DRK Consolidated Feedback Thread

Oh I assure you, I have lost the "high expectations" thing with them long ago. But it is something that I notice they do (the to be continued ambiguity) But with all the things DRK can have an increased usability, we have our work cut out for us in terms of spitballin'.

I only personally hope they don't go back to "homogenizing" tanks and DRK gets a Raid mitigation skill change instead of a raid buff or personal DPS increase. Because their PTSD from WAR on early 2.0 is showing... bad.

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Originally Posted by SoulSkyheart

Instead, we should discuss, predict, speculate, and make ourselves ready for what’s to come. I say keep expectations low as that has always helped reduce stress or sadness on something you really want to happen and when it does, just is a great big disappointment. Let’s try and lift everyone’s spirits, not bring em down.

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Make ourselves ready for vague non-info? Speculation so we can quote our old posts about who was 'right'? There is nothing helpful or useful in doing that. This is just bad communication from SE. Instead of just saying from day 1 "Job adjustments will be announced in the patch notes" or alternatively, actually telling us what they are, they routinely flop around in this nomans land of vagueness. They want feedback in a feedback forum, then they also need to know when they are doing a bad job of communicating with the playerbase. I find airing those concerns far more useful than speculating on a buncha vague information which does no one any good.

It just encourages players to create their own expectations from a void only to be disappointed with the reality. How many posts popped up already about "I think/hope the vague changes really mean THIS!" You speak of lowering expectations but information voids just create speculation and false expectations, low or high.

I can see you were really looking forward to know what was coming which is why you keep bringing up points as to why and how things should be communicated to us.

I for one only see live letters as sneak peaks, not the devs sitting down, spoon feeding us everything they’ve been doing and what all of us will be doing in a week or 2 from release of content. This is also another expectation you gotta get rid of. If we wanna know the full details, we gotta wait for patch notes, (patch notes memes are coming) that’s how a lot of MMOs work.

Everyone loves their favorite mmo and wants to engage in it as much as possible, but unless you work for SE, you don’t have much power to know more without waiting.

I don't think its about expecting our direct opinions to be heard, but its clear they do pay attention to the things we talk about to a degree. The issue is that on some classes, the only things we get are either silence or the vague statements.

I don't want them to tell me every time that "something is happening, plz look forward to it". I know these are sneak peeks ( I personally saw them like that from the start) but even then "DRK is getting more usability" is not a sneak peek, its an ambiguous statement akin to "You guys are getting something on next patch"; It certainly doesn't help when in DRKs case, it's a job that has been asking for a review since basically the launch of SB.

SE are the ones who SET the expectation. LL XL they said "Were going to adjust warrior and Blm. We don't have time to go over the changes now, but we will talk about them next live letter in January".

Well its January. I expected them to go over the adjustments because SE said they would. I didn't come up with some pie in the sky expectation. SE told us they would tell us the details, then when their self appointed deadline came, they didn't.

That's not my failure in setting unrealistic expectations. That's SE's failure for setting that expectation and then failing to deliver. Expecting SE to do what they explicitly tell the playerbase they will do is not setting the bar to high.

How is this any different to when 4.1 came around when during 4.0, they applied band aid fixes to DRK. 4.1 came in and people expected “tank changes”. Meanwhile DRK was not touched, War got a new SiO and gauge was no longer clunky. PLD got a nerf to Holy Spirit.
Expectation of tank changes were out the window. You said they set the bar in December about telling us the upcoming changes for classes and guess what? It happened again?!
Shocking!

It’s not SE setting the bar alone, because they failed to deliver deliver once, you just chose to remain high on that bar when they clearly struck it down many times in the past. Blaming them for following the same trap you fell for before is just likefalling for a trap set out by a hunter for many times.

Everyone wants to see changes but playing the blame game isn’t that he even right way to go about it.

