The Monk Temple

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Originally Posted by Zakard

ho that make sence....il make sure to let the dot drop if i buffed them.well thx for that info

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You should always be letting your dot drop anyway. If you clip it early, you wasted some of it's damage. By wasting a tick or two of Demolish, you're making it worse than Snap Punch.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

You should always be letting your dot drop anyway. If you clip it early, you wasted some of it's damage. By wasting a tick or two of Demolish, you're making it worse than Snap Punch.

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ok thx for that advice

Is there an established MNK rotation yet for max ST dps?

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Originally Posted by Gwendolen

If you previously applied your DoTs under the effects of any buffs(BFB, IR, etc), then the previous ones will be considered more powerful than a fresh application, so you cant override them. This is true for all DoTS on any class.

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So this is why my Demolish "misses" like 3/10 times? Just came in to ask this, thought it was weird with my ACC being 470+. Always believed it was better to clip the Demolish DoT when it was around 2-3 sec left rather than go through another whole rotation, guess not... Total revelation, really forces me to re-think my rotations.

You can use ID after twin snakes up to 2 times before you reapply demolish so there is no need to do a full new rotation before applying demolish again.

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Originally Posted by Nubian

So this is why my Demolish "misses" like 3/10 times? Just came in to ask this, thought it was weird with my ACC being 470+. Always believed it was better to clip the Demolish DoT when it was around 2-3 sec left rather than go through another whole rotation, guess not... Total revelation, really forces me to re-think my rotations.

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You should never really clip. Every tick you take off, you just made demolish a weaker skill than it is. If you use a standard rotation (without ID), just refresh demolish and fracture every 3rd cycle. Unless you're under a 2s GCD (very unlikely), then it should never miss.

EDIT: Honestly though, I hardly ever find myself with 2-3 seconds left on demolish and a whole rotation to go, just cause of how our rotation is timed.

Not to contradict myself, but because the dots are on the server timer it may be worth clipping if it's 2-3s. A second more, and it'll probably not be. If the dot is buffed by anything, don't bother since it won't refresh.

These kind of adaptations should be on the fly rather than rotational, since our rotation fits demolish in perfectly.

Hey quick question for my sim, do monks have any procs?

Thanks!

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Originally Posted by pandabearcat

Hey quick question for my sim, do monks have any procs?

Thanks!

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Nope!

/10char

Ok question I was looking for CoB drops for MNK and found this http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ut-Loot-Tables are these drops and areas where they drop correct?

So if these loot drops are correct then this is where gear drops.

Turn1 Allagan Trousers of Striking Allagan Ring of Striking Allagan Bracelets of Striking
Turn2 Allagan Gauntlets of Striking Allgan Earrings of Striking
Turn3 nothing
Turn4 Allagan Visor of Striking Allagan Sollerets of Striking Allagan Belt of Striking Allagan Choker of Striking
Turn5 Safe to say Allagan Cuirass of Striking drops here along with Allagan H2H.

anyone know what kind of buff monk will get in 2.1?

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Originally Posted by oceanlord

anyone know what kind of buff monk will get in 2.1?

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Most likely nothing. They said it's the fight mechanics that need to be tweaked to be easier on melee, so I imagine a few of the PBAoE attacks will occur less frequently or be less deadly.

wich offencive stats to priorise at end-game to maximize dps?offcourse str is the first but after is it better to stack lot of crit/det/skill speed?i heard with really hight skill speed it make dps lot higther but bad side is tp are drained lot faster.what about crit?i feel like higth crit will be a pretty good dps increase but i dont know how much each point give and it seem pretty low.....for determination im not sure....bonus seem quite low also...

so between skill speed/crit or det,wich of this stats should we focus more in end game that give the most dps in the end?

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Originally Posted by Zakard

wich offencive stats to priorise at end-game to maximize dps?offcourse str is the first but after is it better to stack lot of crit/det/skill speed?i heard with really hight skill speed it make dps lot higther but bad side is tp are drained lot faster.what about crit?i feel like higth crit will be a pretty good dps increase but i dont know how much each point give and it seem pretty low.....for determination im not sure....bonus seem quite low also...

so between skill speed/crit or det,wich of this stats should we focus more in end game that give the most dps in the end?

