Cash shop confirmed

I'm pretty surprised at the outcry over the cash shop. Of course, though, as the nature of this sub, you guys have to find something to cry about. Atma nerf finally comes? Hold on to your pitch forks, guys, people will be able to buy.... MOUNTS. OMG.

I could not care less about the cash shop, and if they add certain things to it I really like, I'll buy them.

It in no way effects your gaming experience. Get over yourselves.

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Originally Posted by Dwill

Or did you omit to read the part where their net assets had increased by 5%, with their total liabilities increasing more than their total assets. This game didn't make them have an unlimited cash flow like people seem to believe and considering they had a massive drop in their investing activities, they need the money to invest in other products.

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That is for their whole business. Their digital entertainment division is doing very well. They can't fund the entire company with FFXIV but you can't ruin the business of a single division in some attempt to make the whole company more profitable

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Originally Posted by NozomiKei

v
retainers
v
Old seasonal "vanity" items
v
New exclusive "vanity" items

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v
Next Exclusive merchandise items T_T

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Originally Posted by RaspberryRipple

That is for their whole business. Their digital entertainment division is doing very well. They can't fund the entire company with FFXIV but you can't ruin the business of a single division in some attempt to make the whole company more profitable

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Actually, Digital Entertainment division is the doing the best but all of their other 3 divisions have been showing steady progress as well. Additional funding from the DE division could quite make a huge difference in cost of investment to RoI ratio.

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Originally Posted by Barboron

This obviously was planned though. Setting up a cash shop isn't like turning around a day before the FanFest and deciding then. Careful decisions have to go into how it is implemented, what goes in, pricing etc. So this would have been planned for some time.
The reason there is so much disagreement with it is because of where this can lead to.

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So, the Mog Station has been around for a bit and sold Game Codes, Fantasias (This is still an in-game item, don't try to deny this and Extra Retainers (ACTUALLY GIVES YOU AN ADVANTAGE OVER THE PEOPLE THAT USES the IN-GAME 2 ONLY IN CERTAIN AREAS), and has been around for months - did the Mog Station suddenly start selling EXP booster packs? Gil packs? Exclusive dungeons passes?Exclusive materia packs?

????

People are under the assumption that it will go the F2P Pay to Win route, which means they're subtly admitting this game isn't doing as well as they claim.

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

Point in case. Slepnir mount.

Right now:

Cash shop item exclusive, price to determine. Not in game content tho we are paying for it, behind a paywall.


How should be:

Slepnir Mount is added as a reward to X content.
3 months later, it becomes a cash shop alternative.

So content is designed and build for the game, not the cash shop.

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So as in my original post you'd be totally okay with an item with maybe an 0.000000000000001% drop rate simply because it was offered in game but was later going to be put on the cash shop? With no negative feelings what-so-ever against Square-Enix for baiting and forcing people to use the cash shop? I really think SE learned this lesson with Final Fantasy: All The bravest and Final Fantasy XIII-2 DLC "Requiem of the Goddess" that this method is bad practice for a cash shop. Let items made for the cash shop stay on the cash shop. None are needed to play the game. Let the items needed to play the game and complete the game and story stay open to all players and free of the cash shop.

Until a time comes where we /need/ a slepnir mount to play the game. Its nothing more then vanity and if SE wants to sell vanity and players want to spend the money for one then any company be it SE, SOE, Blizzard, Carbine, Arena.Net, etc has every right to stay with this and be free to sell items and vanity.

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

If they put the new race behind a paywal

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You mean when you buy the expansion pack?

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Originally Posted by tocsin

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Vanity gear means Vanity gear not the current baseline of gear. There was also a comment you made about Atma being in the shop? Nah man, that's also pay to win. I wanted to reply to you so bad but I ran out of daily posts.

This shop agree with it or not, I'm not making a decision yet, but if Yoshida was serious about what he said for no pay to win. It doesn't matter.

It'll never happen where you see items that give any kind of advantage what so ever. That means, No atma, No i90, No i110, No free levels, No Experience boosters, No Instant 50's ,No relic weapons, No Nexus Light boosters, No Materia, No Alexandrite, No Tomestones, No Allied seals, No GC seals, None of that.

I'm not trying to be mean but, You need to understand where the line is drawn between acceptable and pay to win. Mounts, Minions, old event stuff, that does nothing to anyone, cept maybe collectors. That stuff up there though, even just a tiny tiny advantage is still considered pay to win. You said you deserve to have done 12 hours of farming because you worked for 12 hours? By that logic someone who works double shifts every day and can't even be bothered to play instead of sleep should be able to buy High end raid equipment.

