not be the best use of your very limited money.

Technically, another thing but should’ve been said too. I will also say that it is a shame that there are people on that situation, especially when there are people who couldn’t even spend all their money if they tried. That’s what is truly sad.

On my tea habit? Starbucks every day gets expensive fast!

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Originally Posted by Istaru

On my tea habit? Starbucks every day gets expensive fast!

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And that's the reason why poor people are sitting most of the time at home. They simply don't have the money to go out and do something. Spending 15 bucks a month for FF14 is actually a good investment to get some entertainment. Especially compared to buying a new game every few weeks.
You can meet people in the virtual world without the hassle to have to spend 3 bucks on a coffee, paying 5 bucks for public transport and 10 to get into a night club or whatever.

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Originally Posted by Istaru

We got a new cosmetic and I missed it??? Rats!

I don’t give a crap about the reduced sub fee. Some people go all kinds of crazy over that. If $5 per month is that much of a big deal, I think they may need to re-evaluate how they spend their money.

Is your question, would I trade the White Ravens maintaining their exclusivity in exchange for the abolition of my reduced sub and be back charged for the difference in sub? While I want to say yes, $300 isn’t much money to me, I suspect they will change that too since things change. Therefore, out of lack of trust, I would decline.

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300$ are 300$ just because you don't know the value of money it doesn't have to count for others too no matter if they have a high income or not.

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Originally Posted by Ilan

300$ are 300$ just because you don't know the value of money it doesn't have to count for others too no matter if they have a high income or not.

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Exactly. I'm not the richest person in the world but I'm fairly well off. That being said, I'll still take a 6 hour journey on buses as it's free over a train journey that takes 40m but costs £20, because I'm a tight Yorkshireman. Every quid saved adds up, even if it's only a minute amount each time.

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Originally Posted by Ilan

300$ are 300$ just because you don't know the value of money it doesn't have to count for others too no matter if they have a high income or not.

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$300 is $300? No way. I love how you state that with such conviction. So adorable.

As far as not knowing the value of money. That is entirely different. $300 is not an amount of money, especially over 5 years, that will affect me one way or the other. It’s not significant enough of an amount for me to notice either way. It’s too small. Just like most people wouldn’t miss 0.50 here or 0.75 there. It still has value, but due to its size, it lacks significance.

I can try to explain it to you, but I can’t understand it for you. Sorry not sorry.

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Originally Posted by Istaru

$300 is $300? No way. I love how you state that with such conviction. So adorable.

As far as not knowing the value of money. That is entirely different. $300 is not an amount of money, especially over 5 years, that will affect me one way or the other. It’s not significant enough of an amount for me to notice either way. It’s too small. Just like most people wouldn’t miss 0.50 here or 0.75 there. It still has value, but due to its size, it lacks significance.

I can try to explain it to you, but I can’t inderstand it for you. Sorry not sorry.

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Probably one of the most condescending people I've seen on these forums. Such a sad thing to witness.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

Probably one of the most condescending people I've seen on these forums. Such a sad thing to witness.

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Only probably?

I have to try harder next time.

I thought this was about the earrings, but it seems I wandered into a discussion about economics. Sorry, I'll leave now.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

Probably one of the most condescending people I've seen on these forums. Such a sad thing to witness.

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There is a point to be made that Money over Time is not Money, just like Distance over Time is not Distance. They're separate measurements entirely, and when broken down, $300 over five years is about $0.16 a day, which is almost not even worth thinking about for the average citizen of the united states.

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Originally Posted by Istaru

Only probably?

I have to try harder next time.

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You're really not helping any kind of case you have by acting like this. Just looking at Momomi alone, you've already got her looking at the tone of your argument more than your argument, and it's understandable why they would be attracted to your combative method of communication.

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Originally Posted by Istaru

$300 is $300? No way. I love how you state that with such conviction. So adorable.