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Originally Posted by SoulSkyheart

How is this any different to when 4.1 came around when during 4.0, they applied band aid fixes to DRK. 4.1 came in and people expected “tank changes”. Meanwhile DRK was not touched, War got a new SiO and gauge was no longer clunky. PLD got a nerf to Holy Spirit.
Expectation of tank changes were out the window. You said they set the bar in December about telling us the upcoming changes for classes and guess what? It happened again?!
Shocking!

It’s not SE setting the bar alone, because they failed to deliver deliver once, you just chose to remain high on that bar when they clearly struck it down many times in the past. Blaming them for following the same trap you fell for before is just likefalling for a trap set out by a hunter for many times.

Everyone wants to see changes but playing the blame game isn’t that he even right way to go about it.

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I'm not talking about the quality of changes. 4.0 to 4.1, or their method of balancing jobs. THeres hundreds on threads on that. My issue has everything to do with publicly announcing a future, in depth, discussion about a topic at a later date, then never having that discussion. I'm not 'expecting' some massive tank overhaul that will set the world right. I'm expecting for SE to simply do what they announced last year. Talk about the details of the changes in the next live letter in Jan. The balance debates will go on forever because its the internet. 2 completely separate things.

If someone says they will do X thing at Y time and they don't do it, that is not my failing in any way shape or form. SE missing their own deadlines yet continuing to give them is a failure of planning and communication on their part. I didn't hold a gun to SE's head and tell them to make an announcement about tanks. They didn't need to 'announce' any changes, yet they did and with a self imposed followup that they didn't stick to. Stop trying to blame player's expectations for SE missing their self imposed schedules and targets. Just because SE has flaked out on similar items in the past doesn't somehow make it OK to continue to do so yet again.

You missed my point. I asked how it was any different to how SE promised to deliver what they said they will.

They promised tank changes and tank changes did happen, but it didn’t happen to the tank everyone wanted it to happen to. They did deliver, they just did not deliver what you or most of everyone on the forums has been crying for the past 6 months. They never said they were touching dark Knight. They did say tank changes, it’s just what people were looking forward to.

Same thing happened on December, they said they will talk about “job adjustments” and they did. They talked about BLM and MCH and Warrior and Monk. They did what they said they were going to do! But again! We didn’t get what we wanted to hear but at least we got an acknowledgment! Vague or not, we are getting changes that was never mentioned in live letter part 1.
We’re lucky it DRK was mentioned as to how everyone fell to despair in December’s LL where it was never mentioned.

Firstly, good for you DRKs, hopefully something good comes out of this.

Secondly - if this is another Holy Spirit nerf... regardless of opinions on PLD DPS, I have to say that watching our shiny new ability slowly haemorrhage potency over the patches is quite exasperating.

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Originally Posted by Aana

Make ourselves ready for vague non-info? Speculation so we can quote our old adjustments will be announced in the patch notes" or alternatively, actually telling us what they are, they routinely flop around in this nomans land of vagueness. They want feedback in a feedback forum, then they also need to know when they are doing a bad job of communicating with the playerbase. I find airing those concerns far more useful than speculating on a buncha vague information which does no one any good.

It just encourages players to create their own expectations from a void only to be disappointed with the reality. How many posts popped up already about "I think/hope the vague changes really mean THIS!" You speak of lowering expectations but information voids just create speculation and false expectations, low or high.posts about who was 'right'? There is nothing helpful or useful in doing that. This is just bad communication from SE. Instead of just saying from day 1 "Job

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I agree...

Though I also partially agree with the person you were responding too as well, there's a time and place for both forms of thought.

I am trying to understand the logic behind nerfing Dark Passenger's damage into oblivion while giving it an absurd MP cost. You don't nerf an ability down to 1 damage(haha) and give it Dark Arts-like MP cost.

In one of the interviews apparently Yoshi P states that he does not understand why people are playing Warrior more than Dark Knight... I wonder if the dev team even looks at the tank forums in JP or NA?