It just doesn't work like that.

As for my thoughts on the Cash shop itself. Eh, A little salty about the Sleipnir, but with no confirmation of whether or not any of this stuff is cash shop exclusive, I will reserve my judgment period.

What harm could there be if these little minions for a couple of bucks come from some maps you'd have to grind as well as the cash shop? Or if Sleipnir comes from Odin Primal.

Farm or buy. That's hardly a reason to complain about something or cancel a sub for.

We just don't know enough yet and I'm not the type to judge before I know what's going on.

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Originally Posted by Cynric

Vanity gear means Vanity gear not the current baseline of gear. There was also a comment you made about Atma being in the shop? Nah man, that's also pay to win. I wanted to reply to you so bad but I ran out of daily posts.

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Yeah, it is, and I said it in jest. I come from the EVE online universe, where pay to win doesn't win you anything, if ever if you pay to win you lose even harder.

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Originally Posted by tocsin

Yeah, it is, and I said it in jest. I come from the EVE online universe, where pay to win doesn't win you anything, if ever if you pay to win you lose even harder.

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Sorry man I can't tell with you. Just making sure you understand the difference. Because really the difference between them having stuff like a ghost costume from last year and key items for an important questline(basically your ultimate weapon) or baseline gear for current content are pretty big.

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Originally Posted by Cynric

This shop agree with it or not, I'm not making a decision yet, but if Yoshida was serious about what he said for no pay to win. It doesn't matter.

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You reckon he was serious about free company summons, personal housing costs, Goobbue mount exclusivity? As much as I like the man he has gone back on his word several times. The thing I've learnt is, that if the potential profits are enough, he will do whatever is required. If this means insta-50s because, let's face it the game begins at 50 (threw up in my mouth a little bit) then we will get insta-50s.

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Originally Posted by Cynric

It'll never happen where you see items that give any kind of advantage what so ever. That means, No atma, No i90, No i110, No free levels, No Experience boosters, No Instant 50's ,No relic weapons, No Nexus Light boosters, No Materia, No Alexandrite, No Tomestones, No Allied seals, No GC seals, None of that.

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If I were a mean person, I would save this quote.

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Originally Posted by RedAntares

...
In the end, every time they added something new in terms of vanity it was really hard to obtain in game and it wasn't available to anyone, it was just there for the people that already had huge amounts of gil or to the ones that grinded 24/7 to be able to get the materials they needed for just a VANITY item, I would understand if you would have to work hard for a new piece of gear with awesome stats or the next step in your relic weapon, but for vanity items? nah...

...

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Me grinding for stuff to get a rare vanity item is like a raider grinding coil to get a weapon or piece of armor. They are taking away game content and cash-gating it for people who are not solely raiders. I play this game for non exclusively progression based reasons. Like 85% of this game's content is vanity. Almost all gear is vanity. Housing anything is pretty much vanity. Chocobo color changes, a lot of gardening.... So much of this game is stuff that it isn't essential for you to have progress.

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Originally Posted by NozomiKei

They are taking away game content

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No they're not unless you can prove right this very second that Yoshida stated he will no longer add items and content to the game and only add items to the cash shop.

Go on, I'll wait.


*Hums*

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like a raider grinding coil to get a weapon or piece of armor

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Non - I grind coil for progression, you grind vanity for looks. How is that anywhere near the same level? You basically stated that vanity is game progression. o.O

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Almost all gear is vanity

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You're right..I go after High Allagan for vanity purposes...if you're playing the semantics card, everything can be used for the look you like, but let's be real, it's about the content behind it and most content that's purely for vanity are done MOSTLY for tomes, e.g HM dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

No they're not unless you can prove right this very second that Yoshida stated he will no longer add items and content to the game and only add items to the cash shop.

Go on, I'll wait.

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Just because they aren't outright stopping making vanity gear obtainable in game does not mean we aren't losing content to the cash shop.
I'm getting sick of repeating myself, but look at the Sleipnir mount, with the development of the Urth's Fount trial (which has been confirmed to be released to players at some point before the expansion) the development team will have sat down and discussed the whether or not to add the mount to the loot pool, similar to extreme mounts, or to sell it in the cash shop. Obviously, we now know they've chosen to sell it exclusively n the cash shop.
This is lost content, because it would have had an avenue for players to obtain it in game, but now it is essentially removed from the game unless you pay extra for it. The solution isn't to "just not buy it" either, because that doesn't fix the problem. That ALL players have permanently lost the opportunity to obtain this item in game.