As far as not knowing the value of money. That is entirely different. $300 is not an amount of money, especially over 5 years, that will affect me one way or the other. It’s not significant enough of an amount for me to notice either way. It’s too small. Just like most people wouldn’t miss 0.50 here or 0.75 there. It still has value, but due to its size, it lacks significance.

I can try to explain it to you, but I can’t understand it for you. Sorry not sorry.

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Oh dear god do i smell the try of sarcasm? :rolleyes:

You didn't understand it and you don't even want to understand it why people say it is the best bonus what legacy players have (yeah yeah not all) because its "just" 5 Bucks a month. But its cool you don't have to understand basic things, like value.

Paladinleeds exactly.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

You're really not helping any kind of case you have by acting like this. Just looking at Momomi alone, you've already got her looking at the tone of your argument more than your argument, and it's understandable why they would be attracted to your combative method of communication.

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Thank you for the advice, being serious on that statement. I believe you are being sincere.

Before anyone tells me, I know the internet is full of cheaters and liars. I don’t care.

Also serious, most people on these forums barely read a damn thing anyone posts, or considers anything before attacking or strawmanning the living crap out of the person they respond to.

It’s kinda sad, was having a mostly civil conversation until that clown had to jump in and crap all over the place.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

There is a point to be made that Money over Time is not Money, just like Distance over Time is not Distance. They're separate measurements entirely, and when broken down, $300 over five years is about $0.16 a day, which is almost not even worth thinking about for the average citizen of the united states.

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Sure, but $300 is still $300, and anyone would be happy to have them rather than not. Those $300 are still going to buy you the same amount of stuff no matter how much money you have, and having them is better than not.

Permanent time-based exclusives are a terrible idea in a game like this.

I get that people want their trophies, but five years is plenty of time to get your jollies on having these things.

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Originally Posted by Istaru

Thank you for the advice, being serious on that statement. I believe you are being sincere.

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No problem ^^ I get pretty heated too. I did it earlier in this thread, and honestly I still feel kind of stupid about it.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

Sure, but $300 is still $300, and anyone would be happy to have them rather than not. Those $300 are still going to buy you the same amount of stuff no matter how much money you have, and having them is better than not.

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That's perfectly true. It depends on the perspective you look at it from.
Napkin math:
I've played for 1,620 days; roughly 4 and a half years. Multiply by 12 for months; roughly 53, and then multiply by 15 for cost per month (I get the 3 month bundle, but I didn't always so I'll just use this, and not count the free months from buying the ps4 version and pc version): that's about $798, if my math isn't too terribly off.

$800 could get me a GTX1080Ti, or a GTX2080. It's a lot of money, especially for me.

Divide that by 1,620: 0.49. So I've been paying roughly $0.49 per day to access this game for 4 and a half years. While the total cost may still be the same, it's a lot easier to swallow the cost presented like this, because instead of looking at it as "With the money I'd have saved not playing XIV over 4 and a half years I could have gotten a GTX2080!" and more as "Well what else was I gonna pay half a dollar for today?"

TL;DR: I get where she's coming from, and I get where you're coming from, and I think they're both valid points of view on the money presented here.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

Sure, but $300 is still $300, and anyone would be happy to have them rather than not. Those $300 are still going to buy you the same amount of stuff no matter how much money you have, and having them is better than not.

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What you say is factually correct. I’m going to be nice and have a discussion with you, I should not have reacted with the same disgust as I did with that thing earlier. I apologize for my reply.

The conversation originally started off about relative value. Your statement is about absolute value. They are different things.

Would I sit in a 40°C room for 24 hours for a $300 remittance? The answer is no, my comfort is worth more to me than gaining $300. Relatively speaking, the $300 has less value. Its kinda why we buy air conditioning units and pay the electric bills that come with them.

As consumers, we assign relative value to everything, it’s how we decide if we want to spend X amount on product Y. We give them a valuation and buy when it is equal to or less than that valuation, and abstain when it is greater. That valuation is unique to every person and every item. They are relative to them.