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I'm not sure why there exists a school of MNKs that swear by the Skill Speed stat (up until 491 or some such value)... perhaps it's blindly following the Mr. Happy video, perhaps something else, but it's an utter waste for any battle that can be considered challenging (has mechanics). Typically, one is gearing up for such fights, so...

Since you mention endgame, I will assume you plan on taking your MNK into Coil. If so, you will need 470 accuracy to reliably hit Turn 1 boss, and ~480 to reliably hit Turn 5 boss. So:

Accuracy (to 470/480) > Crit >= Determination >>> Skill Speed.

As it stands, with current itemization, getting enough Skill Speed to make any sort of difference makes you miss out on a lot of crit/det, which provide a large buff to DPS. The magic number for Skill Speed people seem to be pursuing is the value at which MNK GCD with GL3 drops to 2.0s flat, which apparently allows one to reliably use True Strike instead of Twin Snakes every other rotation.

Look at the details of True Strike and Twin Snakes. Not. Worth. It.

skill speed is a broken stat atm

1- it give rly too low gdc reduction
2- you need to move out and in in the boss fight and this make skill speed useless anyway

Hey guys, just wanted some input as to what you all think is going to have a better impact as a MNK, gear wise. Here is the total stats of a 5 pieces melded set of Gryphonskin I made, compared to the end result stats of AF2 and Allagan.

Gryphonskin Gear (Melded)
Skill Speed: 99
Determination: 67
Critical Hit Rate: 90
Accuracy: 71
Strength: 76
Vitality: 86

Melee Armor Set:
Skill Speed: 60
Determination: 32
Critical Hit Rate: 36
Accuracy: 83
Strength: 112
Vitality: 126

Allagan Armor Set:
Skill Speed: 45
Determination: 26
Critical Hit Rate: 119
Accuracy: 24
Strength: 112
Vitality: 126

Let me know what your thoughts and or questions and advice are ^^

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Originally Posted by Kodaijin

Hey guys, just wanted some input as to what you all think is going to have a better impact as a MNK, gear wise. Here is the total stats of a 5 pieces melded set of Gryphonskin I made, compared to the end result stats of AF2 and Allagan.

Gryphonskin Gear (Melded)
Skill Speed: 99
Determination: 67
Critical Hit Rate: 90
Accuracy: 71
Strength: 76
Vitality: 86

Melee Armor Set:
Skill Speed: 60
Determination: 32
Critical Hit Rate: 36
Accuracy: 83
Strength: 112
Vitality: 126

Allagan Armor Set:
Skill Speed: 45
Determination: 26
Critical Hit Rate: 119
Accuracy: 24
Strength: 112
Vitality: 126

Let me know what your thoughts and or questions and advice are ^^

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gryph is great but it lack str/vit and cost is insane so imo,not worth a full set of it.you can use few part if your lacking some stats

af2 have hight str/vit/accuracy but lacking offence stat like crit

allagan have nice offencive stats but lacking accuracy

so best setup is allagan with few part of af2 to get some accuracy.start with AK while you farm for full dl,get your relic wep+1,extra myth for bis af2 and then farm coil for allagan

I've heard so many mixed opinions on stat weights for monks it isn't even funny.

So anyone got an ideal stats for MNK yet?

This^ Is there a BiS yet for MNK? I think a nice balance between SS and Crit would be the best way to go? DET is nice but should be lower down the pecking order?

BiS on paper based on secondary stats like det/ss/crit is not something I'm really concerning myself with. I just did some spreadsheet math based on what dropped on my first few coil runs (3 Maiming accessories) and went from there to make a gear plan. The main thing is balancing ACC. This is why I chose the Melee Circlet over Allagan Visor, as this puts me at 476 ACC (and then eat omlettes for acc+crit when needed). Also, it turned out that getting the "DRG" accessories was better in the long run for me, anyway, I think.