I don't get why you people are so adamant in defending this when there are clear examples of potential content being denied an avenue for being obtained in game so the developers can generate additional revenue.

As long as it never becomes P2W....

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

No they're not unless you can prove right this very second that Yoshida stated he will no longer add items and content to the game and only add items to the cash shop.

Go on, I'll wait.

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Up until 2.4 all content except for Fantasia was available in game or as a bonus for a r/l product.

That's something like a ratio of 99,999:1

Wanna see which way that ratio goes after Cash Shop is introduced. Our subs are buying us less of the game. By your logic, they could have charged for each and every item released since V2 and that would have been fine, because our subs were still getting us the same stuff as they always had, right?

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Originally Posted by Cynric

It'll never happen where you see items that give any kind of advantage what so ever.

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While I'm thinking, this is wrong.

At level 1, fresh into the game. Who has higher stats, the person with just the weathered gear, or the person with weathered gear + a ring with defence+1 on it?

Yes, the advantage is negligable. Yes, it will be gone after the person levels up and gets enough gil to fill that ear slot, but until then, the player who bought items has an advantage.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

Non - I grind coil for progression, you grind vanity for looks. How is that anywhere near the same level? You basically stated that vanity is game progression. o.O

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For me and you coil grind is progression, for casuals it's vanity. For many people can be getting blue bird higher progress than getting BiS. Progressing is getting towards your goal, everyone has a different goal and cash shop might affect that for some people.

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Originally Posted by saeedaisspecial

Just because they aren't outright stopping making vanity gear obtainable in game does not mean we aren't losing content to the cash shop..

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So what you're saying is:

1. They'll stop creating Dungeons and throw them into the cash shop.
2. They'll stop making end-game raids and throw them into the cash shop.
3. They'll stop making storyline and quest battles and throw them into the cash shop.

Since..losing content means losing...content, not items. People in this very topic already said in-game items don't count as content because they argued that selling Fantasias are ok because "everyone got one for free and you could obtain it in-game." Why now are people suddenly forgetting the hundreds of others obtainable vanity items in game?

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I don't get why you people are so adamant in defending

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No one is "defending" it, those of you against it want everyone against it when it doesn't bother those who won't use the cash shop - Many of us have actually played more than FFXIV before, many of us know that it's MOSTLY Free To Play MMOs that has the Pay to Win element, because that is how they make their money. Selling vanity items doesn't take away from the game, none of you complained about having to buy a soundtrack for wind up bahamut/dalamud..that took away from the game using the same logic and guess what? The game is still running, just fine and you've been playing since then...just fine.

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ALL players have permanently lost the opportunity to obtain this item in game.

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-Wind up Dalamud
-Coeurl Mount (have to buy CE or digital upgrade)
-Onion Helm
-Hermes Sandals (could ONLY get this buy dual subbing FFXI and FFXIV back in 2010.)
-Asuran Gauntlets
-Moogle Earrings
-White Ravens
-Garlond Goggles
-Baby Behemoth
-Veteran Reward Items (NONE OF THESE can be obtained in game normally.)
-Any item that comes from buying things like a Plushie or Soundtrack for example.
-Wind Up Cait Sith.
-Moogle Cap...(Basically any item that requires a sizable purchase, you can't obtain these in game.)

This isn't something new, for over a year now there's been items none of us had the opportunity to obtain in-game and had to, in fact, either pay $70+ in sub fees or buy a physical item for a code.

just gonna state my 2 cents on this. I think this is really no different than buying things like the moogle plushie or the art book off the SE store. the reason why is because while some of you argue differently the only ones effected by the stuff in the cash shop are the ones who buy from it. they don't get any game progression. no gear with stats, only superficial things.

thus far they announced some past seasonal event items, minions and a mount. and the only thing besides those would be the
Phials of Fantasia<---some of you arguing against the cash shop think this is ok but the other things are not.
sorry but you can't argue against something like that. it has to be all or nothing.

I for one think so long as they don't go too far with it the cash shop would be a welcome thing.
what I'm against them adding is any gear with stats that that would prove beneficial at any time meaning I wouldn't want them to add the Lightning or Snow gear.
but I would be fine with them adding versions of that gear with no stats.

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Originally Posted by Wildsprite

Stuff

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There isn't any difference. None. People hear the word "cash shop" and freak out throwing around the doom and gloom phrases over and over again without any sort of thought.

It's nothing new. Other sub games that use a cash shop are still running fine and actually pulling more numbers than before, despite people in this thread clearly ignoring that fact.