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Originally Posted by Deathshiro

In one of the interviews apparently Yoshi P states that he does not understand why people are playing Warrior more than Dark Knight... I wonder if the dev team even looks at the tank forums in JP or NA?

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Would you mind sharing your source?

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Originally Posted by Deathshiro

In one of the interviews apparently Yoshi P states that he does not understand why people are playing Warrior more than Dark Knight... I wonder if the dev team even looks at the tank forums in JP or NA?

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If I recall correctly, that's actually him correcting some interviewer saying PLD and DRK are more common than WAR and then Yoshi going "lol nah there's more Warriors". He said he's surprised, not he doesn't understand (don't know why he'd be surprised since WAR is the better tank and even casual players go towards meta without understanding why something's meta, but eh).

I think this is what he's referring to, @Chrono_Rising:

https://www.bluegartr.com/threads/13...01#post7010901

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Originally Posted by Chrono_Rising

Would you mind sharing your source?

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https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...lated/dt8leby/

https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...6a00adb9181007
Dark Knight
Action Adjustment
Delirium: Recast time has been reduced from 120 to 80.
The Blackest Night: Effect duration has been increased from 5 to 7 seconds.

Thats they answer t our problems.

Please pay your respects to DRK. May they rest in peace.


F

- Dark Passenger still completely worthless
- Minimal if any DPS increase despite Delirium's shorter CD
- No additional party utility or CDs

Goodnight sweet price

These changes, or the lack-thereof, show us that they simply can't be bothered to listen.

If they're waiting for 5.0 to fix it like they did with Paladin in 3.X to 4.0, then I feel they need to be reminded of one of the keypoints they made when they relaunched the game:

The mindset that the solution to every problem could be patched in a future update.

I argue that this doesn't just apply to bug-fixes, it applies fixing things—everything, including jobs—in a timely manner and actually bothering to listen to your players when we tell you something isn't right.

I actually feel insulted.

Do they really think Delirium adds that much damage as so much to close the damage gap?

Fuck me... i am done with FF14.

Edit: I will reserve judgement, actually.

Annnd done, boycotting tanking until the devs remember that DRK exists.

Edit: Might also take to vote kicking every warrior i see, simply out of spite.

Goodbye Dark Knight my old friend
I doubt I'll play you again

gg. Balance team still doesnt have a clue.

So, I hope you DRKs brought lube because y'all got it.

God, these changes are... Well, I mean, fine, but it's not nearly enough. I guess they figured that "Hey, they cleared Ultimate, so, you know, it's not nearly as bad as everyone makes it out to be. Let's give them something and hope they shut up."

Ugh, I guess we're not getting a new tank in 5.0 because they need to devote their tank resources to fixing DRK (if they even bother)

RIP Dark Knight, my lovely ex-main...

I just lol'd when I read the DRK changes. It seems like they don't know what to do with it.

I mean the delirium change is 100% a DPS gain, how significant of a gain remains to be seen but it's literally more DPS.

The TBN change means you're more incentivized to use it now, in ALL content, since it will be easier to pop so it's not a DPS loss now. TBN can be used to cover the gaps in between cooldown usage AND supplement your cooldowns too when needed. 7 seconds is plenty of time for it to pop even when being hit by wet noodle auto attacks.

Bear in mind that PLD DPS was lowered, and WAR changes are kinda up in the air while people math things out. Right now, DRK is the only tank that is 100% being buffed no questions asked.

I wish they had given Dark Passenger and Sole Survivor a purpose against bosses, and some kind of party utility for the job.

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Originally Posted by Rosalynd

Annnd done, boycotting tanking until the devs remember that DRK exists.

Edit: Might also take to vote kicking every warrior i see, simply out of spite.

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You do realize WAR got more nerfed to where them constantly landing Direct Critical Hits is not going to to help WARs in DPS, right...? PLD abilities were fine the way they were with exception of Shield Bash which is better as an oGCD cooldown attack... Bereserk was fine but Inner Release changes because of Berserk nerf is a really big nerf...