Like, Allagan Baghnaks are nice, but you will have to make up that accuracy loss somehow, which you can do with Melee pants or body, but chances are you're going to already have your Sphairai+1 long before you get to turn 5, much less clear it. Using Baghnaks+Melee Gaskins, for example, nets you similar accuracy and a lot more DET with a loss of SS, this is probably a worthwhile tradeoff but SS isn't *bad* for monk so the difference will be minimal. And I don't know about you, but if I'm going to drop 800+ myth on something after upgrading my Sphairai to +1 already, it's probably going to be for an alt job I don't already have several allagan pieces for that I'm serious about playing.

Ultimate BiS is something I might have another look at once my group can beat turn 5, but I'm being a little more realistic and incremental-conscious in my selection, so here's the gear set I'm shooting for (currently 7/12 on this set, missing pants, belt, ring, boots, body):
Sphairai +1
Melee Circlet
Allagan Cuirass of Striking
Allagan Gauntlets of Striking
Allagan Tassets of Striking
Allagan Trousers of Striking
Allagan Sollerets of Striking
Allagan Choker of Maiming
Allagan Earrings of Maiming
Allagan Bracelets of Striking
Allagan Ring of Maiming
Allagan Ring of Striking

221 STR
176 VIT
135 ACC
163 Crit
98 SS
38 DET

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Originally Posted by KaosPrimeZero

This^ Is there a BiS yet for MNK? I think a nice balance between SS and Crit would be the best way to go? DET is nice but should be lower down the pecking order?

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SS easily sits at the bottom of the pecking order imo.

I have melee helm and sphirai +1. Gryphonskin chest/legs/boots/ring (fully melded with crit and some determination and a decent amount of skill speed), Allagan Earrings of Maiming (I guess this is the DRG earring but it'll do... is the Striking one better you think?), Darklight everything else, and now deciding on what to buy with tomes next. What do you think is the best upgrade and the one that can be more considered best in slot when considering damage and keeping accuracy up, Melee Chest or Melee Pants? Not sure which one to save for next....

actually i have the head and boots af2 and 2 ring/ chest/legs/arm/belt hypogryph and DL for the other stuff and i have : Accuracy 485/
Critical Hit Rate 512/Determination 243/SS 506 ....

i m planing to buy AF2 necklace to earn more crit . with that i can tell that it's useless to get more SS , because it's not even noticiable, i ve already tried with 520 SS (with the SS DL necklace ) , in ur burst rotation , with even more SS u cannot deal more hits , u are like capped by ur GL3 and cannot make more than 3 skills (free , like ID) + 3 skills(refresh DL3)....so yeah SS is broken and not that usefull for now . with SS actually , i just feel that the building time of GL3 is more smoother but just a bit .

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Originally Posted by Kodaijin

Hey guys, just wanted some input as to what you all think is going to have a better impact as a MNK, gear wise. Here is the total stats of a 5 pieces melded set of Gryphonskin I made, compared to the end result stats of AF2 and Allagan.

Gryphonskin Gear (Melded)
Skill Speed: 99
Determination: 67
Critical Hit Rate: 90
Accuracy: 71
Strength: 76
Vitality: 86

Melee Armor Set:
Skill Speed: 60
Determination: 32
Critical Hit Rate: 36
Accuracy: 83
Strength: 112
Vitality: 126

Allagan Armor Set:
Skill Speed: 45
Determination: 26
Critical Hit Rate: 119
Accuracy: 24
Strength: 112
Vitality: 126

Let me know what your thoughts and or questions and advice are ^^

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Get your Skill Speed to 492-499 and then worry about Crit Rate. You can also use HQ Eft Steak to achieve this. Also, the best build is not by having the full set but by mixing and matching.

Allagan Visor
Melee Cyclas
Hero's Belt
Melee Hands or Allagan Gauntlets of Striking (only when you hit 492~499+ Skill Speed without the melee gloves)
Allagan Trousers
Temple Boots OR Allagan Boots (exact same stats)

Striking Choker
Striking Earring
Striking Bracelets
Striking Ring
Hero's Ring

Hope this helps on your quest to the top of the DPS chain....

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Originally Posted by Sibe

skill speed is a broken stat atm

1- it give rly too low gdc reduction
2- you need to move out and in in the boss fight and this make skill speed useless anyway

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WRONG....you have to learn how to time it perfectly. You have 12 seconds which is more than enough time.