Can someone actually link me to a source that states that the Odin mount will be exclusively in the cash shop? I'm trying to find one that can be trusted, but I can't find anything apart from forum and community based rumours.

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Originally Posted by Erepio

so it took 74 pages for the "white knight" to come up huh (as far as i know)..im kinda impressed

btw is it only white?? id prefer mine either black or red

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Sorry, other colors are only available in the cash shop.

here is an example of a cash shop in a Pay to Play Game
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/shop/
go on go have a look. only 1 item I saw in there that was questionable. see if you can find it. and do try to remember that WoW is still going strong.
as long as SE stays in the direction their shop is going and hopefully doesn't add that questionable item to theirs I'm good with it.

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Originally Posted by whoopeeragon

Can someone actually link me to a source that states that the Odin mount will be exclusively in the cash shop? I'm trying to find one that can be trusted, but I can't find anything apart from forum and community based rumours.

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that would be difficult since the cash shop was shown during the Letter from the Producer Live at Fan Festival. I do not recall them saying it or the minions were to be exclusive to the cash shop. though I seem to remember them saying there would be content exclusive to the cash shop so maybe that is where the rumour of that mount being exclusive came from.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

Since..losing content means losing...content, not items.

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Wait, so items aren't content? What? What the hell is content then? Do you go in to dungeons naked? Even then you have to have a weapon, which is an item.

Items are content. Content is being introduced that isn't available in game and isn't free (Dalamud, Hermes sandals, collectors' edition and veteran rewards were all free because they came with other things, you never paid for the item itself - yes it's a fine line, but it's there).

Fantasia and retainers are the only examples of in game things that were not obtainable in game that weren't freebies that came with another purchase. And yes, I was against these.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

none of you complained about having to buy a soundtrack for wind up bahamut/dalamud

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The minions were free with purchase of the soundtrack. You never purchased the minions. When it shows up on your receipt the item details are Version 1 OST, not Wind-up Bahamut.

Hmm, ill go ahead and say i agree with people suspicious that this vanity only cash shop will evolve into something people who do not dislike it now may change their tune later about.

Funny the comment about STO starting out this way and evolving as such, this is cold hard truth in that respect.

The bottom line is all the complaining in the world wont change what they do anyway.

Guess we will see huh.

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Originally Posted by Aegis

The minions were free with purchase of the soundtrack. You never purchased the minions. When it shows up on your receipt the item details are Version 1 OST, not Wind-up Bahamut.

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Except that people purchase these things in order to get exclusive items that aren't available ingame. There is no difference between buying a physical item that has a pet on it, or just buying the pet. Either way, you're paying for the pixels. Most of the people who purchased the soundtrack did so just for the pet. You can get the music for free if you know where to look.

Don't be naive, it's the same thing.

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Originally Posted by Asierid

Most of the people who purchased the soundtrack did so just for the pet.

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http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._protester.png

The in-game items were free with the purchase of the real-world item. That is indisputable. Your assertion needs a source.

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Originally Posted by Preypacer

Every response I see from you seems to entail you constructing strawmen ....

.... or an absurd misrepresentation of reality. Knock it off already. You have made not one good argument. Everything you say is so flawed, a child could see the problems in it.

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Truth.

/10char

I'm just starting to really REALLY wish that the cash shop really evolves to a dungeon unlocking and gear shop, too. Maybe that way, if their playstyle is affected, some people will take away their blindfolds and understand what we're talking about here.

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Originally Posted by Preypacer

As for buying the CD to get the wind-up dalamud. See, now I know you're just being dishonest. Those people bought and paid for *a CD*. You know? A physical disc with music on it, that ships in a nice case, with sleeve cover, pictures and other various stuff? They *bought* a CD. A physical item. They received the minion as a free bonus. If it didn't come with the bonus minion, it would still have cost money, and people would still have bought it.

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Don't be so naïve as to kid yourself into

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Originally Posted by Preypacer

an absurd misrepresentation of reality.

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that everyone who bought the CD did so for the CD. I guarantee you that more than 50% of those purchases were for the in game item. Time to open up those eyes precious.

Lets take a look at what is CURRENTLY in the cash shop.


Ahh so -- Old event items? If you did these old events, they are available for purchase from the calamity salvager.

3 minions - You don't even know if you can obtain these in game yet also.

1 mount - Again, you don't even know if you can obtain these in game

So what is all the crying really about? Where you THINK this will lead? Fact is, you don't know...