Dark Changes are good, there need to be more of them. Delirium is not enough of a change on its own.

Dark passenger needs higher potency and less mana to be useful
raise bloodspiller so TBN is really dps neutral.
Lower dark arts costs by 400 mana to 2000 per cast

Then dark knight will be above/near paladin. Anything less and dark is dead for another raid.

I'm very surprised that warrior has seen so many heavy handed adjustments, I think this is the third or fourth overhual of skills in one expansion. Mean while Darks are still trying to get dark passenger to be worth while on a single target for the past 7 months.

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Originally Posted by Praesul

I mean the delirium change is 100% a DPS gain, how significant of a gain remains to be seen but it's literally more DPS.

The TBN change means you're more incentivized to use it now, in ALL content, since it will be easier to pop so it's not a DPS loss now. TBN can be used to cover the gaps in between cooldown usage AND supplement your cooldowns too when needed. 7 seconds is plenty of time for it to pop even when being hit by wet noodle auto attacks.

Bear in mind that PLD DPS was lowered, and WAR changes are kinda up in the air while people math things out. Right now, DRK is the only tank that is 100% being buffed no questions asked.

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Delirium and TBN still sucks no matter how you look at it... adjusting recast and duration only partially fixes what is wrong with them because TBN is still going to cost a huge chunk of MP and Delirium is still going to cost blood gauge...

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Originally Posted by DRKoftheAzure

Delirium and TBN still sucks no matter how you look at it... adjusting recast and duration only partially fixes what is wrong with them because TBN is still going to cost a huge chunk of MP and Delirium is still going to cost blood gauge...

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TBN is amazing, probably the best shield in the game. It pays for itself if it breaks because you get a bloodspiller out of it. You're trading one dark arts for a big shield + bloodspiller.

Also it doesn't matter if Delirium costs blood, what? Spending blood on Delirium over Bloodspiller is already a dps gain.

Well it was nice to get excited for DRK, even though I should have known better.

It's a start but we've got a long ways to go. Perseverance bros, lets make DRK great again.

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Originally Posted by Praesul

TBN is amazing, probably the best shield in the game. It pays for itself if it breaks because you get a bloodspiller out of it. You're trading one dark arts for a big shield + bloodspiller.

Also it doesn't matter if Delirium costs blood, what? Spending blood on Delirium over Bloodspiller is already a dps gain.

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Delirium is such a small gain there is really no reason for it to cost 50 Blood. Give us the 2400 mana with no cost and we are still looking at a skill which gives 1/3rd of the return of requiscat or inner release.

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Originally Posted by Praesul

TBN is amazing, probably the best shield in the game. It pays for itself if it breaks because you get a bloodspiller out of it. You're trading one dark arts for a big shield + bloodspiller.

Also it doesn't matter if Delirium costs blood, what? Spending blood on Delirium over Bloodspiller is already a dps gain.

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Divine veil <cough>
Intervention <cough cough>
Cover <cough cough cough>

0 MP cost all of that on one class <cough cough cough cough>

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

Divine veil <cough>
Intervention <cough cough>
Cover <cough cough cough>

0 MP cost <cough cough cough cough>

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Oh yeah I forgot you could use divine veil and cover every 15 seconds, I also wasn't aware intervention was usable on self.

One is a raid defense buff that does not apply to the user, the other is a strictly worse TBN, and the last one is not a shield.

Not to say that those abilities aren't good because they are but if you're going to compare at least compare apples to apples.

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Originally Posted by Chrono_Rising

Delirium is such a small gain there is really no reason for it to cost 50 Blood. Give us the 2400 mana with no cost and we are still looking at a skill which gives 1/3rd of the return of requiscat or inner release.

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That's because PLD and WAR potencies are worse across the board, so their buffs are stronger. You can't directly compare them. Delirium will be a relatively smaller gain because our base damage is already high (for a tank).

At this point, it's probably wiser to not ask for any more buffs.