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Originally Posted by Arkista

So anyone got an ideal stats for MNK yet?

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SKILL SPEED, then CRIT RATE and then DET.....in that order. Accuracy will be just fine as the gear you choose will have it already. I would post the BiS for SPEED but XIVDB is acting up right now.

this will suffice for now though.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B96YhajU7X4

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Originally Posted by Perthaneus-Magnum

SKILL SPEED, then CRIT RATE and then DET.....in that order. Accuracy will be just fine as the gear you choose will have it already. I would post the BiS for SPEED but XIVDB is acting up right now.

this will suffice for now though.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B96YhajU7X4

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Mind if I ask why you're pushing SS when it's the lowest in terms of returns per point? Crit/Det will give far more returns as far as DPS than SS would.

what are the caps for stats? I dont want to create a thread about it

figured I just ask here

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Originally Posted by Risbyn

Mind if I ask why you're pushing SS when it's the lowest in terms of returns per point? Crit/Det will give far more returns as far as DPS than SS would.

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I've always thought about this, but at the same time, a lot of the gear simply has more of it. So even if SS was worse than say, crit, you get almost double the amount of SS vs crit on some pieces of gear. Quantity over quality and all that. I'm by no means a theorycrafter, I just thought it was something to think about :)

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Originally Posted by Teeko

I've always thought about this, but at the same time, a lot of the gear simply has more of it. So even if SS was worse than say, crit, you get almost double the amount of SS vs crit on some pieces of gear. Quantity over quality and all that. I'm by no means a theorycrafter, I just thought it was something to think about :)

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That's actually because itemization is different piece-for-piece. The actual BiS set for monks involves a whopping +32 to skillspeed only because the boots and earrings can't avoid it. The only stat that has a higher cost is Determination.

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Originally Posted by Perthaneus-Magnum

SKILL SPEED, then CRIT RATE and then DET.....in that order. Accuracy will be just fine as the gear you choose will have it already. I would post the BiS for SPEED but XIVDB is acting up right now.

this will suffice for now though.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B96YhajU7X4

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Why ppl throw that vid around like its the gospel ill never know. I see more dps as crit main stat and SS last

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Originally Posted by hyachona

Why ppl throw that vid around like its the gospel ill never know. I see more dps as crit main stat and SS last

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People has just no idea, and keeps quoting others' "theorycrafting" thinking they got the optimal set-up, and it's actually funny when there's THREE strong groups of those at the moment:

1. Go determination!
2. Go critical chance!
3. Go attack speed up to 491, then join 1) or 2)!

If people took more time to think for five minutes and test 2 basic things, they wouldn't need to be spamming forums with wrong or misleading theories, "plz which is the cap for X for mnk", or waiting for others to do math.

The best sect however is this never-ending group of flank-onry evangelists :)

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Originally Posted by Powercow

That's actually because itemization is different piece-for-piece. The actual BiS set for monks involves a whopping +32 to skillspeed only because the boots and earrings can't avoid it. The only stat that has a higher cost is Determination.

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I suppose. Honestly my poor little brain is being fried with all of these "BIS" sets that I am having a hard time keeping up XD Naturally I was simply going to go the more realistic approach of "use what I can get" but I don't want to take a jewelry piece from a dragoon if it won't be on my BIS list.

I am also trying to find something that is a "BIS" pre-turn 5 list :)

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Originally Posted by Teeko

I am also trying to find something that is a "BIS" pre-turn 5 list :)

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http://en.xivdb.com/?wardrobe/3083/monk-bis-pre5

Something like this. For what it's worth, the jewelry is the same for monks and dragoons, with the possible exception of the earring (the earring is swapping 16 crit for 16 accuracy.) Feel free to swap the Maiming earring and Allagan Visor of Striking for the pieces listed here, or use the Hero's necklace.

Thank you very much, I really appreciate it!