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Originally Posted by Yshnal

I'm just starting to really REALLY wish that the cash shop really evolves to a dungeon unlocking and gear shop, too. Maybe that way, if their playstyle is affected, some people will take away their blindfolds and understand what we're talking about here.

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And I cant wait for the moment when all you doomsday bringers realize that it isn't what you ASSumed it was going to be....

Man, something I've noticed while reading the last 88 pages of this thread is that those who are for the cash shop are generally more rude/immature, their posts almost always have very few likes, and they repeat the same arguments over and over even though they have been debunked.

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Originally Posted by SinisterIsBack

I guarantee you that more than 50% of those purchases were for the in game item.

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That's an awfully big ASSumption. I'm sure you'll be able to back up that statement with some hard evidence any time now.

I'm very conflicted about the whole Cash Shop thing. I'm well aware that those who don't like it don't have to take part in it. Yet at the same time, I don't believe that a Cash Shop has any place in a pay-to-play game.

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Originally Posted by NozomiKei

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Debunked how? There has been factual evidence in the previous pages where it shows games have retained and even increased their numbers since their "cash shops" had been implemented. All you get in response is rumors and personal opinions on the scale of doomsday naysayers. That's great and all, but if you're going to get all defensive about facts because that's how you feel then boohoo. Feelings don't make money. The whole rude/immature thing is quite amusing seeing how half of the defense does nothing but call your facts trash and attempt to be all hard and belittle everyone else without offering anything else to the conversation. Honestly, it gets annoying after the first few people.

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Originally Posted by Aegis

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You're asking me to cite a source based on personal motives. Right. Make a poll asking that if that makes you all hot and bothered. People don't just get the CD and go: "Oh boy, it comes with a free pet too! That's nice." Most of the decision to spend money on a physical CD, when you can just get the music elsewhere, comes from the ingme item that comes with it.

Besides. Who buys CD's nowadays anyway.

EDIT: Not that it matters. The shop is coming regardless, and the people who are all broken over it for whatever reason will quit. Nothing will change.

Love it, this is slowly turning into tumblr crying crazefest! Just watch out people to not insult one of the otherkins in here :3

I find it fascinating to see people get so mad over something like this. It makes me wonder if in real life they are so spoiled that they are desperately looking for something to complain about, even if it is something as small as this.

I'm planning on buying that cd and not for any minion attached to it. There are things called road trips.... and generally on those I'll pop in a cd instead of jacking up my phone's battery by keeping it plugged in for hours while pulling power from it to blast FF music.

And artbooks, really? There are plenty of people out there who appreciate cool art of things they are interested in, or just the thrill of owning something from the thing they're a fan of. I also plan to buy the artbooks. I laid down a good bundle of money for Amano's three piece artbooks The Sky and guess what? I didn't get any sort of minion with it.

Sorry if I'm getting snippy or confusing, it's 5am and I'm heading off to bed now. @_@

Btw, I may go over to Hyperion someday; there seems to be a lot of really chill players there! ^_^

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Originally Posted by Vili

As long as it never becomes P2W....

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I love this post.

I imagine a depressed Eeyore from Winny the Pooh saying "Well, we've stepped into the fire that's for sure, but as long as we don't burst into flames..."

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I think sadly the amount of people defending the cash shop is a sign of the times, we have hordes on both sides but the fact that we have so many people white knighting SE's decisions to cut content and charge for virtual items in a game we're already funding with our subscription fees shows just how successful said shop will be.

In the end SE is a company and will do what they can get away with, and from the positive and adamant defense made by some of the sheep in this thread it's clear that the cash shop will be a huge success. The audacity SE has to pull these sort of greedy actions after me and many other players have stuck with them through both the beginning of XI and XIV 1.0 launch shows their integrity and respect for their consumer is outweighed by their greed for more and more.

We'll have to see how they spin it but I'm fearful for the future of content both in game and gated behind additional fees in the cash shop.

Yes. How dare they offer outdated content items to everyone for a fair and reasonable price. I cannot be the only one to show off my pumpkin head and brag about it now.

It's not like we get free paint and whatnot because of mistakes, we would hate that.

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Originally Posted by Asierid

Yes. How dare they offer outdated content items to everyone.

It's not like we get free paint and whatnot because of mistakes, we would hate that.

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"Free"? What are you smoking? But I get the sentiment behind the support of a cash shop.

You see, there is a level of satisfaction--in choosing our purchases, i.e. choosing something to buy in a cash shop/mall shop--that cannot be attained otherwise. This is my opinion of course, but I think it is one of the many reasons why players would welcome a cash shop.