Example: I am looking at LED memory chips for my computer, I’m not actually, just an example. I have perfectly functioning memory chips, but I want ones I can show off with when I’m streaming. They cost $600. For some people, they will decide that they are worth the expense based upon their valuation. Others will opt out due to the price not being in line with the value they personally signed.

I agree with dual, the fact it is over time does have an effect on the relative value. Since it is only $5 at a time, it is not as significant as if it was a single cost of $300. Personally, I see them very differently.

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Originally Posted by Istaru

What you say is factually correct. I’m going to be nice and have a discussion with you, I should not have reacted with the same disgust as I did with that thing earlier. I apologize for my reply.

The conversation originally started off about relative value. Your statement is about absolute value. They are different things.

Would I sit in a 40°C room for 24 hours for a $300 remittance? The answer is no, my comfort is worth more to me than gaining $300. Relatively speaking, the $300 has less value. Its kinda why we buy air conditioning units and pay the electric bills that come with them.

As consumers, we assign relative value to everything, it’s how we decide if we want to spend X amount on product Y. We give them a valuation and buy when it is equal to or less than that valuation, and abstain when it is greater. That valuation is unique to every person and every item. They are relative to them.

Example: I am looking at LED memory chips for my computer, I’m not actually, just an example. I have perfectly functioning memory chips, but I want ones I can show off with when I’m streaming. They cost $600. For some people, they will decide that they are worth the expense based upon their valuation. Others will opt out due to the price not being in line with the value they personally signed.

I agree with dual, the fact it is over time does have an effect on the relative value. Since it is only $5 at a time, it is not as significant as if it was a single cost of $300. Personally, I see them very differently.

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I see where you're coming from. Also, I apologize earlier for saying "people" and not "posts." That post may not have been indicative of how you generally are. Though if you are that way, then hey, that's just how you are I guess.

Looking at the relative value of it, I see it as a 33% discount. That's pretty large, and a 33% discount on anything is a great thing. You did have to pay a bit to achieve it, though, so that does devalue it a little bit.

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Originally Posted by dragonseth07

Permanent time-based exclusives are a terrible idea in a game like this.

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It's great for promoting activity.
If it's one thing they did right with PvP to increase it's userbase is the limited rewards.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

It's great for promoting activity.
If it's one thing they did right with PvP to increase it's userbase is the limited rewards.

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Actually, that had more of a detrimental effect. Because the rewards are limited to only 100 people per datacenter, and are timed exclusives, very few people consider it an incentive. Considering PvP has arguably been at its lowest point throughout Stormblood, I'd say the rewards aren't working. Overwatch specifically moved away from exclusives because of this reason.

Giving away rewards for the "top PVP competitors" only encourages people to participate if they think they have any chance of winning.

I know I'm terrible at PVP, so I wouldn't even try, however much I wanted a particular thing they were offering as a prize. I'd just be disappointed to see it there where I'd never be able to get it.

On the other hand, the recent addition of the hairstyle and emote to the Wolves' Den shop did get me playing Frontline for a few weeks to earn them, because I knew I could get there eventually even if I was terrible.

(In my case I've dropped it again straight afterwards, but maybe I would have discovered a liking for it.)

Hello, everyone. This is FFXIV Producer and Director, Naoki Yoshida.
First of all, I'd like to thank our players for all the feedback and discussion regarding the "White Ravens" reward for the Rising seasonal event─an item which many remember from before the rebirth of FFXIV.

Combing through the global feedback, on top of a business trip and checking the content for patch 4.4, has prevented me from commenting on this issue in a timely manner, and for that I apologize.

I would also like to apologize to those who feel the decision to give away the White Ravens as a reward was unfair or disappointing, as undermining prior achievements was certainly not the intention of the development and operations teams.
We are deeply sorry for this oversight, and we now realize our mistake in not making the item a "replica" in the first place, as has been suggested.