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Originally Posted by Perthaneus-Magnum

SKILL SPEED, then CRIT RATE and then DET.....in that order. Accuracy will be just fine as the gear you choose will have it already. I would post the BiS for SPEED but XIVDB is acting up right now.

this will suffice for now though.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B96YhajU7X4

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lol... oh look it's that XIV-APP parse saying 300+ DPS. I pulled 300+ DPS on XIVAPP on the AK boss back when my only i90 gear was Sphairai +1. Didn't use Fracture either, for that matter. Never once focused my build on SS.

XIVAPP parses have been incredibly inaccurate, especially given the usage of DoT skills. Looking at the actual numbers you're putting out and their frequency, I can honestly say focusing on crit/det will yield better results. In fact, they actually do.

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Originally Posted by Risbyn

Mind if I ask why you're pushing SS when it's the lowest in terms of returns per point? Crit/Det will give far more returns as far as DPS than SS would.

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It's not the slowest when your goal is to add more skills to your rotation. By adding skill speed to 497 lets say, that's 1.99 sec at GL3 which is 6 moves including the main 3 that you can use SAFELY before having to restack GL. Prior to that, most of your rotations is 4-5 skills. The whole purpose is to hit faster than anyone else and crit for the most because we are using the most skills than anyone else in the fight.

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Originally Posted by Perthaneus-Magnum

It's not the slowest when your goal is to add more skills to your rotation. By adding skill speed to 497 lets say, that's 1.99 sec at GL3 which is 6 moves including the main 3 that you can use SAFELY before having to restack GL. Prior to that, most of your rotations is 4-5 skills. The whole purpose is to hit faster than anyone else and crit for the most because we are using the most skills than anyone else in the fight.

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And what skills pray tell would you be adding to the basic 3-skill rotation? Filling it up with Impulse Drives when not ToD/Fracture?

I suppose that's a decent way to turn MNK into an inefficient burst dps machine, or rather attempt to.

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Originally Posted by Teeko

I am also trying to find something that is a "BIS" pre-turn 5 list :)

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The set Powercow linked is an effective pre-t5 set, but if you are trying to save on myth you could stop with the Circlet and keep wearing DL/Gryphon until allagan body. In my case I have an HQ gryphonskin tunic I made and melded with 4 IVs in it so it has 20STR/22VIT/27ACC/27Crit/27SS. I'm probably not going to spend myth on Melee Cyclas, working on the assumption that me having it won't be the deciding factor for my group beating t5 or not, and also for the fact that I'd be overshooting acc by wearing it both in the short term and also in the long term. However, the Circlet is a good buy either way I slice it. Also, don't get hung up on a BiS gear set when it comes to the accessories being Striking or Maiming--especially if you're the only mDPS in the group, take what you can get and adjust as you go, keeping in mind that acc is your most important stat until capped.

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Originally Posted by Aeoliana

Critical Hit Rate is weighted at 1 and Skill Speed at .5

Once there is a better formula for how Skill Speed reduces GCD that may change, but not by enough to change the overall result

(I was told 100ss for .1gcd and 100 crit for 8% crit)

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I did some calculations based on this quote. I sure that SS formula is right, not sure about the crit.


I would need 45 more SS to get to 497. What would that get me? An extra GCD (that would be the ultimate goal).
How often? Every 50 attacks, I get one extra.
That's 2 every 100 attacks.

For the same amount of crit, you'll get 3.76.
Every 100 attacks, that means you crit 3 more times (and change, with that 0.76).

Crits don't do double damage. I'm not actually sure what they do. 1.5x maybe?
If it's 1.5, SS would seem to give better returns, because that means every 2 crits is equal to gaining another attack.
You would gain 3 crits, means you gained an attack and a half every 100 attacks as opposed to 2.
The 0.76 is close to 4, but the returns would only be equal at 4.

NOTE: This is an imperfect comparison. And pretty much just napkin math.
Factors:
- Not all attacks do the same damage. If you crit on higher damaging attacks, the returns are better but if you crit on lower ones it's worse than this model.
- Internal Release. I'm not good enough to include this.
- Bootshine should always crit.
EDIT: As Powercow said
- SS does nothing for our auto-attacks, dots or non-GCD skills. This is a lot of our damage.

There are probably more things, but I think this is worth thinking about.