With this in mind, I've put together a summary of what we hope to accomplish with this seasonal event, and how we intend to move forward after digesting your feedback.

- The Rising 2018
This marks the fifth anniversary of FINAL FANTASY XIV: A Realm Reborn. It is thanks to the many legacy players who stayed with us since the game's original inception that we were able to effect this rebirth. And now, five years later, with the support of new players from across the globe, FFXIV has grown beyond my wildest expectations.
Even as we develop the game throughout the year, promotional work takes me around the world, and since last year's Stormblood expansion, I've fielded an ever-increasing number of requests to recreate the story and atmosphere of FFXIV's early days in some form.

I've responded by explaining that the story for FFXIV's previous incarnation was, to be completely honest, a shambles. The original main scenario was abandoned─using the shaky servers and systems available, I took the Grand Company scenario and forcibly reshaped it to become the main thrust of the story. It was the sense of impending calamity and expectations for rebirth that made it come alive, which is not something that can necessarily be reproduced. The excitement also came from the legacy players themselves─the sense of community and support which arose from that shared experience.

We've also had requests for a "legacy server," if only a temporary one. Those servers have long been dismantled, and although the source code has been preserved, there is little incentive for us to restore them (some of those servers have, in fact, been repurposed to generate your character images that you see displayed on the Lodestone.)

Others have asked for the story alone to be told on a DVD or in a book, but as I've already mentioned, the plot was plagued with issues, and as I took the liberty of ignoring certain points of lore, it suffers from numerous inconsistencies. I think it's fair to say that it worked precisely because─as the rebirth was described at its unveiling─it was a "once-in-a-lifetime experience" that marked the end of an era.

When the new era of FFXIV began, we gained a host of new players who took to the game with a passion, and we in the development and operations team have as much regard and gratitude for these adventurers as we do for our original veterans.

Our legacy players stood with us through the challenging days of FFXIV's rebirth, but we've had our share of difficulties in the years that followed, and it is through the support of all our players that we've succeeded to this degree.

Despite the many requests, it's just not possible to faithfully recreate FFXIV as it once was. Our stance on the matter has not changed. But we did, however, decide that the fifth anniversary of the rebirth was the perfect timing to provide at least a glimpse into how the game was back then. And thus the theme for this year's Rising was born.

As well as giving legacy players the chance to reminisce, our hope is that the event encourages them to share those memories and experiences with newer players, and in doing so strengthen the game's community. Taking that idea one step further, having the reward be a "replica" is, I believe, more in line with the spirit of the event.

- Plans for the Future
Although some players were of the opinion that the reward was not an issue, many others voiced their disappointment. And the fact that these players came forth is evidence that we failed to give the matter due consideration.

Our legacy players have memories that are tied to that earlier time─I was reminded that the excitement and pride they experienced in acquiring the White Ravens is bound up in the item itself, regardless of its stats or appearance. I, myself, am the sort of person who separates the experience from the physical reward, but that doesn't excuse the failure to consider those who feel otherwise. I intend to learn from this lesson moving forward, and continue to develop FFXIV as a game that everyone can enjoy.


Once again, I offer our sincere apologies to those whom we've upset with our lack of foresight and consideration, especially in a time when we should be celebrating this anniversary together.

It has been five years since FFXIV's rebirth, and nine years since its original inception, and I hope we can enjoy many more to come!

FINAL FANTASY XIV Producer and Director, Naoki Yoshida

While I am not a 1.0 player, I feel that I must say this, I thank you from the bottom of my heart Naoki_Yoshida for that post. Thank you for the interaction with us, it was truthfully unexpected from me & I truthfully appreciate it.

Yoshi P,

Can I get a 1.0 rear end? I don't care if it says "replica" on it.

Words are nothing without action Yoshida.

Or will this just be another item added to the list of broken promises.